Truth
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
TC
Ouch... your post made me remember similar situations whereby the XAH says it was all MY problem ... of course he is not going to say to his friends "I abused her trust various times drunk as hell and I still prefer drinkining above all" Oh no. Distorsions of reality, another thing I do not miss.
I hate it that they tell you one thing but are really thinking something entirely different and talking behind your back. That is cowardly and low. I am looking for honest people in my life now.
I agree that taking off the pink glasses these ways hurts a lot
But ultimately anger is there to make you move forward... please do not keep it inside, do you do any sport or something physical?
All the best to you TC, I agree you are an example of grace.
Ouch... your post made me remember similar situations whereby the XAH says it was all MY problem ... of course he is not going to say to his friends "I abused her trust various times drunk as hell and I still prefer drinkining above all" Oh no. Distorsions of reality, another thing I do not miss.
I hate it that they tell you one thing but are really thinking something entirely different and talking behind your back. That is cowardly and low. I am looking for honest people in my life now.
I agree that taking off the pink glasses these ways hurts a lot
But ultimately anger is there to make you move forward... please do not keep it inside, do you do any sport or something physical?
All the best to you TC, I agree you are an example of grace.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 167
Can I just say your husband is a FOOL. He will never have someone as special as you again. Someday when he is all alone, he will think of you and probably feel the worst pain and regret a human can indure and hopefully, you'll be on a beach making mad pasionate love to some super wonderful man. A real man. Hugs to you TC!
Forum Leader
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In my little piece of heaven
Posts: 2,870
Perhaps you can take a deep breath or two, and focus on what's in front of you. That's what I have to do when presented with a bunch of overwhelming stuff. You have a big test and some business things to take care of.... those are things you have control over, so they deserve your attention.
Good luck on the test!
Good luck on the test!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by justaboutus 
All I can thing is... It's just words. He says what he needs to say to keep you.
He wants to be perceived as a guy who is loving being 'single' when he's really NOT single at all. When this happened to me, what I saw was a 'young man' who had bravely gone off to be on his own, while still knowing that 'his mother' was at home whenever he needed her (sorry if that sounds offensive - it's just how I saw it in my case).
Trust me that ANY contact you give him, is enabling him in every way. He does have the 'best of both worlds' now in the sense that you are not there 24/7 to read him the riot act AND you have no influence over what he does or says and he can be anyone he wants and present whatever he wants (which is nowhere near what the truth is). It doesn't matter whether he's drunk or sober. He's maintaining the personna that he wants to give to the world.
If you cut him off from everything, except the contact with your son, there's a strong likelihood that he will replace you (his enabler) with a new one. If you're like me (and your situation is much like mine was) you know that is inevitable, and once that happens, IT REALLY WILL BE OVER. So, ultimately, it seems as though there is still that part of you which is holding on to the dream that he will get better, and is still trying to believe that 'you are and always will be his one and only'.
I've since learned that an alcoholic is directed by what works for his alcoholism. Sober or drunk - the plan is always what gives him his 'highs'. It's not about you (other than your enabling), it's not about the OW - who he can pretend with - to being a great guy - and it's not about his friends, who he can also deceive into believing that the problem is never because of him.
The sad thing I learned from my experience (I am still learning because I allowed him back) Not because I didn't enjoy that peacefulness you describe - but because we couldn't afford 2 residences and our house is going to be difficult to sell). I was the one who helped him find a place and sent him packing. I'm also not going to lie and say that I still didn't have that part of me wishing that he would come to realize that I was the best of any world. I KNOW I am - that is - when I'm giving into his drinking and allowing him to 'be' the alcoholic his is, with no repercussions. Knowing that does not give me solace.
I can only say that I wish that I could have afforded to move on, and while I'm here giving him his last chance to get sober and find out if there's a possibility for us to have a healthy, happy relationship - I'm still very much making plans to work the final ending (with HIS help and not while he is gallavanting 'single' around town), get the house sold and start a new life. I really hope that you don't keep the 'insanity' going any longer than is absolutely necessary.
This is your opportunity to 'take care of you' and give yourself permission to go on a nice trip too, instead of just receiving HIS itineraries ...
Yield beautiful changes
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: A home filled with love
Posts: 1,698
I appreciate everyone's replies.
I'm up late studying for my exam and doing a little thinking.
What I read today was not surprising. It was hurtful, but it would be silly of me to think that my husband would be telling his friends the actual TRUTH about the reasons behind our separation. It would be silly of me to think that he wants me around all the time when my presence limits his access to alcohol. Of course he needs to "get away" from me - I'm a strong reminder of his irresponsibility, his sickness, his problems.
So - today I read some words that told me what I already knew. Sucks to see it in print, but it confirms some stuff for me. I think he loves me as much as he is able, but I don't think that it's the kind of love that I need. It's not the kind that I thrive on.
For a while now, knowing that I'm not going to get the love that I want from an alcoholic partner, I've been settling for some very pleasant physical intimacy. I do know that it is settling, but up to this point I haven't felt cheapened in the process. Well, today I feel a little cheap - but that's a new development - I'll have to process that for a bit.
There's a part of me that feels I deserve to have some decent sex while I plot out my course - perhaps it is childish of me. I think I feel a bit like that's the one thing that AH can actually, reliably deliver - and I want to take advantage. Sheesh. It's a marital area that is free from guilt, responsibility, and negative history and it really makes me wince to think about going without that peace and pleasure.
Of course, in the long run I want more than just sex and a sometimes partner who drinks alcoholically and lies. So, I must take action towards that long term goal. I guess I feel like I've been moving in the right direction for the past few months, but I'm hesitant to let go of the one consistently positive part of my relationship. Maybe I'm hoping that my desire for AH will decrease over time as I move forward with my plans (moving, finishing school, applying for residency)?
I'll say that reading that email sure put a damper on my libido - I suppose that's a step in the right direction!
I'm up late studying for my exam and doing a little thinking.
What I read today was not surprising. It was hurtful, but it would be silly of me to think that my husband would be telling his friends the actual TRUTH about the reasons behind our separation. It would be silly of me to think that he wants me around all the time when my presence limits his access to alcohol. Of course he needs to "get away" from me - I'm a strong reminder of his irresponsibility, his sickness, his problems.
So - today I read some words that told me what I already knew. Sucks to see it in print, but it confirms some stuff for me. I think he loves me as much as he is able, but I don't think that it's the kind of love that I need. It's not the kind that I thrive on.
For a while now, knowing that I'm not going to get the love that I want from an alcoholic partner, I've been settling for some very pleasant physical intimacy. I do know that it is settling, but up to this point I haven't felt cheapened in the process. Well, today I feel a little cheap - but that's a new development - I'll have to process that for a bit.
There's a part of me that feels I deserve to have some decent sex while I plot out my course - perhaps it is childish of me. I think I feel a bit like that's the one thing that AH can actually, reliably deliver - and I want to take advantage. Sheesh. It's a marital area that is free from guilt, responsibility, and negative history and it really makes me wince to think about going without that peace and pleasure.
Of course, in the long run I want more than just sex and a sometimes partner who drinks alcoholically and lies. So, I must take action towards that long term goal. I guess I feel like I've been moving in the right direction for the past few months, but I'm hesitant to let go of the one consistently positive part of my relationship. Maybe I'm hoping that my desire for AH will decrease over time as I move forward with my plans (moving, finishing school, applying for residency)?
I'll say that reading that email sure put a damper on my libido - I suppose that's a step in the right direction!
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
For me it wasn't possible to move forward in my life while I was still hanging on to my former life. It's scary to cut the last ties. It feels like cutting a safety net or a life-line. But it was a necessary ending. Without it, I wouldn't have the new life I have today. And yes, TC, you can have it all and you will have it all once you firmly believe you deserve it.
Recovering Codependant
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Liverpool, Great Britain
Posts: 1,335
I love the sense of realisation in that post TC. You sound as though you are getting to were you know in your head you should be.
As for the sex part, for me sex is not just physical or emtional, it is a spiritual experience where I feel I am connecting with my partner on a level we alone share and sharing a very intimate part of spirit with each other. It deepens my bond to that person.
When I was with abf, one thing that hit me and crushed me was the realisation that sex to him was physical, full stop. His need to have it was what drove him to seek me out. He did not see or experience sex in the deep meaningful way that I did, it was a means to an end for him and that was all.
So where I thought our relationship was cemented and strengthened through sexual relations, he just saw it as an act of lust.
Having that type of sex is fine, and enjoyable, but for me his obvious difference of emotional connection to me was highlighted by our different approach to sex and it in turn highlighted a major problem in our relationship.
Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
As for the sex part, for me sex is not just physical or emtional, it is a spiritual experience where I feel I am connecting with my partner on a level we alone share and sharing a very intimate part of spirit with each other. It deepens my bond to that person.
When I was with abf, one thing that hit me and crushed me was the realisation that sex to him was physical, full stop. His need to have it was what drove him to seek me out. He did not see or experience sex in the deep meaningful way that I did, it was a means to an end for him and that was all.
So where I thought our relationship was cemented and strengthened through sexual relations, he just saw it as an act of lust.
Having that type of sex is fine, and enjoyable, but for me his obvious difference of emotional connection to me was highlighted by our different approach to sex and it in turn highlighted a major problem in our relationship.
Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Hi TC,
I'm sorry this had to happen, but I think you agree it is useful in seeing the difference between how he REALLY views your relationship, and how you THOUGHT he had been viewing your relationship.
The sentences that stuck out the most from this whole painful thread (gosh, we love you) were these from Mike:
I agree, and would add "no matter how good the present has been." I hold the same views as you do on sex (it can be a fun and friendly activity in certain scenarios), but I could no longer even be sexually attracted to someone who betrayed and cheapened me like that. You call it denial of his problem, I call it a sniveling, cowardly thing to do and say, and as I do not suffer cowards well, my anger welled up when I read your post. We knew he was self-centered; but to share this with others - to be more intimate about his feelings with THEM than with ME? That kind of disloyalty is like a kidney punch; it buckles my knees with fury and despair. I would find more enjoyment getting my physical satisfaction with a kind, healthy, agreeable stranger, I'm afraid, than with someone who would say such things. But that's just me.
Now that my anger has subsided, I'm sending healing thoughts for your well-being today. I hope you do well today with all your responsibilities and challenges. I expect a recipe for those enchiladas. And I'll be thinking about you as I move through MY day.
:ghug3
I'm sorry this had to happen, but I think you agree it is useful in seeing the difference between how he REALLY views your relationship, and how you THOUGHT he had been viewing your relationship.
The sentences that stuck out the most from this whole painful thread (gosh, we love you) were these from Mike:
You know, my life is wonderful too, and under no circumstances would I allow somebody in my life that sent that kind of email. No matter how good the past had been.
Now that my anger has subsided, I'm sending healing thoughts for your well-being today. I hope you do well today with all your responsibilities and challenges. I expect a recipe for those enchiladas. And I'll be thinking about you as I move through MY day.
:ghug3
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 530
I hear my exah talks about me this way too. HE could never get back with me. I am the one with the problems. Yet, he has been asking me about my boyfriend (I dont' have one, he just thinks I do??) all weekend.
The one thing I am worried about is you having sex with this guy...are you sure he isn't having sex with other women too? That would be putting you in a dangerous position. The way he has behaved I wouldn't trust that he isn't.
The one thing I am worried about is you having sex with this guy...are you sure he isn't having sex with other women too? That would be putting you in a dangerous position. The way he has behaved I wouldn't trust that he isn't.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: looking for the sun in cold MN
Posts: 775
Ah TC- what a great thread- and something that has given me a lot of food for thought.
In my situation STBXAH decided he wanted to separate- but then dragged his feet for a few weeks while looking for a place to live. My therapist told me to move into our spare bedroom. I thought it seemed so negative, but she told me I needed to "act" like a woman who is separated from my husband. (no sex) Of course, the whole idea scared the krap out of me, because at the time I didn't want him to leave. Looking back, I think what he was doing was holding leaving over my head in order to get what he wanted from me- to take on all the blame and let him do what he wanted with his life.
3 weeks after he made his announcement- and I was living on pins and needles- I found a note he had written and part of it included his thoughts on a woman he works with- how amazing she is. I lost it. That very night I told him to leave, and he hasn't been back since. I believe what others have said about things just having a way of coming into our lives- like the note, like those emails. The writing on the wall was too hard for me to ignore. I also wonder if he planted it there for me to find- and maybe your AH did the same. Who knows. The facts are clear- you can quibble over whether he sent those to you on purpose or not. It's still there in black and white. Now- what do you do about it?
I just could no longer ignore the fact that my STBXAH did not make our marriage a priority. No matter how much effort I put into it, I was getting very little back- and as others have said on this forum- I was tired to my soul. You sound so strong to me. You are so thoughtful and seem to be living a full life- on your own. It is scary taking that next step, but it can be done. I'm doing it, and am grateful I found that note- as hard as it was to read. It just pushed me to do what I was afraid of.
(((Take care)))
In my situation STBXAH decided he wanted to separate- but then dragged his feet for a few weeks while looking for a place to live. My therapist told me to move into our spare bedroom. I thought it seemed so negative, but she told me I needed to "act" like a woman who is separated from my husband. (no sex) Of course, the whole idea scared the krap out of me, because at the time I didn't want him to leave. Looking back, I think what he was doing was holding leaving over my head in order to get what he wanted from me- to take on all the blame and let him do what he wanted with his life.
3 weeks after he made his announcement- and I was living on pins and needles- I found a note he had written and part of it included his thoughts on a woman he works with- how amazing she is. I lost it. That very night I told him to leave, and he hasn't been back since. I believe what others have said about things just having a way of coming into our lives- like the note, like those emails. The writing on the wall was too hard for me to ignore. I also wonder if he planted it there for me to find- and maybe your AH did the same. Who knows. The facts are clear- you can quibble over whether he sent those to you on purpose or not. It's still there in black and white. Now- what do you do about it?
I just could no longer ignore the fact that my STBXAH did not make our marriage a priority. No matter how much effort I put into it, I was getting very little back- and as others have said on this forum- I was tired to my soul. You sound so strong to me. You are so thoughtful and seem to be living a full life- on your own. It is scary taking that next step, but it can be done. I'm doing it, and am grateful I found that note- as hard as it was to read. It just pushed me to do what I was afraid of.
(((Take care)))
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Someplace USA
Posts: 415
I think your brave for just being out on your own. If we are looking for honesty... The one your hubby really loves is that bottle. My AH loves her the most too. So it doesn't matter how much they want us or say they do; IT will always be first.
I've also always thought that my husband would make a much better "boyfriend" then a spouse. Not the live in kind, the booty call kind. You know when he's trying he can be pleasant. It's just with the alcohol thing, he just can't be any kind of husband or father or human. So I understand holding on to him for sex. But at some point I would want real deep conversation, to be allowed to have emotions... to really be me... When your ready and you make a clean break from him too... Take some time and write down what you really want... Then get all that and sex too... I think that's what you deserve!!! Prayin' for you girl!!!
I've also always thought that my husband would make a much better "boyfriend" then a spouse. Not the live in kind, the booty call kind. You know when he's trying he can be pleasant. It's just with the alcohol thing, he just can't be any kind of husband or father or human. So I understand holding on to him for sex. But at some point I would want real deep conversation, to be allowed to have emotions... to really be me... When your ready and you make a clean break from him too... Take some time and write down what you really want... Then get all that and sex too... I think that's what you deserve!!! Prayin' for you girl!!!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 530
I just had another thought...Your husband sounds alot like mine when we were separated for a year prior to getting back together.
I still slept with him the entire time. I was thinking if I gave him sex he wouldn't look elsewhere until we could work on our issues. I was wrong. He did. He had it with me and at least one other woman. I eventually got pregnant and we got back together, but his lies and drinking kept up.
Just the way your H talks and boasts about his great life he has is do disrespectful. He does have it all. He can still drink, he can have sex with his wife when he wants, see his son when he wants and the rest of the time be a single guy.
Please put up some boundaries and not let him cake eat.
I still slept with him the entire time. I was thinking if I gave him sex he wouldn't look elsewhere until we could work on our issues. I was wrong. He did. He had it with me and at least one other woman. I eventually got pregnant and we got back together, but his lies and drinking kept up.
Just the way your H talks and boasts about his great life he has is do disrespectful. He does have it all. He can still drink, he can have sex with his wife when he wants, see his son when he wants and the rest of the time be a single guy.
Please put up some boundaries and not let him cake eat.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
TC,
I am with everyone else, especially Give love. I don't know you or your husband. However, I think he is a A***hole for writing that. Disrespectful and cheap don't begin to describe it. He is boasting about using you. What a jerk! You love him and are the mother of his child regardless of your marital situation. There is a reverance there that HE doesn't care about.
I hope your exam went well and good luck for the strength to take care of yourself.
I am with everyone else, especially Give love. I don't know you or your husband. However, I think he is a A***hole for writing that. Disrespectful and cheap don't begin to describe it. He is boasting about using you. What a jerk! You love him and are the mother of his child regardless of your marital situation. There is a reverance there that HE doesn't care about.
I hope your exam went well and good luck for the strength to take care of yourself.
Yield beautiful changes
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: A home filled with love
Posts: 1,698
Thank you to everyone.
I have this jolt of adrenaline running through my system - there's this new knowledge just breaking through and refusing to be forced back down.
No matter how I twist or turn I can't escape the fact that my marriage is over.
The deep and intimate trust is gone. The loving and kind respect is gone.
For a while there I was able to maintain the illusion of those emotions by greatly restricting my access to my husband - only allowing myself to experience him when he was in top form. But that top form is falling away and lies are creeping into every aspect of our relationship.
I have never had any reason to believe that P would be unfaithful to me. I have never seen any evidence of infidelity - but telling an ex-girlfriend that he was looking forward to seeing her and needed to get away from his wife - well, I don't know how I could interpret that as anything but (at the very least) a hint that he's semi-available. It may be much more than that.
I don't think that he is having an affair, but I honestly don't KNOW that he isn't. I don't trust what he tells me about alcohol, and, now, I don't trust what he tells me about sex.
How is that big, snowballing lack of trust going to lead this relationship anywhere good?
How is this separation "healing" us?
It's not.
He can be single.
So can I.
I will be free from the dead weight of this relationship.
I feel sad - I have been a good and faithful partner to him, a loving mother to his child, and a willing friend and open mind.
But, let's call him my STBXAH from now until I get to take the STB part off.
No more nonsense.
-TC
I have this jolt of adrenaline running through my system - there's this new knowledge just breaking through and refusing to be forced back down.
No matter how I twist or turn I can't escape the fact that my marriage is over.
The deep and intimate trust is gone. The loving and kind respect is gone.
For a while there I was able to maintain the illusion of those emotions by greatly restricting my access to my husband - only allowing myself to experience him when he was in top form. But that top form is falling away and lies are creeping into every aspect of our relationship.
I have never had any reason to believe that P would be unfaithful to me. I have never seen any evidence of infidelity - but telling an ex-girlfriend that he was looking forward to seeing her and needed to get away from his wife - well, I don't know how I could interpret that as anything but (at the very least) a hint that he's semi-available. It may be much more than that.
I don't think that he is having an affair, but I honestly don't KNOW that he isn't. I don't trust what he tells me about alcohol, and, now, I don't trust what he tells me about sex.
How is that big, snowballing lack of trust going to lead this relationship anywhere good?
How is this separation "healing" us?
It's not.
He can be single.
So can I.
I will be free from the dead weight of this relationship.
I feel sad - I have been a good and faithful partner to him, a loving mother to his child, and a willing friend and open mind.
But, let's call him my STBXAH from now until I get to take the STB part off.
No more nonsense.
-TC
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
I think it took a lot of courage to post the contents of that e-mail and even more courage to listen with an open mind to the feedback you received from folks who aren't emotionally involved in the situation. It's easier for us to see things clearly. The moment love enters the picture for me, that's when it gets hard.
I think you need time to absorb everything and then decide what's the best course of action for you. Today is probably not that day.
I think you need time to absorb everything and then decide what's the best course of action for you. Today is probably not that day.
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