Guilt and My Son
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Someplace USA
Posts: 415
Guilt and My Son
My son is 17 he is from my exAH who we haven't seen in years. I've been married to my current AH for the past 8 years. My son started dating a girl from a very problematic family about 6 months ago. She is the sister of his best friend who went into the marines. I felt they got too close too fast; but worse then that her mother has been verbally abusing him. He is a type A personality and hard to deal with. I've been able to put my foot down and limit his time at her house due to the mom.
Between the girl and the mom; he has stopped hanging out with anyone but her. He now is always angry and constantly is degrading and disrespectful to women. It feels as if my loving son is becoming the same kind of monster as the addicts in my life. I've talked with him. Fought with him. I'm trying to pick my battles here. I have NO good male role models. I'm seeing red flags everyplace! I'm worried that by the time I get away from my AH, I'm going to be living with a whole other monster.
I don't know what to do. I feel telling him to break-up with her will just drive them closer. That's what the problems with the mom has done. In fact if it wasn't for that; a few times he may have already broken up with her.
I feel like some of this is my fault with my own bad relationship. Not knowing what was happening with this mom sooner. And I'm guilty because I'm so sick of dealing with crap in my life I would really like to ship him off to my EX and tell him to deal with Pre-man ball of anger!!! I've tried putting him in Al-Ateen and therapy; he's above that. Honestly, when I read the red flag post I see my own son in some of those and it breaks my heart!!! I'm doing all I can and he just keeps going the wrong way and I can't get him to put the breaks on.
The worst part is I brought him into these bad relationships; I'm responsible for this....
How long do you cry over that?
Between the girl and the mom; he has stopped hanging out with anyone but her. He now is always angry and constantly is degrading and disrespectful to women. It feels as if my loving son is becoming the same kind of monster as the addicts in my life. I've talked with him. Fought with him. I'm trying to pick my battles here. I have NO good male role models. I'm seeing red flags everyplace! I'm worried that by the time I get away from my AH, I'm going to be living with a whole other monster.
I don't know what to do. I feel telling him to break-up with her will just drive them closer. That's what the problems with the mom has done. In fact if it wasn't for that; a few times he may have already broken up with her.
I feel like some of this is my fault with my own bad relationship. Not knowing what was happening with this mom sooner. And I'm guilty because I'm so sick of dealing with crap in my life I would really like to ship him off to my EX and tell him to deal with Pre-man ball of anger!!! I've tried putting him in Al-Ateen and therapy; he's above that. Honestly, when I read the red flag post I see my own son in some of those and it breaks my heart!!! I'm doing all I can and he just keeps going the wrong way and I can't get him to put the breaks on.
The worst part is I brought him into these bad relationships; I'm responsible for this....
How long do you cry over that?
No Codie No More.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 155
sorry to hear..
from my experience, I changed alot since I met Ax$ (figure that one out lol)..
I used to be a gentleman, opened doors, paid for everything, cared about her, wanted to spend alot of time with her etc.. that sort of waste of time.
now I could hardly care what other people think, if they like me or want to hang out with me. what you see is what you get type of personality. say whats on my mind, could care less how you feel.. if you don't like it there is the door type of scenerio.
next gf will probably get the brunt of it but this is just my experience.
from my experience, I changed alot since I met Ax$ (figure that one out lol)..
I used to be a gentleman, opened doors, paid for everything, cared about her, wanted to spend alot of time with her etc.. that sort of waste of time.
now I could hardly care what other people think, if they like me or want to hang out with me. what you see is what you get type of personality. say whats on my mind, could care less how you feel.. if you don't like it there is the door type of scenerio.
next gf will probably get the brunt of it but this is just my experience.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Children learn what they see modeled for them, not what you tell them to do. I know the guilt of putting my children in the position of having dysfunctional role models. It breaks my heart, too. But, you cannot undo the past. The best way to have a positive influence on your son is to be a healthy role model for him. Show him that you value yourself. Show him that men who are disrespectful and abusive do not get rewarded with a loving, dedicated spouse. In other words, show him how to live a healthy life. 
L
L
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
It was (and is) extremely hard to watch my children exhibit unhealthy behaviors. It's even harder to accept that they learned a lot of it from me. It was and remains one of the primary motiviations for me to live a healthy life.
L
L
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
Hey brundle--
Keep looking for ways to model healthy behavior for your son!
I think the most devastating but right on advice I ever got about child-rearing was from a kindergarten teacher: "Let us be worthy of their imitation."
Try not to dwell on all that you see is "wrong." I know it is hard but look for those times when he is acting in acceptable ways and smile and be warm!
Some stuff I have found that helps with boys:
My boys get cagey when I confront directly and "need to have a talk." I've found (with 2 sons and 3 brothers) that the best talks we've had are when we are doing something else. Chopping firewood. Moving furniture. Washing the car. Hiking. Fishing. My boys don't like the spotlight so if there is somewhere to put their attention and be physical they are more likely to open up. Also as they get older (17 & 14 now) I realize - they don't have to "open up" to me and it is unfair of me to expect it. They need their privacy, they aren't little kids and when I demand an "explanation" I might just start a fight or get stonewalled.
But when I treat them with adult expectations they respond really well. That doesn't mean my expectations of the kind of adult I think they should be! I mean, treat them with a respect for their autonomy. So I try to bring up concepts rather than pinpoint what I see as their problems, failings, weaknesses. I use my own life, and come from a place of open-minded, imperfect, thoughtful, seriousness.
I try (and again I'm using the word TRY over and over because perfection in this impossible!!!) to be aware of my own attitude, tone of voice, motives, and expectations.
My oldest will soon be 18 - we've been through enough of the typical teenage sh*t. If there is tension around an issue or arguing between us I try to de-escalate by trying hard to REALLY hear what he's saying: not just focusing on getting my point across. I give his viewpoint respect and remind myself that he is right where he is supposed to be in his understanding of the world - that he is not a sophisticated wordly thinker! And when I argue point by point with my "superior knowledge" or I throw his words back at him or try to put my hands all over stuff that really I should have no business trying to control I am only generating ill will. Sometimes the conversation has to end with a serious but calm: "Well I disagree, I feel that _________ (fill in blank) but I can see you feel differently, gives me something to think about."
It doesn't have to get nasty if I am mindful of my expectations!
I have to accept that the things that bother me about him are not going to be solved by one conversation with me...and some will be difficult things he takes with him out into the world where, like all of us, he must find his way to being the person he wants to be.
One way to help them learn to be thoughtful is to ask them to think. I've had good success by naming their feelings instead of giving advice (like, wow, that sounds really really frustrating or - you seem diappointed - or angry) and also by asking open-ended questions while really checking my motives -- in other words not manipulating or leading him down the solution path I think is best but asking "say another sentence about that...or...say that again in other words...or...I don't know why I feel so angry with what you're saying - help me to understand it better!"
So- just keep trying. I've found that even little changes in my attitude have a big impact on my kids - If I am arguing, bullying with my opinions, living in hypocritical ways to how I expect them to live, being close-minded and not listening - well that's what I get back!!
Easy does it-- it's a work in progress for the rest of your lives and 17-21 is a time of real change for kids, in themselves and in their relationships.
Good luck-- take good care of YOU too!
peace,
b.
Keep looking for ways to model healthy behavior for your son!
I think the most devastating but right on advice I ever got about child-rearing was from a kindergarten teacher: "Let us be worthy of their imitation."
Try not to dwell on all that you see is "wrong." I know it is hard but look for those times when he is acting in acceptable ways and smile and be warm!
Some stuff I have found that helps with boys:
My boys get cagey when I confront directly and "need to have a talk." I've found (with 2 sons and 3 brothers) that the best talks we've had are when we are doing something else. Chopping firewood. Moving furniture. Washing the car. Hiking. Fishing. My boys don't like the spotlight so if there is somewhere to put their attention and be physical they are more likely to open up. Also as they get older (17 & 14 now) I realize - they don't have to "open up" to me and it is unfair of me to expect it. They need their privacy, they aren't little kids and when I demand an "explanation" I might just start a fight or get stonewalled.
But when I treat them with adult expectations they respond really well. That doesn't mean my expectations of the kind of adult I think they should be! I mean, treat them with a respect for their autonomy. So I try to bring up concepts rather than pinpoint what I see as their problems, failings, weaknesses. I use my own life, and come from a place of open-minded, imperfect, thoughtful, seriousness.
I try (and again I'm using the word TRY over and over because perfection in this impossible!!!) to be aware of my own attitude, tone of voice, motives, and expectations.
My oldest will soon be 18 - we've been through enough of the typical teenage sh*t. If there is tension around an issue or arguing between us I try to de-escalate by trying hard to REALLY hear what he's saying: not just focusing on getting my point across. I give his viewpoint respect and remind myself that he is right where he is supposed to be in his understanding of the world - that he is not a sophisticated wordly thinker! And when I argue point by point with my "superior knowledge" or I throw his words back at him or try to put my hands all over stuff that really I should have no business trying to control I am only generating ill will. Sometimes the conversation has to end with a serious but calm: "Well I disagree, I feel that _________ (fill in blank) but I can see you feel differently, gives me something to think about."
It doesn't have to get nasty if I am mindful of my expectations!
I have to accept that the things that bother me about him are not going to be solved by one conversation with me...and some will be difficult things he takes with him out into the world where, like all of us, he must find his way to being the person he wants to be.
One way to help them learn to be thoughtful is to ask them to think. I've had good success by naming their feelings instead of giving advice (like, wow, that sounds really really frustrating or - you seem diappointed - or angry) and also by asking open-ended questions while really checking my motives -- in other words not manipulating or leading him down the solution path I think is best but asking "say another sentence about that...or...say that again in other words...or...I don't know why I feel so angry with what you're saying - help me to understand it better!"
So- just keep trying. I've found that even little changes in my attitude have a big impact on my kids - If I am arguing, bullying with my opinions, living in hypocritical ways to how I expect them to live, being close-minded and not listening - well that's what I get back!!
Easy does it-- it's a work in progress for the rest of your lives and 17-21 is a time of real change for kids, in themselves and in their relationships.
Good luck-- take good care of YOU too!
peace,
b.
Last edited by Bernadette; 01-30-2009 at 07:46 AM.
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