is he dancing on my boundary?

Old 01-29-2009, 06:17 AM
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is he dancing on my boundary?

You know you’re sick when you don’t even know if your boundaries are being trampled. I said AH has to find a job and do it fast or I’m out. I know he’s been asking around for contacts, which is good. However I’ve been watching his activity on a forum he’s fond of and he’s posting 30+ times a day. And these aren’t “how to find a job” postings they’re vulgar and profane posts just to shock people. I’m thinking… these are not the actions of someone looking for a job to save his marriage. What do you think?
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Old 01-29-2009, 06:58 AM
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Well, boundaries that hinge on someone else doing something are the toughest to enforce. In fact, when you frame a boundary on "you do this, or I will do that" it's really more of a rule than a boundary. You might want to look at that. Go deeper. What is the reason you want him to find a job? Maybe there is a way of reframing the boundary so that the action is yours to take, not his.

For example: "I will not support you while you drink and refuse to work, if you do not contribute your share to the household expenses, I will find a place to live on my own where my only expenses will be mine."

This may not work in your situation, but if you look at your boundary and make it more about you and less about him, you will find you won't feel so helpless in enforcing it.

L
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Old 01-29-2009, 07:25 AM
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"I will not support you while you drink and refuse to work, if you do not contribute your share to the household expenses, I will find a place to live on my own where my only expenses will be mine."
I've already moved out due to his refusal to work.

I actually had started making ultimatums to him regarding his employment. I started making demands and then backed off and said I was wrong, I didn’t NEED him to do anything. Then stated I didn’t want to be married to a freeloader. I did say that I would leave if this continued. I don't know how to say that without it being an ultimatum.

I want him to get a job because I want him to live up to his promises. He’s been promising to get full time steady employment for seven years now and all I get is excuses and him telling me to “be patient” (among a mountain of other manipulative tactics). He throws out just enough crumbs to keep me around. I’m getting nothing out of this marriage and I want him to give me something. It’s all about him making a contribution.

My gut says this is another crumb.
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Old 01-29-2009, 07:42 AM
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what kind of "job" do you want him to have or what do you think he can handle right now?

a job in walmart, restaurants, golf clubs etc. or a career that requires responsibility?
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Old 01-29-2009, 07:51 AM
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Walmart would be fine. I'm not sure he could handle it. He's never been on time for work. Fortunately he's always had jobs where he could get away with it (working for family or working from home).
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Old 01-29-2009, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by justaboutus View Post
He’s been promising to get full time steady employment for seven years now and all I get is excuses and him telling me to “be patient” (among a mountain of other manipulative tactics).
So how many more years are you willing to settle for? Seriously.

What's a crumb worth to you? Another year, three years, five?

My life got so much better once I started living for myself and quit engaging in relationships with men incapable of a healthy and loving relationship.
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Old 01-29-2009, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by justaboutus View Post
I want him to get a job because I want him to live up to his promises. He’s been promising to get full time steady employment for seven years now and all I get is excuses and him telling me to “be patient” (among a mountain of other manipulative tactics). He throws out just enough crumbs to keep me around. I’m getting nothing out of this marriage and I want him to give me something. It’s all about him making a contribution.

My gut says this is another crumb.
Not even a crumb IMO.

So how long are you willing to put your one and only life on hold waiting for him to be the person you want him to be rather than the person he actually is?
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Old 01-29-2009, 08:19 AM
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That's what I'm thinking. My codie thinking gets so distorted, I just need to check myself sometimes. I've NEVER followed up before. I ALWAYS backed down. I'm nervous, but I'm more sick over what I've allowed to happen to my life.
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Old 01-29-2009, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by justaboutus View Post
I want him to get a job because I want him to live up to his promises. He’s been promising to get full time steady employment for seven years now and all I get is excuses and him telling me to “be patient” (among a mountain of other manipulative tactics).
Seven years of talk with no action to back it up? Seems to me you have been patient for a long time, maybe too long?

I wanted my H to live up to his promises, too. I wanted him to step up to the plate and be the husband and father I knew he could be. I wanted him to *fill in the blank.* When everything I wanted was *something* from him, I was miserable. I had to start looking at what I wanted *from me.*

What can you do that will make your life more the way you want it to be? Cause if you continue to look to him to make you happy, you will likely continue to be disappointed and miserable.

L
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Old 01-29-2009, 08:27 AM
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What do you think?

I think it used to be hilarious when people laid down 'ultimatums' when I was drinking.

I get them so wrapped up in their own mind that they'd go crazy, and they always blamed themselves!

I'd push their boundaries so far that their 'ultimatums' were ludicrous.

I'd make a liar out of them every time.

(Did you make the ultimatum? Well, were you lying? Do you expect him to NOT lie, when you lie yourself? Unless you were lying through your own teeth - shouldn't you do what you said you were going to do?)

I said AH has to find a job and do it fast or I’m out.

Well, um, gee, um, maybe not THAT fast...?
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Old 01-29-2009, 08:37 AM
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Finding a job is tough. You not only have to make contacts, you have to followup on those contacts, set up interviews, prepare resumes, and send thank-you notes. You have to be polite and punctual and motivated.

Making contacts is not getting a job.
It is a step - to be followed by many more steps in a timely fashion.
Do not get sucked into the notion that taking one step = meeting your needs.
Your needs are still there, still voiced, still unmet.
That's the reality.

Perhaps setting a personal, unspoken timeframe for this situation would be helpful. I mean, if it REALLY is a deal-breaker-completely-unacceptable situation for you if he continues to coast along without working, how long are you willing to wait to see the job emerge?

3 months?
6 months?
2 years?

I don't think that you need to share this information with him. It is an internal decision about how much lone financial responsibility you are willing to bear. Set your internal timeframe - go back to your separate residence and quietly watch what ensues.

If you say to yourself "If he hasn't found full-time employment in 3 months, then I will divorce," you give yourself 3 months of freedom from the daily "what's he doing, where's he posting, who's he calling" nightmare. You get to wake up everyday for 3 months and NOT think about whether or not he is employed!

Then, if the day circled in red on the calendar rolls around, and he doesn't have a job, you can decide what you want to do (after all, he wasn't even aware that the timeframe existed).
Another extension? Maybe you still want to be married? Maybe the job thing wasn't such a big deal afterall?
Or maybe you see his lack of action and can honestly, genuinely say, "I do not want to be married to you."

Time brings clarity.

-TC
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Old 01-29-2009, 10:22 AM
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So how long are you willing to put your one and only life on hold waiting for him to be the person you want him to be rather than the person he actually is?
If you say to yourself "If he hasn't found full-time employment in 3 months, then I will divorce," you give yourself 3 months of freedom from the daily "what's he doing, where's he posting, who's he calling" nightmare. You get to wake up everyday for 3 months and NOT think about whether or not he is employed!
Wisely put.

This decision rests with you, justaboutus. You already have enough data to make it.

Whether he chooses to grow up and work or not is his decision, and his alone.

Whether you want to remain in a marriage with someone this irresponsible is yours.

You may want to stop handing that decision to him, and make it yourself.
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Old 01-29-2009, 11:14 AM
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My husband is Jedi Master of Manipulation. He has no morals when it comes to getting what he wants. I've heard everything from "I promise to do better" to "I'm going to kill myself". He'll take part time jobs with the promise of full time employment (which never materializes). He'll take two or three part time jobs saying they equal a full time paycheck (which somehow never manages to happen). He'll start his own business again and again to avoid job hunting. He'll even take jobs for NO PAY and do those instead of paying jobs!!

He's so good at it, no one knows how little he actually works. His siblings, parents, and friends all think he's a sun up to sun down workaholic. I've helped him hide this and his drinking for years, sugar coating EVERYTHING. When I came out with the truth about 6 months ago to a counselor/friend, she didn't believe me. He has done an amazing snow job on everyone. I feel like I've been living in one of those cults that brainwashes people.

It didn't happen all at once. It happened slowly. I'm the frog in the pot of water that was heated up slowly until it was boiling.

It's amazing how sick we get.
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Old 01-29-2009, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by justaboutus View Post
It didn't happen all at once. It happened slowly. I'm the frog in the pot of water that was heated up slowly until it was boiling.

It's amazing how sick we get.
Yup, I was that frog too once upon a time.

OK. Now you are aware. You know you are in the boiling water. What are you going to do about this awareness? What comes next for you?
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:24 PM
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I really hate to give him more time... but I do wonder if he will respond positively to the recent changes in me. I'm NOT doing 3 more months of this. I'm thinking he has 30 days, and it started when he lost his job (which was the 27th). The evidence has to be concrete, like actual interviews (plural form) or an offer for FULL time employment. ANYONE can land some interviews within 30 days, even in this economy. If I hear anything about working for himself or any of the other lines he's used in the past, I'm filing IMMEDIATELY. Putting a reminder in my sig...
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Old 01-29-2009, 02:02 PM
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You know, Just, you can change your mind anytime you want. You can do whatever feels right in your gut. Does it even feel right thinking about giving him another chance when you know he's been posting "vulgar and profane posts just to shock people"?

Because, ewwww, is this really someone you want to stay married to? Sometimes they cross a line of no return, you know? And then you can say, naaaa, I change my mind on all of it. This one went too far and I'm out of here.

Just saying, cause you mentioned it in your original post....
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:51 AM
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justaboutus, how has he responded to you so far, for the last 7 years? Why do you think THIS time he will respond more positively?

You've said yourself that he snows everyone, a master manipulator. So what's to prevent him from 'doing' your bidding i.e. going for an interview, then going back on it again?? And if he were to get full time employment, would everything be ok then? All forgiven? You'd be happy?

From your posts it sounds like you 'want' a lot of stuff from him and for 7 years he has resisted giving you any of it. Doesn't that prove to you that you cannot change anyone? My al anon meeting yesterday was about expectations. When we set them for others and don't get what we want, it turns to resentment because you are disappointed when they don't or can't meet them. Let me ask, what you want for YOU instead of him?
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