baileyboop

I used to think all kinds of bad things about my ex when we were married. It was in response to my pain, although I would have never admitted that at the time...I actually don't wish any bad toward him any more...It took alot of time and distance to get that way though

Tally

I'm sure it was Co-dependant No More I read in the list of "symptoms" of co-dependancy that it was quite common to wish death on a drunk spouse. That sounds awful doesn't it? I'm pretty sure it's what I read though, forgive me if I'm wrong as it's been a long time since I read the book.

I think when you feel stuck and resentful in a present situation or bitter about a past relationship it is so easy to think those bad things and wish ill on others. Of course if that "ill" actually happened most of us would be distraught but that doesn't stop us thinking bad things on occassion.

I'm not ashamed to say I wished on occassion that my BF would just die. I felt so trapped by my co-dependancy that it really did seem like the only way out sometimes.
I also wished him illness so that it might make him "see" and want recovery.
I regulary wished the shop would be out of his particular booze so he wouldn't be able to drink that night and a load of other horrible things. I'm not ashamed to admit those bad thoughts made me feel better too.

Maybe it's a sign I wasn't far along in my recovery, maybe they were coping mechinisms at the time and where mostly thought in anger, I'm not sure, maybe a bit of both?

kj3880

I often wished my "recovering" addict selfish @ssh0le b/f would die during the day when he left the house. Only so I could be easily rid of him without having to deal with the scary and dangerous situation of breaking up with him. Once I did it, it wasn't so bad. Now I just feel sorry for him. He's relapsed, again! I'm almost sure I'll one day be attending his funeral and feeling bad for wishing him dead. These feelings of anger are natural, though, and I don't see anything wrong with expressing them. We all go through them.
Love,
KJ

ItsmeAlice

Dreamer are you out there??

I was thinking of you this morning and wondering if you've been feeling better since Friday. You had a lot of feelings stirring around in your pot, and I hope you had a chance to let some of them go.

I hope you are enjoying your new apartment and maybe adding some personal touches this weekend to it to make it feel more like your own space.

It's a peaceful day in my world today. I hope it is with you as well!

Alice

Ago

See, that's where my experience differs from yours

"We" don't "all go through them"

I have never felt this way

I am pretty good friends with my "exes", the significant ones anyway, with the sole exception of the abusive one, and truthfully, I wish the best for her, both for her and her daughter's sake. I never meant or wished her harm, much less dead, I wished she would stop harming me.

She was horrifically abused as a child, so that's the behavior she takes with her through her life, it wasn't "OK" that she was abused, nor was it OK that she abused me in return, but I absolutely wish she finds healing and the love that all of God's children are entitled to.

I'm clear and comfortable with wanting to stay well clear of her, and knowing she will never find that love with me, but I hope she finds it somewhere.

I probably got that view from watching "speakers" at meetings for so many years, no matter how differently we all look on the outside, inside we all want the same love, acceptance, care and relationships in our lives.

I mean this is the vulnerable part of me that made me stay in the relationship long after it got abusive, I truly want to believe in the inherent goodness of man, and that was the part of me that kept "going back" because I honestly believed her when she said she had changed, so there is something in me I need to address there, some vulnerability I don't want exploited again, but I would rather have too much love in my life then too much hate.

Having a resentment is like drinking Poison and hoping the other person dies.

The only person harmed by me drinking that poison is me.

I'm not going to say anger wasn't helpful to me, the only way I could leave was when I got angry enough, but after I left any time I got upset at her, it only harmed me...it just wasn't helpful.

I am aware however that the grief process does have stages

The stages are:
Kübler-Ross model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Thanks to Sailor John)

but for me it's harmful to "dwell" in the "anger" stage

Of course this took me a few years to come to this realization, dwelling in the anger stage, before I took the necessary action to both my change my life and my response to life but today it's pretty important to me.

ItsmeAlice

Angry feelings are universal.

Ago is so right. There are so many ways in which anger manifests. It is what we do when we feel anger that makes it healthy and productive and moves us into another stage of the healing process.

Some people turn that anger inward and are destructive to themselves. I was for years. I was the one I wished ill upon, and I was the one who made sure things went that way.

As he's referenced, the process should not be rushed and should not be held to another person's standard. It is an individual endeavor. Dreamer is not alone in how she feels and there are others who feel the same. Ago is an example that ill wishing and anger towards someone else does not have to be. There is another way.

I had to forgive myself and stop destructively blaming myself before I could begin to forgive my ABF. For me and for others, turning anger outwards is actually a step forward. Not the best step, I humbly admit, but a step nonetheless. Now that I am no longer trying to destroy me, I can learn that noone has to be blamed or punished, and noone has to pay.

I truly WANT to be at a point where I can wish nothing but happiness for my addicted mate. I want that to be the base on which I build a new outlook for my own life.

Alice

timetogo

I'm not going to say anger wasn't helpful to me, the only way I could leave was when I got angry enough, but after I left any time I got upset at her, it only harmed me...it just wasn't helpful.

Thank you ago -- I needed to hear this today and to be reminded of the stages of grief

Kimmieh

Ago, I think many of us (myself included) need the anger stage to move from enabling to detaching. In my healing process, anger has played an important role because it gave me momentum to DO something WITHOUT caring about their well-being. And yes, my anger was directed at them and perhaps many people can be angry and still not want anything bad happen to the person while others experience this form of ill-wishing.

My personal belief in the goodness of man has turned into self-sacrifice and made me a doormat. It was also the reason for me to do the same thing over and over again. And of course I want love in my life and I don't want hate, but loving OTHER PEOPLE too much has lead to neglecting and therefore not loving myself enough. In order to break out of that I need to feel resentment to force my love away from the people who abuse and exploit it.

I agree, but who is to say that the posters here dwell in the anger stage? We are going through it and dealing with it best we can. As a step on the way I believe it can be liberating and as the journey continues and we get healthier, we don't need to be angry anymore because the focus is on us and loving ourselves. I don't hate any of my exes, but to be honest, I wish I had felt anger towards them at some point - I would have spared myself a lot of grief. I kept loving them and believing in the good in them and making excuses for their behavior instead of saying: "I am angry and I want this person to get the f*ck out of my life and I hope that someone scratches his precious car (because I am too much of a codie still to do it) and pours manure over the leather seats!)." That sounds a lot healthier to me than what I actually did (with regards to an ex, not ABF): "He cheated on my because he is ill. It is not his fault. I understand that he does not want to take this medication because he likes being manic and when he treats me badly while he is, he apologizes to me and never mind that he talks about getting rid of a baby he does not want by kicking his girlfriend in the stomach, the poor boy is mentally ill and I have to help him." He did say that and I wish I had gotten angry and to this day I cannot forgive myself for that and to this day I am sure that if I had stayed, I would be in big trouble by now. His form of mental illness is dangerous and I knew it and still I thought if I just loved him enough, I could fix it.

Anger has its place and I have come to greatly appreciate it. I don't dwell, but I go through the stage, let it out as people in this thread do, in safe situations (venting to friends, etc.) and safe environments, reflect on it, and try to move on to detaching.

I guess ultimately different things work for different people and what is destructive for some can be healthy for others.

:ghug

Barbara52

Oh I went thru anger! No doubt about that. But for me the anger was at myself and at what the disease of alcoholism had turned my xAH into. I was angry at him for any number of things too. But never did I wish him ill.

The one person in the world whom has made me the angriest as an adult is my first ex. He has treated my sons like trash. Sometimes the anger I feel at him for what he has done and continues to do to my sons makes me shake I am so angry. But not once have I wished him ill. I wish he feels the full consequences of his choices.

But it diminishes me to wish ill on another human being even if I have good reason to be angry at them.

For me there is a large differnence between being angry, and expressing and using that anger to spur myself to necessary action (I did that when I got to the point where I left xAH) and turning that anger into hate which is what wishing ill on someone feels like. Hate is an emotion that I believe is self destructive and always have.

Expressing anger at someone who causes me pain can and does sometimes ranting about what has happened, wondering how in the hell they could act that way, wondering what the hell they were/are thinking, etc.. But I can't turn that into wishing them ill because for me that taints me in a very real way. If I go from venting and ranting into wishing something bad happens to that other person, I am violating my standards for me, for how I should act, for what God wants for and from me.

Barbara52

It difficult sometimes to see and/or learn the difference between healthy expression of anger and unhealthy expression of anger. It took me a long time to learn that difference after the mess of a childhood I had. Heck I still have issues with anger that I have turned inward which for me is a tendency to "eat" my emotions. I ahve sturggled with my weight most of my life and am only know realizing some of the reasons why I have this particular problem.

LucyA

This illness of addiction really is the most confusing illness I've ever come across. About 4 years ago I heard it called the 'family disease' and I couldn't understand that at all way back then (seems a lifetime ago)
But it really is a family disease, it affects us all, everyone close the the A is affected. We all deal with it in different ways. I dealt with it by trying my hardest to detach from my brothers A-lifestyle and by trying to show his son how to make 'good' choices (my life is far from perfect, and I don't mean to imply that it or I am perfect)

I've been angry at my brother, I've done the letters and e-mails that were never sent, I've asked him to leave my house because he was upsetting the children, I've walked away when he made what I considered inappropriate comments, or crossed boundaries I'd set for me and the kids. I've never wished him ill though, I only ever wished he'd get better, or make better choices for himself.
I know someone who did wish him ill though, and who voiced those wishes, and I know what she is going through now. Even though it was in the depths of her frustration and anger at him, she feels the guilt of what she said. I don't hold it against her, just as I don't hold it against any of you who feel the need to vent your anger in that way.
But she can't take her words back or her thoughts and wishes, and now he's gone she feels it so much more.

Life's too short, ours and theirs, direct the anger somewhere else and let it go.

kj3880

It is very interesting to me to see how some of the posters on this thread are so bothered that other people have had a lot of anger and even secretly wished ill on the addicts in their lives. Feelings are just feelings, thoughts are just thoughts. As long as I don't actually say or do anything to bring ill on anyone, my side of the street is clear. I give myself permission to feel my feelings today. The good and the bad. And I understand that my anger is not some scary magical power that can bring about evil unless I choose to act on it. I feel that there are some posters on this thread who've tried to make some of us feel guilty for feeling angry, and I don't agree with that. Part of the process. Normal and healthy as long as we move on from it in good time. Anger can actually help us make good decisions.

KJ

Barbara52

If that is at all directed at me, I am not bothered in the slightest. Just expressing my point of view.

See, I believe my feelings and thoughts influence how I interact with the world and in a spiritual sense influence how the world interacts with me. I think part of our differences here is a difference in spiritual beliefs or philosophy or something. Neither is right or wrong, just different.

No emotion or thought in itself is bad or good. It's what I do with those emotions and thoughts that matters for me. Some emotions can be damaging to the individual if held in or not expressed in a healthy manner. Expressing one's anger can be a good thing, a necessary thing.

I don't see that at all. But we all perceive things from our own situations and sometimes see things that may or may not be in the words as the person typing them means them to be read. The written word can be sooooo limiting since it doesn't allow for the wider range of imput that comes with face to face such as tone of voice, expression, etc that we would get in the real world. I try to read the words of posters in the most positive light possible since I am pretty sure most in here mean their words in a positive manner.

Ago

B52 has been much more eloquent in trying to express my feelings on this subject then I have.

See I am of the opinion there are no "secretly" in bad thoughts, not only do they manifest themselves in words, thoughts and actions, they color my perception of the world around me.

I can absolutely tell when I am around an angry, spiteful person or a happy, kind soul.

You can't hide it, "The truth will out" as they say.

Garbage in, Garbage out is the computer term for it, if I put garbage in my brain, I am going to have garbage thoughts, and live in a garbage tainted world, then like Barb says, I will literally manifest garbage in my life on a spiritual level.

It's like Givelove tells the story of the Old Man that holds the door open for the two ladies, one thinks "what a nice man" the other glares and thinks to herself "male chauvinist Pig"

Same man, two perceptions.

I am not religious, but I absolutely believe in "for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." and not in some amorphous karmic concept that someday something bad will happen to someone if they are a bad person, but right here, right now, I end up beating myself with the club of anger, judgment, and righteousness that I pull out to use on others.

there's nothing "magical" about it, it's as simple and as absolute as a mathematical equation.

It was an absolutely miserable existence when I was stuck there.

I used to have a boss that used to just show up on the job site and yell, rant, rave and holler.

After he left, nothing was different except maybe some of us were upset, I always used to call the guys, give em a break and tell them, "remember, he has to live in that brain, it sounds like that all the time in there. We only have to see him occasionally, he's stuck listening to it 24/7.

Anyhow, reread what I write, I always share what my experience is, this is how i feel, and my feelings are just that, my feelings, they are pretty unimportant in the big scheme of things. I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty for having angry thinking, hell as far as I am concerned, you can hold your breath until you are blue and I won't be bothered.

I was sh1t pissed when I ended my relationship, I needed to be, I needed that anger to get away, I have no problem with people being angry, I really don't, I've spent too much of my life angry to have judgment for others for being angry, I get it, what I'm not too cool with is just putting others down to build myself up.

It's not helpful or healthy for me.

Ever.

Once again, for me, it's like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies, I'm the one that actually drinking the poison, then that poison starts affecting everything around me, until the world turns into an evil place full of assholes.

I'm just over it.

My point was there is no such thing as "mock ill-wishing" and that I come here for recovery, which included me being so angry I couldn't even think straight when I got here, and allowing other people the same space, what I called "foul" on was bashing for the sake of bashing, because I spent quite a bit of time being the "bashee", I mean I wouldn't come here and start telling "battered women" jokes because some things aren't funny, and some behaviors aren't appropriate no matter what the provocation.

If we go "eye for an eye" we'd all end up blind, you know?

kj3880

What does any of what's gone on here have to do with "battered Women jokes????" I mean, that is just offensive.

The women (and maybe some men) on here, who've expressed angry feelings, have expressed them towards specific people in their lives who've done them extensive harm. It's appropriate to feel angry for a while about that. Angry at the a. Angry at ourselves for allowing it. Just angry.

And why should anyone "reap what they sow?" Nobody is sowing anything here. There has been no action. Not even a hint of taking an action. Just thoughts. Just feelings shared. I don't understand what you are talking about when you say that you are objecting to the putdowns. Who has anyone put down? And you say some behaviors are not appropriate. There aren't any behaviors indicated here. Just feelings and thoughts. Thoughts and feelings come into our heads unbidden sometimes. I don't feel like there is anything wrong with talking or writing with other people in recovery about them.

The title of the thread was "Mock Ill Wishing." That pretty much says it all. I feel like if someone didn't like to read mock ill wishes, then they wouldn't have to read it. Take what you need and leave the rest, as they say. I don't want anyone to feel censured from talking about feelings here, even anger. Better in than out, I say. It'd be different if someone here talked about a plot to kill or injure their ex, but that isn't going on.

Let people have their process, and I say, let them express it!

KJ

coyote21

I have to admit, when we first split up and were going through the custody battles and all the threats of "you don't have enough money to fight me for her (dd) for the rest of your life", I wished my aexw would go ahead and die.

Man I was scared and I just wanted peace and to get on with my life and from where I was sitting I couldn't fathom the "dust" ever settling.

My old ally alcoholism has taken care of that for me, it's really weird.

I got a message from a co-worker last week that some old friends I used to work with had called the office and left both their numbers and I should call them back.

Aexw used to work with them also and for a few moments my (sick) mind flashed that my ex was dead and somehow they had found out through the grapevine and were calling to let me know. All I could think was how will I tell my daughter that her mom is dead.

She wasn't, but I get the feeling I'm gonna have to have that conversation eventually. It'll be the worst.

Now days, every morning I pray for her sobriety, peace, happiness, and serenity. I'm selfish that way, 'cause it's really more for my daughter and me than for her.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

Freedom1990

I'm glad you brought that up, Ago. My sponsor can peg me every time I'm angry, and sometimes it's so deep and simmering, I don't even realize it yet!

I've also found I sense it in others too very easily.

coyote21

THAT'S FUNNY!

You made me laugh out loud, and boy did I need it. Good job!

Kimmieh

But is that always a problem? Isn't it better to be angry at my A than to silently endure the bs because I am so full of love? Isn't the latter exactly our problem? Some anger is productive and some is destructive and which it is really depends on the person and the situation.

To be honest, I am little sick of being full of love... (<- the best smiley ever!)

GiveLove

Hey, y'all, I think we all have different triggers, for different situation, on different days, when the planets are in different alignments, and depending on how many hours' sleep we got the night before and how mean people have been to us in the past twenty four hours and a hundred other factors.

If you read through this thread you find some constants:

--Anger is going to happen in the early stages of a breakup, and it's going to manifest itself in some pretty crazy ways sometimes.

--Anger might be a very useful thing in terms of 1) getting away, and 2) getting over a damaging relationship

--Not everyone agrees on the "right" way to manifest anger, nor how long to do it.

Me? I took my own strange path away from XABF. I realized, or my HP realized (to be exact) that in order for this man to ever get the heck out of my life, I had to become something HE found distasteful. Can you imagine? I had to seem harsh, judgmental, thick-skinned, uncaring, and (in terms of what HE thought he saw) dishonorable. Only then could we both move on. In essence, I had to pretend I was something I wasn't - a big time acting job - in order to get over him, and get him out of my life.

There are some who would judge me for that, just as there are some who would judge someone who blows off steam by dreaming up elaborate (mental) revenge scenarios. It seems so "unnecessary," someone said to me. They are seeing the situation through the lens of their own personal experience, and putting their own mark on it. I understand that perfectly; we are all pretty complex machines.

But one of the basic tenets of recovery for us friends & family is the ability to decide for ourselves what we need in order to heal, and rely on our support system to cut us some slack in these situations. I wished very bad things on my exes at times because, well, I felt they were being cruel people. But I'm also a person who can hardly swat a fly or throw away a tattered family stuffed animal for fear it's going to feel some sort of psychic pain It wasn't me; it was the grief and the open, sticky wounds that were trying to heal.

This doesn't last long in most cases (though my therapist told me of a man who was still throwing mental daggers at his ex-wife after 17 years...) No one here is a mean or vicious person. Imho we're just trying different avenues to healing, thrashing around and testing the waters, looking for whatever serves us on our path to a better way to live. It's just that it can be.......pretty colorful at times. No real XA's were harmed in the making of this thread

It's all gonna be okay, everybody -- we've all been through some really painful sh*t and we're doing our best here.
:ghug

Dreamer, hoping your Monday dawns brighter. You have a uniquely awful situation in that you still have to see your ex - and his new life - every day. Very difficult and more than I could/would want to handle. Take care, okay?