Focusing on you, with out being selfish?

Old 02-17-2009, 01:08 PM
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Focusing on you, with out being selfish?

How do you focus on yourself, with out being selfish? It sounds silly, but seriously.. how do you do this? If I live in the moment, let go of the past, stop worrying about the future, stop worrying about other peoples opinions of me and do what really makes me happy, (with out neglecting the usual responsibilities of course) do I just end up being inconsiderate?

I think maybe the “your selfish” quacking I hear has gotten into my head, but really how to you balance these items?

For instance, there are simple things that I generally won’t feel bad about: Going out with friends when I want to, taking phone calls and texts and not worry about whose listening or what I’m saying, taking the kids on play dates etc.

But what about relationship issues? I don’t feel like I should have to put on a show, or fake an emotion that just isn’t there. I shouldn’t have to feel bad about things I do or don’t want to do. I also shouldn’t have to do those things just to please the other person. Sure I care about the way it makes them feel. I don’t want to intentionally hurt them or make them feel like they’ve been pushed to the side. But I also can’t continually worry about how it makes them feel at the expense of my own happiness.

So, every time I get to this point in my slow paced recovery, I feel like I’m at a standstill. Do you just stay on course and not do anything you don’t want to do? Or do you consider the other persons feeling and bend your feelings sometimes? And if you say, well I owe it to them, how do you stop yourself from falling back into the same old patterns?
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:14 PM
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Maybe it's just a sign that I've emotionally checked out of this relationship and I should give up it. Maybe the answer to my question is simply acceptance. I need to accept what I feel and what he feels and if that means we can't work out together than that's what it means. No sense in trying to bend the truth.

All the patience in the world is not going to stop the cycle that we are in. If I let go of my past hurt and try to openly love and give intimacy how does that stop him from hurting me again. It doesn’t. I guess that’s a choice I need to make. But I can’t force myself into that position of open intimacy at this point and I don’t think I should have to. Trust is something you earn and I feel like he needs to earn it back before I start giving again. Is it selfish to ask him to wait around for the time to be right, until I feel better?
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by isitme View Post

All the patience in the world is not going to stop the cycle that we are in. If I let go of my past hurt and try to openly love and give intimacy how does that stop him from hurting me again. It doesn’t. I guess that’s a choice I need to make. But I can’t force myself into that position of open intimacy at this point and I don’t think I should have to. Trust is something you earn and I feel like he needs to earn it back before I start giving again. Is it selfish to ask him to wait around for the time to be right, until I feel better?
I am curious to hear what others have to say about this. You have asked a question that I have been tossing around in my head. My AH thinks that intimacy will lead to a stronger marriage. I don't trust him and have been detaching myself from him. I need to have that trust before I can have any intimacy with him again. I think a stronger marriage will lead to intimacy. It is a crazy cycle and how do you break it?
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:40 PM
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For me, it's a matter of owning my own stuff, and allowing others to own theirs. If I can step back and take responsibility for my own feelings/emotions/desires, without projecting them on someone else, then I am free to do what I need to do for myself and my life. The other side of the coin is letting other people have ownership of their stuff.

Example: Before I found recovery, I blamed all my unhappiness on my husband and his alcoholism. If it weren't for him, I would be just fine. And he blamed his drinking on me. If I weren't so controlling, unaffectionate, nagging, <fill in the blank>, he wouldn't have to drink.

Recovery means that I take responsibility for my situation. I chose to stay in an unhappy marriage with a drunk. My choice, my stuff. He chose to drink even when it was clear our marriage was failing. His choice, his stuff. I have no right to put my stuff on him. And just because he tries to dump his stuff on me, doesn't mean I have to pick it up.

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Old 02-17-2009, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by isitme View Post
Is it selfish to ask him to wait around for the time to be right, until I feel better?
Perfect example. It is not selfish of you that you don't trust him. That is how you feel.

Expecting him to do what you wish based on your feelings is selfish.

So, you make your choices based on the fact that you don't trust him. (Perfectly reasonable) But, you must then be prepared for him to make his choices, which you cannot control.

L
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:47 PM
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Very sticky situation, that intimacy business.

I remember that country song in the last decade or two that started out: "They said 'your love life's in trouble' in a magazine I read, 'When the one you love is hanging off of his side of the bed'..... "

I thought that was so much bs. But for me I can look back and know that it's always been true. When getting physical with someone is no longer attractive to me because of hurts, abuses, disrespect, and dishonesty, I know there's not much I can do to get that feeling back. Sex isn't something I dole out as a reward. It's a feeling that comes from inside myself that expresses itself in the fun and joy and play of the physical act.

And when the feelings inside myself are mistrustful, angry, hurt, and I've lost respect for someone, I'm not in the tiniest bit interested in that physical act.

At. All.

If you plan on staying in the relationship and working this out, then it might help to visit a counselor together and see what small steps you can do to regain trust and intimacy.

But if the thought of doing that elicits a gut reaction of "No way,dude", then you may want to do yourself -- and him -- a favor and start the process of separating. Sex is far too important to most men (and many women) to expect to go through life never sharing it again, regardless of whether they are at fault or not. Anger and hurt will continue to build no matter how much explaining and justifying you try to do.

Just my two cents' In you I don't see selfishness.......you're just not willing to force/pretend/fake feelings that you don't have inside you.
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:47 PM
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In my opinion trust absolutely has to come before intimacy.

If you are focused on their drinking as a measure of trust - like he said he wouldn't drink and he did and now you cannot trust him-- well you guys know that is a losing game. Every time. And so there will be no trust. Ever. Why even look for it? That's insane.

If however you can find something he is trustworthy with then, I guess, you could focus on that and make that the barometer. Like does he get the car washed when he says he will? Does he feed the dog/kids/clean up when he says he will (or when it is expected of him as a responsible adult, not just when he's been asked?) Do you feel like he "has your back?" the way a best friend should?

If he is still at the stage of his alcoholism where he can function in those trustworthy ways then maybe by focusing on those few good instances you can regain some trust.

It wouldn't be enough for me. But you could try.

If that's not a scneario that seems likely then YES acceptance is in order.
ACCEPT his level of trustworthiness or non-trustworthiness.

And here is a concept that although it is all about YOU is not selfish one bit:
Can you trust yourself?
Are you working hard to build up your trust in yourself and your own instincts so that you will always have that inner clear voice to guide you??

So for God's sakes stop trying to bully yourself or let him bully you out of feeling so strongly that trust comes before intimacy. It is one of the most subtle of things feeling safe - but like dogs we can sniff it- we just know when it is not safe for us to risk giving our heart-- if you trust your feelings you won't do it and you won't argue with yourself!!

peace-
you are so on the right path with all these questions!!
--b
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:51 PM
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making your own choices, giving value to your own voice, honoring your own wants, needs, desires and interests is a sign of emotional maturity. when we realize we really aren't the Center of the Universe, and what we do or don't do really doesn't matter for squat, when we stay in bed all day and discover that the sun still rose and the Earth continued to spin on it's axis WITHOUT our help, we learn our "place" - we learn that what matters to us really only matters TO US. rest of the world really doesn't give a sh!t.........when we free ourselves of the belief that we are such a large part of other's lives and decisions, when we deflate our ego to normal size by accepting what we are truly powerless over, we can then grow towards leading our best life possible, picking out all the weeds and cultivating fertile soil.....

Thank you Anvil!! The quote of the day!!!
peace-
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:13 PM
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Give Love- Yes about intimacy and its definition and yes about sex. If I don’t have the intimacy, there is no reason to have sex.. for the most part.
LTD: I like your example; I am kind of in the middle of that road. I currently only blame part of my unhappiness on him.. haha I know I hold the key to my own happiness so I hold that part, but the part I really need to work on owning the fact that I choose to stay in a situation that is less than desirable. I continue to hope that one day he’ll stop verbally and emotionally abusing me and in not making the choice to leave I’m essentially creating that portion of unhappiness as well. Even though I understand the concept I haven’t learned how to live it and not take it personal. I also haven’t made the decision to brush it off every time it happens and live the rest of my life that way.
Perfect example. It is not selfish of you that you don't trust him. That is how you feel.

Expecting him to do what you wish based on your feelings is selfish.

So, you make your choices based on the fact that you don't trust him. (Perfectly reasonable) But, you must then be prepared for him to make his choices, which you cannot control.
I do actually accept this. What’s hard for me to swallow is that in general the pattern has been that his choice is not to remove himself from the situation which he finds undesirable (just like me) but to continue to throw blame at me and what I’m doing instead of taking ownership of his own feelings about it. ( I feel like I’m actually getting it now.. I’m answering my own question.. You guys are so great!) He could say, I don’t want to be in this relationship anymore if you don’t trust me and can’t be intimate with me. But he doesn’t. He just continues to start fights about it and put me down in the process, which starts the whole cycle of broken trust again.

Give Love: I would love to go to counseling.. but we all know how open A’s are to those things. Falls in the category of “Shhyaa Right!”

Brenadette – For me the drinking is not a measure of trust. But I guess the actions that follow the drinking are. If he wants to drink, that’s his business. What I want is for the put downs to stop. However, those only seem to happen following the drinking.
He can still function he isn’t the best helper but I can live with that. I am able to open up to him, but most of the time it’s a little bit like shooting myself in the foot. Because it always comes back to haunt me and he surely doesn’t share the same openness with me.

So far, I don’t really trust myself. I keep telling myself, this time I’m really leaving.. but unfortunately I keep drawing lines in the sand.
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:23 PM
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I know.. what a novel idea... LOL
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Old 02-17-2009, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by anvilhead View Post
so you want someone who is open and honest and forthright and treats you with respect as a full fledged partner in life?
And does wanting this sound selfish to you?

Sounds healthy to me.
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Old 02-17-2009, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by anvilhead View Post
so you want someone who is open and honest and forthright and treats you with respect as a full fledged partner in life?
This man, whoever he is, needs only to crook his little finger and I will come a-runnin' The day I realized that "healthy" had become synonymous with "sexy" was one of the happiest days I can remember....praying for the same for you, isitme!

Because you know what? It ISN'T you that's at fault here. You're trying to help yourself, he's trying to get you to help HIM.
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:17 AM
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For me if there is not intimacy (which disappeared when the trust and respect left) there is not sex. I know some people who can separate the two and sex is just the physical act. But also for me there is almost a visceral no thanks when he asks for sex--along the lines of WTF--are you that unaware.
I remember about a month ago saying these exact words to AH when I told him we needed to divorce or get a legal separation and that he needed to think about them before we had a serious discussion.

I told him that there were currently 3 things that were totally non-negotiable and were not going to change because of all that had happened:
1. I was never going to think it was OK for him to be an alcoholic and drug abuser. Those were things he could only do if he is not married to me.
2. I was never going to think it was OK for him to "be an artist--because that is who he is". He needed to financially participate in the family and that meant getting a job and doing his art at the same time. Being an artist is also something he can do without me. Note: leaving his art would also mean leaving the people he drinks and gets high with too.
3. He was never going to have sex again for the rest of his life unless he cheated on me because I was not interested because of everything that had happened-- that part of our marriage is dead. I had tried to revive it but discovered it is gone.

None of this was punitive on my part--it was just true. I am not interested in a physical relationship with a man who will not get a job to help support his family and has decided that alcohol and drugs are more important than me and his kids. I need the trust and respect and it is gone.

I don't think you are being selfish in any way.
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