If it walks like a duck...
 

I apologise in advance for the length... but just another day here in the cracker factory..

This evening I have been given a masterclass in alcoholic behaviours and quacking. Bear in mind this A is 2yrs (and nearly 6 months into recovery).

Cue his arrival home. I was having a bad moment. Nothing to do with him just feeling a little overwhelmed at the amount to do and the tight schedule I am on with moving my stuff out. I'd been in the attic and was sat on the floor when he got back having a little weep. I'm actually enjoying crying having bottled for so long. So he comes over to me hugs me and says what's wrong and I said nothing just having a moment and feeling a bit pee'd off with myself for not sorting my stuff out last year. He asked me if I wanted a hug and I said no.

Anyway he went into another room and sat down to watch t.v.

I gathered myself together after a little while and walked into the room he was in. I got the usual 'you ok' and I said, 'not really no' to which he replied he doesn't like to see me upset.

Now I'm not sure how the hell we got to this but then he is:

berating me for not having got my stuff sorted sooner (yep, I am psychic and know exactly when someone is going to say the relationship is over);

berating me for not reserving the correct size of storage unit for my stuff (errrrr that's my problem and not insurmountable);

berating me for wanting to move out as soon as possible;

berating me because the way our split is going is not as 'amicable' and 'friendly' as his friends divorce (they stayed in the same place for months don't you know and acted like adults AND they are still friends now);

berating me because he thinks he should take tomorrow off work and help me sort my stuff out for removal (even though he will be zero help because he has no idea what I would keep or throw away);

berating me because I said I had progressively been sad, withdrawn and with very low self esteem this last year (he even said to me 'have you ever suffered from depression and have you had any prolonged periods of absence from work before :wtf2 );

and the best one... saying I have never heard you call your brothers.. why.. why do you live in isolation.. (it doesn't occur to him that I may speak to my brothers, who live quite some distance from me, when he isn't around)... incidently he speaks to his sister who lives about 10/15 miles away once or twice a year at best..

Oh I could go on...

Then came the anger. Out of nowhere. His eyes went as black as coal and he said 'I..don't..want..to..talk..to..you'. I asked why he was so angry and after much blustering I left to go back up into the attic and he actually put on his coat got in his car and drove off.

I was up in the attic when he got back. He made himself some food and eventually I came down. I walked into the room and after a little while said 'do you want to tell me why you are so angry with me?'. Again he said 'I don't want to talk to you you just don't get it do you'.

Well.. I'm not proud of this but I very nearly told him EXACTLY what I thought of him. It's funny how, when you're not in a funk, you can see how things are and recognise someone stomping all over you trying to gain control.

Instead, I got my coat and bag and went out. As I was coming down the stairs he said... and omg I nearly laughed.. 'Where are you going you don't have to leave'.

My reply? 'Yes I do have to leave. I am going to call someone from my group and tell them exactly how I feel right now.. and that is around you I do not feel safe'.

Which I did. I had a nice long chat with someone from my group and felt much better. Some wise words and good advice.

On my return, the A had gone to bed (open door and watching a dvd). I advised him that I am not responsible for his anger, that if he is unable to articulate his feelings that is fine but it is unacceptable for him to take it out on me and that from here on in we can exchange pleasantries but I will not accept being verbally attacked. His response... I don't want to talk about it or to you, I want some time on my own to relax.

He is going to make it awfully easy for me to go no contact if he keeps this up. :)

Suunds like you handled it pretty well all things considered. {hugs}

Thank you for the hugs..

I'm quite proud of myself... :)

And I was actually laughing as I typed it. What a ridiculous state of affairs. As my Al-Anon fellow said 'you are detaching... so he is feeling fear upset etc. and has the inability to express it; he is trying to control how you leave; taking your inventory etc. etc. ... set your boundaries with him and then leave him to it'.

My eyes have been opened..

Sorry you're having to go through that, Tallulah, but I sense it might be toughening you up on a deeper level. No consolation, I know LOL but the quacking always served a purpose for me -- letting me see the ridiculous situation I was leaving. If he were rational, kind, and loving, would it be easy to leave?

You're doing great.

Hugs,
Gl

Wow tallulah you handled it well!
Its funny. They also share soul, don't they?
F. also said "No one would ever understand his lonely path".
I am glad you are realizing a lot about yourself.
You are on the right track :)

That's ok GL. It actually did me some good. No doubt he will take my walking out as 'dramatic' (as he does with most of what I do or say) but tbh I don't give a flying ffffff ish...

I have never seen it from this angle before. I've just always been confused by the behaviour. But he feels fear and loss of control. And instead of saying it (well apart from the odd slip of the mask) he is acting it out. What was it someone said on the forum.. 'he is shrinking in my eyes'..

Wow! What a night you've had already. I'm sorry you are unable to have a rational adult conversation with him even after all this time sober.

I read back through your recap of the argument to look for the subtext of things. He definitely doesn't want to see you upset. He probably got so bent out of shape because he knows your upset because of him. (Whether you are not doesn't matter when he's going to make it about him anyway)

I'm reading that when the argument is directed at you, he does just fine expressing all the venom he's got, but when the accusations start to come back around to him (even if it's only the accusations he has in his head) he says, "I don't want to talk to you."

To me, that's code for "I don't want this to be my fault." (put a drink in his hand and you're right back where you started)

When he walked out the door, the attention was on him.

When you walked out, you put the attention on you, and he was compelled to say that you didn't really have to leave.

You know what the quacking is now. You did what you needed to do address the quacking. Unfortunately, 2 yrs and 6 mos doesn't really change much for some people.

Part of his recovery, if he is actually working one, is to deal with healthier ways of communicating to you. If he is refusing to do that, then he's not really trying to change after all.

Again, I'm so sorry you're in this drama swamp. Please use the frustrated energy you have to push you to finish sorting your things and moving forward.

I'm rooting for you full force! Go tatullah, Go tatullah!

Alice

I have to admit to a moment there where I nearly went 'tawanda'.

Thank goodness one of my group picked up the phone to talk to. Otherwise I might not have been so 'articulate' ;)

Awww thanks.. I thought I'd share because, looking through the lens of Al-Anon, this grown man is looking pretty ridiculous.

Just imagine the Aflac duck in front of you quacking and quacking and quacking and
getting smaller and smaller and smaller

:lmao :lmao

Quite a night huh.. lol

I know he doesn't like to see me upset. The interesting thing about this situation is he is actually blaming me for this split. I said I was thinking of leaving.. 3 days later I got myself into Al-Anon.. my thinking of leaving was an attempt to change.. I'd hit rock bottom. After I went I talked to him and told him I wanted to work on it and he said we are not good for each other and we're split. Ok.. accept the things you cannot change.. didn't like it but accepted it. I think the only true moment of honesty I have seen from in the short time we have been over is when he burst into tears and said he didn't think he wanted me to leave. Or maybe that was manipulative. Damn these alcoholics are good.. lol

Spot on with the projection. And what I have noticed (now my eyes are open) is that he really likes to take my inventory to the point of demonisation. It doesn't matter if he has it all wrong or if there is an alternative he hasn't considered: you are bad, you are wrong, ergo you give me a reason to be an utter sh*t and reject you. And spot on with the discourse foreclosure. When he is quacking he is as communicative as a duck with verbal diahorrea, but when someone else is talking he shuts down.

Unfortunately for him, when he walked out of the door, I was in the attic so didn't even notice until I heard the door slam lol. His focus was ruined: which might have explained why he came back after about 10/15 minutes.

You are right about his recovery. He goes to meetings twice a week, he has a sponsor (who he sees sporadically but he does have one) and he talks the talk.. but is he working it.. I'm really not so sure.. the behaviours are still there to some extent and were in full effect tonight.

Awww thank you for your concern. I probably shouldn't but I'm actually seeing the ridiculous side of it... and I really was laughing as I typed the OP. Before I would be :wtf2 and confused.

:lmao:

He is smaller because he didn't apologise. I didn't go looking for one and I didn't expect one... but he didn't offer one.. says everything to me.

:lmao: :c011:

Apologizing?
That takes a specific type of people ...
I feel tallulah that you are walking on the bridge towards The Other Side, very sure of yourself
I am proud :) it feels great to get back your own power!!

LOL.. yeah, people who can recognise when they are wrong.

I didn't handle it perfectly. There were some things he said, quite cutting about me 'leaving stuff to the universe' and general disparaging stuff pointed at my recovery, which did floor me a little. But on the whole I do feel like there is a flicker of being able to handle this stuff in a way that is healthier for me. :)

OMG! That's perfect! I am going to start doing that to all sorts of people who dare to annoy me. :lmao

I know I've seen that on the Kids Down the Hall. That was a great show!

Talk to the hand!!

OR quack with your fellow ducks :) we beautiful swans, do not understand your language.

We are too elegant :)

I think you handled things just perfectly, not letting him mess with your mind and seeing him for exactly who he is. He's totally p**sed that he's losing control and is trying to make you feel small so he can gain it back, but you are just too cool for him!! :)

Hang tough, girl. You're almost out of there!!

Thanks.. :ghug

I've realised that. When I spoke to my group buddy the first thing she said was 'he is an alcoholic'.. 'you are detaching and he can't deal with it in a healthy way'.. 'he is trying to control your leaving'.

I have to admit at the time.. when he was getting angry with me for not accepting his help to sort through my stuff (because his entire contribution to that would be picking things up that I decided could be disgarded and putting them in a bin!).. I did not quite understand the sub-text.

The whole sorry conversation was designed for him to vent his feelings and make me feel like crap in the process. There is one thing that has stuck in my mind since.

He asked why I had not sorted through my stuff since I moved in. I said initially I was too busy and also had slight moving fatigue so couldn't really be bothered at that time: latterly, I was unsure of my place in this house and in the last year I have been in a really sad, dark place if you hadn't noticed. He said he had noticed and tried to speak to me several times about what was wrong and he said I fobbed him off with 'I'm ok'. I said did you, it didn't seem like it. Cue proverbial prodding of me.. why do I never accept help, why are you this, why are you that..

Now that was my 'benefit of the doubt' filter working overtime. The truth. He (this man who is supposed to love me and care about me and is offering help to sort through MY stuff) never came to me and said he'd noticed I was down and lets talk about it. Not once. This is a man who rarely talks about feelings. What a crock..

Damn that filter.. I'm going to rename it 'BS filter' and recalibrate it.

Today. I don't like him very much. I'm tired of the lies he tells himself. I'm tired of being the 'baddie'. I have broad shoulders and will admit when I am wrong: but they are no longer broad enough to shoulder his rubbish too.

Today. I'm going to call it like I see it. I'm not going to go looking for conflict or discord or get defensive or start taking inventory, but I'm going to stop making excuses for this man.

Last night was horrible. But I'm grateful for it.

I have received a text from him. 'Sorry for getting angry at you'. I received it about 4 hours ago.

I haven't replied. My instinct is to say nothing. Maybe I'm angry, but it seems hollow to me. And another reason for him to ask 'Are you ok?'.

Go with your instinct...don't text back :)

Well, heck that makes every ok now, right? I'm sure he is thinking along those lines.

I'm not going to. I've decided it is pointless acknowledging it. :)

LOL... that crossed my mind.

When I read it I thought.. hmmm.. sorry for getting angry AT YOU. I saw more misdirection. Maybe I could use one of his best loved phrases at this point.. he just doesn't get it does he.. I didn't do anything wrong.

At this point I would probably have sent 'Ok'. To which he would have texted 'Are you ok?'. To which I would have once again responded.

Played the tape through all the way this time. Not worth it.

What else did you expect him to say? JMO, but it seems like he was genuinely concerned that you were upset and tried to be there for you. Now I haven't read any of your other posts, so I don't know the story between you and your AH, so this is only my opinion.

I know you say you don't know "how the hell you got to this part", but if it were me, I'd try thinking back how we got to that part and think about the part I may have played in getting there. You say he was "berating you". Was he actually, or was he just trying to let you see that you must be responsible for your actions (such as "if you had gotten your stuff together sooner, you wouldn't be so upset" type thing) and you got a little defensive, something we all do at times?

You say he put on his coat and left. How would you have expected him to handle an escalating situation? Stay and possibly argue some more, escalating things further? When he returned, and you asked him why he was so angry with you, he told you he did not want to speak to you. How else would you have expected him to handle that situation? Give you reasons why he was angry with you and possibly argue some more?

I am not saying I think you're wrong in how you felt, I'm only bringing these things up because I believe we must take responsibility for the part we play in situations. And sometimes we are a bit clouded by anger, resentment, etc. that we only see the part the "other person" played. Like I said, this is just my opinion, take what you like and leave the rest. I wish you well, and much peace.

thanks for your reply queenteree :)

The first part you quoted was just imparting information. I made no judgement. Back story to the main event if you will.

The second part you quoted. I hear ya. At the time I posted I had no idea how the hell he got so angry. Now I do. What I forgot to post was how he was saying things like, 'You're being stupid', 'Who do I have to call to talk some sense into you' and then listing a whole lot of people he was going to ring.. an Al-Anon fellow, my brothers, even his own parents to make me see 'sense'. I am not imagining him speaking to me like an idiot/drama queen/piece of crap. I am not imagining his tone. He got himself angry. I wasn’t doing it the way he wanted: the way he knew best. Now that could be for a number of reasons. But I can’t talk about his anger and the reasons if he doesn’t. And I am not responsible for how HE responds.

I understand what you are saying but his suggestion that I have to accept him helping me pick and choose what I leave with (stuff that is mine and I brought here) when I know he can't and in fact should not... that if I do not comply to his wishes or what he thinks is best for me (if I do not accept what he sees as ‘help’) I am in some way in need of having 'sense' talked into me... that if I do not comply I am to be told exactly what he thinks is wrong with me to the point of bringing my relationship with my family and my mental health into it and take it and say 'yes, dear you're absolutely right'... is wrong wrong wrong.

I am willing to accept my part and always have. I am also willing to accept when I have been a little defensive. But interestingly another of his criticisms was that he couldn't say anything to me because I would take it personally. Well I'm not sure how you are supposed to take someone calling you a liar, pathetic, annoying, mentally ill, drama queen, stupid. Admittedly it is better than previously in our relationship when I have had wh*re, b*tch etc. thrown in the mix, but to me they are berating someone.

The third part you quoted. Well again I hear ya. But by this time I had removed myself from the situation and climbed a ladder into the loft. He may have needed some fresh air. Who knows. And yes it is better than him hitting me or punching holes in the wall/doors so yes an improvement.

I did not speak to him straight away. My expectation of him? To talk to me with some respect and to be able to have an adult conversation and if he is angry about something to say what it is and not lash out. Or if he is unable to, remove himself from the situation and stay removed until he has calmed down. Maybe it is an unrealistic expectation but so is expecting a person to accept verbal attacks.

Thank you for your good wishes.. and I appreciate your opinion :ghug