Vanish

First, thanks to everyone. I am still amazed that situations out there seem so familiar.

OK. Gonna try this detachment with love. Seems selfish in a major way. I liked comment someone made that when their buttons were pushed, at least they knew what to "detach" from. So, I as I sit here thinking what to eliminate as triggers, I wonder where to end the list. Am i to eliminate every trigger? Impossible. AW's ability to justify is too great. Should I never have a drink with dinner at restaurant. Not even a glass of wine. Should I leave friend get-togethers early. Or not even go? Never share a beer with a buddy? Should I tell daughter to bug off. That her issues set my wife off? The list could go on forever.

I decided detachment was to manage (control seems to negative) what I could.

AW is coming off episode and says she hates herself. I said I loved her and she should not define herself by this and past episodes. She should define herself by what her actions in response to this episode are. I did not get into the "oh what to do, what to do" hand-wringing with her as in the past. She tried to pick argument with me to re-direct attention to some unrelated issues. I refused to be drawn into it. I went to the garage. But I was ticked off.

I decided the first thing is to prevent my guilt in the future. I bought a safe. All guns locked up. Pills and knives are still available, but a gun is the last thing she threatened to use and she has friends who did themselves in with guns giving scenario validity. My guilt will be assuaged in that I did not leave easy access to the my weapons.

Next will be a list of what she has done in past to reel me in and a prepared, thought-out response to the situation. So, I don't just react.

Wish me luck. I am rationalizing to avoid feeling selfish.

Rainbowsend

Why does detatchment seem and why are you feeling selfish?

ToughChoices

Good luck!!! I'm sending good thoughts your way!

But I have to ask..... what's so wrong about being a little selfish, here, Vanish?

Your SELF is important, too. Life is about more than just your wife's problem, more than just her suicidal threats and days-long binges, sad as they are.

How can you take care of Mr.Vanish? How can you treat him right today? What pleases your heart and calms your mind? Can you do something just for you, just because you like it?

You are obviously a person of deep feeling and commitment. When I started channeling some of the love that I had been throwing away on a numbed-out, depressed, uninterested, addicted person toward my own precious self, the universe rained down blessings on me.

Much love to you. Take care!
-TC

prodigal

I've been married to two A's. I have learned the hard way that one must expect the unexpected. Although there are certain "scripts" the A's in my life repeated, they still remained adept (even when brain-fried) at hitting me out of left field with zingers.

I frequently found that no response or reaction whatsoever was the best response. I left the room. If followed, and the quacking continued, I left the house.

Detachment isn't about being selfish or self-serving. It's about caring for yourself. You have no control over the addict's mess. But you can acquire the tools to face your own challenges and issues. I don't know if you have tried Al-Anon and/or counseling, but both could prove most beneficial.

shotz

Vanish,

One of the sayings that really helped me was that the alcohlics are all about the ism's as in alcoholisim. The alcoholic is focused on I, Self and Me (ISM). Do not worry about being selfish you are not. Your first responsibilty is to you. They certainly don't even consider us when they make the decision to drink.

Godbless
Shotz

LaTeeDa

In my experience, the "detachment" part is the most important. The "with love" part doesn't always come right away as it takes time to learn to love yourself, which in turn makes it possible to love the alcoholic in non-enabling ways.

As far as what to do about each and every situation, let your comfort level guide you. You can't possibly anticipate every single scenario that might happen. If you are comfortable having a beer, then have one, knowing that your choices have little or no effect on what your wife chooses to do.

As far as managing/controlling what you can, you need to learn what is yours and what is hers. You can only control yours. She is in charge of hers. Alcoholics frequently attempt to pass off their stuff onto others. Just because she sets her issues at your feet, does not mean you have to pick them up. By the same reasoning, your issues are yours to deal with and are not her fault.

Lastly, it's easy to get overwhelmed and discouraged when you finally see all the changes that need to be made and you want to make them all at once. Remember that this situation has evolved into what it is over a long time and it won't change overnight. Take baby steps and don't forget to congratulate yourself when you do.

As they say, it's simple, but it's not easy.

L

justjo

Hi Vanish
You are not being selfish, maybe you are at your own threshold of tolerance. It is so difficult to watch the ones we love go downhill. Simply for me though, after years of trying to battle with them, or 'play this ridiculous nightmare' I'd had enough. Really, it all comes down to how long you will enable her addiction. I analysed it all too, what to do, how to do it, but the one thing that kept me ok, was not to join in the madness. Retreat from the game. Im a great example of "ok, here I come, I'll save you" and it was truelly crazy. She has to save herself, her own life!
Now after all this time, Im finding I am trying to save myself.
Good Luck and a hug JJ

Freedom1990

Learning not to automatically react was a huge step for me. Old behaviors die hard.

I learned the more I consciously made myself stop and think first, rather than reacting, the easier it became to 'catch' myself before I reacted.

It's going to take time to learn all these things, so be gentle with yourself. I think you will begin to see that trying to engage any sort of 'rational' conversation with an alcoholic, whether drinking or not, is usually futile.

My conversations with my 31 year old AD are always very limited. She still has an incredible sense of entitlement, everything that comes out of her mouth is a lie, and she'll be the first to tell you she has no problem, it's everyone else that's her problem.

Again, I encourage you to find Alanon in your area and start attending meetings on a regular basis for the face-to-face support.

Vanish

OK. Baby steps. Avoid feeling selfish. Both difficult to do when I want this fixed overnight. And, GADS, I hope Freedom is wrong about not being able to engage in rational conversation with an alcoholic (sober or otherwise). I don't know what alternative there is to talking things out, working together toward a mutual objective, future. I have to think on this a bit. Tough thought. Time for me start a list of alternatives or pros & cons. Something to organize my thoughts here. Totally stumped me. I believe you but DANG.

Barbara52

But her sobriety is not YOUR objective. It will be hers if she decides to seek it. You cannot in anyway cause it or prevent it.

You can work on yourself, set your boundaries, decide what you can do to keep yourself and your children safe.

Vanish

Should I talk with her and explain the new guidllines we are living under? That I did not cause, cannot control and can't cure her problem? And I won't try to control her needs any longer. Tell her that I love her but won't take the blame or be the one at fault or embarassed any longer. I won't run interference for her, won't cover for her. That whether she chooses to be an active alcoholic or a recovered alcoholic is her choice. That it is a concern to me but not a worry or mind-consuming dance I will do any longer?

Vanish

This "giving up" on her makes me so sad. :-(

bookwyrm

I felt like this about my AH too. Until I realised that, actually, my enabling of him meant I wasn't allowing him to be a responsible grown up and that I could, literally, 'help' him to death. Hanging around the forum, reading lots of books (Under the Influence and Co-dependant No More being the two that had the most profound impact on how I thought about things) helped me change how I thought about my situation.

You're not giving up on her, but allowing her to find her own way, to be responsible for her own actions, in short to be a grown up! You're giving her the space she needs to be an adult and find her own way in life. When you learn to swim, there comes a point when you leave the flotation devices behind and strike out on your own. By enabling, I make sure my AH would never be able to swim on his own, I was always there to support him, to let him float through life while I struggled to hold both our heads above water...

'Kay, no more swimming analogies, I've taken it far enough! Anyway, Vanish, let your wife be an adult. She is the only one who can change herself, just like you're the only one who can change you. And she will never become a functioning adult while you shelter her from the consequences of her actions. You're not 'giving up' on her but giving her the chance to 'get it', and giving yourself the chance for sanity! Don't beat yourself up for it.

:ghug3

Rainbowsend

Vanquish, you're not giving up on her, just letting her make her own choices

Barbara52

Sure talk to her. But remember that an adult doesn't need to be reminded over and over where you stand on things. Do it when she is sober of course. And keep reminding yourself she is an adult. Would you need to be reminded of the behaviors you as an adult are expected to show?

Barbara52

Why do you considering allowing her responsibility for her choices as giving up on her? Is she an adult or a child? Do you really want the role of caretaker?

Take a look at my signature line. That is the phrase that for me expressed by attitude best when I began to get out of my fog of denial about my now xAH and my enabling of his behaviors and choices.

Freedom1990

Do you believe in a higher power or God?

I do.

Here's a little something for you to print out and put somewhere so you can read it each day, okay?

LaTeeDa

You can talk to her if you want. Once, not over and over. I don't think it really matters much if you do or if you don't. The very first, and very best lesson I learned when I joined SR is "actions matter, words don't." If you start living all of the above, you won't have to explain anything. It will be obvious.

L

LaTeeDa

This assumes she wants the same things you want. I also had a vision of the future for my marriage. Problem was, he had an entirely different idea of what he wanted.

I think the first step is to ask yourself, honestly, what you want for your life. Then compare it to what you have. Assuming she doesn't change at all, that she is living exactly how she wants to live, can you be okay with that? You cannot change her, and you cannot drag her kicking and screaming into your vision for the future.

People come to this site all the time asking how they can be happy without leaving the alcoholic. My answer is always the same. Based on the stories of people on this forum, and in real life, the only way is to accept them exactly as they are.

L

TakingCharge999

Hello Vanish,

Once I get my hurt feelings aside and I think of myself as someone who chose not to support the disease of addiction called alcoholism, I am able to feel better about myself.

It IS hearbreaking. But then again, you just have so much energy in this life. As someone else has said... give her the dignity of making her own mistakes, of repeating them over and over again - of, perhaps, never learning from them. Give her the dignity of being human. You are NOT God. Your job is not to judge anyone else. (Sorry I do not remember who said these very wise words..)

Me too, as soon as I started working on my own issues, everything became easier, the scenario became clearer, and I was able to regain my power back... well of course that is a work in progress...

But life is too precious, addiction claims so many lives with its victims, we are the lucky ones that can choose not to engange or be part of it. Never underestimate your ability to heal and rebuild the way you live your life day by day. "Every day is a turning point" is an Ad I have next to my mirror...

Not suggesting any drastic action from your part, ultimately you are the only one who knows what is best for you. But sometimes its all so blurry, first of all we need a clear vision of our current reality...

I am rambling / please accept some ((hugs)) from sunny Mexico. I am glad I have a reading partner, I am also reading Codie no More and the Grief Club by Melody too.