silkspin

Not trying to figure things out for my AH, but have a question about my side in this.
I know his real friends will still accept him if he doesn't drink, but I have doubts that AH can accept HIMSELF if he doesn't drink. He has never liked feeling like the odd man out, and although in AA and sober for 3 months, he has still expressed that as an issue. I know that's his issue alone, but it affects me because although we've moved to a new city, we will inevitably be visiting with our friends or seeing new ones. How do I navigate these kinds of issues from my perspective? For example, we're going back to pack our house up (just sold) and I had an idea it would be a perfect time to invite some friends for a goodbye party. And for me that would be a bbq, some poker and laughs and a glass or 2 of wine. My Al Anon school of thought says "I want to have a party. How he behaves is not my problem". The other part of my says that I should be sympathetic to the fact that I may be setting up a difficult situation for someone. Of course he'll have to face this type of reality at some point when we get invited to something, but it wouldn't be me setting it up. If he drinks at someone else's function I always have the power to leave, but what would happen if I throw a party and he ends up doing it? How can I set up some boundaries that would allow me to do this and have a good time? Is there a way to be sensitive to him AND being able to live my life as I wish?

GiveLove

Are you two able to talk about this? You speak as though the two of you are in separate worlds (which I suppose you are in a certain way) but....can't you ask HIM how he would feel about this?

You may want to talk about the upside and downside of such an event, what your fears are, what your boundaries are. If you sense that he would NOT find such an event easy to navigate, it will be your decision together to maybe try some other way to celebrate. Meeting a few people for dinner, etc.

A poker party with a lot of triggers and a lot of drinking happening all around is -- personally -- not something I would plan at my home with an alcoholic in early recovery. Sure, it's al-anon, "his problem," etc., but also sounds like a recipe for failure. But that's just me. You and your husband should be able to figure this out if you can be a team and put your heads together.

Good luck

silkspin

These are all exactly my concerns. I want to talk to him about it but wanted some support and guidance from all the sages here first!
I don't want to create an environment of triggers for him, and because we're so new with recovery I'm just trying to find my way and my comfort level with a redefined life. I also somewhat fear a conversation like that with him as when he was just trying to 'cut down' before recovery,we'd do that before a function but he'd never be able to keep from getting drunk. I wonder if it's better to just not say or do anything at all, but then am I'm automatically making a decision for him?
I guess this touches on a bigger topic that I brought up with my al anon group last week - that I don't know what is healthy behaviour in a relationship. I didn't have good examples, and our relationship was based on a codie me, and a drinking him. I find sometimes I want to discuss something with him, but then question my motives. So I'm suffering from self-doubt. I'd like to ask him if he's willing to go to marriage counseling, because in addition to learning recovery principles, I need to relearn how to communicate and interact with him without ever going back to what was before. So this particular situation is just my first hurdle with this.

GiveLove

Counseling can be a wonderful thing if you are planning to stay together and want to work on yourselves to become stronger, wiser partners. And it can help you to reset your "normal" and get great feedback on what a healthy relationship looks like. I know...it's hard when you've never had that modeled for you. I didn't.

Communication is so key. It took me years to learn how to sit down and have a healthy, open, fearless conversation about things like this! Once you're able to have your first nonthreatening, nonjudgmental problem-solving conversation (maybe this one) where you act together as a team to work through something, you feel so proud of yourself "Me versus you" becomes "Us versus (insert challenge)" It's really kind of a rush.

Freedom1990

There is a chapter in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous entitled "To The Wives". You might want to give that a read if your Alanon group hasn't already suggested that.

silkspin

Thanks Freedom - read it in Dec when AH brought the book home; will see if I can get a hold of it again and review.

jaguarpcb

Silk, I know exactly how you are feeling. In the past when my hubby was trying to control his drinking we couldn't talk about it, that would make him think about it more, crave it more, he preferred to just pretended alcohol didn't even exist. Of course, we all know how successful that kind of thinking is.

Now that he's in recovery it's all very different. He's OK talking about it now, has been since his first day sober. We had a party to go to at my work that week where there would be a lot of drinking (thanks to mandatory karaoke...blech), and I would be drinking (cuz I don't do karaoke)....so we talked about it....he brought a book, and I left my computer on in my cubicle so if it was getting to be too much he could just go hang out in my cubicle until I'd put in enough of an appearance and then we could go home. We were able to talk about it and come up with a plan, and he was able to decide what he was OK with and what he wasn't.

So now we just talk about it. I still get that self doubt though. Every time I have something to talk to him about, whether it's alcohol related or not, I get all freaked out. I'm terrified that I'll be perceived as a nag, that he'll think I'm mothering him, that he'll think I'm being unfair in my perception of something.

I've found over the years, and even more so since he quit drinking, that it's always ten times worse in my head than in real life. I build it up and think of every worst possible outcome, convincing myself that that's the way it's going to go....when in reality it never goes to that worst place.

I'd say talk to him, discuss your ideas for what you want to do when you go back to pack the house, discuss options for that party, maybe tell everyone it's an alcohol free party , discuss an escape plan for him. Or, if he really feels like it's too much at all, then that's something you can talk about too.

But don't assume that it's too much. Let him decide what's too much and what isn't, and feel free to set your own boundaries too. Everyone is different. For my husband he's decided he's done with it and that's that. What other people do or don't do, in his presence or not, doesn't affect that. For other people they can't even have mouthwash in the house, and can't go to restaurants that serve alcohol, it's too much for them. Let your husband decide where he fits in that spectrum.

laurie6781

Here you go, it's on line:

http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_bigbook_chapt8.pdf

Now, I would suggest for both of you that you NOT have a party with alcohol being served. This man is trying. This man has 3 months in recovery. It is way too soon to be putting himself in situations where alcohyl is.

Oh you can talk with him, and I am sure that becusue at this stage of recovery he 'feels' like he is walking on egg shells he will probably tell you "oh it's OK I can handle it, blah blah blah". Personally, knowing what I know as an alcoholic in recovery for a very long time, and a codie in recovery for a very long time, I would NOT have a party with alcohol being served.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

silkspin

Thanks everyone, good food for thought. I could always try an alcohol-free event but I think that would make him feel very self-conscious. I'm not too concerned about having a party; it was an idea that passed through my thoughts because we'll be back for the move. I think I will just let it go and we'll try to see some friends for dinner or they can pop in while we're packing.
It was more about the feelings and thoughts that the party brought up in me - and how to deal with social situations in general as he remains sober. Judi, your post sounds like me. We're both navigating new territory, and because I'm now so much more aware of my behaviour I worry about how I will come across if I talk to him, especially about sensitive subjects. It's tough going, but in the end, better than dysfunction.

kj3880

Why would that be awkward? Lots and lots of parties don't serve alcohol. It is very common. You can have a delicious coffee bar with all types of teas and coffees if you want a nice option...
KJ

MissFixit

I am from the South and we serve iced tea at many meals. No booze when i was growing up at home.

silkspin

I think it would be awkward because, until I started to realize he had issues with alcohol, it was at every party we had, that was a night-time event. We've had dinners and afternoon bbq's, games nights etc where we haven't served, but otherwise everyone always shows up with booze (also a particular group of his friends that don't have kids). So there would no doubt be at least a question about it and I think he'd feel that he'd have to explain himself. Iced tea is a great idea. Also, because only a few of his friends know his problem, others have always seen him as the 'party guy' and give him booze gifts etc. So wouldn't want to put him on the spot either. I think a toned-down dinner type thing would be best.

MissFixit

Silkspin,

A normal, non-alcoholic dinner with tea, water or fizzy water seems pretty healthy to me. You can actually talk and remember conversation. No one walks away with a hangover. Maybe if friends bring alcohol, you could keep it in the kitchen and give it to them as they leave, or just ask them not to bring anything.

Miss

jaguarpcb

I still think you should talk to him. I know it's uncomfortable, and I know it's not easy, but it's not very fair to him for you to just assume that it's a problem and you better just not bring it up at all. Maybe he would be fine with it. Maybe he would welcome the opportunity to let all of his friends know that he's quit drinking. Maybe it wouldn't bother him as much as you fear it would.

My husband talks about not wanting to go into details with everyone, but he has no problem telling people he's quit drinking, and if they ask about it he'll actually talk quite a bit, so he's not as uncomfortable with the subject as he thinks he is, lol. Maybe your husband will feel the same way. And, again, as uncomfortable as he was talking about it with me in the "cutting down" days, he has no problem talking about it now. It's not a constant topic of conversation, but every once in a while I ask how he's doing, and we talk about it for a bit.

If you bring it up and he's uncomfortable, you can sense that it's not going to be a good conversation, then drop it. But don't avoid such an important conversation because you are afraid he might react badly to it.

silkspin

You make a good point Judi. Inevitably the conversation has to be had because life and functions/parties/weddings/bbq's etc will happen. He and we will have to face it at some point.

He has told his closest friends that he has stopped drinking, but I'm not sure he's told them about AA. More like he's been doing it too much, getting tired of what it brings, time to grow up. That's ok, whatever works. No one has to know more than what he's willing to tell them. But he has expressed to me his feelings of loss with drinking cuz it's been his 'friend' for so long, and that he will undoubtedly have a tough time with patio weather coming. He envies 'normal' drinkers and wants to be one, a sign that he's still in early recovery and in a bit of denial. He very much associates his social life and his friends with drinking, even though those things are mutually exclusive. But if he's serious about recovery then he will have to learn new ways of interacting and with other people's drinking. He has to see that it's HIS way of interacting with them, not necessarily the reverse. He did confide in me a few weeks back that through an AA meeting he's started to realize that his drinking is different from others, and that will be a good step towards redefining himself with alcohol. His friends wouldn't have a problem with a sober him; he just feels that as soon as a social situation happens, he needs a drink. Totally in his head!

respektingme

When my AH was active and attending AA, I worried about the same thing. And once during a trip back to his hometown, I told one of my best friends that he was an alcoholic. Why? Because I knew we'd be going to her house and she is married to his best friend, and they always serve booze. Because they didn't serve booze, my AH suspected his best friend knew and asked him. The truth came out that he knew, and my AH was more ticked at me than any other time I think in our 16 years of marriage.

Last year, he had a class reunion. He went alone and told everyone that he's an alcoholic.

Big difference. Changes in him had nothing to do with me. My interference didn't help. If he wants to drink, he will. If he doesn't, he can arrange it so that he doesn't, like telling everyone at a party who he's chatting with that he's an alcoholic. Makes it a little harder to drink in public, once you've talked openly about it. Anyway, I don't go out of my way to sabotage his drinking, like having a stocked bar in the house or hosting drinking parties at our house. At the same time, I can't control the environments he's in. He has to own his sobriety and be willing to defend it at all costs. Hope that helps.

jaguarpcb

That's just going to take time. As an ex-smoker I know exactly what he's going through. It took me a long time to be able to have a beer without desperately wanting a cigarette with it. In the afternoons at work when I'm either bored or working very hard at a complicated project, I have intense cravings, because smoke breaks were always a great way to break up my afternoon. Because my first cigarette of the day would be when I got out of the shower in the morning, I often have cravings then. When I'm around smokers I long for it, and have caught myself staring longingly at someones pack of cigarettes, or even their lit cigarette. I inhale deeply when I walk through a cloud of freshly exhaled smoke. I may not have a problem drinking, but I understand addiction, and I understand missing your vice. I have at least one craving a day where I can almost taste the smoke in my mouth.

But I haven't had a single puff in 2 years. Not one. And it hasn't been hard....one might think that the fact that I still have frequent cravings would make it hard. It doesn't. I made up my mind to quit smoking, I did what it took to quit, and now I'm done. That decision makes all the rest of it easy....I don't smoke anymore, therefore, as much as I crave them, I know I won't smoke, so there really isn't a temptation. I've never even come close to asking for one.

My husband experienced the same resolve when he quit smoking, and now with the drinking. He's done. He will not drink again. He misses it, and will miss it even more as summer comes along, but he's done. Therefore being around it isn't much of a problem. Now, sobriety is still new for him, so it's a bit harder than cigarettes just yet, but it will get easier. He'll probably always miss it though. But that's absolutely normal when you stop doing something that you've done for so long. It is like losing a friend. If he wants to stay sober he'll have to learn ways of dealing with that.

Ago

"Sober Parties" were strange and awkward for me "in the beginning"

Then they became "the norm"

Food is good, conversation is good.

Like everything else, they take practice.

As time went on, I will go to "get togethers" now, and there will be a bottle of wine in the kitchen, but the number of people not drinking outnumber the people drinking, the people drinking will have a glass or two of wine, if that, and no one really cares.

My "normal" changed over the years, but, like everything else, it took practice. Drunken gatherings masquerading as "social events" slowly stopped being part of my life as the people in my life changed as I changed.

Now drinking events are strange, uncomfortable and awkward to me.

It just takes time, communication, and navigation.

Be gentle with yourself and him, and communicate a lot...it will work out.

silkspin

Well said. As I've left him to his own recovery, I don't know where he is with that, or if he is at all, but it's up to him.

Ago, your post is RIGHT ON THE MONEY. Our get togethers in recent times have less about booze and more about the food, the friends, the conversation....except for him. So where everyone would be chatting, sipping wine, he'd be getting drunk. From my perspective he's the one who didn't fit in anymore with heavy drinking, and back in my codie days I'd point it out. I'd ask if he'd rather get wasted and pass out at 11pm or take it easy and be able to enjoy his friend's company long into the evening. Of course now I see how it didn't matter. So as I said it's his perception that will make the difference for him, and yes, practice.

Judi, I was only a social smoker and quit the day I found out I was pregnant (2 yrs ago), but I do get that 'tug' sometimes. I suppose if I imagine that x 100 I may feel how he feels and can be sympathetic.

The key is that I have to communicate with him, and right now that scares me to death. He is new and fragile in his recovery, I'm a recovering codie, and I really worry about how to approach this, and him in general. Especially since we've been in separate rooms for 3 months, I feel even a greater divide than before, and bridging it in a healthy way is something that I'll have to approach with caution. Throughout his drinking days we became strangers, and now these new people are different, and will change constantly as we recover.

jaguarpcb

Is there any chance the two of you could attend couples counseling? It sounds like you might benefit from having some guidance. I'd recommend trying to find someone who is well versed in alcoholism and codependency so they can help you navigate all of the gunk that goes with it.

Big hugs! Be gentle with yourself, and don't expect to have it all figured out already. It's a new world we're all walking into, and it takes time to learn your surroundings and how to deal.