ODAT63

In seeking your highest self, the extraordinary life that you came here to experience, always remember that you are a piece of God or a Higher Power. You are a divine creation—a being of light who showed up here as a human being at the exact moment when you were supposed to. Your body will depart at precisely the right moment as well. But you’re not that body you behold, nor are you its personality or any of its possessions and accomplishments.
You are a miracle. A part of the eternal perfection. A piece of the divine intelligence that supports everything and everyone on this planet. You and I and all of us are eternally connected to our Source, the ever-present power of love that never abandons us and never runs dry. Rely on this source and remind yourself that it includes YOU at all times.

m1k3

ODAT63, thank you for this post. I hope you don't mind if I use this as an example to show the differences in thinking between believers and agnostics/atheists.

To me, as an atheist, this comes off as religious. It is a belief in something outside my self that exists eternally, is a divine intelligence and is full of love.

This is much better than a lot of what I have heard at meetings but it is still a belief.

I am quite happy to accept reality just as it is. It doesn't have to be forever, it doesn't have to love me and I have no need to rely on it. I have no need to confess my sins/shortcomings/defects to it and I don't need it to make me whole or complete.

I am finally getting out of a relationship ( with my AW) where I was searching outside of myself to find something or someone to make me complete. I am now content to be me, I am enough just as I am.


BTW, I am using this as an example of how even very benign and nontraditional beliefs feel religious to those of us who are nonbelievers and why even though al-anon calls itself spiritual it can feel rather religious to some of us.

To me spirituality is when I connect with my center, accept myself and the world just as they are without my need to control or fix anything and to be at peace with myself.

I hope this is taken as me sharing my experience and point of view and not a criticism. I am just trying to clarify a point that many people don't understand.


Your friend.

wellnowwhat

Mike, I like what you have to say here. The HP part of Alanon is a struggle for me. At first I tried to be open to see if I could have faith again (raised Christian). Four years in and that hasn't happened. Then I tried to use Mother Nature. The Japanese tsunami wrecked that notion.

I've been feeling like a "pretender", like I am abusing Alanon for attending when there is no longer any expectation on my part that I'll ever practise the steps as they are meant to be. For me there is no "him" to give over my control.

I do have to remember, more often, the "take what you want and leave the rest".

And yes, on my bad days, the religion aspect of the program jars with me with every "him" reference or the closing prayer. I don't have an issue with the individual sharing of members, just that the literature feels to me to be exclusive. (when they wrote the program they were meaning God in the judeo-christian sense and the "or none" refers to an absence of religion, not an absence of this God. stories of success in the program in the books and forum usually acknowledge a strengthened or new faith in God.)

I've heard that finding an issue with the HP portion is an "excuse" to not work the program. I find this simplistic and offensive.

I don't want to change the program to suit me better. I just want to find a way to work the program that I can live with peacefully. I am hoping it's not an either / or situation.

This is just the way it feels to me, with my life filters and not meant to offend anyone.

fourmaggie

my HP to me when i first walk into the rooms of AL ANON was a garbage can! yep...it was tall, strudy, and it had a big mouth to put all my garbage into it....it was always there for me to though it ALL character defects and all my dysfunction of my life....today that garbage is still there...but my HP is the rooms of AL ANON and SR...i have my own faith, and it does just fine for me to CHANGE what i believe needs to be changed in with me.....

i am not a "holy person"...but i do believe there is something BIGGER out there then us...does that makes sense?...(need coffee.....ll)

m1k3

To me the program and steps, as is, are way to Christian. I don't feel a need to confess my defects to god or another person. I don't feel a need to turn myself over to a higher power. I don't feel the need to have a sponsor. If you look at my sig you can see I boiled the whole program down to 3 steps.
1. Giving up the illusion of control. Mindfulness was my primary tool with this step.
2. Letting go of the past. Journaling was a big help with this.
3. Accepting me and reality just as they are. Here is where meditation played a major role.

I still use mindfulness and meditation, as well as running, as daily tools to keep myself centered. I will occasionally use my journal if something is bothering me but I tend to use the forum much more for that now.

Your friend,

wellnowwhat

Mike: Thanks again!

I find I am not too bad about your No. 1.

I find I am in a bit of a #2 and #3 vortex. I sometimes think to accept me I need to visit the past to find out some "why's" and then I get stuck there for too long instead of letting go.

I want to get to the part where when I visit the past, I visit the good places, because there were many, and some days that is just tough to remember!

Anyway, thanks again Mike.

Cyranoak

...and even more of one with many religious people. And, I don't believe in God. That said, it's crystal clear to me that there are higher powers all around me.

However, I believe that excuses to not go to Alanon or AA are just that-- excuses. I don't believe in God, but I'm not going to let that stop me from being successful in Alanon and in using the 12 steps. I take what I want and leave the rest. In my case, had I not gotten past the God thing I'd probably still be the same miserable person I was for so many years. Now, while others may not like me, I like me. That was never true before. And my wife likes me too and I'm pretty sure that wasn't true for a long time too.

There are people, and Mike is one of them, who find recovery without the 12 steps, but even then going to Alanon for awhile was one of the places Mike got the tools he needed to find serenity by taking what he wanted and leaving the rest. And, of course, by having an open mind which does not mean blindly accepting dogma; rather, it means considering thoughtfully before making a decision.

Here's the difference-- he gave it a chance before he decided it wasn't for him. I respect people for whom AA and Alanon didn't work when they gave it a chance to do so. I don't have that same respect for people who've never even tried it-- their point of view on the subject is illegitimate because it is not from first-person experience.

My two cents too.

Cyranoak

Caz12

I think one of the main reasons I didn't like Alanon was because I'm not comfortable sharing my feelings within a group of people, especially people I don't know. I don't like group therapy, it's personal and emotional. I know you don't have to share if you don't feel comfortable but too me that would be never. I feel the fact that people are in the same boat a good thing but to me that was it. I'm glad I tried it but it's not something i'll be looking into again.

m1k3

Cyranoak is right, I'm am not against al-anon at all and I still strongly recommend it. It was a life saver for me at a time when I really needed support and there are parts of it I think very highly of. I will use it again as well if I ever feel the need to.

It is great group therapy, I am a big fan of the slogans which are still an important part of my recovery. I may not agree with the 12 steps as they are worded but I agree with what they are trying to accomplish. Like I said I reduced the 12 steps to 3 but only after I had a solid understanding of what they were and what they were supposed to accomplish.

To me the 12 steps are about realizing that you can't do this your self. You need help whether it is a higher power, the wisdom of the group or your own inner wisdom. But you need to understand this at a deep level and you can't do that in the beginning on your own. Your head is just too messed up with what is going on around you.

Once you have let go of your need to control and cure your alcoholic you are now able to start looking at why you got caught up in the madness and continued to stay when a normal person would have said to heck with this I'm gone.

For me it was being raised in a dysfunctional family with an alcoholic father. This is also the reason I have problems with parts of the program. I have huge trust issues especially with authority figures as my childhood was spent having my parents crush my trust over and over again. This is why group therapy is good for me as I can open up much easier to the group than I can to an individual.

Also what helped me is that I am what I refer to as a secular Buddhist and I have been for a long time. I don't see Buddhism as a religion but a philosophy. So I had a background in mindfulness and meditation which are huge parts of the al-anon program even if they are called by different names at times. To me Buddhism and Al-Anon are very similar in what they teach.

The last part to me is accepting myself and reality as they really are, again very much a Buddhist thing, and realizing that once there you are not done, serenity is something you have to practice everyday, that you don't stop using the tools just because you have regained sanity or else at some point in the future you will find yourself right back to where you are today.

So I work my program every day and will for the rest of my life.

I strongly recommend Al-Anon or another group like it or private therapy. While you the only one who can walk your path it is sure nice to have a guide or two to get you started.

Your friend,

RoundII

wellnowhat,
I feel like a "pretender" as well. Today I missed an al-anon meeting because I knew they were doing 6th step work and didn't really want to get involved in that discussion. I really need a meeting and support as I am still dealing with my AW's relapse, but it would raise more issues for me than help cure them.

I am hoping I can get past this and still make the program work, but am not sure how. Perhaps I will find my HP in something as simple as a trash can or as big as the universe.

Until then I will have to continue trying as it is the only established program out there with meetings every day all around the city. The success of the program and serenety of many of the people who have been there for years speaks volumes.

I cannot argue with success, but hope to modify it to create my own.

wellnowwhat

RoundII:
This fall I went through a tough time and started missing my regular meeting (a great group BTW with a lot of strong, serene, happy members). I was surprised how quickly I fell back into old bad habits and "stinkin' thinkin'".

I am glad to be attending regularly again, but every now and then I skip out when I feel I just can't glide through the HP references.

I find that when it's a step that I don't particularly want to cover, I try to consider it as service to sit and listen to my fellow members - being their sounding board type of thing. Often I will find some nugget from the meeting to mull over until the next meeting.

I try, sometimes, to think of the collective wisdom of my group as the HP.

I don't plan on quitting. I get a lot from attending.

My AH detoxed once for a couple of weeks 4 years ago, but has had no recovery and no program. Oddly, I find my situation in the minority.

Sending good wishes your way.

wellnowwhat

oops!

wellnowwhat

double oops!

m1k3

RoundII, what I wanted out of al-anon when I first started was for the pain and suffering to end. I met a lot of great people there and discovered that I was not alone. A great first step.

I also learned that my suffering had a cause. The cause once you understand it is simple but learning to understand it is very hard. My suffering was caused by my inability to accept reality as it is. I needed to change reality, to change my wife into something she isn't, to hide my shame at what she really was, to hide my pain, to change the past some how and make this not happen, to control the future to keep it from continuing to happen. My life had become unmanageable and I was powerless to do and change all those things that I wanted to change.

Next I learned that there is a cure.

Finally I learned that the cure is my program/practice. To me the emphasis is on mine. Each of us has to learn to walk our own path once we figure out what it is ans al-anon was a great place for me to figure that out. My program forced my to look at my life as it really was and to realize that I had choices and I had control. I had no control over other people, places and things but I had complete control over how I chose to react to them.

By the way, what I have just described is the 1st 3 steps of al-anon and the 4 noble truths of buddhism.

Steps 4 through 9 are about letting go of the past. To let go you need to revisit it, see your role in what happened and let go. I did this through journaling. I wrote pages every day for months until I cleared most of the garbage out of my head. I still have things pop up but now I recognize what they are and have the tools to defuse them and let them go. I choose not to let the past ruin my now.

Finally for me the last 3 steps are about this is a program or a practice. It is something you work every day. For me that is done through mindfulness and meditation and running.

That is how I as an atheistic buddhist work my program. I hope it gives you some ideas on how to work yours.

Also, I don't have any problems listening to people share about how their higher powers or even god comforts them because there are often lessons in there that I can use. For example a god box. I have heard about that a lot in meetings. You take a problem that is bothering you, write it down and stick it in the god box. At that point it become's god's problem and not yours. A good way to identify where you are living in the future and not in the now and to bring your self back. I use a different technique but the purpose is exactly the same.

Your friend,