sos-decision time
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
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Originally Posted by hopeangel 
is someone that basically tells you they are not going to meet there financial obligations to you - but meet theirs first and continues to spend money on alcohol when they are broke and can't meet their financial obligations tolerable?
Originally Posted by hopeangel
i could say that just because i go my own way and most of the time he leaves me alone and goes in the basement or he shows signs of potential future change it is "tolerable", but is it really? and at what costs to my wellbeing?
Nothing changes if nothing changes.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: oh
Posts: 757
thank you
tar, i didn't know that. that is good to know. it has to be justified if it is stated in the law as grounds for divorce right? i'm not crazy here and it is not "okay" or "acceptable" or at least according to the ohio laws i guess huh? that relieves some of my guilt and some of my questioning.
i know most therapist or churches and such that you talk to addiction is one of the only acceptable reasons for divorce.
i know most therapist or churches and such that you talk to addiction is one of the only acceptable reasons for divorce.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Face it. There is no decision to be made. It's all circular talk that you are laying out.
I used to be cut off from the neck down too-talked in circles, never went anywhere. I was the walking dead really.
I used to be cut off from the neck down too-talked in circles, never went anywhere. I was the walking dead really.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
Posts: 2,136
Addiction as grounds for divorce is only grounds in some states. With the court system overloaded, most states are becoming strict no-fault states. There are no grounds whatsoever for granting a divorce decree. I'd have to pull out my old domestic law book to ascertain if any state still has alcoholism as grounds, although the book itself is dated.
I'm wondering why you would be interested in divorce at this point because it appears at this point you are trying to come up with reasons not to move out of the situation. As LaTeeDa said, your moving or not moving is not going to make any difference in your AH seeking treatment.
He'll do that if he wants to whether you are there or not.
Sometimes making no decision IS a decision.
I'm wondering why you would be interested in divorce at this point because it appears at this point you are trying to come up with reasons not to move out of the situation. As LaTeeDa said, your moving or not moving is not going to make any difference in your AH seeking treatment.
He'll do that if he wants to whether you are there or not.
Sometimes making no decision IS a decision.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 209
I have to agree with LTD.
Nothing you do or don't do is going to have any effect on whether or not he gets treatment. Nothing you say or don't say is going to have any effect on whether or not he gets treatment. You're not that powerful Hope. None of us are. I said it until I was blue in the face. It didn't change a darn thing. I believe if my XAH wasn't currently in jail he would still be drinking. Why? Because he can. He knows I love him and he knows his son loves him. Heck, his son even begged him to quit. It didn't change a thing.
To me that "obligation" comes out of fear of leaving. I, as do most people, took my vows very seriously. I felt like I should stay because he was "sick". But, it made me sick too. I was afraid to be alone. I was afraid to be alone trying to raise a child. I used my "obligation" as a reason to stay.
Thing is, he had already left a long time ago.
Sue
Nothing you do or don't do is going to have any effect on whether or not he gets treatment. Nothing you say or don't say is going to have any effect on whether or not he gets treatment. You're not that powerful Hope. None of us are. I said it until I was blue in the face. It didn't change a darn thing. I believe if my XAH wasn't currently in jail he would still be drinking. Why? Because he can. He knows I love him and he knows his son loves him. Heck, his son even begged him to quit. It didn't change a thing.
To me that "obligation" comes out of fear of leaving. I, as do most people, took my vows very seriously. I felt like I should stay because he was "sick". But, it made me sick too. I was afraid to be alone. I was afraid to be alone trying to raise a child. I used my "obligation" as a reason to stay.
Thing is, he had already left a long time ago.
Sue
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: oh
Posts: 757
the other side
freedom, are you saying that i won't or am not capable of making a decision here? that kinda hurts. even if i decide that it is not right for me to act now? or am i not understanding the above comment? even if i decide not to act that is still a decision.
the other thing that i am kinda hung up on is that i know there are two sides to the story. i am not a perfect person by any means. NOT saying that excuses his behavior - it doesn't. just being honest about what holds me back thinking that if i was better he "might" be better.
i know i also have not met my obligations to the marriage. if anyone understands that.
the other thing that i am kinda hung up on is that i know there are two sides to the story. i am not a perfect person by any means. NOT saying that excuses his behavior - it doesn't. just being honest about what holds me back thinking that if i was better he "might" be better.
i know i also have not met my obligations to the marriage. if anyone understands that.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
My vow about "sickness and health" was rendered meaningless when he decided not to "love, honor and cherish." Both people in a marriage are accountable in holding up the vows, not just one.
L
L
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 209
No one is perfect Hope. We all make mistakes.
What if you get "better" and he doesn't? Then what? What if he gets "better" and you don't? I can't live my life by "what ifs." I do my best to live in the here and now.
Sue
What if you get "better" and he doesn't? Then what? What if he gets "better" and you don't? I can't live my life by "what ifs." I do my best to live in the here and now.
Sue
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
if i was better he "might" be better.
I just don't have that kind of power over other people.
Today I work really hard at leaving the driving to God.
Getting to my HAPPY PLACE!
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 298
how many on this board have stories to tell about their SO going to treatment, once, twice, three, even four or more times, only to relapse again?
Nothing changes if nothing changes. Keep posting - saying it "out loud" helped me more than anything. My thoughts are with you.
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Originally Posted by hopeangel
thinking that if i was better he "might" be better.
Originally Posted by hopeangel
i know i also have not met my obligations to the marriage. if anyone understands that.
What happened to that list you did that showed you a while ago that moving out was the right thing for you? (I think that was you at any rate.) What has changed?
I am not trying to tell you to move out. It's not my life ad I sure as heck don't wan to tell you or anyone how to run their life. If you aren't ready,you aren't ready. But if you decide to stay, please do it with your eyes wide open and with an honest understanding of why you are making the decision to stay.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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As for the ultimatum. Sounds like the best way to guarantee the worst outcome. Hope says "get treatment or I'm outta here." Hope's AH says "Okay dear, I will." Hope lets apartment go. Hope's AH says "What? You mean, like now? Uh, that's not the way I understood it." Hope comes back to SR in another two months complaining about how awful life with AH is. And on, and on, and on.......
Here is my alternate script. Feel free to use it if you want. Hope says "I can't live like this anymore, I am moving." Hope's AH says "please don't go, I will do anything." Hope says "I have to go for my own sanity, but if you can manage to <insert treatment, sobriety, or whatever>, then in 6 (or 3 or 12) months, I will consider living with you again. (Note CONSIDER, not WILL) Hope comes back to SR in a month to share how happy and peaceful her new life is......
L
Here is my alternate script. Feel free to use it if you want.
Hope says "I can't live like this anymore, I am moving." Hope's AH says "please don't go, I will do anything." Hope says "I have to go for my own sanity, but if you can manage to <insert treatment, sobriety, or whatever>, then in 6 (or 3 or 12) months, I will consider living with you again. (Note CONSIDER, not WILL) Hope comes back to SR in a month to share how happy and peaceful her new life is......L
Last edited by LaTeeDa; 02-18-2009 at 01:44 PM. Reason: typo
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
hi hopeangel
i am too, caught thinking if i were thinner my ex would have never abused verbally, if i were cooler he wouldnt have found me boring and strayed, if if if if only i could have been the Perfect woman for him!!
i am so sick that i even wished i drank as much as him so we could still be together. yes, thats how insane i was.
i am realizing i was too worried thinking about what would make HIM happy or angry
well i did not see my ex worrying about what made ME happy or angry at all.
he saw me crying due to his words. he saw me mad due to his decisions.
did he move a single finger to make me feel better? NOT AT ALL!! sometimes he pretended of course, crying and showing remorse but guess what a few hours later he was already drinking again.
it has to be 50/50
own your stuff.. learn from it..
but please dont carry his decisions or recovery
it just not in your power
not your burden.
try to make an effort and think about yourself.. i for one never wanted to do that but when i take myself there, everything is clear and looks much better...
i am too, caught thinking if i were thinner my ex would have never abused verbally, if i were cooler he wouldnt have found me boring and strayed, if if if if only i could have been the Perfect woman for him!!
i am so sick that i even wished i drank as much as him so we could still be together. yes, thats how insane i was.
i am realizing i was too worried thinking about what would make HIM happy or angry
well i did not see my ex worrying about what made ME happy or angry at all.
he saw me crying due to his words. he saw me mad due to his decisions.
did he move a single finger to make me feel better? NOT AT ALL!! sometimes he pretended of course, crying and showing remorse but guess what a few hours later he was already drinking again.
it has to be 50/50
own your stuff.. learn from it..
but please dont carry his decisions or recovery
it just not in your power
not your burden.
try to make an effort and think about yourself.. i for one never wanted to do that but when i take myself there, everything is clear and looks much better...
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Originally Posted by hopeangel
when you marry someone you do feel obligated (the whole sickness and health thing though) to give them every chance.
Do you think this is what God wants for you? Is this the abundent life God promise us all?
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Originally Posted by hopeangel
"That tends to be a good indicator of what he will do now..."
barbara...that's exactly what the therapist told me this morning.
barbara...that's exactly what the therapist told me this morning.
And what does his past behavior tell you?
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Ohio Divorce Law
Ohio Divorce Source: State Divorce Laws: Ohio
Isn't there a provision called "Divorce from Bed and Board" which is equal to an eviction notice for a "fault" divorce?
That could give you some time to figure out what you would like to do with the marriage if you got him out of the house, maybe...just maybe, if he gets sober later you could renegotiate the marriage?
Grounds for Filing: The Petition for Dissolution of Marriage or Complaint for Divorce must declare the appropriate Ohio grounds upon which the divorce is being sought. The appropriate lawful ground will be that which the parties agree upon and can substantiate, or that which the filing spouse desires to prove to the court. The divorce grounds are as follows:
The court of common pleas may grant divorces for the following causes:
No Fault (Dissolution of Marriage):
(A) On the application of either party, when husband and wife have, without interruption for one year, lived separate and apart without cohabitation;
(B) Incompatibility, unless denied by either party.
Fault (Divorce):
(A) Either party had a husband or wife living at the time of the marriage from which the divorce is sought; (B) Willful absence of the adverse party for one year; (C) Adultery; (D) Extreme cruelty; (E) Fraudulent contract; (F) Any gross neglect of duty; (G) Habitual drunkenness; (H) Imprisonment of the adverse party in a state or federal correctional institution at the time of filing the complaint; (I) Procurement of a divorce outside this state, by a husband or wife, by virtue of which the party who procured it is released from the obligations of the marriage, while those obligations remain binding upon the other party. (Ohio Code - Sections: 3105.01)
The court of common pleas may grant divorces for the following causes:
No Fault (Dissolution of Marriage):
(A) On the application of either party, when husband and wife have, without interruption for one year, lived separate and apart without cohabitation;
(B) Incompatibility, unless denied by either party.
Fault (Divorce):
(A) Either party had a husband or wife living at the time of the marriage from which the divorce is sought; (B) Willful absence of the adverse party for one year; (C) Adultery; (D) Extreme cruelty; (E) Fraudulent contract; (F) Any gross neglect of duty; (G) Habitual drunkenness; (H) Imprisonment of the adverse party in a state or federal correctional institution at the time of filing the complaint; (I) Procurement of a divorce outside this state, by a husband or wife, by virtue of which the party who procured it is released from the obligations of the marriage, while those obligations remain binding upon the other party. (Ohio Code - Sections: 3105.01)
That could give you some time to figure out what you would like to do with the marriage if you got him out of the house, maybe...just maybe, if he gets sober later you could renegotiate the marriage?
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
I think you should take the apartment and put some pressure on yourself to change!!
Do you realize how much energy you are using spinning your wheels like this!! If you could harness that energy towards healing yourself you'd make quick progress.
Nothing changes if nothing changes.
It could be really exciting and the start of a new life to take the apartment! If you let it be so and work to make it so.
I was so broke when my exH and I split up-- OMG - but any one of those difficult early years was 10,000 times better than a single day in my repetitive miserable unhealthy marriage!!
Good luck hopeangel-- the above is just my opinion-- you'll do what's best for you and your one fabulous life!
peace-
b
Do you realize how much energy you are using spinning your wheels like this!! If you could harness that energy towards healing yourself you'd make quick progress.
Nothing changes if nothing changes.
It could be really exciting and the start of a new life to take the apartment! If you let it be so and work to make it so.
I was so broke when my exH and I split up-- OMG - but any one of those difficult early years was 10,000 times better than a single day in my repetitive miserable unhealthy marriage!!
Good luck hopeangel-- the above is just my opinion-- you'll do what's best for you and your one fabulous life!
peace-
b
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Have you discussed your situation with a divorce attorney? That might be a good step to give you the information you need to make decisions from a position of knowledge rather than speculation. Consulting with this attorney does not have to necessarily lead to filing for divorce either. It will tell you i there is way you can get him out of the house, whether you can expect finaincial suppot,what your obligation and his obligations would be if you separate.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Wait, are we talking about divorce here? I thought we were talking about hopeangel moving out of the house into her own apartment in order to put some space between her and her husband. Now I'm confused. Moving out doesn't equal divorce. I was living separately from my AH for nearly 3 years before I divorced him.
Again, connecting two entirely separate things................
L
Again, connecting two entirely separate things................
L
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