I need wisdom!
Southern through and through
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In.....trouble :-)
Posts: 1,453
I need wisdom!
Someone on here said it's the 'wisdom' part that is recited in the Serenity Prayer that is the key. Well, anyone know where I can acquire some? Don't suggest Wal Mart. I've already checked there.
Ok, serious question. And I posed it to my Al Anon group tonight and even they didn't have a pat answer.
Daughter has recently moved into halfway house. We went to see her this weekend and I guess she is doing as good as anyone who is in early recovery can be doing. Just what is 'good' anyway???? All I know is it is still very much a roller coaster ride!
The problem I see is that she is still having a problem grasping the VERY part of the program that she needs to grasp...the fact that they (AA) tell them to NOT have relationships at least for a year. But what is my daughter doing even though she is well aware that her two relapses were directly related to boyfriends and the emotional turmoil she allowed them to put her in? She's having a relationship. (With a super codependent guy, I might add. He is NOT good for her recovery. Plus their relationship is not one of peace and serenity. It's up and down, up and down, screwing with her emotions constantly!)
Mr. Hangin' In and I have done everything we know to do to be supportive parents through all this. We have offered and paid for treatment....first 9 weeks of outpatient, 3 months of inpatient and now we are in the process of paying for the first month of halfway house (which is a pretty penny, I might add.) She is volunteering this first month thus we are providing her spending money, but made it clear if she stays longer than a month, we expect her to find a job. She said she wants to find one. She hates being dependent upon us but knows she has no other choice right now. No way she could pay for halfway house and expenses with a minimum wage job.
Now my question is this. Am I supposed to just sit with my mouth shut and watch her do the very thing she knows she is not supposed to be doing for her recovery....having this boyfriend? I know I CAN say something, but I'm asking if ya'll think it is within reason for me and Mr. Hangin' to get to express OUR view of how she is working the Lil Hangin' In and Bill program vs the Bill program. (I say that because she ADMITTED before going into rehab that she was trying to work the Lil Hangin' In & Bill program instead of doing it Bill's way.....the AA way.)
And I know ya'll won't believe this, but everytime, I mean EVERY TIME I open my mouth to her about anything that has to do with her working her program, she gets defensive, HIGHLY defensive. If I do choose to tell her that MY OBSERVATION is that she is still choosing to pick and choose how SHE wants to work the program, she will scream (not literally but you know...) "Mama, quit working my program."
But, by dern ya'll, I am sick of supporting and supporting and supporting only to watch her do THE VERY THING that led to relapse last time. And don't tell me to cut her off. I want her in the halfway house. She feels like she needs to be there and I am grateful she has made the choice to be there. I think that was a mature move on her part. A few weeks before moving there she called, crying, saying she didn't really want to go there but knew it was best for her. So she has done things right or I guess right in my eyes, but this b/f thing is really bugging me. I mean why are we doing all this only for her to ignore the advice she has been given over and over by the professionals? And isn't part of her becoming responsible being able to face reality and the truth? And the truth IS she is still working the program by picking and choosing what suits her. I think I have a right to tell her what I see. I know it's HER program to work. But when I see her so flagrantly ignoring what she knows has caused a relapse in the past, well, I'm having a hard time holding my tongue. (But I did hold it this weekend. I thought..."OK, Hangin', wait till you ask the advice of your soberrecovery buds."....smiles.)
Darn, if I knew she would still be continuting relationships DESPITE all her treatment, I could have saved us a lot of $$$ and time that we invested in supporting her in her treatment. To a certain degree, I feel like she is taking advantage of us.
I really need ya'll's viewpoint here.
Thanks guys.
Ok, serious question. And I posed it to my Al Anon group tonight and even they didn't have a pat answer.
Daughter has recently moved into halfway house. We went to see her this weekend and I guess she is doing as good as anyone who is in early recovery can be doing. Just what is 'good' anyway???? All I know is it is still very much a roller coaster ride!
The problem I see is that she is still having a problem grasping the VERY part of the program that she needs to grasp...the fact that they (AA) tell them to NOT have relationships at least for a year. But what is my daughter doing even though she is well aware that her two relapses were directly related to boyfriends and the emotional turmoil she allowed them to put her in? She's having a relationship. (With a super codependent guy, I might add. He is NOT good for her recovery. Plus their relationship is not one of peace and serenity. It's up and down, up and down, screwing with her emotions constantly!)
Mr. Hangin' In and I have done everything we know to do to be supportive parents through all this. We have offered and paid for treatment....first 9 weeks of outpatient, 3 months of inpatient and now we are in the process of paying for the first month of halfway house (which is a pretty penny, I might add.) She is volunteering this first month thus we are providing her spending money, but made it clear if she stays longer than a month, we expect her to find a job. She said she wants to find one. She hates being dependent upon us but knows she has no other choice right now. No way she could pay for halfway house and expenses with a minimum wage job.
Now my question is this. Am I supposed to just sit with my mouth shut and watch her do the very thing she knows she is not supposed to be doing for her recovery....having this boyfriend? I know I CAN say something, but I'm asking if ya'll think it is within reason for me and Mr. Hangin' to get to express OUR view of how she is working the Lil Hangin' In and Bill program vs the Bill program. (I say that because she ADMITTED before going into rehab that she was trying to work the Lil Hangin' In & Bill program instead of doing it Bill's way.....the AA way.)
And I know ya'll won't believe this, but everytime, I mean EVERY TIME I open my mouth to her about anything that has to do with her working her program, she gets defensive, HIGHLY defensive. If I do choose to tell her that MY OBSERVATION is that she is still choosing to pick and choose how SHE wants to work the program, she will scream (not literally but you know...) "Mama, quit working my program."
But, by dern ya'll, I am sick of supporting and supporting and supporting only to watch her do THE VERY THING that led to relapse last time. And don't tell me to cut her off. I want her in the halfway house. She feels like she needs to be there and I am grateful she has made the choice to be there. I think that was a mature move on her part. A few weeks before moving there she called, crying, saying she didn't really want to go there but knew it was best for her. So she has done things right or I guess right in my eyes, but this b/f thing is really bugging me. I mean why are we doing all this only for her to ignore the advice she has been given over and over by the professionals? And isn't part of her becoming responsible being able to face reality and the truth? And the truth IS she is still working the program by picking and choosing what suits her. I think I have a right to tell her what I see. I know it's HER program to work. But when I see her so flagrantly ignoring what she knows has caused a relapse in the past, well, I'm having a hard time holding my tongue. (But I did hold it this weekend. I thought..."OK, Hangin', wait till you ask the advice of your soberrecovery buds."....smiles.)
Darn, if I knew she would still be continuting relationships DESPITE all her treatment, I could have saved us a lot of $$$ and time that we invested in supporting her in her treatment. To a certain degree, I feel like she is taking advantage of us.
I really need ya'll's viewpoint here.
Thanks guys.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: California
Posts: 65
Dear Hangin' In:
(I love your signature: You can't stay where you are and go with God at the same time. LOVE IT!!)
The most important thing I think is to know that your daughter is correct, in the one sense: You can't work her program for her.
How does that saying go?.... Insanity is repeating the same behavior expecting different results. Repeating the same behavior but expecting different results. You pay. She orders off the ala carte Recovery Program menu. She relapses. You pay. She orders off the ala carte Recovery Program menu. She relapses. You pay. She orders off the ala carte Recovery Progra... Wait! I think I see a pattern here.
(Sorry ladies & gentlemen, but I feel a Melody Beattie message comin' on. I just dragged her book back out of the cabinet, and I have found some hidden gems that have really hit the nail on the head in my life recently.)
May 13 - Property Lines
"A helpful tool in our recovery, especially in the behavior we call detachment, is learnign to identify who owns what. Then we let each person own and possess his or her rightful property.
"If another person has an addiction, a problem, a feeling, or a self-defeating behaivor, that is their property, not ours. If someone is a martyr, immersed in negativity, controlling, or manipulative, that is their issue, not ours.
"If someone has acted and experienced a particular consequence, both the behavior and the consequence belong to that person.
"If someone is in denial or cannot think clearly on a particular issue, that confusion belongs to him or her.
"If someone has a limited or imparied ability to love or care, that is his or her property, not ours. If someone has no approval or nuturing to give away, that is that person's property.
"People's lies, deceptions, tricks, maniuplations, abusive behaviors, inappropriate behaviors, cheating behaviors, and tacky behaviors belong to them too. Not us.
"People's hopes and dreams are their property. Their guilt belongs to them too. Their happiness or misery is also theirs. So are their beliefs and messages.
"If some people don't like themselves, that is their choice. Other people's choices are their property, not ours.
"What people choose to say and do is their business.
"What is our property? Our property includes our behaviors, problems, feelings, happiness, misery, choices, and messages; our ability to love, care, and nurture; our thoughts, our denial, our hopes and dreams for ourselves. Wheater we allow ourselves to be controlled, manipulated, deceived, or mistreated is our business.
"In recovery, we learn an appropriate sense of ownership. If something isn't ours, we don't take it. If we take it, we learn to give it back. Let other people have their property, and learn to own and take good care of wat's ours.
-------------------------
"Today, I will work at developing a clear sens of what belongs to me, and what doesn't. If it's not mine, I won't keep it. I will deal with myself, my issues, and my responsibilities. I will take my hands off what is not mine."
------------------------
I don't know your story, but I do understand from a mother's point of view how frustrating and scary it must be to watch your daughter head down the same wrong path over and over again.
Watching my siblings raise addicted kids has taught me how important it is not to interfere with the natural course of allowing my children to make some bad choices and letting them deal with the consequences of those choices. My children are still very young (only 8 and 11), so their "wrong choices" don't yet have devastating consequences that your daughter has had. But I can tell you that I've found that the next time they approach similar situations, they tend to make better choices.
Just my 2 cents... which is about all it's worth. I don't have any experiences with addicted children so I know only what I've read and seen. I hope it helps.
(I love your signature: You can't stay where you are and go with God at the same time. LOVE IT!!)
The most important thing I think is to know that your daughter is correct, in the one sense: You can't work her program for her.
How does that saying go?.... Insanity is repeating the same behavior expecting different results. Repeating the same behavior but expecting different results. You pay. She orders off the ala carte Recovery Program menu. She relapses. You pay. She orders off the ala carte Recovery Program menu. She relapses. You pay. She orders off the ala carte Recovery Progra... Wait! I think I see a pattern here.
(Sorry ladies & gentlemen, but I feel a Melody Beattie message comin' on. I just dragged her book back out of the cabinet, and I have found some hidden gems that have really hit the nail on the head in my life recently.)
May 13 - Property Lines
"A helpful tool in our recovery, especially in the behavior we call detachment, is learnign to identify who owns what. Then we let each person own and possess his or her rightful property.
"If another person has an addiction, a problem, a feeling, or a self-defeating behaivor, that is their property, not ours. If someone is a martyr, immersed in negativity, controlling, or manipulative, that is their issue, not ours.
"If someone has acted and experienced a particular consequence, both the behavior and the consequence belong to that person.
"If someone is in denial or cannot think clearly on a particular issue, that confusion belongs to him or her.
"If someone has a limited or imparied ability to love or care, that is his or her property, not ours. If someone has no approval or nuturing to give away, that is that person's property.
"People's lies, deceptions, tricks, maniuplations, abusive behaviors, inappropriate behaviors, cheating behaviors, and tacky behaviors belong to them too. Not us.
"People's hopes and dreams are their property. Their guilt belongs to them too. Their happiness or misery is also theirs. So are their beliefs and messages.
"If some people don't like themselves, that is their choice. Other people's choices are their property, not ours.
"What people choose to say and do is their business.
"What is our property? Our property includes our behaviors, problems, feelings, happiness, misery, choices, and messages; our ability to love, care, and nurture; our thoughts, our denial, our hopes and dreams for ourselves. Wheater we allow ourselves to be controlled, manipulated, deceived, or mistreated is our business.
"In recovery, we learn an appropriate sense of ownership. If something isn't ours, we don't take it. If we take it, we learn to give it back. Let other people have their property, and learn to own and take good care of wat's ours.
-------------------------
"Today, I will work at developing a clear sens of what belongs to me, and what doesn't. If it's not mine, I won't keep it. I will deal with myself, my issues, and my responsibilities. I will take my hands off what is not mine."
------------------------
I don't know your story, but I do understand from a mother's point of view how frustrating and scary it must be to watch your daughter head down the same wrong path over and over again.
Watching my siblings raise addicted kids has taught me how important it is not to interfere with the natural course of allowing my children to make some bad choices and letting them deal with the consequences of those choices. My children are still very young (only 8 and 11), so their "wrong choices" don't yet have devastating consequences that your daughter has had. But I can tell you that I've found that the next time they approach similar situations, they tend to make better choices.
Just my 2 cents... which is about all it's worth. I don't have any experiences with addicted children so I know only what I've read and seen. I hope it helps.
Grace Under Fire
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Another world
Posts: 536
Oh Hangin,
I could tell you horror stories about
my son's relationships. I also blamed these
women for my kids addiction.....if they
had a GOOD woman they wouldn't be in this
situation. I voiced my opinion quite vocally for what it was worth in the earlier years. I can tell you it went in one ear and out the other.
Now this finance thing.....
I went through my stocks, savings, and all
for my poor children. I also filed for
bankruptcy. I am now flat broke. (Boy,
that was hard to admit) I was just thinking about that today. What a lesson.
In my neck of the woods, there are free
rehabs, recovery homes, and halfway houses.
And they are considered good. Also your
daughter should be entitled to some kind
of aide while she is in recovery. This
would help with the finances, and give you
some slack.
Hugs Hangin!
I could tell you horror stories about
my son's relationships. I also blamed these
women for my kids addiction.....if they
had a GOOD woman they wouldn't be in this
situation. I voiced my opinion quite vocally for what it was worth in the earlier years. I can tell you it went in one ear and out the other.
Now this finance thing.....
I went through my stocks, savings, and all
for my poor children. I also filed for
bankruptcy. I am now flat broke. (Boy,
that was hard to admit) I was just thinking about that today. What a lesson.
In my neck of the woods, there are free
rehabs, recovery homes, and halfway houses.
And they are considered good. Also your
daughter should be entitled to some kind
of aide while she is in recovery. This
would help with the finances, and give you
some slack.
Hugs Hangin!
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Hangin'
Eyes (and Melody) said it so well. And Josie too.
With a name like Hangin', I KNOW it is hard to let go, but let go you must. Let her find her own way - you can't buy her sobriety. My son finds his way to recovery best when he is on the street. That "street" takes him back to the road of recovery faster than anything I know. And it cost me thousands of dollars to find out that the best way was HIS way and he always finds programs that cost me nothing.
"Hands off the addict....and hands off their recovery".
You can do it Hangin' - I just know that if you sit on your hands for a while and chew Jujubes, life will unfold just fine.
It's awfully early in the morning for me to be giving a bunny slipper nudge
but you know I do it with love in my heart. :fpink
Hugs
Ann
Eyes (and Melody) said it so well. And Josie too.
With a name like Hangin', I KNOW it is hard to let go, but let go you must. Let her find her own way - you can't buy her sobriety. My son finds his way to recovery best when he is on the street. That "street" takes him back to the road of recovery faster than anything I know. And it cost me thousands of dollars to find out that the best way was HIS way and he always finds programs that cost me nothing.
"Hands off the addict....and hands off their recovery".
You can do it Hangin' - I just know that if you sit on your hands for a while and chew Jujubes, life will unfold just fine.
It's awfully early in the morning for me to be giving a bunny slipper nudge
but you know I do it with love in my heart. :fpink Hugs
Ann
believer
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: walking in faith
Posts: 1,023
Hi Hangin'
(Now stop that! I hear you groaning all the way over here!)
Footing your daughter's rehab bill doesn't mean you get to tell her how to work her program. It basically means, well, you're out of some loot. Now, I think it was very loving and supportive thing to do, but you knew going in that rehab might or might not work.
The bottom line hasn't and won't ever change - it's her program. You've got to let go. I know that paying her finances is a huge trigger for you, so I think maybe it's time to back out of that mode. Listen to Josie. It's time your daughter learns that her own two feet are for standing on, and for you to let her, whether she falls over or not.
Hugs,
JG
(Now stop that! I hear you groaning all the way over here!
)Footing your daughter's rehab bill doesn't mean you get to tell her how to work her program. It basically means, well, you're out of some loot. Now, I think it was very loving and supportive thing to do, but you knew going in that rehab might or might not work.
The bottom line hasn't and won't ever change - it's her program. You've got to let go. I know that paying her finances is a huge trigger for you, so I think maybe it's time to back out of that mode. Listen to Josie. It's time your daughter learns that her own two feet are for standing on, and for you to let her, whether she falls over or not.
Hugs,
JG
Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 444
Geesh! Hangin--I saw your title, and was ready to just jump right in here and give all the wisdom I've been gathering over the years, and guess what--I gained wisdom!
I think these gals are right!
Hang in there!
Hugs,
Lyn
I think these gals are right!
Hang in there!
Hugs,
Lyn
Paused
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: ohio
Posts: 322
Hangin in
man ! there is so much wisdom that comes out in here
it overwhelms me !!
we seem to think
if we do things or say things over and over that one of these days
they are going to get it right ! Get what? the way we think it should be. The perfect way,follow the rules,put A slot into B slot
and you get C,perfect fit. Life is soooo much more complicated !
Two wks ago I thought bringing my daughter home was going
to help her,Wrong. things got worse.
Today, I am totaly out of what she is doing in her recovery. I dont even ask. One day at a time i am doing this,#1 reason,she doesnt listen to me ! #2 its what I have to do to keep my
sanity and program as my priority.
Hangin, we can do this but only for today. I am feelin much more
free.
love
liddy
man ! there is so much wisdom that comes out in here
it overwhelms me !!
we seem to think
if we do things or say things over and over that one of these days
they are going to get it right ! Get what? the way we think it should be. The perfect way,follow the rules,put A slot into B slot
and you get C,perfect fit. Life is soooo much more complicated !
Two wks ago I thought bringing my daughter home was going
to help her,Wrong. things got worse.
Today, I am totaly out of what she is doing in her recovery. I dont even ask. One day at a time i am doing this,#1 reason,she doesnt listen to me ! #2 its what I have to do to keep my
sanity and program as my priority.
Hangin, we can do this but only for today. I am feelin much more
free.
love
liddy
Queen of one liners
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: walking beside you! Not in front of you.
Posts: 658
((((Hangin and all)))))
You asked for wisdon Hangin and there it came...Just so you don't feel out in left field with this lettin go stuff....
Everything I ever let go of had craw marks all over it....
Thanks for all the wisdon gang, I am printing it out right now....
Blessings!
You asked for wisdon Hangin and there it came...Just so you don't feel out in left field with this lettin go stuff....
Everything I ever let go of had craw marks all over it....
Thanks for all the wisdon gang, I am printing it out right now....
Blessings!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: That's what I'd like to know.
Posts: 2,416
Hangin'....
If you keep wiping her butt for her she is never going to learn where the toilet paper aisle in the supermarket is.
Your daughter seems to be one that is not inclined to learn from other people's mistakes. How will she learn from her own mistakes if there are never any real consequences? Oooooh, she broke the recovery rules. She has to go back to a dull ol' rehab. Awwwww. Oooooh, she won't get a job. She has to live in Mom-n-Dad Hangin's cushy house. What a drag!!!
Let go Hangin', and let her fall on her tuchus. That's how she'll learn. If you are tired of paying for rehab only to watch her do the same things... stop paying for rehab. You can't learn her lessons for her. You can't have common sense for her. You can't buy her recovery for her. We all have people in our lives that we would do all the hard stuff for IF WE COULD. We CAN'T.
hugs,
Smoke
If you keep wiping her butt for her she is never going to learn where the toilet paper aisle in the supermarket is.
Your daughter seems to be one that is not inclined to learn from other people's mistakes. How will she learn from her own mistakes if there are never any real consequences? Oooooh, she broke the recovery rules. She has to go back to a dull ol' rehab. Awwwww. Oooooh, she won't get a job. She has to live in Mom-n-Dad Hangin's cushy house. What a drag!!!
Let go Hangin', and let her fall on her tuchus. That's how she'll learn. If you are tired of paying for rehab only to watch her do the same things... stop paying for rehab. You can't learn her lessons for her. You can't have common sense for her. You can't buy her recovery for her. We all have people in our lives that we would do all the hard stuff for IF WE COULD. We CAN'T.
hugs,
Smoke
Southern through and through
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In.....trouble :-)
Posts: 1,453
Well, I have to thank you guys for your answers. But NOT because it was what I wanted to hear.
But the reason I am thanking you is because your answers did confirm something I've been suspecting for a long time. So move over Dion Warwick cause Hangin' In is here and she is the NEW PSYCHIC on the block!!!!
And you wonder if this is true? Why, of course it is! Ya'll confirmed it cause before I even began this thread I KNEW, I JUST KNEW what ya'll were going to say....
Now if anyone wants me to predict your future, get in line. I charge $100 buck a pop. Well heck, I've got to pay for the halfway house some way!....lol.
And ya'll put down those big ole boards. I know you're wanting to hit me over the head with them...lol.
And I swear, if ya'll don't start telling me what I want to hear, I'm going to have to dump ya'll and find me another crowd to run with...lol.
Love you guys! I'm going to try and heed your advice......
by 2010!.... (Hey, I didn't get sick overnight and I'm not going to get well overnight either...smiles.)
But the reason I am thanking you is because your answers did confirm something I've been suspecting for a long time. So move over Dion Warwick cause Hangin' In is here and she is the NEW PSYCHIC on the block!!!!
And you wonder if this is true? Why, of course it is! Ya'll confirmed it cause before I even began this thread I KNEW, I JUST KNEW what ya'll were going to say....
Now if anyone wants me to predict your future, get in line. I charge $100 buck a pop. Well heck, I've got to pay for the halfway house some way!....lol.
And ya'll put down those big ole boards. I know you're wanting to hit me over the head with them...lol.
And I swear, if ya'll don't start telling me what I want to hear, I'm going to have to dump ya'll and find me another crowd to run with...lol.
Love you guys! I'm going to try and heed your advice......
by 2010!....
(Hey, I didn't get sick overnight and I'm not going to get well overnight either...smiles.)
Paused
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 1
God Bless Hangin!
I am in an alanon group, I live with an alcoholic/drup addict husband. I did all the things you do for your daughter.
Today, I have gained some sanity... thanks to my HIGHER POWER and ALANON! I am working my program and he is still active. I can only change myself...... I had to let go and let god.....
He doesnt like my changes.... and believe me it hurt to let go.
I hope my message helps you in some way... Again, God Bless and Take Care of Hangin!
I am in an alanon group, I live with an alcoholic/drup addict husband. I did all the things you do for your daughter.
Today, I have gained some sanity... thanks to my HIGHER POWER and ALANON! I am working my program and he is still active. I can only change myself...... I had to let go and let god.....
He doesnt like my changes.... and believe me it hurt to let go.
I hope my message helps you in some way... Again, God Bless and Take Care of Hangin!
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