Feeling helpless, angry, lost
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2
Feeling helpless, angry, lost
If you minus the couple months break I have been with my partner for a year now. I first met him at a party and we were both drunk. We hooked up and then casually met up for a while. I said I didn't want a relationship coz at the time I felt strong and empowered as a single person. I look back now and realise it was coz I feared getting hurt by another...
But i'm straying off track.
Eventually we decided to go out. He always tended to drink a lot but I went thats just him....its a part of who he is. He got a bit violent on a couple occasions at partys but I was smitten and let my boundaries shift. besides ...at the time i thought it was all in good fun. Then on the night of his birthday party he (claims) he drank to the point where he blacked out, next thing he came to he was in the process of sleeping with another woman and stopped and left. I still grapple with this everyday. I was shattered.
He then commenced a three month campaign in which he didn't touch a drop, stepped up his dosage of anti-depressants and got a job. I saw this as him trying to turn around his life for me. Originally after he cheated on me I thought I could never go back. But i guess everyone is attracted by the romantic thought that someone would change for them....that they would love them that much.
So I said we could try it again, but there would have to be some boundaries. I asked him what he thinks is fair and he said a drink an hour. I agreed with this.
Time has gone on and all was good at the start. Then the boundaries started to slip, he drunk a little more than a drink an hour but I kept telling myself that he would right it, that i had to let him have autonomy.
He started to claim he felt his freedom was impeded. That he saw his housemates having the ability to drink and have fun without restrictions. He claimed that the only thing he saw breaking us up in the long run is the alcohol.
Now the issue is he has a long history of drinking and cheating. 2 days ago it came to a head when he came home drunk. When he saw me at his place he just lay on his bed with his eyes closed, impervious to me slapping him (lightly) out of frustration, my sobs, my words of attempted reason. So i threw his key at him and left.
He lives three houses down from me. He is 23. He claims that it is part of being a 23 year old male but I can't even begin to appropriately process whats been going on.
I feel like a warden on the relationship. I don't want to. I want him to want to change it. This is probably all common things.
I am trying to deal with the notions of what version of a 23 year old male is socially acceptable. He claims he is. I feel disrespected, hurt, grieving and have to walk past his house each day and wish that he loved me enough to find the strength to stop it once and for all.
He claims he doesn't have a problem. And he hasn't drunk for a long time. But in his mind his notion of freedom is equated with alcohol and he seems constantly orientated towards it.
Besides the alcohol the relationship has been great but I don't want to keep living with the feeling of a clock ticking down the time left on my relationship.
His brother has bi-polar and he suffers from anxiety and depression.
Right now I am trying to figure out whether to try to be there for him, to educate him or to let him figure it out in time.
thank you. I know that was long but it wasn't until i woke up this morning and started to read things on the internet that I thought he might truely have a problem.
Thank you again.
x
But i'm straying off track.
Eventually we decided to go out. He always tended to drink a lot but I went thats just him....its a part of who he is. He got a bit violent on a couple occasions at partys but I was smitten and let my boundaries shift. besides ...at the time i thought it was all in good fun. Then on the night of his birthday party he (claims) he drank to the point where he blacked out, next thing he came to he was in the process of sleeping with another woman and stopped and left. I still grapple with this everyday. I was shattered.
He then commenced a three month campaign in which he didn't touch a drop, stepped up his dosage of anti-depressants and got a job. I saw this as him trying to turn around his life for me. Originally after he cheated on me I thought I could never go back. But i guess everyone is attracted by the romantic thought that someone would change for them....that they would love them that much.
So I said we could try it again, but there would have to be some boundaries. I asked him what he thinks is fair and he said a drink an hour. I agreed with this.
Time has gone on and all was good at the start. Then the boundaries started to slip, he drunk a little more than a drink an hour but I kept telling myself that he would right it, that i had to let him have autonomy.
He started to claim he felt his freedom was impeded. That he saw his housemates having the ability to drink and have fun without restrictions. He claimed that the only thing he saw breaking us up in the long run is the alcohol.
Now the issue is he has a long history of drinking and cheating. 2 days ago it came to a head when he came home drunk. When he saw me at his place he just lay on his bed with his eyes closed, impervious to me slapping him (lightly) out of frustration, my sobs, my words of attempted reason. So i threw his key at him and left.
He lives three houses down from me. He is 23. He claims that it is part of being a 23 year old male but I can't even begin to appropriately process whats been going on.
I feel like a warden on the relationship. I don't want to. I want him to want to change it. This is probably all common things.
I am trying to deal with the notions of what version of a 23 year old male is socially acceptable. He claims he is. I feel disrespected, hurt, grieving and have to walk past his house each day and wish that he loved me enough to find the strength to stop it once and for all.
He claims he doesn't have a problem. And he hasn't drunk for a long time. But in his mind his notion of freedom is equated with alcohol and he seems constantly orientated towards it.
Besides the alcohol the relationship has been great but I don't want to keep living with the feeling of a clock ticking down the time left on my relationship.
His brother has bi-polar and he suffers from anxiety and depression.
Right now I am trying to figure out whether to try to be there for him, to educate him or to let him figure it out in time.
thank you. I know that was long but it wasn't until i woke up this morning and started to read things on the internet that I thought he might truely have a problem.
Thank you again.
x
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Welcome! You've found a great place for information and support.
He may or may not be an alcoholic. He sounds like he abuses alcohol at the least. But that is not the important question here.
The important question is this what you want in a relationship? Abuse? Infidelity? Ignoring your needs and wants?
You cannot control him and his possible alcoholism. Only he can decide to deal with that when he is ready. If he decides to deal with it.
You get to decide if you want to be in a relationship that sounds like its not something you want, that already has involved abuse, that doesn't sound healthy or fulfilling for you.
He may or may not be an alcoholic. He sounds like he abuses alcohol at the least. But that is not the important question here.
The important question is this what you want in a relationship? Abuse? Infidelity? Ignoring your needs and wants?
You cannot control him and his possible alcoholism. Only he can decide to deal with that when he is ready. If he decides to deal with it.
You get to decide if you want to be in a relationship that sounds like its not something you want, that already has involved abuse, that doesn't sound healthy or fulfilling for you.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 646
Hi Sare, welcome! I'm glad you found this place. If you click on any of our names you will have the ability to read all of the threads started by that member. I know I found it enlightening to read the histories. Many of the stories started when the people were quite young. In my case, I met my former husband when he was 22. His behavior was very similar to what you described in your boyfriend. I wish I would have listened to what my gut was trying to tell me then, because in his case he is an alcoholic/substance abuser and untreated addiction only gets worse.
Your boyfriend is telling you loud and clear who he is. This is not "bad" or "good" it just is. He is who he is. You are who you are. The good news is that your wants and desires are yours to own, and wanting and desiring a deep two way connection with an emotionally available man is a healthy thing. From what you wrote it does not sound as if your boyfriend is capable of this.
Please listen to your gut as it is trying to tell you something (or you would not have posted here). I would have saved myself and my 2 kids a lot of misery if I had listened to my gut...It only took me 21 years of escalating misery to learn to do so. Better late than never!
Your boyfriend is telling you loud and clear who he is. This is not "bad" or "good" it just is. He is who he is. You are who you are. The good news is that your wants and desires are yours to own, and wanting and desiring a deep two way connection with an emotionally available man is a healthy thing. From what you wrote it does not sound as if your boyfriend is capable of this.
Please listen to your gut as it is trying to tell you something (or you would not have posted here). I would have saved myself and my 2 kids a lot of misery if I had listened to my gut...It only took me 21 years of escalating misery to learn to do so. Better late than never!
mle-sober
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 1,243
Originally Posted by Sare 
... He got a bit violent on a couple occasions at partys but I was smitten and let my boundaries shift. besides ...
He then commenced a three month campaign in which he didn't touch a drop, stepped up his dosage of anti-depressants and got a job. I saw this as him trying to turn around his life for me.
But i guess everyone is attracted by the romantic thought that someone would change for them....that they would love them that much.
So I said we could try it again, but there would have to be some boundaries. I asked him what he thinks is fair and he said a drink an hour. I agreed with this.
He started to claim he felt his freedom was impeded.
I feel like a warden on the relationship. I don't want to. I want him to want to change it.
I feel disrespected, hurt, grieving and have to walk past his house each day and wish that he loved me enough to find the strength to stop it once and for all.
He claims he doesn't have a problem. And he hasn't drunk for a long time. But in his mind his notion of freedom is equated with alcohol and he seems constantly orientated towards it.
Besides the alcohol the relationship has been great ...
Right now I am trying to figure out whether to try to be there for him, to educate him or to let him figure it out in time.
x
He then commenced a three month campaign in which he didn't touch a drop, stepped up his dosage of anti-depressants and got a job. I saw this as him trying to turn around his life for me.
But i guess everyone is attracted by the romantic thought that someone would change for them....that they would love them that much.
So I said we could try it again, but there would have to be some boundaries. I asked him what he thinks is fair and he said a drink an hour. I agreed with this.
He started to claim he felt his freedom was impeded.
I feel like a warden on the relationship. I don't want to. I want him to want to change it.
I feel disrespected, hurt, grieving and have to walk past his house each day and wish that he loved me enough to find the strength to stop it once and for all.
He claims he doesn't have a problem. And he hasn't drunk for a long time. But in his mind his notion of freedom is equated with alcohol and he seems constantly orientated towards it.
Besides the alcohol the relationship has been great ...
Right now I am trying to figure out whether to try to be there for him, to educate him or to let him figure it out in time.
x
Getting into this kind of relationship where someone is drinking excessivley (even if they maybe do or maybe don't have a problem), sometimes violent (even if it is occassional), disrespectful, cheating on you (even if he has the stupidest excuse ever that he was in a blackout), and then throwing it all back in your face by saying you're the problem by somehow trying to limit his fun - well, that's something you can prevent and correct. This man sounds like he is not a positive contribution to your life. You can correct that by leaving the relationship.
AND this is even better news: You can learn from this. You can take something away from this relationship that will always be of benefit to you. Recognizing alcoholism or alcohol abuse is probably a really good thing to be able to do. When he tells you that it's normal and you know that it's not okay? Listen to your gut instinct. Even if his drinking falls into some body else's definition of normal, the fact that it is not the kind of drinking you want to be around is really important. Who cares if he thinks it's normal. It's not acceptable by YOUR standards. And your standards matter here.
Here's another lesson - Don't ever accept responsibility for limiting someone else's drinking. Once you agree that a certain amount is okay and above that is not, an alcoholic will always cross that line and then blame you. I know this. They need to be accountable to themselves and in order to do that they need to want to help themselves. They're never go to succeed at limiting or managing their alcohol. And if you are the person telling them that have crossed a line, they are always going to get angry at you. And that puts you in a confusing place. DOn't put yourself in that place.
Here's another lesson - Someone will show they love you by being nice, respectful, empathetic, and engaged with you. They will be enthusiastic about the relationship. They will want to share themselves and they will want to be available when you want to share yourself. They will want to spend time with you. They will show you that they appreciate who you are and what you do. Someone does not show they love you by changing for you. That is not love. That is codependant. Someone will not show they love you by summoning up the courage and strength to fight their addiction for you. That fight is between them and their HP and you have no ability to make that happen. It doesn't mean they love you if they do. It doesn't mean they don't love you if they don't do it. What it means if they do find sobriety is that they ahave deeply recognized that they are powerless over their addiction, that their life has become unmanageable and that they need help. It doesn't mean they love you. And if they do not fight their addiciton, it doesn't mean they don't love you. It means they are in the throws of a disease that currently is kicking thier ass and they are blind to that fact. It doesn't mean they don't love you.
Another lesson - Alcoholics and addicts will lie to you again and again and again until they decide to get help. That doesn't mean they are bad people. It doesn't mean they don't love you. It doesn't mean there is something wrong with you. Learning to steer clear of those lies and not let them dominate your life is a big skill. A lot of times, the alcoholic or addict actually believes the lie so fervently that they make you think you're crazy for not believing it. Don't get sucked into that. You are not responsible for his unhappiness because you are critical of his drinking. That doesn't make you the one responsible for the demise of the relationship. Also, his freedom is his, not yours. You can't take it or give it back. If you are acting as the warden in the relationship, that is by mutual decision. You are both acting that way.
Recognizing that you can not control him can be a very powerful thing. You don't have the power to be the warden. That's probably part of what's painful. Here you are - all set up to police this relationship and his drinking and - ooops - you don't have that power. That's painful. Stop thinking you have that power. Tell him he can drink as much as he chooses (obviously) and act how ever he wants (obviously) but what you require out of a man who wants to spend time with you is that he be sober, gentle, respectful, trustworthy, etc. When he stops being those things and blames you, you can respectfully exit the play.
Here's another - Whether he claims he doesn't have a problem with alcohol or not is so utterly irrelevant. WHat you see and experience in the relationship is that alcohol is a problem. It's important that you really get that or you will find yourself always dependant upon HIS interpretation of events and facts. As someone who is abusing alcohol (and most likely an alcoholic - I don't know why but there's a huge taboo against claiming that you think others are alcoholics) his interpretation of events and facts is ALWAYS going to be skewed to support his drinking. I'm an alcoholic in recovery. When I was drinking, everything in my life came second to my drinking. Everything. And most if not all of my thoughts were concentrated on rationalizing my drinking, supporting it, and explaining it. I spent a lot of time trying to convince other people that what they were seeing was false and what I wanted them to believe was true when it was blatantly NOT true.
I know I am writing a novel here and I'll probably get in trouble with some of the other posters here. But I have a visceral reaction to your post. You say: "Besides the alcohol the relationship has been great ..." And I just have so much pain inside for you. There is no relationship without the alcohol. You guys met drinking. You hooked up drinking. He's cheated on you drinking. And now you're fighting about drinking. If you took the alcohol away from this man, everything about him would change. You might not even like him any more! That happens in a lot of relationships. Part of the balance of this relationship is that he is an alcoholic and you are codependant. Absolutely everything would change if one of you changed. Thining that the relationship has been great besides the alcohol is like saying, well, I love this city if we could just get rid of all the buildings.
You also say: "Right now I am trying to figure out whether to try to be there for him, to educate him or to let him figure it out in time." I hope you realize that there is another option. It has NOTHING to do with him (which all three of your options are all about). It has to do with YOU. You have the option of walking away, saving yourself immense heartache, and learning from this.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2
thank you so much mle-sober. I am starting to think a lot more about all of this. Before getting on the net today, reading about it, and talking about it, I thought i was going crazy. thank you beyond words. ANd no- it wasn't too long. it was what i needed!
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
mle-sober-
can you help me understand something? why doesn't my ABF collapse? he drinks about 10 pints a day, doesn't eat much, barely sleeps yet he gets up everyday and does it again? wouldn't the body just collapse?
also, it appears if he drinks heavily at night, he needs a drink again early in the morning. why isn't he ill?
can you help me understand something? why doesn't my ABF collapse? he drinks about 10 pints a day, doesn't eat much, barely sleeps yet he gets up everyday and does it again? wouldn't the body just collapse?
also, it appears if he drinks heavily at night, he needs a drink again early in the morning. why isn't he ill?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
sare-
i've taken your trip and would advise you to get clear of the bloke. mine too cheated on me and blamed drink. now whenever he's drunk and comes home late, i wonder if he is cheating again. it's not pleasant. alcoholics tend to lie a lot. if you chose to stay with him, i would recommend some fact validation.
i never checked up on my ABF of 4 years until recently. once i started, it became very clear that he was lying to me about many things: money, where he was, etc.
you are young. you will find many stories here. hopefully, you will chose to wait for a partner who will bring out the best in you, and you in him.
good luck!
marie
i've taken your trip and would advise you to get clear of the bloke. mine too cheated on me and blamed drink. now whenever he's drunk and comes home late, i wonder if he is cheating again. it's not pleasant. alcoholics tend to lie a lot. if you chose to stay with him, i would recommend some fact validation.
i never checked up on my ABF of 4 years until recently. once i started, it became very clear that he was lying to me about many things: money, where he was, etc.
you are young. you will find many stories here. hopefully, you will chose to wait for a partner who will bring out the best in you, and you in him.
good luck!
marie
aka Miss Scarlett O'Hara
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 364
Hi Sare
I wish that I had been as smart as you are being and searched for help when I was about your age and in about the same situation. My abf never cheated on me which would have been a deal-breaker for me. Anyway, my abf quit drinking for me completely. And I get how it feels to think that someone would love you so much that they would make this kind of change for you. But if it is truly addiction that he is dealing with, he won't be able to quit for you or change for you. He'll need to realize that he needs to do it for himself. In my relationship, my abf did quit drinking for about 2 years. Then he started again. Then when things got bad, he quit again. When he knew I wouldn't deal with that anymore, he started abusing his pain meds.
You are obviously unhappy enough with his actions to be here looking for advice. You've only been with him a short time. Just remember that you deserve to be treated with love and respect. There are a LOT of other fish in the sea who will be just as "great" as he is, but treat you the way you deserve to be treated.
I wish that I had been as smart as you are being and searched for help when I was about your age and in about the same situation. My abf never cheated on me which would have been a deal-breaker for me. Anyway, my abf quit drinking for me completely. And I get how it feels to think that someone would love you so much that they would make this kind of change for you. But if it is truly addiction that he is dealing with, he won't be able to quit for you or change for you. He'll need to realize that he needs to do it for himself. In my relationship, my abf did quit drinking for about 2 years. Then he started again. Then when things got bad, he quit again. When he knew I wouldn't deal with that anymore, he started abusing his pain meds.
You are obviously unhappy enough with his actions to be here looking for advice. You've only been with him a short time. Just remember that you deserve to be treated with love and respect. There are a LOT of other fish in the sea who will be just as "great" as he is, but treat you the way you deserve to be treated.
mle-sober
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 1,243
Originally Posted by naive
mle-sober-
can you help me understand something? why doesn't my ABF collapse? he drinks about 10 pints a day, doesn't eat much, barely sleeps yet he gets up everyday and does it again? wouldn't the body just collapse?
also, it appears if he drinks heavily at night, he needs a drink again early in the morning. why isn't he ill?
can you help me understand something? why doesn't my ABF collapse? he drinks about 10 pints a day, doesn't eat much, barely sleeps yet he gets up everyday and does it again? wouldn't the body just collapse?
also, it appears if he drinks heavily at night, he needs a drink again early in the morning. why isn't he ill?
I don't know. I really don't. I've been in AA for a little over a year and have heard so many stories from people who drank like that. Eventually, they do all seem to end up very sick. Some people end up in ICU with blood alcohol levels that are very, very high. Such that the doctors can't believe they are still alive and have to test and re-test them.
At some point for me, alcohol ceased giving me what I wanted it to give me. There were days when it didn't matter how much I drank - I couldn't seem to get drunk. It was horrifying to me and I would just keep pouring it in waiting for that oblivion to set in. I would black out before I ever felt the slightest bit drunk.
I can say that when I drank a lot the day before, the only thing that made me feel better was more alcohol the next day.
I went to a meeting yesterday and a man told his story. He was trying not to drink but thought for some reason, it didn't count if he was drinking vanilla extract. He starting drinking large jugs of vanilla extract each day. Can you imagine? Part of me underdstood why he would do such a thing and how he could justify it in his mind. Alcoholism is perverse.
mle
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
thanks mle-sober-
i guess i need to educate myself more about alcohol. at this stage, i feel like that is the monster i am wrestling, not actually ABF. he is lost to this monster, i think he's even shocked at what he does under monster's influence. it certainly shocks me.
and congratulations on your sobriety.
i guess i need to educate myself more about alcohol. at this stage, i feel like that is the monster i am wrestling, not actually ABF. he is lost to this monster, i think he's even shocked at what he does under monster's influence. it certainly shocks me.
and congratulations on your sobriety.
mle-sober
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 1,243
Originally Posted by naive
thanks mle-sober-
i guess i need to educate myself more about alcohol. at this stage, i feel like that is the monster i am wrestling, not actually ABF. he is lost to this monster, i think he's even shocked at what he does under monster's influence. it certainly shocks me.
and congratulations on your sobriety.
i guess i need to educate myself more about alcohol. at this stage, i feel like that is the monster i am wrestling, not actually ABF. he is lost to this monster, i think he's even shocked at what he does under monster's influence. it certainly shocks me.
and congratulations on your sobriety.
My struggle to stop drinking was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.
But, knowing that I was strong-willed and desperate, knowing that I had a husband and children to live for, having access to rehab and a very good therapist, having a very wonderful sponsor and deeply supportive family, not having to hold a job and being able to concentrate almost exclusively on recovery - I think I was very lucky. And I still had to fight with everything I had. Everything.
My point to you is - no matter how hard you fight, you cannot fight this for your ABF. He has to fight it. And you just get to circle around him getting hit in the head with his carnage. And, whether or not he finds recovery (and holds on to it) is completely out of your control. Completely. And the fight is very hard. If he doesn't really want it, he is not going to win. So, I hope you think long and hard about whether you want your life to be dominated by the viscious, chaotic war that you do not even have the power to influence in the slightest. Knowing what I know, if I were you, I would leave now before I got too hurt.
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