ToughChoices

After separation and filing for divorce from my (very) STBXAH, I've just started seeing a really nice, non-addicted man.

For as long as I can remember, I have been the leader of the "My love will save you and reveal your true potential" club. I've been more than willing to sacrifice myself on the altar of love. I have been QUICK to fall head over heels.

And it's so weird not to feel that way.

I am NOT crazy about this man.
I like him and respect him, find him attractive and fun, and at the end of our time together I want to go home and enjoy my time alone. I want to sleep alone, all night in MY bed.

Which is a FAR CRY from how I felt in my previous relationships - where it moved from an attentive glance to an all-consuming passion in no time flat. First date followed almost immediately by moving in together.

This lack of craziness feels good. It feels like progress.
But it is strange and new.
And in some ways, it feels like something is missing, kwim?

I thought I'd share a bit about this because it occurred to me that this new relationship makes MY history of relationship dysfunction SO apparent. It really helps point out the ways that I must change in order to move forward - and those changes are all about ME - they have nothing at all to do with my STBXAH.

For now I am enjoying the time that I spend with this man, being (what, to my codie-self, feels like brutally) honest with him about how I feel, what I want, what I like etc...., and seeing what evolves.
So different.

I know others have been here - what was/is your recovery dating life like?
Thanks!

MissFixit

TC,

Good for you!

How are things with the posssible move?

I am still a little too early on in my newfound detachment to date. Over the weekend, I went to a party celebrating a friends' engagement. There was a cute man there who kept standing next to me trying to come up with things to say. He was polite and flirted with me, but I am not in the "flirt back" mindset. Nothing came of it other than a nice conversation. However, it was the first time in years that I was simply myself in friend mode as a single person without a date/boyfriend at home/relationship/desire to get into said relationship. This was a new kind of independent experience for me.

Funny you should post this as I have been saying I cannot imagine dating again, but did meet someone nice over the weekend.

Miss

Pelican

Thank you for sharing, TC!

I always appreciate your insight. I was just sitting here thinking about the wonderful day I had yesterday with my two teens. I so enjoy spending time with them. I realized that I was able to stay in the moment and focus on our day together and not be distracted by "crazy" thoughts about a SO in the relationship. It's refreshing.

Thanks again for sharing.

ToughChoices

Thanks for asking, Miss!
Everything is lining up nicely. I found a great (and relatively inexpensive!) pre-school for DS in the new town, and I'm looking forward to the change.

I've got the "want to be finished with exams" bug, something FIERCE, though! I'm trying to stay in the NOW instead of projecting into the future, but I'm finding it difficult because the future holds so much promise!

I'm glad to hear that you're returning to your pre-L status. It's nice to be single and independent - very freeing. Enjoy!

-TC

tallulah

Thank you for sharing TC.

When I met the A I had a good chunk of time 'alone' and single. I'd been in relationships (all long term) since I was 14 and wasn't looking for a relationship. I was even in a place where I met a guy who I went on a couple of dates with and decided this one isn't for me I am worth more than he can offer and ended it. So, I felt in a pretty healthy area of my life, knowing what I wanted and didn't want and not prepared to 'settle'.

When I met the A, as I said, I was not looking to fall in love, but I did. But I still considered every plateau I reached with him until I decided to step up to the next level. And yet it all ended and not in a pleasant way. I wonder how in the hell that happened... but sometimes I just think people get blinded. I know I have a radar because I had spent time getting it and had use of it before but I think I was in a whiteout (although I knew I was I just thought waiting it out would eventually bring the end of the storm... of course that was never going to happen with a person so deep in denial).

So now what. Well it is early days (only a couple of weeks) but I am already just being 'light' and open to possibilities. Not rushing to find a replacement but not building a wall around myself either. My friends will not allow me to go into Miss Haversham mode. I met someone through what happened to me at the hands of the A. I didn't even know he thought I was cute until someone pointed it out. He is just a lovely, sweet and interesting man (and cute and a Doctor but you cant have it all ).

Will I go out with him for the coffee he has offered to buy me? Maybe.. after a little time. My first instinct is 'hell no' but like my friends said... it is coffee is all. I think if you are open with no expectations, but all your ducks in a row, then you can't go far wrong.

You have your inner voice.. and what you have experienced has taught you to listen to it and not ignore it. Enjoy TC. :ghug

nowinsituation

Hey TC- good for you! Dating has been a whole new arena for me. It is crazy to be at my age (47 LOL) and JUST now learning how to date! I never had any serious relationships until I met my XAH at age 20; married him, stuck around for 25 years. It so hard to meet new people and try to keep that needy insecure part of me "in check".

My experiences, I have met a ton of new people, I have had a blast doing things and going places that I never would have done on my own, had my heart broken, learned huge things about myself and that it's OK to not like every guy that shows interest in me (WOW that was new). A few of the men I have dated I have been able to stay friends with (eventually, even the one that broke my heart). My sponser and my therapist have been my best guides and teachers through it all.

This past weekend I had a first date with a new guy -- best date ever! He brought flowers and chocolate; and even note from his kids certifying him as a "nice guy" (LOL -- based on some of our emails and phone conversations -- very cute). We went out to dinner and went dancing to a great band. Definately planning to see him again, and we have had the talk about kids and other committments, that have to come first (don't expect to see me every day, or even every weekend) and that's OK. That's been the issue with lots of my dates; they seem to want to "own" me immediately. The old me would have been thrilled with that; the new me, not so much.

Good luck, it's a roller coaster of a different kind, but it's the fun one you get back in line for to ride again!

Daisy30

TC glad things are going well. I too was like you in my thinking with a relationship. That my LOVE would save them.

I have been having these "dating" thoughts lately. Mine go more like this though: If AH and I were to not reconcile...would I date? Could I date? Clearly I have not been able to pick a good partner for myself. I had some bad relationships in the past. I really thought AH was different from the others. There must be some subsconsious signal that I pick up on or some internal feeling that I ignore.

Your post gives me food for thought

Ago

Great Topic

Dating IS different in recovery, dating is different when I am different

I have done the "year alone" thing a few times, I noticed it didn't make me any "at" relationships, but it made me better "in" relationships if that makes sense

( I was actually really looking forward to being single for a year, when I met the person I am presently dating, and I'm sorry but she was WAY too good to pass up....... I wasn't looking for anyone, and met her in the last place I ever expected to meet someone hehe)

I do notice I seem to do a LOT better if there is someone else on the other side.

Someone I can disagree with, and still be "heard", someone I can navigate difficulties with, to disagree, but not be disagreeable.

Someone who will take the time to listen and validate what is going on with me

Someone who knows how to something other then just "The Hearts and Flowers" phase of the relationship

For me, it's been my experience that I attract my mirror on some level, whether it's my opposite (codie/alkie) or another version of "me"

In the fourth step, I was asked to write out a "sexual ideal" (relationship ideal) then I was told to "become" that person.

Like attracts like

Also, I've noticed that if I "renounce the garment of the Lord, and receive it as your gift"

When I wasn't looking for a relationship, didn't need a relationship, didn't want a relationship, one appeared.

If I go looking to complete myself with "outside stuff", be it relationships, stuff, shopping, drugs, chocolate whatever, I end up empty, but I find if I work on my interior life, someone can "complement" my life.

Guy named Joe H says, "Nobody is required to change in order for me to get well."

If I can make this a basis for my emotional life, I can actually do OK, but I have to admit, if there is actually another "live" person at the "other end" of the relationship, it has the capability to be really really good.

I have had that experience in the past, and am having that now. My experience in the past validates what is happening now, otherwise I would be in the "this is too good to be true so it must be F'd up" phase.

My friend Lucien has been married for many years, in a meeting recently, everyone was sharing at how "hard" relationships were, at how much "work" relationships were, he started sharing about having an "effortless" marriage.

It wasn't that he didn't do the work, it was that he enjoyed the communication, that it wasn't "work", that it was one of the joys of being in love, one of the benefits, not a drawback.

This is, of course only possible, (in my opinion) if both partners HAVE done quite a bit of "work" on themselves, and are willing to do "the work" necessary to keep having the relationship evolve.

One thing I am sure of, that has become clear to me, is I have a LOT of work to do right now, both on my insides, and my outsides.

I want to become and be a better man, someone who can "man up" when necessary, and be vulnerable when necessary, one who is complete and self sufficient, but open to change as well.

I have a LOT of work to do right now (am doing), but I'm doing it for me, because I want to, because I WANT to become a better man, to keep growing. The moment I start doing that 'work" for someone else, I am headed for trouble, deep trouble.

I subscribe to the notion that relationships are there to teach you lessons you either missed in childhood, or later on, but I noticed as I "evolved" and "went deeper" in my recovery, so did the people I picked, and my relationships with those around me.

So, once again, the relationship I am in right now by no means "completes" me, it sure does complement me.

GiveLove

Hi TC,

I have to say that I have always had the same dating patterns you did - it went quickly from "Nice to be with" to "Gotta gotta have him" in no time flat. It landed me in all of my addictive relationships.

I decided, when I started dating again, that I wasn't going to do that any more. I think I had suffered enough at that point, I'd been in counseling to identify my tendencies, plus I had passed through that hormonal window where we're biologically more manic about coupling and nesting (I was 38). And so it wasn't AS hard to stay in the now, to keep my interests and my boundaries firmly up-front in my mind, as I thought it would be.

I thought it was weird too, though, at first. The ability to say, "Hi, you're nice, let's do things together, now I have to go back to my life, bye!" -- that wasn't in my skillset at the beginning LOL And it felt weird and detached. I questioned myself.

But there was a lot of recovery churn going on inside at the time, like with you. I also found myself interested for the first time in healthy people, with whom I'd never felt I had anything in common before. I sensed in them an Answer to the habitual patterns of behavior that I'd toted around my whole life. AND for the first time, I wasn't drawn to the gorgeous, every-girl-wants-him guy any more, but to the regular, smart, funny, quiet, average-looking men who populated my life but who had always been invisible to me before. Another interesting pair of observations.

I didn't need a "deep" relationship, didn't even necessarily want one. I was finally fine. And then, of course, one showed up.

Eventually I dated a man who matched the person I'd written about in my healthy-relationship journal: Healthy in mind and body, smart as heck, funny, financially stable, from a healthy family, with unshakeable honesty and a quick non-groping hug, and no trace of codependent clinging. At that point something clicked in me that said: Alright. Explore the more dangerous reaches with this guy. Something here is important to your future happiness.

But even then, the desperation never really returned. There were some difficult moments where my codie-ness threatened the relationship, but I recognized it quickly enough and he was stable enough to work through it with me to a place of strength.

So ------ yes, it felt weird.
But I kept my recovery tools on my person at all times, and so it has worked out for me so far. I think that's the important part for me: to never, ever return to that grasping, clinging, dependent, "soulmate" kind of love again. That just doesn't serve me, and doesn't interest me any more.

Sorry for the tome. I find the topic really interesting.....

Good luck!
GL

CoDieNOmore

I really enjoyed reading the out come of hard self work... I'm so not there yet but am working on it.

Ago

Cha-ching

Exactly

I have "dropped the ball" twice, it didn't last long, (less then a full 24 hours)and we were able to walk through it together, as opposed to having it escalate.

I do "you having a hard time" great, I wonderful, I am loving, I am caring, I do "me having a hard time" not quite as well.

Having someone else "over there" that can be strong enough and patient enough to walk through it with me sped up that "me having a hard time" process immensely until it was just a tiny "blip", not a "deal breaker" car crash.

This makes it "safe" for me to "have a hard time" which in turn, makes it easy for me to communicate, which in turn makes me "having a hard time" happen less and pass more effortlessly and easy.

Now I know what to do and say if it gets rough, because it's now safe for me to human, to have feelings, to know what I say isn't going to get twisted and manipulated and used against me at the first possible opportunity as "ammunition", that it's used for the purpose it was intended for, to be closer.

Make sense?

GiveLove

Kendra, you're doing great. Keep your recovery tools handy and dry, and keep being honest, and you will be fine.


Ago, I sure do get that. I think I had to be with someone who was strong enough and secure enough to not think it was the end of the world when I was having a hard time.

XOX
GL

Still Waters

You're doing a lot better than me, I'm wondering if I can become a nun at my age

ToughChoices

Exactly, GL!
Detached.
Or maybe it just feels like detachment because I'm so used to absolute ENMESHMENT!
Last night I realized that, while I had a good time with him, I wanted to go home, and it took me a bit of processing to figure out that I could just SAY that (gently, of course) and DO it.
Cause, he wasn't giving me the "go home" vibe, and I thought, "is it inconsiderate of me to want to leave - what if I hurt his feelings?" But I realized that it's not my job to take care of his feelings, it's my job to take care of my own! So I did. And, you know what? He didn't shed a single tear, or try to manipulate me into staying or anything of the sort!
I could get used to this emotional health stuff!

The man that I am seeing really appears to have all of these qualities save, possibly, one. He is DOGGED in pursuit - and I can't tell if it's a sign of codependence or just that he really likes me. I'm aware that I may be hyper-sensitive on this issue. He calls me each evening to say goodnight and this morning he sent me a text to say "Good Morning", wish me luck on my test, and tell me that he was thinking of me. All very nice, to be sure, but I am NOT used to it.

Is this clingy or normal?

Freedom1990

Bingo! That was my experience too, with one fellow in particular. Actually he had been driving up about 50 miles to our local AA group. He was very personable, had a few years in AA.

I had even talked to my sponsor ahead of time, because like you, it had always been that 0-100 mph thing, you know? It wasn't that way for a change!

Anyway, to make a long story short, we all started seeing the signs at meetings that he was starting to slide in his program, eventually he went back to drinking, and that was the end of that.

He called me a few times while he was 'out there', and to be honest, it made my skin crawl. There was no need to 'fix' him, just a need to cut the conversation short, and he quit calling after a couple of phone calls.

At least I know now that I have definitely grown and am no longer the needy codependent I used to be, and I feel really good about that.

Ago

I don't know, since I've never dated a man, whether or not it's clingy or normal, but as the man, traditionally it's our "role" to pursue.

There is no such thing as "instant intimacy" but it's my feeling, if you go slow and take your time, it will become apparent whether he is clingy or just "in pursuit", or whether or not he is just a really nice guy and this sort of attention will continue even after you get involved.

You need to decide whether or not you like this level of attention IMO, also, by taking it slow, you will discover whether this level of attention will continue, or whether it's just part of "The Pursuit"

When I initially got sober, when I had just a few months of sobriety, my GF of the time left me for another man, one who offered her a house and a Porsche, who offered her everything she had ever wanted in a relationship.

Six months later she was back....walking by the edge of my vision repeatedly to "get my attention" yooo hooo /flirt flirt wink wink

We got back together, and I asked her why she left "Mr. Perfect"

She said it was as simple as when they were cooking together, he didn't nuzzle her neck, and "play" and "flirt" like I did while we cooked together, even after being in a relationship for years.

This sounds silly, but she said "Andrew, he has NEVER pinched my bottom. not once. EVER."

That was her "deal breaker"

He was emotionally distant for her.

I have no doubt he went on make some woman deliriously happy.

Just not her.

She got lonely...."Mr Perfect" was great for "outside stuff" but didn't fulfill her "inside needs"

Now it's my experience, that we do all have different needs, but I need a Gal that wants to cuddle, that likes attention, I am pretty touchy feely, I don't want to exactly "make out" in public per se, but I need a woman that's comfortable holding hands, that likes the attention I like to give.

I actually think that was one of the difficulties with my last relationship, she thought that was what she wanted, but I think that the fact she had never had a relationship last longer then a few months in her entire life, made her more aloof, more independent, I observed to her a few times that I thought she would have been a lot happier with an emotionally distant guy that just called once or twice a week, and only saw her that often as well. I didn't mean it badly at all, I really think that would work a lot better for her.

We just had different ideas about what being in a relationship entailed, she said I suffered from "chronic disclosure" and she felt her life should remain private, and that omission, evasion and outright lying were acceptable relationship practices, whereas these things sent me around the bend.

Had she been in a relationship with a man that just didn't care about these things, and liked a bit more distance, it's my opinion they wouldn't have fought like she and I did.

If he didn't ask, she wouldn't lie. I think if she would have been in a relationship with a man, with a "typical" male, for whom intimacy isn't really a priority, it wouldn't have brought out her character defects so harshly, which in turn brought out my character defects.

Sponsoring dozens and dozens of men have made my "lie sniffer" incredibly acute, lie to me and every alarm I have in the world goes off, hang on to that lie, and we have problems.

BIG problems.

Personally, for me, I like a higher level of intimacy and more physical contact, and I don't necessarily mean more sex, I just like physical contact, from holding hands at a movie, to cuddling on the couch, to flirting in the kitchen.

I also like emotional "intimacy" where we can and do tell each other the truth, this is absolutely one of the things I look for in a relationship. I need to be with someone who also has the ability and desire to tell the truth and not lie to me constantly.

Different people have different needs, i personally don't think either is "wrong" but it helps if I date a woman who is comfortable with being chased around the kitchen while we cook, even after we have been together for years, and who doesn't mind "making out" when we have a nice evening at home.

So it helps dating someone who likes what I like, who is comfortable with physical and emotional intimacy, and not try to put a square peg in a round hole, taking it slowly allows us to discover these truths about each other, to find somebody who is a good "fit".

anyhow, just some coffee inspired observations, gotta go, TTFN

GiveLove

Indeedy, only time will tell if his "dogged pursuit" is something that is attractive or acceptable to you here on ToughChoices TV. Stay tuned to your radar. You'll know if & when it becomes tiresome, worrisome, or objectionable. You'll feel it in the pit of your stomach when you see another message from him (which is, by the way, how I know when to "fire" clients....if my stomach sinks when I see an email from them in my inbox.....) As Ago says, sometimes this is just hard-wired into some men. You might flip it around and ask, how would you feel if he WEREN'T this interested? Better? Worse? Healthy still?

You already know somewhere inside you whether you think he's overdoing it - or, most importantly, whether he's ignoring your (hopefully) clear signals that you're not ready for that right now, not even quite divorced yet, still a bit uprooted emotionally.

And you'll know if you want to venture a chat with him about it, ask him to back off, find common ground on it ("I'm not really ready for this much attention.....how about if we do THIS instead"), etc. That moment may be now, or it might not.

Trust your stomach. Always works for me

good_luck

Funny!

I have recently found myself beginning what seems to be a healthy relationship as well! It's hilarious because, as these things go, I had just given up on the whole thing, because I just found being "alone" so relaxing and wonderful I had real trouble picturing what on earth would make me give it up.

And then...I met someone who I respect, and think is amazing, and he seems to think similar things about me. It's simple. It's sane. And it just makes sense. It's so strange!

Oh, I like this. I am just so comfortable. I want this, and I want it not to get messed up, but it just doesn't feel dangerous. He's just someone that I want in my life. That's it, and I will give it my best shot. If it doesn't work, well, then it doesn't work. Sometimes things just don't.

I will say that I have had to pause a few times because I am perplexed at this new way of being romantic. I have dated so many manipulative, broken people, that I have to remind myself that the lack of insane "I NEED YOU" obsessive compliments (before he even knows me) is a good thing.

ok! wait. I know what I wanted to write. I have found myself with someone whose actions are perfect, and I was used to words. I mean, of course there are words, but there isn't the huge, empty talk that has been the hallmark of previous relationships.

ANYWAY -- (you'll have to excuse me, because even sane romance makes me dizzy and flustered) I hope all of us get to have relationships like this, and can recognize them as good things.

xoxoxoxoxo

baileyboop

I just wanted to write that I found this thread very inspiring. I have been divorced for 6 months now, and I am certainly not ready to date at this point. I am still rediscovering who I am now that the tornado has left my area. I have my days when I feel lonely, but I am trying to learn not to make quick emotional decisions. I am learning that those emotions often change, and I return to be happy where I am fairly quickly. I am hopeful that all the work I am doing now will have a future healthy return. I am excited to see you guys that have made progress in this avenue and gives me hope. Thanks for sharing.

TakingCharge999

Thanks GiveLove for the Healthy Relationship journal idea. I will start one today!

And thanks TC for this thread, it is great, I am glad you are doing well.

Just yesterday I went out with a blue-eyed guy I just met . He is younger than me, damn, LOL but he is nice. Great to feel nervous once again! He is very good looking. It gave me an ego boost to go out with him, I would have considered him out of my league. We have very important things in common and made plans for the future, like share books, go to a posh restaurant, watch movies, etc. Wow. He knows life OUTSIDE bars!! o_O And he believes in God and likes self improvement...

It is great to make a new friend. And to be honest, very honest, from the start.

I also went out with someone else I already knew, and had the time of my life. It was wonderful to feel respected, cherished, taken care of. I now realize how unhealthy I have been up to now, when normal stuff feels so strange to me. When someone being nice to me feels strange. Wow!! o_O

Its a new world out there and so far it is GREAT!

Its so true that you attract similar people. It is no coindence that when we are healthier, the people that we choose to be around are healthier too. It is so great to feel motivated by who you are with, not dragged down, to be able to be yourself and also to be able to share with others what you have learned. All this madness has its purpose. I feel so grateful for being out of hell and being able to choose who I spend my time with!!