mermaidgirl

I have posted but one time before here, and my quick story is I am in a second marriage (6 years) to a supposedly recovering alcoholic. I say supposedly because although he has been dry for 4-1/2 years, he exhibits behavior as if he were an alcoholic. My AH has a problem telling me the truth on many things at many levels. I have done detachment, am currently in counseling for my OWN issues which has helped dramatically and attend Al-Anon as much as possible.

I do not fix things to the extent I used to and leave my AH to figure things out on his own and resist my old urge to just "get 'her done".

But, as much as my recovery is going really great, his continued deceitfulness effects me. He cannot handle money-and I noticed this from when we were dating. I figured it was because he didn't have any money-but now he is gainfully employed and simply doesn't write things down in his checkbook, overdraws regularly and without anyone else to draw money from-it becomes my problem.

I suggested this morning to him that this doesn't sound like part of recovery to me-and thought that being responsible for the things you can be is part of the motto. His only defense is he says he is lazy. Wow.

Any comments, critiques and hugs would be appreciated!!

Freedom1990

Sometimes we don't like the answers that we get.

This may be as good as it is ever going to get with him.

I like what Dr. Phil says about the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. You say he's been 'dry' for 4 1/2 years but still exhibits many alcoholic behaviors. That doesn't sound promising for any changes on his behalf. You've had 4 1/2 years of the same old same old.

What do you want out of life? Can you live with the way things currently are for the rest of your life (you don't have to answer me, just food for thought)? It's obvious he's content with the way things are, at least on his part.

Still Waters

It won't get better. That's has been my experience anyway.

If he won't get help through AA or another program, he will just continue to be the lying miserable person he is now.

The alcohol might be gone, but the insanity remains, all of it. It's a very frustrating thing mermaidgirl, I know. It was impossible for me to continue to live with.

My boundary was crossed when I asked him again, in front of a counselor, to get help via a counselor for himself - and he refused since there is nothing wrong with him.

Well, if there isn't anything wrong with him, then it IS me in that I cannot live with what I see to be as insanity. So, I left.

My counselor asked me, what are you going to do? I did what I had to do, and I'm glad I did.

I don't have any advice for you, sorry. Big big big hugs though, it's a horrid way to live.

freya

I heard an Al Anon speaker once, who was a "double winner" (member of both AA and Al Anon). She had met her husband a few years after they had both stopped drinking. After they had been married awhile, her husband stopped going to meetings, and, over the course of the next several years, slipped further and further into a serious dry drunk state. At her sponsor's, suggestion, she started attending Al Anon. A few more years down the road, he began to drink again.

Although she was working a strong program, living with an active A was really getting to her. She said she kept on asking her sponsor: "What's wrong with me? I'm working both of my programs as hard as I can; Why am I not healthy enough to live/deal with this?" Rather than answering her, her sponsor told her she needed to ask her HP that question. So, she began to pray and mediate upon that question.

The answer she eventually got from her HP was: "It's not that you're not healthy enough to live and deal with an active A; it's that you're too healthy."

I'm guessing you can probably figure out the end of that story!

freya

tallulah

My ex has been in and out of AA for years (according to him). He has been sober for over two years. Attending two meetings a week. Got a sponsor. On paper it all looks good.

And still he was and no doubt still is... manipulative, deceitful, nasty, violent, angry, insular, dismissive, egotistical, cold etc etc etc. Completely incapable of participating in an adult relationship and completely incapable of love.

The time he has been in recovery imho has served to stop him cracking open a bottle but it certainly hasn't brought about sobriety or self awareness or discovery. Now I could get upset that I was duped.. but the only person he is kidding is himself.

Your situation sounds very familiar.. Hugs to you :ghug

mermaidgirl

You are all so generous in your responses...I know you have posted similar ones of encouragement to others.

I have a feeling I am getting to be too healther-what an oxymoron! But nonetheless, I have been patient-and by all means not perfect, but willing to change and have changed. AH even said the other day when I was silent about a rant he was going on about his boss that "you always have a response"...and I simply said that maybe in the old days I did, but not anymore because you don't like it when I verbalize and you don't like it when I am silent, I just AM anymore. No way to live in my opinion.

For now, I will be laying the foundation to see what I have to do to get out of this unscathed financially. I think 4-1/2 years of patience, love, acceptance of what I didn't know about him along with helping him raise his 3is proof that I was at least committed. My son graduates high school in May and I vowed to myself not to do anything until he is settled in his dorm in August. Then...I will re-evaluate at that time and do what I need to do. This is all so sad...but I cannot change him and I refuse to live this way.

Incidentally, he is in private counseling-new counseling that he really likes but if he were serious about his committement we wouldn't be dealing with this right now-and he knows it.

tommyk

I think when any of us refer to a recovering alcoholic as a 'dry drunk' we are saying that the person might as well drink... there is no difference in his/her behavior.

And so a lot of recovering alcoholics start drinking again.

And THEN you see some definite unacceptable behavior.

Please try not to insult a recovering alcoholic.

Just my opinion.

GiveLove

I find "dry drunk" a perfectly acceptable -- and extremely common -- term for a recovering alcoholic who is continuing to maintain the traits he carried when he was drinking. Which is the case here - lying, irresponsibility, et al. People don't come to F&FA to be chastised for their use of language.

End of pissy moment.

Here's a hug, mermaidgirl:

:ghug3

Is there a local class (maybe at the adult extension, free university, or cc) on money management for the compleat idiot?

Does he know that this might end your marriage? Is he willing to be un-lazy in order to save it?

ReadyToHelp

Mermaid,

You must realize one important thing. You are growing in different directions. Although you both are recovering, you are making progress and holding on to your sobriety and he is not.

It's okay to "leave them where they are".

I envision myself walking away from my ABF and looking back, wanting to reach out to him, as I walk away, but constantly looking back. That takes my eyes off of what's in front of me.

Your situation is very sensitive. Your accomplishment cannot be attached to his! You owe him nothing, even though you both are recovering. Listen to that tiny voice inside that got you out of the addiciton. It's the one that's telling you what's right for you. You know deep in your heart.

I only recently allowed myself to admit that I do not want to live with my ABF anymore. It was hard, but I did it. The next step will happen when I am ready to deal with him leaving - whatever that may entail. He may very well pack up quietly and leave.

You are hugged. You are blessed. You are so blessed to have found your way, and be strong enough to know that your situation doesn't seem right.

Good luck!!

freya

When I refer to someone as a "dry drunk" I mean only that that person is behaving alcoholically, without drinking. There is no implication whatsoever about whether or not that person "might as well" drink.

And this is just my opinion --- my opinion based upon having had the very dubious pleasure of living with a dry drunk for several years. But, believe me, I've seen all the "definite unacceptable behavior" I intend to stick around to see....the lying, the cheating, the staying out all night, the hooking-up with all manner of "lower companions," the acting out of other addictive behaviors, etc...etc...etc...

Actually, the more I think about this, the more I find it dismissive of the horrendous, painful and confusing experience of living with a dry drunk and also insulting to the recoveries of alcoholics who are really working them, to expect anyone to believe for 1 second that this package of BS behaviors is not part-and-parcel of alcoholism unrestrained by a program of recovery....and, that it is somehow "wrong" to have and/or use a phrase that refers to the alcoholic who continues to (or resumes) manifest these behaviors despite the fact that he/she is not drinking.

And, just for the record, when I speak the truth -- this truth or any other -- I am not insulting anyone. If it is inconvenient and/or painful for someone to have the truth spoken of him/herself, then the solution to that problem is for that person to change his/her behavior so that, when the truth is spoken of him/her in the future, that truth is such that he/she doesn't have to feel embarrassed/ashamed/insulted by it. Really, this is not rocket science here -- don't be a jerk and then you (general 'you') don't have to worry about people going around saying you're a jerk!!!!!

Furthermore, if someone chooses to drink rather than change their behavior, that is that person's choice and that person's responsibility entirely. I do not have the power to make someone to drink or to keep someone from drinking.

Finally, as far as I'm concerned any truly recovering alcoholic is, by definition, not a dry drunk. A dry drunk is someone who is not drinking, but not recovering either....and, to me, the truly insulting thing would be to include those who are sincerely working programs of recovery in the same conceptual category as those who are not drinking but are doing nothing to address all of the other behavioral manifestations of alcoholism.

Tommy, you are, of course, free to do that if you want; Me, I'll pass.

freya

naive

tommy-

i'm wondering what term i could use other than "dry drunk"? it's handy, because we all understand what it means, but i could see how it could be offensive....

naive

Freedom1990

Sounds like a plan to me! I've got a granddaughter graduating from 8th grade in May. Where the heck does time go??!!!!

Hang in there, and keep posting, okay? :ghug :ghug

Freedom1990

I'm a recovering alcoholic as well as a codependent, and I don't find the term offensive at all.

tallulah

I understand the term is used with some kind of derogatory undertone in the rooms of AA. Well that's their schtick.

If someone is dry (not drinking) and exhibiting the behaviours associated with alcoholism and the alcoholic then what would you have someone call them? I suppose, if we're talking semantics, the best thing to call them is simply an alcoholic. Because whether they are sober or smashed that is what they are.

And I have to take issue with you on the comment about recovering alcoholics drinking again and then seeing unacceptable behaviour.

Rubbish.. you will see alot of posts from people whose OHs are not drinking and in recovery and yet the madness continues and gets worse. In my case the A was over two years sober, in AA and sponsored and he still managed to display some pretty reprehensible behaviour. In fact his 'recovery' left me in hospital. Recovery is more than not picking up a drink. So if an alcoholic stops drinking and goes through the motions yet never achieves sobriety then.. I'm sorry.. they are not recovering.

But as you said.. just my opinion.

Ann

Dry Drunk is an acceptable phrase in this forum, and simply describes the behaviour of someone who has put down the drink but not the behaviour.

Please let's not turn this into a debate.

Let's all get back to supporting Mermaidgirl with our experience strength and hope.

Thanks gang.

Hugs

MissFixit

I don't think all recovering alcoholics are "dry drunks." However some former actively drinking alcoholics are "dry", not drinking but still lying, manipulating, negative, angry, blaming, etc...

Recovered alcoholics seem to be "spiritually" recovered as well. They are humble, honest and make/made amends. Dry drunks (IMHO) are not at that same level. I honestly would not call a recovered alcoholic a dry drunk. To me they are two separate state of minds, levels of sobriety/awareness/etc..

doorknob

Maybe it has nothing to do with alcohol addiction. A person doesn't need to be chemically dependent to be dishonest or unorganized.

MissFixit

Can you separate finances?

Freedom1990

Good point. Sometimes alcoholism gets too much credit.

Ann

*Ahem*

Dry Drunk is an acceptable phrase in this forum, and simply describes the behaviour of someone who has put down the drink but not the behaviour.

Please let's not turn this into a debate.

Let's all get back to supporting Mermaidgirl with our experience strength and hope.

Thanks gang.

Hugs