Stupid Question?
mle-sober
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 1,243
Wow SleepyCherie, you impress me. I'll be watching your for your posts. It seems to me that you are going into this relationship with your eyes wide open. It also sounds like your bf is a man of integrity who intends to respect you and be careful with the love that you are offering him.
My fear is that, if he is an alcoholic, no amount of managing or controlling his consumption will be successful. As you know. His strategy of making a large pot of tea in order to have something else to hold and drink smacks of the strategy of someone trying to control their drinking. People who don't have drinking issues don't need something else to drink or hold.
Now that your bf knows your feelings on the issue, if he realizes that he cannot control his drinking, will he go to AA or will he hide it from you? That's kind of the next big question if he is an alcoholic. And if he goes to AA, will he be resentful of you or will he see it as something he's doing for himself? That's another important question.
Just because he's empathized with your past and your feelings on the issue, doesn't mean he'll be able to handle his own issues as well.
Anyway - those are my worries. You don't need to reply - I'm just floating them out there. I think it is possible he's not an alcoholic and will be able to cut back on his drinking successfully and without resentment. Only time will tell. I respect your action of coming here and thinking it through and talking with your bf. I think you have every chance of things turning out well. I wish you all good stuff. Good job! You recognized an important thing that was bothering you, you thought it through and got a handle on it, you talked with your bf about your needs, you heard his response and put it into a realistic perspective. I don't think anyone could have done that better. Big points!
My fear is that, if he is an alcoholic, no amount of managing or controlling his consumption will be successful. As you know. His strategy of making a large pot of tea in order to have something else to hold and drink smacks of the strategy of someone trying to control their drinking. People who don't have drinking issues don't need something else to drink or hold.
Now that your bf knows your feelings on the issue, if he realizes that he cannot control his drinking, will he go to AA or will he hide it from you? That's kind of the next big question if he is an alcoholic. And if he goes to AA, will he be resentful of you or will he see it as something he's doing for himself? That's another important question.
Just because he's empathized with your past and your feelings on the issue, doesn't mean he'll be able to handle his own issues as well.
Anyway - those are my worries. You don't need to reply - I'm just floating them out there. I think it is possible he's not an alcoholic and will be able to cut back on his drinking successfully and without resentment. Only time will tell. I respect your action of coming here and thinking it through and talking with your bf. I think you have every chance of things turning out well. I wish you all good stuff. Good job! You recognized an important thing that was bothering you, you thought it through and got a handle on it, you talked with your bf about your needs, you heard his response and put it into a realistic perspective. I don't think anyone could have done that better. Big points!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 46
Aww that felt really good to hear! Thank you mle-sober! I've worked really hard to be this open with my feelings. Not so long ago I would have kept it to myself and let it eat away at me. I'm in a potentially bad situation, but this time I'm taking care of myself instead of feeding myself to the problem. I have a lot of learning and growing to do yet. At least I'm moving in the right direction. 
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 46
Update: He made it a bit over 24 hours. I was in the bedroom getting my daughter ready for bed and I heard him quietly "set" an empty beer can in the recycle bin. When I got done getting her down for the evening, he was on the couch with a stein half full of beer. Since then he's added another can to it.
I know I said I had low expectations, but am I just flat out stupid? Should I be giving him a buffer of time to undo a behavior he's had for years?
I know I said I had low expectations, but am I just flat out stupid? Should I be giving him a buffer of time to undo a behavior he's had for years?
mle-sober
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 1,243
Originally Posted by SleepyCherie 
Update: He made it a bit over 24 hours. I was in the bedroom getting my daughter ready for bed and I heard him quietly "set" an empty beer can in the recycle bin. When I got done getting her down for the evening, he was on the couch with a stein half full of beer. Since then he's added another can to it.
I know I said I had low expectations, but am I just flat out stupid? Should I be giving him a buffer of time to undo a behavior he's had for years?
I know I said I had low expectations, but am I just flat out stupid? Should I be giving him a buffer of time to undo a behavior he's had for years?
Now you need to take care of yourself and not do any negative self-talk. That only re-injures you. There is nothing wrong with your expectations, your communication of those expectations, or your deep disappointment when he does not live up to those expectations. This is his failure. Not yours.
I am so, so, so sorry. Right now, I am thinking about you and wishing you a soft landing. Take care of yourself and keep posting and sharing here. There are so many people here with so much wisdom and experience.
Yield beautiful changes
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: A home filled with love
Posts: 1,698
Originally Posted by SleepyCherie
I know I said I had low expectations, but am I just flat out stupid? Should I be giving him a buffer of time to undo a behavior he's had for years?
You explained yourself to this man, told him your fears, concerns, needs - and he agreed that they were valid and pledged to honor those feelings by refraining from alcohol.
He made it 24 hours. That's the truth. Maybe he has excellent intentions, but he appears to be unable (or unwilling) to follow through on the assurances he made you.
Alcoholic or not, it seems that he will continue to drink.
Why would you owe him a buffer?
What do you owe yourself?
-TC
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Baghdad
Posts: 2,822
Originally Posted by SleepyCherie
but am I just flat out stupid?
Ditto with what everyone else has said. None of us-including you-are stupid.
Keep coming back, you'll find a lot of support and wisdom here.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 17
Originally Posted by SleepyCherie
Based on his reaction I'll give it a week and see how it goes.
I quoted one of your earlier posts. You were willing to give it a week, and after a mere two days, he's drinking again.
You are not stupid.
Only you can answer the questions that you posed...
We are all here to support you.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 46
I was pretty quiet last night. Not silent treatment quiet, I answered questions and made small talk, but it was obvious that I was upset. I wasn't ready to talk about it because I was still gathering my thoughts, but he asked me to "have a word with him" this morning.
He was immediately upset and said "If you are in love with someone else, then just get a uhaul and move out, because I can't stand to have my heart broken". He said me giving him the silent treatment and putting him the wood shed for no reason was unacceptable.
I brought up that he was drinking the day after we had the big talk about drinking. He went on about he is adult and willing to make reasonable accommodations for my feelings but that it is unreasonable for me to expect that he's going to stop drinking 100%.
Via email and phone we've discussed that he does not agree that he has a problem with alcohol and that he feels I'm projecting my fears and anxieties from my mother onto him.
His main argument is that I wasn't being a healthy partner last night by giving him the silent treatment. Admittedly I was pissy and I did not tell him why I was upset. As I have explained to him, I was upset and trying to gather my thoughts before I said something about it.
He maintains that he loves me. He said it was only 2 beers (I'm pretty sure it was 3 and I told him so). He said he put it in the stein because he didn't want to make me uncomfortable (apparently the container is what was causing me the anxiety).
He said it was asinine that I went on dates with him and drank and sat at home with him and drank then "all of the sudden" I've got a problem with drinking.
I reminded him of the conversation from a couple of months ago where we'd argued about beer drinking, and again explained how I was trying to be reasonable and not uptight about the drinking because at first I assumed I was projecting. I told him that I apologize for the way I handled things last night but that doesn't take away from the validity of my concerns.
We just got off of the phone because as he summed it up "I don't think we have anything healthful left to say to each other right now". He knows I've been very ill and I have a terrible headache after a terrible night sleep. He said we'd talk later.
My thought is.. how about I'm not here to talk to.
I have places to go.. I'm not sure I want to take that step yet. This is a defining moment. If I let this go now, I have to deal with him drinking in whatever quantity/frequency he deems acceptable, or I leave.
Ugh. My face hurts.
He was immediately upset and said "If you are in love with someone else, then just get a uhaul and move out, because I can't stand to have my heart broken". He said me giving him the silent treatment and putting him the wood shed for no reason was unacceptable.
I brought up that he was drinking the day after we had the big talk about drinking. He went on about he is adult and willing to make reasonable accommodations for my feelings but that it is unreasonable for me to expect that he's going to stop drinking 100%.
Via email and phone we've discussed that he does not agree that he has a problem with alcohol and that he feels I'm projecting my fears and anxieties from my mother onto him.
His main argument is that I wasn't being a healthy partner last night by giving him the silent treatment. Admittedly I was pissy and I did not tell him why I was upset. As I have explained to him, I was upset and trying to gather my thoughts before I said something about it.
He maintains that he loves me. He said it was only 2 beers (I'm pretty sure it was 3 and I told him so). He said he put it in the stein because he didn't want to make me uncomfortable (apparently the container is what was causing me the anxiety).
He said it was asinine that I went on dates with him and drank and sat at home with him and drank then "all of the sudden" I've got a problem with drinking.
I reminded him of the conversation from a couple of months ago where we'd argued about beer drinking, and again explained how I was trying to be reasonable and not uptight about the drinking because at first I assumed I was projecting. I told him that I apologize for the way I handled things last night but that doesn't take away from the validity of my concerns.
We just got off of the phone because as he summed it up "I don't think we have anything healthful left to say to each other right now". He knows I've been very ill and I have a terrible headache after a terrible night sleep. He said we'd talk later.
My thought is.. how about I'm not here to talk to.
I have places to go.. I'm not sure I want to take that step yet. This is a defining moment. If I let this go now, I have to deal with him drinking in whatever quantity/frequency he deems acceptable, or I leave.
Ugh. My face hurts.
mle-sober
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 1,243
Here is what it looks like to me. (Keep in mind that I am a recovering alcoholic with 25 years of drinking behind me. I have A LOT of experience with other alcoholics. I'm not judging the behavior patterns of alcoholics as bad or good - I'm just really clear on the fact that alcoholics use whatever conscious or subconscious tricks and games they have in order to avoid facing their alcoholism. Even if this means hurting people they love.)
You appear to be looking at this with a very open mind in terms of where your bias could be, how it could be manifesting, what you might be miscommunicating or misunderstanding. You seem to want to take responsibility for your own role and to expect that your bf will do the same because you know him as a fair and good person. You appear to place a very high importance on being fair.
Your bf appears to be taking advantage of that open mindedness of yours. He doesn't seem to place much priority on giving you any benefit of the doubt like you do for him. He seems to be primarily protecting his position and attempting to turn things so that you are responsible for his feelings, and his actions. He appears to have an interest in deflecting blame, avoiding responsibility for his words and actions, and finding a way to encourage you to question your own thoughts and feelings as invalid.
Everything about his actions that you have told us here smacks resoundingly of the actions of an alcoholic in deep denial and looking to avoid facing the truth about himself. And nothing, absolutely nothing, you say or do at this point will be able to help him. He has to help himself and you have to help yourself. He may or may not see the truth and seek help. But don't think that you have the power to illuminate his problem for him. He will not be able to see it. He will turn it around again and again to challenge your perceptions rather than admit his problem.
What you have the power to do at this point is to protect yourself.
I am sorry that you are having to face this mess. It's not your fault and you're wise to be questioning his behavior and your ability to accept it. If I were you, I would make the assumption that his behavior of denial, blame, and dishonest avoidance is due to alcoholism and that he has shown himself unwilling or unable to address that at this time or in the near future. And I would look immediately for ways in which to extricate myself. I wouldn't even engage or let him draw me back into a discussion over the issue. Any discussion will result in him twisting things and blaming you or apologing profusely and then not following through on promises.
I'm sorry. That's just what it looks like to me. I feel for you.
You appear to be looking at this with a very open mind in terms of where your bias could be, how it could be manifesting, what you might be miscommunicating or misunderstanding. You seem to want to take responsibility for your own role and to expect that your bf will do the same because you know him as a fair and good person. You appear to place a very high importance on being fair.
Your bf appears to be taking advantage of that open mindedness of yours. He doesn't seem to place much priority on giving you any benefit of the doubt like you do for him. He seems to be primarily protecting his position and attempting to turn things so that you are responsible for his feelings, and his actions. He appears to have an interest in deflecting blame, avoiding responsibility for his words and actions, and finding a way to encourage you to question your own thoughts and feelings as invalid.
Everything about his actions that you have told us here smacks resoundingly of the actions of an alcoholic in deep denial and looking to avoid facing the truth about himself. And nothing, absolutely nothing, you say or do at this point will be able to help him. He has to help himself and you have to help yourself. He may or may not see the truth and seek help. But don't think that you have the power to illuminate his problem for him. He will not be able to see it. He will turn it around again and again to challenge your perceptions rather than admit his problem.
What you have the power to do at this point is to protect yourself.
I am sorry that you are having to face this mess. It's not your fault and you're wise to be questioning his behavior and your ability to accept it. If I were you, I would make the assumption that his behavior of denial, blame, and dishonest avoidance is due to alcoholism and that he has shown himself unwilling or unable to address that at this time or in the near future. And I would look immediately for ways in which to extricate myself. I wouldn't even engage or let him draw me back into a discussion over the issue. Any discussion will result in him twisting things and blaming you or apologing profusely and then not following through on promises.
I'm sorry. That's just what it looks like to me. I feel for you.
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 46
Pay Back?
He stopped home for lunch, I was in bed and didn't get up. He didn't say anything and neither did I. I called him at 3:20 to check in because I hate feeling like this. It was a short 41 seconds and he's still not home an hour later.
He stopped home for lunch, I was in bed and didn't get up. He didn't say anything and neither did I. I called him at 3:20 to check in because I hate feeling like this. It was a short 41 seconds and he's still not home an hour later.
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