sillysquirrel

Oh, I gotta hand it to you. You made me giggle. When you put it that way, it really makes sense. I am still giggling as I type this. Thank you for making me smile.

MeHandle

How you felt does not assume you had revenge , selfishness or resentment as your motive. Righteous anger is a good thing. Healthy anger is a form of protection. Understandably, your are a bit angry.

And again, doesn't change the fact you made the right choice. You will have to decide yourself if it was for the right reason.

>>Anyone have any thoughts on the attorney thing? Should I talk to him about it? I don't know what I would have to gain but my Mother seems to think I should. (I think that she thinks it will straighten him out if he knew, I don't think so).>>

It sounds like you are assuming what your mother thinks. So lets assume you're right. One option may be your mother is trying to persuade( or control) your actions because of her uncomfortable feelings. Another option may be your mother don't get what Bernadette said:You didn't Cause it.You can't Control it.You Can't Cure it. Could be both options.

If you believe it is not the wise thing to do , don't talk to him about it. And if you are still questioning, ask the advice of the attorney when you talk to him before you tell your husband anything.

love tam

silkspin

If he caught on to your 'leading by example' then he wouldn't be an A, he'd be helping you take care of the kids, would be working full time.....how much guilt should you really shoulder here? Please give yourself a break - you are going above and beyond trying to keep your sanity, take care of 4 kids, run a business AND deal with a drunken child of a husband.

Even if you did get up and help him, do you think he would appreciate anything you do all of a sudden? Doubtful. He's sick and in his sick mind everything will be twisted. You helped, then he'll blame you if he gets a bad mark that you didn't help him enough.

Let me ask a different angle - what example are your kids getting from all this? If I were you I'd focus on leading by example for them. Let your ADULT A deal with his own stuff.

sillysquirrel

Well, AH just called on his way home from work. Seems to be in a good mood and no mention of my refusal to help him last night. I guess that is a good thing. I just always help him whenever he asks so to me, it was a huge deal last night when I said no. Apparently it was a big deal to only me.

Now that I have spent all day trying to figure out what is wrong with me, something came to me. I think I was more concerned with the consequences of me saying no than feeling guilty about it. In other words, most of the time it is easier to just help him than to deal with the big scene that will follow if I don't. I am just so scared for my kids to keep witnessing his tantrums and outbursts. I am not scared of him...just hate when he does that in front of the kiddos.

Barbara52

I see this as an important revelation for you. Perhaps follow it up with questions about the whys you think and feel this way, whether this is how you want your life to be, whether this is how you want your children to learn adults behave.

BTW, your kids undoubtedly are very much aware of what is going on. Kids are little sponges soaking up everything in their environment and they see/hear/know a whole lot more than adults tend to recognize.

sillysquirrel

I absolutely agree. My oldest is 9. She adores her dad but despises his drinking and has gotten to the point where she will barely go anywhere with him. She tells me I should divorce him. My next child is 7. He is more quiet about it but has said to me that he hates when dad doesn't come home at night. He almost seems afraid to talk to his dad when he does come back and makes quiet comments to me for my ears only like I wonder if Dad will come home tonight. He never addresses this with his dad though. I think he is afraid he may trigger an argument (between AH and myself) if he did. My two younger kids seem to not notice anything but do ask where is Daddy? As soon has he gets home from a binge they run to him and will sit with him for an hour or more. They miss their Daddy and it brings me to tears as I sit here typing this because he just doesn't see the harm he brings to the family. The older kids do not even acknowledge him when he does walk through the door following a binge. They act as if they don't even see him. I suppose they have learned that from me but what kind of an example are we setting for them?

My AH has so many good qualities, that is why I married him. However, the alcohol just erases all of them and turns him into a completely different being. It is so simple to ME. If the alcohol is causing the problem, then remove the alcohol. Why can't he see it that way?

Why is alcohol higher on the priority list than the wife you claim to love and your own children? I will never understand this...

Barbara52

Neither will I. But that is exactly what addiction does to a person. It's not something we can understand because we are trying to use rational tought and logic and those just do not apply to addiction.

blessed4x

I read a book last fall by Barbara DeAngelo called "How did I Get Here?". Your thread made me think of it, and how we get secondary gain by doing and doing for others and then becoming the martyr. I didn't really want to look at that possibility, because I believed that everything I did was out of love and kindness. But I do have to admit that hearing "I don't know how you keep up with all 4 kids and it seems like you are the one to do EVERYTHING for them" felt pretty good. My way of controlling everyone and everything in my life was "doing". I still struggle with giving up the control.

I would highly recommend the book.....I know you are a busy lady, but there were more "aha" moments in the book than any other I've read in a long time. It sounds like you are having the same problem I did with putting yourself first. It seemed so selfish to me at first. Someone here compared it to being on a plane and getting instructions to put on your own oxygen mask before that of your children. If you don't take care of you, you won't be any help to them. You are doing great with processing all of this quickly, and it seems like you've come a long way in a short time!

silkspin

Sillysquirrel, I've cried over those same sentiments many a night. When I was in bed, 8 months pregnant, at 2am, wondering where the hell he was and why he wasn't home cuddling me and his soon to be born daughter.

I found a book at the library when looking for an al anon book - can't remember the name but similar resources are available on the Internet. This book really helped me understand the physiology of addiction. It modifies the pleasure centers of the brain and causes intense cravings and compulsions to pursue the addiction (to the ends of the earth). When I read that I finally understood that his brain has actually changed - and that's why they continue to do it despite the wife, the children, family, friends... because the pleasure associated with the addictive substance is so strong that 'normal' things can't just don't cut it anymore. I know that such an 'unemotional' explanation may not be what you're looking for, but for me it was a big illumination of what I was up against. I'd lose everytime, no matter what I would dangle in front of him. It really helped me see things more clearly, and helps me cope.

silkspin

just looked the book up on our public library website. Addict in the Family by Beverly Conyers. I read it cover to cover a few times and I think I'm going to buy it - I found it when I was at my wits end and just as I started al anon and it was a helpful read for me.

Chrysalis123

What are your children learning by watching how you handle this situation? What advice would you give them if their spouse behaved as their father does?

Daisy30

This got me thinking....

As a mom.... What would you do if one of your children were tantrumming? Say they didn't want to go to bed? Would you let them stay up just to avoid the tantrum? or Would you make them go to bed anyway? and if you made them go to bed anyway, after a few nights of you not giving in would the kid still tantrum? or would the child have learned that you were not giving in on this situation and go to bed when asked?

It is very uncomfortable to the A's in our life when we start changing....

Also, I wanted to say great job an saying "no".

jaguarpcb

Or maybe you didn't get up and help him because it was not your responsibility, because you were sleeping, because you had to get up early the next day so you could get some work done before the kids got up.

It would be different if you had been sitting in a chair doing nothing more than twiddling your thumbs and he asked for your help and you refused just to refuse. But you were sleeping, trying to get enough sleep so that you could get some work done before the kids got up, trying to take care of your responsibilities. The fact that he had acted irresponsibly in not having his assignment done when it was due in half an hour is not your fault, it's not your problem to fix. If he needed your help he could have asked for it earlier in the day when you weren't asleep!

sillysquirrel

Well, I thought he had let it go, but he hadn't...

Last night, I asked if I should turn the laptop off or would he be using it. He said "go ahead and turn it off. I am not going to stress myself out over that class anymore".
"Why" I ask.
He says "I can't do it by myself and you won't help me. I'll probably fail the assignment because of you. And, I just don't have the time when I am working".

Now, I would say he has worked 6-7 days in the last month. My theory is that he doesn't like to have any additional responsibility and it is cutting in to his drinking time.

Anyway, he went on and on and on about how I am not supportive of him. When I brought up his last binge last weekend and how I needed his help with the kids so I could get caught up, he simply said that is over with and he is here now. But will he be here tomorrow? You never know and can never count on him or believe anything he says. BTW, this was a calm disagreement. Not the screaming and shouting that I am used to with him. Not quite sure why but I am grateful for that.

So, I go on to tell him that he is an alcoholic and that he just completely drains me both emotionally and physically. I get nothing in return from him. I just can't keep living like this.

Well, his theory is that alcoholism is a disease, just like cancer. Would I leave him if he had cancer? (I have not told him of plans to see a lawyer or anything of leaving him, he must just sense it) Would I leave him if he had depression? ( My mother is in remission from cancer and my father had a stroke which he has fully recovered from but it left him depressed. They are both 60 so still young. Needless to say it has been a rough couple of years but so far so good). Anyway, it angers me how he always brings my family into it. So, I tell him that my mother got help for her cancer, now she is better. My father got help for his depression(saw a doctor, got on medication and cut his drinking to 2-3 beers a week) now he is better. What are you (AH) doing to get better? No response. He has not admitted he is an alcoholic.


He also expressed anger at me for calling my nephew who just started a new school. I told my nephew that I was just calling to see how his first day went and that I was thinking of him all day. AH didn't like that. I don't show concern for him (AH) that way.

He goes on and on about how I am a miserable human being, just never happy. I say that's not fair. I am happy, just not with him. How do you support an alcoholic if they refuse to change their ways?

Techie1701

Um, so he wants you to treat him like a child? Who has just started in a new school?

Why does he expect you to help him with his assignment (genuine question, wondering if you two had an agreement or anything)? If your child, in say high school, came to you asking you for help with an assignment that they were perfectly capable of doing themselves, would you help them? Should you help them? I know when I was studying, it was expected that the work you submitted was your own, getting someone to help was called 'cheating', don't know if the class he is taking is different??

Blondie

I saw that you were feeling guilty for not helping him with his schoolwork, BUT if he was the one taking care of the kids, working, taking care of the house and everything else AND you were the one working a few times a month and taking one class and decided to wait until the last minute to do your assignment and going out whenever you wanted -- well, would you wake him up out of a deep sleep and have him help you with your schoolwork? If he was to tired and said no, would you act the way he did. Probably not because it is very childish and inconsiderate.

What if your best friend told you that her husband was treating her this way - what would you say?

My stepdad just died of lung cancer (had COPD too) a few weeks ago, and he tried every treatment possible beforehand to stop the cancer. Yes alcoholism is a disease, but a lot of times that is used as an excuse not to get treatment, but people get treated for cancer and diabetes etc. all of the time. If they denied themselves treatment and just accepted the disease they would all surely die. Why is alcoholism considered different - it needs treatment too!

Barbara52

I would proceed with the plans to talk to an attorney and find out your options. I would not tell him what you are planning till you had either.

Blondie

That is what I did - I talked to an attorney without telling my AH. If you did tell him he would try to manipulate you into not doing what is in your best interest and that is finding out what your choices are for you and your children.

jaguarpcb

The most important thing for you to do is take care of yourself. You can't make him better, he has to see the need and do it himself. All of the talking does nothing to convince him, because in his own head he has no problem, it's all you.

Think about it from that perspective....if he's convinced you are a miserable human being, that you are always wrong, that your inaction indicates that you don't love him enough, is there really anything you are going to say that's going to change his mind? He's convinced you are broken, therefore everything he hears from your mouth is wrong because it's being said by a broken person. I know that's harsh, but that's likely what's going on in his head.

The best thing you can do for him is not enable him, and take care of yourself. And look at that! That's also the best thing you can do for yourself and your children!

Hang in there....I know it's hard to change how you deal with things, and it can be painful too. But you aren't actually helping anyone by neglecting yourself and doing his work for him.

silkspin

So, by his theory - tell him to stop talking about the damned assignment. It's over with and we're in the here and now, right?

Actually, I don't think you should tell him ANYTHING. I think you see here that you can go on forever. Do you see how vicious this cycle is? He'll blame YOU for it all - helping and getting a bad mark, not helping, looking at him the wrong way or asking if he wants dinner while he's trying to work and disrupting his concentration. Then it'll be the next thing, and the next thing.....

Would you leave him if he had a different disease? Well in those cases most people don't live with the abuse that seems to come with THIS disease. Not a valid comparison in my eyes. But it shouldn't matter what he thinks anyways; it matters how you feel, and you alone. He can tell you lots of things. Really pretty empty at this point considering his actions. Anyhow, if you're so miserable and unsupportive, why does he want you around? So in his thinking, he'd actually be better off without you, no? You'd be doing him a favour by leaving.