hapapinoy

I've been lurking for a while before I registered. I've seen a lot of posts, but I'm not sure if I really fit in with everyone else here.

My story is that I've been married for 9 years to a wonderful woman (second marriage for both). She has a lot of issues with Post-traumatic stress disorder from a prior abusive marriage, a difficult childhood where apparently it was the tradition for people to drink heavily, and she is on medication for depression/bipolar-like issues. Her depression is actually much better on medication. She sees a psychologist and a psychiatrist (they work together in the same office).

There is only one real issue that prevents us from having a perfect marriage: her drinking. It is the only source of contention in our marriage. She is not a daily drinker by any means, and never has been during our marriage. She typically will drink when at a restaurant one or twice a week. However, every few months, usually when she is out at a dinner party or other social situation, she will drink too much. She then becomes belligerent. Once her mother and I had to literally drag her down the street and put her in a car because she couldn't walk after drinking at a bar. Another time, she got drunk, became suicidal, grabbing knives and threatening suicide (she was hospitalized at that time for it). Once she ended up in bed with another woman. At a high school reunion, she was "making out" with an old male "friend". While drunk at a restaurant, she picked a fight with diners at an adjacent table when she overheard their political discussion. While drunk, she has told me she is in love with another man (reunion "friend"), wants another man sexually, then denies it all when sober--says she was just trying to hurt me while drunk. She often has no memory of her behavior. The list could go on and on.

My point is, that these event are widely spaced apart; typically by months. Each event does not then trigger a binge of many days.

I suspect that this is partly tied in with her mental health issues. However, her psychologist thinks that just by treating her Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, my wife will be able to drink "normally". I am not convinced; I think my wife may have two issues--her mental health and her periodic problem drinking. They may be related, but I think they also need to each be addressed.

While my wife is very compliant with her mental health therapy, she vigorously rebels at the idea that she should refrain from drinking altogether. She says she wants to have a "normal life" and be able to drink limited amounts. She says not drinking gives her a "lower quality of life".

I am not sure that my story really fits in with everyone else here. Is this really an alcohol issue? Am I unreasonable in saying that she must not have any alcohol at at? We recently tried her on a modest amount of alcohol with me around only, and although over a 6 month time she hadn't gone to the excess that she had in the past, I am feeling a lot of push-back and half-truths from her that makes me concerned that she obsesses too much about alcohol.

Sorry for the length of my post. I am not sure of where to turn, really. I'm not sure that my situation would fit in at a typical Al-Anon group.

peaceteach

Hi Hap. One thing we, as "loved ones" of an alcoholic, tend to do before we are really ready to admit that there is an alcoholism problem, is to MINIMIZE the things that are happening to us in our homes due to our loved one's drinking. We aren't sure whether our situation is "bad enough" to qualify as alcoholism, or whether we are being too uptight or demanding or out of line, especially when we have a spouse/significant other who repeatedly tells us we are making too much of things, we are expecting too much. Because alcoholics and addicts are also really good at deflecting blame back onto us, and we tend to really fall for that stuff.

I know that I spent years thinking maybe tomorrow things would get better, maybe I am too rigid in my expectations, maybe he WOULD learn to just settle down and drink socially and/or occasionally. But he didn't, couldn't, because he was an alcoholic.

Hap, your wife sounds like an alcoholic to me. And you sound like you are beginning to realize that it is not going to get better unless she chooses abstinence, total abstinence, from alcohol. Which she isn't interested in doing. Which really means she will choose the booze over her marriage to you, Hap, if you decide to go that direction. You really don't have any control over this, Hap. She has to really WANT to stop drinking, and she isn't interested in that at all, sounds like.

Acceptance of the reality of your situation is a very painful experience, Hap. Be gentle with yourself, but try to face the reality. Read the stickies (the threads at the top of this page) and keep reading/posting here for acknowledgement and support. Try a counselor of your own (hers doesn't sound very educated on addiction/alcohol) and al-anon if that sounds like something you would be interested in.

You came to a great place to educate yourself, Hap. Lesson number one is to forget trying to get your wife to stop drinking, because you can't. Only she can. What you can do is look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if this is how you want to spend the rest of YOUR life. Change happens within you, Hap. Not her. Good luck, and welcome to S.R.

Barbara52

Welcome. ANd I'm pretty sure you could benefit for AlAnon and positng here.

Alcoholism is complicate on its own and when you thrown in your wife's other issues, its even more so. But it still come down to you learing about the disease and learning coping skills to deal with it all. Stick around. You might learn something to help yourself.

Dreamchaser71

Welcome hapapinoy,
Try going to the Alanon self test-- You just might be surprised at how many you answer yes to. I know I was. I'm sorry that you are torn and struggling but know that there are others that will listen to you no matter how silly you may feel your issue is. You may want to try and talk to her therapist and let them know what is going on and see what they may suggest. :ghug

cmc

Welcome to SR. I'm so glad you found us. As you can see by the great replies you've received already; if someone else's drinking is a problem for you, this is a good place to find some information & support.

supernova

Hi Hap,
I am a child of an alcoholic. I also work with many women who are alcoholics or are drug addicted. One woman once told me that those who are addicted "they lie, they lie and lie somemore." I never forgot that. Those half-truths you talk about are just old fashion lies. Take heart. I was a little older when my mom's drinking became really problematic. She always had a great story as to why she was dizzy, or lightheaded or clumsy. A lot of women drink in secret, so wary about what she says to you. Go to a group, talk to someone who is knowledgeable about alcoholism. It usually gets worse over time. Take care of yourself, it can be a rough go.



"You don't need a good memory if you always tell the truth."

hapapinoy

Thanks. I had taken the Al-Anon self-test under the "sticky" posts. I scored 8 questions, which, according to the post, suggests that Al-Anon might help.

However, I just get the feeling that most people here are fighting a daily battle, and not encountering the intermittent events I have been experiencing. I just wasn't sure if I fit in as a result.

cmc

Hap, I see all kinds of situations in my Al-Anon meetings, and my own experiences are varied over time as well. This disease is progressive. There are those of us who are friends and/or family of people in recovery, daily drinkers, binge drinkers, drinkers who relapse after various periods of sobriety and so on. The good news is that like this forum, the focus of Al-Anon is on -me- and how I am doing with whatever the situation is. The details of our stories may be similar or not but the core issue is the same.

ToughChoices

At first I wasn't sure if I fit in either. My former partner would binge once every month or 2, and our disagreements over alcohol didn't infiltrate daily life for a good long while.

In my STBXAH's case, eventually (and quite suddenly), the drinking got much worse.

I don't know what will happen with your wife's drinking, but I do know that if her current behavior is a problem for you, you have excellent reason to be here.

This site has been a lifesaver for me. I'm glad you found us!

-TC

ICant

Please go to Al-Anon. The support group is not there for people to swap horror stories on what the latest is with the alcoholic (although if that is what you want to talk about it, that's fine too). I find it has helped me understand all my previous and current relationships. I have changed my attitudes and behaviours and good things have resulted. Really, the program helps me. If the alcoholic was no longer in my life, I would still go. However, if you aren't ready yet to go, then just being aware that it is there, may help you cope with the latest drama.

hapapinoy

Thanks for that word of advice.

It's just that I'm not sure of myself. My wife basically is saying that I don't trust her because I am demanding that she doesn't drink at all. She says she will prove that she can drink in moderation. She has been deceitful, but says she deserves another chance. It's making me question myself....am I being unreasonable?

Still Waters

Whoa, wait a second. I have a very very dear friend who is bi-polar and one of the big no no's with that illness (and the meds they're on) is NO DRINKING. None, period.

That said, if your wife gets out of control when she's drinking, then it's a no brainer. Stop drinking simple yes? For us maybe, but if she's an alcoholic, it won't be simple.

Welcome to the world of living with the insanity of addiction. We are always unreasonable, we don't love them enough, we are the problem, we are the cause, we we we. According to them.

No, you are NOT being unreasonable at all.

bluejay6

i am just not getting the "wonderful woman" you say you are married to.

she abuses strangers in restaurants, engages in public drunken rages, kisses other men, goes to bed with other women, threatens further infidelities, does not follow specific directions from doctors, and abandons you emotionally again and again and again and again.

she's an alcoholic with a co-occurring disorder (probably several) and should be evaluated at a treatment center specializing in such.

she is also tyrannizing you and you are taking it.

you are a battered husband.

the best advice is to get some serious counseling for yourself, go to al-anon, and speak with an attorney, for things are going downhill from here.

the PTSD from a previous abusive marriage? the drunks in the family of origin? she has you convinced that that's to blame for her behavior?

she is a major con artist and you are taking it hook, line and sinker. she's got you isolated and under control, just the way all addicts like to keep their spouses so nothing threatens their drinking.

alcohol is number one with her. the litmus test for that will be if you refuse to stay with her if she doesn't get sober.

i'm sorry to be so blunt. we are all so good at deluding ourselves because we don't want to lose anything...like a husband or a wife or a home.

it just coddles the addiction when we do that.

read around here a lot and see what lights go off in your head. i'm sorry for your pain and distress. you are in for some tough decisions and you'll need support. hoping you will find it. your life does not have to be one ongoing tragic burlesque. you can change it.

all the best, and much strength and courage your way.

marshallzhukov

Ditto to what BlueJay said, the fact of the matter is that the number of times a week, month or year that your wife drinks is really irrelevant, it's what happens when she does drink. The behavior that you described is totally unacceptable by anyone's standards except maybe her own, and the frequency with which it happens is really a secondary issue. And although I will add the proviso that I am not an M.D., I know enough about the medication prescribed to bi-polar patients to know that they should not be drinking under any circumstances while they are taking them. Tell a 'normal' person that is suffering from a health problem, say Diabetes, or for that matter a woman who has recently become pregnant, that he or she should not drink for that particular reason, and chances are they will comply with that advice. But tell an alcoholic the same thing, and he or she will disregard it entirely, as it seems your wife has done.
Just one other way of looking at it, even if it is not entirely scientific - her drinking got you to this site? Then that means that it is a problem, even if she will not admit it at this point.
I hope you stick around - there is a lot of experience, strength and hope on this site. Best of luck to you...

hapapinoy

Thanks for the support here.

I think in some ways, her belief in herself as "not an alcoholic" is buttressed by her psychologist who is focusing on the Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). The psychologist feels she can substantially treat the PTSD, which she has been doing with some sort of therapy involving a shifting blinking light. (I thought it was crazy, but there is some degree of psychological literature behind this.) At any rate, the hope of the psychologist is that the alcoholic behavior will go away with treatment of the underlying PTSD.

My concern is that this treatment is a situation of "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

I think the psychologist is downplaying the independent role of alcohol in my wife's problems. Of course, my wife feeds into this....anything to allow her "permission" to keep drinking.

By my way of thinking, the very fact that I get so much resistance from my wife about her stopping drinking is proof of how very large a role it plays in her life.

When you consider what she has done under the influence of alcohol, I would think that she would be horrified and would, if she cared for me, not even want to take a CHANCE that it could ever happen again by giving up alcohol entirely.

The fact that she has been refusing to take this step makes me feel that alcohol is more important to her than I am.

Barbara52

Many people have PTSD, an abusive childhood, a variety of mental illnesses, etc. without ever becoming an alcoholic.

lissyl

I think it's hard to define an 'alcoholic'. I always had a certain naive image of what an alcoholic is - I didnt know any or had never had to deal with anyone who abused alcohol, so I pictured an alcoholic as some hopeless sloppy addict that couldnt go a day without a drink and who couldnt look after themselves. And then I fell in love with someone and I was in denial of his problem because he seemed to have it together, he doesnt drink every night, and he's a good guy otherwise, we have a good relationship etc etc so I'm constantly questioning myself. And of course he's a master at trying to minimise the problem and make it seem like I'm inflating and inventing things. It's very lonely.

But you know, in the end, deep down you know there's a problem. You shouldnt feel that level of hurt because of someone's drinking habits, it's not fair or okay or normal and you know it. It's good that the instances of her drinking have reduced, but obviously there are some huge lingering issues there, that you shouldnt have to deal with alone.

HoopNinja

Hap,
The blinking light thing is EMDR and is a form of treatment for PTSD. It does work--but why anyone would think that once PTSD is treated alcoholis will just fade away. That is just nuts.
I have 2 adopted kids with PTSD and other serious mental health issues--and I have secondary PTSD (I would venture to guess there are others out here who may have it too from living with alcoholics). I also am still living with hopefully STBAXH. I take medication for depression and PTSD and let me tell you--never in a million years would I toss alcohol on top of it. One of the biggies for anyone taking medication for bipoliar or depression is to lay off the alcohol because it is a depressant--so it makes a person more prone to depressin and PTSD. I am not sure what her psychologist is telling her--also did you get that from her psychologist or did you wife tell you once the PTSD was treated the alcohol problems would go away.
Your wife is self-medicating and in the words of the psych who is treating my kids--she chooses not to get help for her alcoholism. She is using her mental health conditions as some sort of justification for her alcoholism. Alcoholics will always find a way to drink and will always find a reason why it is OK to do it.

GiveLove

Hap,

Regarding the "just happens once in a while" thing - if you or your kids or your wife were just being physically beaten "once in a while" would that make it okay? After all, it's not every day...

The thing about alcoholism is that alcohol IS more important than we are. That's the whole point. I could not settle for such a situation in my life any more. I couldn't cope with someone who put our relationship and her own health at risk out of stubbornness. I am not willing to be with somebody who puts a bottle before me - ever. I would rather be alone, where at least I know the score and I might have hope for a happy future.

On medications for depression and bi-polar disorder, she should not be drinking at all. That's also putting you and her in jeopardy.

If YOU feel comfortable giving her another chance to prove herself - and it's entirely up to you and your preferences, as I certainly would not after all you've been through - then you should be crystal clear what will happen the next time she crosses that boundary.

What WOULD you do, by the way? And would you be willing to stick to it, even in the face of the crying and pleading and manipulation that will inevitably come when you try to enforce it? How much more are you willing to take?

Many guys are really good at rescuing and protecting others, but not good at protecting themselves from damage. I hope you can find a way to do that....life is so much bigger than just devoting your life to trying to save somebody else's.

TakingCharge999

Hi hap

Just offering some ((hugs)). I used to believe my ex AH boyfriend version of reality (TWISTED!) and ignore mine. Learning to trust my gut and protect myself was a huge lesson. It is painful to realize no amount of love and good times is "good enough" for them to change their drinking.

During active alcoholism things will always progress to the worse.

You did not cause her problems
You do not control her drinking
You cannot cure her.

What are you going to do now to feel better and to protect yourself is what matters.