Inspired Yet Bummed Out
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Originally Posted by hapapinoy 
But how do you know if your hope is reasonable or a sliver?
L
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 183
I largely lurk here on SR, and it is for the reason you touched on. I don't intend to leave my husband and we are happy the majority of the time. There are definitely peaks and valleys (sometimes very deep ones) but I've made my choices just as everyone else makes theirs. Sometimes I feel that if leaving isn't my goal I don't quite fit in. My problem, I know, but that's how I feel.
I work on me, DH works on himself, and we meet somewhere in the middle. The biggest thing that has helped me is making sure that I have my own life and that it isn't centered on what DH is doing. I can't let his issues dominate me.
SR is a tremendous resource; there is nothing more comforting than knowing you are not alone and that your situation doesn't have to be isolating.
I work on me, DH works on himself, and we meet somewhere in the middle. The biggest thing that has helped me is making sure that I have my own life and that it isn't centered on what DH is doing. I can't let his issues dominate me.
SR is a tremendous resource; there is nothing more comforting than knowing you are not alone and that your situation doesn't have to be isolating.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by ichabod
I largely lurk here on SR, and it is for the reason you touched on. I don't intend to leave my husband and we are happy the majority of the time.
JMHO
, L
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 183
Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
Maybe it's just me, but I would truly like to hear more from people who stayed. I believe your experience could be very helpful and offer another viewpoint. I cannot share how to stay (because I didn't) except second-hand from what I've heard. Hearing from those who have stayed and learned to cope would bring additional, and I think valuable, information to this board.
JMHO,
L
JMHO
, L
If my AH didn't make such an effort to stay sober I couldn't be with him. I'm fortunate in that he recognizes his problem and tries desperately to cope with life without alcohol. He slips up, but fortunately the slips are getting fewer as he ages. Right now I'm hopeful that there won't be any more slips. He's in a good place mentally and emotionally and is dedicated to his recovery, but I've been at this long enough to know that there are no definites.
When we were younger (I'm in my 40s and he's in his 50s) I was much more wrapped up in trying to save him and trying to change him and it was killing me. It was a long process of learning to let go of that, but I've somehow gotten the hang of it (most of the time).
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by ichabod
Perhaps, but I think it is hard to comment about staying in a relationship with an alcoholic without seeming either self righteous or in denial.
L
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by ichabod
I largely lurk here on SR, and it is for the reason you touched on. I don't intend to leave my husband and we are happy the majority of the time. There are definitely peaks and valleys (sometimes very deep ones) but I've made my choices just as everyone else makes theirs. Sometimes I feel that if leaving isn't my goal I don't quite fit in. My problem, I know, but that's how I feel.
I work on me, DH works on himself, and we meet somewhere in the middle. The biggest thing that has helped me is making sure that I have my own life and that it isn't centered on what DH is doing. I can't let his issues dominate me.
SR is a tremendous resource; there is nothing more comforting than knowing you are not alone and that your situation doesn't have to be isolating.
I work on me, DH works on himself, and we meet somewhere in the middle. The biggest thing that has helped me is making sure that I have my own life and that it isn't centered on what DH is doing. I can't let his issues dominate me.
SR is a tremendous resource; there is nothing more comforting than knowing you are not alone and that your situation doesn't have to be isolating.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
I think quite often posts are misinterpreted.
People here ask things like, "can you be comfortable with this behavior?" and perhaps different interpretations are read into that simple question.
"can you be comfortable with this behavior? Can you be with a woman who lies to you? cheats on you? makes out with men in front of you?" would be written in response to my posts and I would read, "what, are you an F'ing moron, how can you stay with such a lying deceitful hoor??? Are you stupid?" and I would get offended and not read what they had to say.
That was my experience until I had a different experience, I always thought people, here and otherwise were trying to use socratic questioning to make me "see the light" or something.
My girlfriend of the time looked right into my eyes and lied. I asked three times, she looked directly into my eyes and lied with utter sincerity all three times. I offered her gentle escapes, ....nothing. Just a deadpan liar.
This was a "deal breaker" for me, to say we subsequently had a difference of opinion about this is an understatement, it was the true beginning of the end for me.
Anyhow, the next day I called a friend of mine, truthfully, I think I was looking for an ally, I told the story, blow by blow, lie by lie, painting a picture of a truly deceitful hurtful human being and a good man wronged.
That's not the "story" he heard, nor was it the story he responded to.
He asked me, with utter conviction and love in his voice, with absolutely no judgment, "Andrew, is this something you can live with? Can you stay with this woman knowing she lies to you? How can you care for yourself when she lies to you? What things can you do to care for yourself, knowing she will lie to you, and that this behavior will probably continue for years?" (he has long term sobriety, she was just beginning to try sobriety and had been "slipping". Those of us that have been around "recovery" for awhile realize it actually takes YEARS for alcoholics to really change their behaviors.)
I heard him. He didn't care whether I stayed with her or not. He loved me, and was asking me how I could care for myself. If I couldn't be with someone who lied, yeah, I needed to leave, but he didn't judge her for her lying, her lying was a constant, he was asking me if I could learn to live with it as she tried to get healthy. If so, how?
I think when people ask you the "hard questions" here, they aren't saying "leave" they are trying to break through "magical thinking"
This is who your wife is Hap, to think otherwise is "magical thinking"
How can you take care of yourself? Can you live with these behaviors?
Go ahead and give her a "chance" but the fact that she is "crying" because you are "making her" quit drinking and manipulating you about how she wants to "drink normally" means she is not done and she is going to drink again.
Do you have a plan for that or are you banking on her "changing"?
I have said repeatedly here, anytime I have a "plan" that relies on someone else changing it has always failed miserably. It has never worked. not once. ever.
So, we come to "sliver of hope", is that your plan? Could you get a business loan with that plan? Would your own mother loan you money on that plan? The hope that she changes? What will you do if she doesn't? Can you go get help for yourself? Can you try out Alanon? Therapy? I mean for you. for your own mental health, not hers.
So at the end of the day, you can stay or go, as it pleases you, but if you want to stay, wouldn't it be better to have a plan that relied on changing the one thing you can change in this whole crazy mixed up thing?
You.
That is the one thing you have power over in this equation.
What can Hap do for Hap to take care of Hap that doesn't rely on her changing?
(edit P.S.) The reason I ask these things is I used to be with a carbon copy of your wife. A periodic binge drinker who although she drank rarely, while drinking was amazingly hurtful and engaged in "questionable" behaviors at best. The same behaviors your wife displays actually. Exactly. It made me crazy. I mean completely insane, I couldn't reconcile the things she did while drinking to her while not drinking, until it all became a blur and I couldn't distinguish who she was, or who I was for that matter. She'd say one thing then do another, then change back, then lash out and be more hateful and vile I have ever seen a human being be, the next day, sorry, contrite, coming at me with a "wall of seduction" and sad stories of childhood abuse, begging me to stay.
These are the things my friends in recovery would ask me. I actually couldn't "hear" them until I was "done". It probably took me another six months to finally get away completely.
People here ask things like, "can you be comfortable with this behavior?" and perhaps different interpretations are read into that simple question.
"can you be comfortable with this behavior? Can you be with a woman who lies to you? cheats on you? makes out with men in front of you?" would be written in response to my posts and I would read, "what, are you an F'ing moron, how can you stay with such a lying deceitful hoor??? Are you stupid?" and I would get offended and not read what they had to say.
That was my experience until I had a different experience, I always thought people, here and otherwise were trying to use socratic questioning to make me "see the light" or something.
My girlfriend of the time looked right into my eyes and lied. I asked three times, she looked directly into my eyes and lied with utter sincerity all three times. I offered her gentle escapes, ....nothing. Just a deadpan liar.
This was a "deal breaker" for me, to say we subsequently had a difference of opinion about this is an understatement, it was the true beginning of the end for me.
Anyhow, the next day I called a friend of mine, truthfully, I think I was looking for an ally, I told the story, blow by blow, lie by lie, painting a picture of a truly deceitful hurtful human being and a good man wronged.
That's not the "story" he heard, nor was it the story he responded to.
He asked me, with utter conviction and love in his voice, with absolutely no judgment, "Andrew, is this something you can live with? Can you stay with this woman knowing she lies to you? How can you care for yourself when she lies to you? What things can you do to care for yourself, knowing she will lie to you, and that this behavior will probably continue for years?" (he has long term sobriety, she was just beginning to try sobriety and had been "slipping". Those of us that have been around "recovery" for awhile realize it actually takes YEARS for alcoholics to really change their behaviors.)
I heard him. He didn't care whether I stayed with her or not. He loved me, and was asking me how I could care for myself. If I couldn't be with someone who lied, yeah, I needed to leave, but he didn't judge her for her lying, her lying was a constant, he was asking me if I could learn to live with it as she tried to get healthy. If so, how?
I think when people ask you the "hard questions" here, they aren't saying "leave" they are trying to break through "magical thinking"
she will drink too much.
She then becomes belligerent.
Once her mother and I had to literally drag her down the street and put her in a car because she couldn't walk after drinking at a bar.
Another time, she got drunk, became suicidal, grabbing knives and threatening suicide (she was hospitalized at that time for it). Once she ended up in bed with another woman.
At a high school reunion, she was "making out" with an old male "friend".
While drunk at a restaurant, she picked a fight with diners at an adjacent table when she overheard their political discussion.
While drunk, she has told me she is in love with another man (reunion "friend"), wants another man sexually, then denies it all when sober--says she was just trying to hurt me while drunk.
She often has no memory of her behavior.
The list could go on and on.
She then becomes belligerent.
Once her mother and I had to literally drag her down the street and put her in a car because she couldn't walk after drinking at a bar.
Another time, she got drunk, became suicidal, grabbing knives and threatening suicide (she was hospitalized at that time for it). Once she ended up in bed with another woman.
At a high school reunion, she was "making out" with an old male "friend".
While drunk at a restaurant, she picked a fight with diners at an adjacent table when she overheard their political discussion.
While drunk, she has told me she is in love with another man (reunion "friend"), wants another man sexually, then denies it all when sober--says she was just trying to hurt me while drunk.
She often has no memory of her behavior.
The list could go on and on.
How can you take care of yourself? Can you live with these behaviors?
Go ahead and give her a "chance" but the fact that she is "crying" because you are "making her" quit drinking and manipulating you about how she wants to "drink normally" means she is not done and she is going to drink again.
Do you have a plan for that or are you banking on her "changing"?
I have said repeatedly here, anytime I have a "plan" that relies on someone else changing it has always failed miserably. It has never worked. not once. ever.
So, we come to "sliver of hope", is that your plan? Could you get a business loan with that plan? Would your own mother loan you money on that plan? The hope that she changes? What will you do if she doesn't? Can you go get help for yourself? Can you try out Alanon? Therapy? I mean for you. for your own mental health, not hers.
So at the end of the day, you can stay or go, as it pleases you, but if you want to stay, wouldn't it be better to have a plan that relied on changing the one thing you can change in this whole crazy mixed up thing?
You.
That is the one thing you have power over in this equation.
What can Hap do for Hap to take care of Hap that doesn't rely on her changing?
(edit P.S.) The reason I ask these things is I used to be with a carbon copy of your wife. A periodic binge drinker who although she drank rarely, while drinking was amazingly hurtful and engaged in "questionable" behaviors at best. The same behaviors your wife displays actually. Exactly. It made me crazy. I mean completely insane, I couldn't reconcile the things she did while drinking to her while not drinking, until it all became a blur and I couldn't distinguish who she was, or who I was for that matter. She'd say one thing then do another, then change back, then lash out and be more hateful and vile I have ever seen a human being be, the next day, sorry, contrite, coming at me with a "wall of seduction" and sad stories of childhood abuse, begging me to stay.
These are the things my friends in recovery would ask me. I actually couldn't "hear" them until I was "done". It probably took me another six months to finally get away completely.
Last edited by Ago; 04-15-2009 at 08:38 PM.
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