Lots of quacking going on...
 

I am happy to report that my AH has not drank for 6 weeks. That is the end of my good news, though.

He has been very angry, volatile, argumentative, etc. Just plain difficult to be around. Not everyday though. There are some days mixed in where he seems to be the person I married. Happy, easygoing, fun...The thing is, you just never know what you will wake up to. If he is in a bad mood, it is immediately apparent. If he is in a good mood, things are great, BUT, I am constantly walking on eggshells because it could change at any given moment.

I am sure many of you will jump all over me and say I need to quit focusing on him and start focusing on me, but I am going to say this anyway. Here is my theory...

I think AH is depressed, or maybe even bipolar. I think that is a big part of his drinking. I have been researching this and from what I understand, alcoholics are often drinking to soothe themselves of other problems. The alcoholism is a result of another issue. Now, AH truly likes to drink. So, even if he was not depressed or had no other issues, I do believe he would still drink. He loves to drink! However, I wonder if it would be at this level. He definitely is NOT one to drink everyday and never really has.

I know I need to work on myself and quit trying to figure him out. I am tossing the idea of divorce around. However, I do not want to rush into something and break up my family if he can be treated for this. Now, if only I can get him to open up to the idea of seeing a doctor...

I won't "jump all over you." Instead I will share that no amount of focusing on him made my life better. I thought I knew what I wanted, and it all depended on him doing something or not doing something. He quit drinking. Isn't that what you wanted? No? Now you want something else?

You can have all the "theories" in the world about what makes him tick and how you can control the outcome of his life, but until you start looking inside yourself, nothing will work. That's my ESH.

L

I predicted responses like these. But, I disagree. As his wife, his life partner, his friend, how do I ignore all of these obvious signs that there is definitely something wrong with him? He is not functioning normal. I have been with this man for almost 15 years. I know him. I know he is not well. How can you all just tell me to ignore this, walk away from him, and get a life? It seems so selfish to not try to help when someone is suffering, especially when it is your own spouse.

And, not once have I ever thought that if he were to quit drinking, all would be well. Well, maybe I thought that a few years ago, but not anymore. My eyes are open. I know there is more to our problems than drinking.

From the little I know of what alcoholics are like when the begin sobriety, this sounds pretty normal. So is there something else behind the alcholism or the current behaviors? Maybe, maybe not. Is he going to AA or someother treatment program? Is he in therapy? You can suggest either or both but you can't make he actively participate in either.

Check out this counselor's post just today on playing the victim. And also his most recent posts. Extremely useful information when one has an addict in one's life, I thought.

CLMI

My AH is the same sillysquirrel, I believe that there is some serious mental illness going on with him..that wasn't visible through the insanity of alcoholism. Once he got dry (not recovered) it became obvious.

You can only discuss it with him, and suggest he get help. Counseling, etc. He will, or he won't. With mine, he refused counseling saying there was nothing wrong with him, that it was all me. There was nothing I could do beyond that. And there won't be anything you can do if yours refuses, or refuses to be honest with the counselor.

I am with Barbara. The signs you describe are all classic "white knuckle" sobriety. Is he working AA?

I am no Dr and cannot rule out a medical diagnosis, but my experience is that AA and/or therapy can make a tremendous difference in the anger, volatility, etc.

sillysquirrel -

My XABF suffered from alcoholism, bulimia, depression, trauma from childhood incestuous molestation, and who knows what else. He was unhealthy on so many levels. One pathology may explain or contribute to another, but the point is all of these things were his battles. Alcoholism is often a symptom of something deeper that needs to be resolved within the person.

I don't know your story as I haven't read your others posts yet, but I would make the same suggestion as Barbara52. A program and/or therapy in addition to his sobriety are necessary. You cannot force them on him, though.

Good luck with everything.

Awesome link, thanks!

The neverending gravy train of discontent, aaah I know it well.....

If only this then that......

I've been on both sides of that eight ball

I will never forget the look on my GF's face (about 14 years ago) after I had quit drinking, smoking, I had turned into an anal neat freak around the house, changed my career, was working full time and taking 24 units at school, plus attending AA, going to therapy and couples couseling....all of these things at her strong suggestion....and it still wasn't enough, but she couldn't think of anything else for me to change.

Her head just......exploded...I mean literally....I will NEVER forget that moment in time, her mouth was opening and closing like a fish trying to breathe desperately trying to think of some new way it was my fault and I could improve myself....there was nothing left....

for years and years and years it was always one.more.thing.

Finally at that moment I said "enough...no more"

She left me shortly thereafter for a married man


Squirrel, as Dgillz stated these are "normal" symptoms for "white knuckle" sobriety in my experience

Cat,

I just read that article and a few others on that site. Very interesting.

Miss

Thanks for that link cat! There is a lot of great information in there.

Her head just......exploded...I mean literally....I will NEVER forget that moment in time, her mouth was opening and closing like a fish trying to breathe desperately trying to think of some new way it was my fault and I could improve myself....there was nothing left....

I am not her........

Sillysquirrel,

What do you want for your life? What kind of relationship do you want to have with him? What do you want from a partner?

Miss

sillysquirrel...........I get what you are saying. My AH is just a week behind yours with the no drinking thing. His moods vary as well. I've been attending Alanon and counseling which has been a huge help for me, but is a thorn in his side. He told me last week that if I still thought he was an alcoholic he may as well leave now. I showed him the door, but then he changed his tune and the quacking started.

My counselor asked me last week what my overall feeling was. The only thing I could think of was frustration......like a hamster in a wheel going nowhere. She assured me that I am making progress and that I won't be sitting on her couch having the same conversations a year from now. In fact, she said it is time to start making some concrete changes. Sadly, she said the prognosis of our marriage is poor when I don't have a willing partner. Mine won't go to counseling, AA, or even a doctor for a check-up. Heck, he lost a filling 2 months ago and won't even go to a dentist because he "can take care of it" himself.....huh?!

I just wanted to give you a (((hug))) and let you know that all these things you are questioning are valid, but in the end (as I'm sure you know) the only person we can really change is ourself. I don't know how feasable it is for you to get to counseling or Alanon, but it has been a lifesaver for me. Trust me, I didn't think I needed it and didn't want to go. I put it off for months, but in just a few weeks time I am starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel......with a few little blips along the way!

I was with mine for almost 20 years. I tried every way I could think of to fix him. I failed. He can only fix himself. Therapy was definited a lifesaver for me. One of the first things she told me is I needed to find a new project. I didn't want to hear that at the time, but she was so right.

No one is telling you to walk away. We are just telling you that you aren't powerful enough to fix him. Once you accept that, it's up to you to decide what to do about it.

L

We finally get to a point that we realize our hapiness is not contingent on whether or not the A in our lives is drinking, pulling a dry drunk, or being a royal pain. The addict owns their addiction. I own my choice to be happy or miserable.


These are the behaviors and responses of an active A and a codependent. Sorry, like it or not ... it's what it is.

To begin with, nobody here is jumping all over you. They disagree with you. They are telling you how they were dragged through hell and back by an active addict in their lives and how they reacted to it. And just how sick they got before they got better. What you may read as attacks .... well, I'm sorry if you do, but nobody here knows you personally, nor do they know your AH. They are telling you, based on their own life experiences, what happened. Take what you need and leave the rest.

That's all well and good, but his issues belong to him. Focusing on trying to figure him out doesn't get you further down the road to recovery. I'm not advocating you divorce him, react to him, leave him, or kick him out. I'm simply advocating that you quit worrying about what makes him tick - after all, he's the addict here - and spend some time on yourself.


So are you going to argue, convince, harrass, plead, beg, and move heaven and earth to get him to seek recovery? Threaten to walk out? Threaten divorce? Don't make any threat you don't intend to enforce. Why not just get out of his way and allow him the dignity of hitting his bottom, if he finds it.

If you know you need to work on yourself, then in the next breath you are trying to talk him into the idea of seeing a doctor, you are not tending to your own business. I've been married to TWO alcoholics. I learned from the school of hard knocks. But doggoned if I didn't finally get it through my thick skull that I had no business tending to the addict's business.

I had choices to make: stay, leave, or leave the addiction alone and live with it. Whatever gets us to a peaceful state and focused on ourselves.

While neither refuting nor supporting what anyone else has said, IMHO most alcoholics/addicts have fairly serious mood swings in their first year of sobriety, I would tread cautiously though in coming to an undeniable conclusion that he is bipolar.
I think that it is definitely something that you should consult with a psychiatrist/substance abuse counselor/mental health professional if it continues, however.

How can you all just tell me to ignore this, walk away from him, and get a life?

I don't see where anyone is telling you this.

Most of the posts I've read in response to your posts have been about trying to get YOU to see how focused on HIM you are. You can apply all the principles and advice that has been posted here without walking away from your husband.

The point is to get off his back! He's a grown man. If he doesn't think he has a problem and he doesn't want to change or ask for hep or treat his depression or whatever else you think he needs to do then you have to accept that and let it go.

I mean, go ahead, don't hold back, suggest that he do the research you are doing (you said you've been reading about his problems/symptoms), and go ahead and suggest he see a counselor etc. And as long as he is not hard of hearing, that's pretty much all you can do. Once is enough. Then it's up to him don't you think???

That's when the question comes around to you again-- what are you going to do? Whether I walked away from my marriage or not it was a mental shift I needed more than anything. As my mother said to me "Put down the magnifying glass and look in the mirror."

Now, my mother is one nutty codie, but what a mouthful of wisdom she spoke to me there when I was busy cataloguing, AGAIN, all that my exH needed to change about himself!!!

Easy does it---
peace and (((hugs)))
b

squirrel.

Yes sometimes we hear things we don't want to think may apply to us and we feel we are being "got at". I was much like that at first, as I believed I had spent nearly 19 years "helping and supporting" my abf and couldn't understand this detaching thing at all. I now know that the only thing I had helped and supported in all that time was, ALCOHOLISM.

Nothing I had said or done had help him get sober, at least not for long, nor did he go for counselling or professional help or do anything other than cease drinking for a while. Each time he began drinking again, the situation soon became worse than ever before and I became physically ill with stress angina and severe depression. He knew how bad it had affected me, but still kept on drinking.

Last year I finally got the message, had had enough and told him to drink himself to death if that was his aim, but he wasn't killing me as well. When he got ill from the drink, I left him to it. No loving care, no nursing him thru more withdrawals, nothing. It was so very, very hard to do that, but it resulted in him seeking help for himself at last.

This time, sobriety is different in that he is calmer, not a dry drunk as he'd been in past sober periods. He supported me recently when I was homeless and sleeping in a car for a month. He did all he was allowed to do for me in that time, with much care and love.

I am now in the same seniors complex as him and we spend hours together daily, share dinner at each other's unit and he has even dug up the tatty garden so I can have a nice one to live with. I thought all the hassles were behind me, but I had 3 weeks worrying about mum (97) and family in the recent Victorian bushfires, then we were threatened by a massive cyclone here at home.

Last Saturday night I had a massive angina attack, and really thought I was dying. Thank God for a sober and loving man, who rushed to my unit, called an ambulance and held me while we waited for it. He also was with me during the days after, going thru tests etc and was a tower of strength during this time.

When I thanked him for this, he just said fearing he'd lost me thru drink was bad enough, and the thought that his actions over the years had caused this angina made him sick. He says that if he'd been drinking and unable to help and I had died because of it, he would not be able to live with himself, and is so thankful that he chose to quit when he did.

I got out a while ago, and straight on to SR, as it keeps me on track and strong thru the support, advice and help of those who have been there and done that.

Without SR, I would not have come to know what I was doing wasn't helping, just enabling the alcohol to stay in command of us both. We would probably still have been in the same miserable situation and I would more than likely be dead by now.

I hope you can take note of the stories here, and begin to let YOU become number 1 in your life at last, after all your man has his DOC as his number 1. Maybe if he sees you taking care of yourself more, and not so focused on him and his behavior, he may seek some help for himself.

God bless

Hi Sillysquirrel,
My AH's mom has suffered depression in the past; I believe she's maintained a light dose of anti-depressants for years. Before we realized he was an A, he had a few depressive-type episodes, but never did anything about it. Late last year I brought it up to him again, and he went to see a doctor and had anti-depressants prescribed. Neither of us are really sure if the meds did anything, but now we've moved and the meds ran out and he's waiting to get his new health card to go see a dr. again. Point is, after my initial suggestion, I've stayed out of it. And will continue to do so. He's aware now, and the rest is up to him. He didn't like the 'idea' of meds, so in the end, even if he agrees with the diagnosis, he still may not take any steps. Out of my hands.
A friend from Al Anon whose husband became depressed (his dad was the A) did suggest a book called "I don't want to talk about it" (I think it's by Terrence Real?) about male depression. She recommended it solely for me to be informed and more compassionate if I felt AH suffered from D, but NOT for me to push him into anything.

I know what you mean about being a long-time partner with a person so wanting to help them. I am slowly learning the finer differences between having a healthy relationship and codie behaviours. It is subtle. Over these months, and with Al Anon, I have a 'healthy' concern for him. An example is when he complains about something. He'd say that some guy at work is a real deadbeat and not returning his calls on a time-sensitive thing. I'd say things like, yeah, the guy seems like an ass, why don't you send another email and copy his boss, or that if he doesn't respond by x, you'll move on and he'll lose his opportunity to voice his opinion. Seemed pretty innocent to me and he'd just say, yeah, I guess I could do that etc. I look back at simple situations like that and realize I was proposing solutions which took that power away from him. And I bet he wasn't asking me for any solution by sharing. So now, same situation, I say 'that's too bad you had a bad experience with this guy. How do you think you'll handle it?"
I feel better because I've acknowledged his issue, I'm sympathetic and listen. But, I'm still clearly on MY side of the line. I used the analogy of a soccer game to try to explain to my mom (who think I should fix him) - I can cheer him on from the sidelines, but I can't step onto the field and score his goals for him. You can support him in a way that still keeps you focussed on yourself. The 2 things aren't mutually exclusive.
I hope that helps. Do you go to Al Anon?

I had a similar experience as silkspin in that I encouraged my XABF to see a doctor.

Before I knew of any other problems, I found out that my XABF suffered from bulimia. I encouraged him to see a family physician, at the very least, to ensure that he was in good health. He did go to the doctor. At the time, he told me that he was prescribed the generic form of Prozac to help curb his urge. He kept this medicine in the cabient and took it daily. What he didn't tell me is that he also was prescribed Ambien to help him sleep. He kept this medicine in his night stand and doubled up on doses.

What is boils down to is that he used the doctor's visit as an opportunity to further practice unhealthy behaviors. He certainly did not tell his physician that he abused alcohol. Otherwise, he would have never been prescribed Prozac or Ambien. He was using the Ambien in addition to and as a substitution for drinking. I didn't find out he was on Ambien until four months after his first doctor visit, and it was not a pleasant experience for me.

Pharmaceutical treatment can certainly help, but I think it's also important to have some sort of counseling or therapy if there is indeed a mental health problem.

Hi, sillysquirrel.

This is how I felt:

I met, married, and started a family with a wonderful man - bright, funny, smart, loving, committed, open, etc....

Somewhere along the road that man started behaving differently. He was diagnosed with depression in our 5th year of marriage, then with bipolar disorder in our 6th. Each time the doctor would change his medication I would be so hopeful that everything would get back to normal. That he would be happy again, stop isolating, stop drinking so much. In P's case, his binge drinking continued in spite of the medical treatment for his psychological disorders.

I was convinced that the depression was the "cause" of his alcoholism. I spent hours researching medication options for him, investigating new clinical trials that showed promise, etc... I wanted him to feel better - I wanted the old guy back.

I have become convinced that I will never know the true source of P's problems - whether the alcohol caused his depression and wild mood swings or his depression and wild mood swings caused him to turn to alcohol. I don't know.

It doesn't matter.

It is unfair that he changed. It is heartbreaking. It makes me angry.
But it is what it is. There is nothing that I can do to bring the man that I loved back - and there is nothing that P can do to bring the naive, pushover, little girl that he married back. I have changed, too.

My STBXAH has been seeing a psychiatrist and taking multiple medications for his mood disorder for almost 2 years now. He still drinks to excess when he feels the urge. He remains someone that I cannot live with.

P is content to be who he is, and I am not content with him. That is all that matters.

My husband is 2 months sober and going to AA. Yes, he is still suffering mood swings and apparently that can continue because his body is still withdrawing from the alcohol for up to a year. I would have left already if it wasn't for the step work I am doing in Al-Anon. I'm learning that his mood doesn't have to be my mood, his opinion of me and my shortcomings is not fact. He hasn't thrown himself into recovery and the negativity is still there in him but I have finally learned that I am not responsible for his happiness. Likewise he is not responsible for my happiness.

To give a concrete example. He'll say I'm fat. In the days before I realised he was an alcoholic, I'd think: I am fat. I've got to exercise more. In the days after I realised he was an an alcoholic but before Al-Anon, I'd think: What a jerk. Why am I still married to him? NOW, he says it and I think: Actually, I look great and if he can't appreciate it, it is his loss. Leaving my husband won't make me look any different. Sure I won't hear the negativity but nowadays I don't hear it anyway.

I don't know how long I want to live in my bubble of detachment but in the same way he takes his sobriety a day at a time, I take my marriage a day at a time and today, I don't need to take any steps to leave it.