No more denial
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Clinton Twp, MI
Posts: 118
No more denial
I shared some of my story here yesterday, and a bit more today in another thread. I wanted to thank this forum just for existing, lol. Reading here has helped me break the denial I've been living in about my husband's drinking. I'm really starting to let go of the idea that he could be a "normal drinker" if he just grew up and exercised some control. Maybe he can, but I'm letting go of the certainty I've held onto for so long, and at least allowing for the possibility that he can't. I know that for right now sobriety is the only way. I know that despite all of his efforts to control it it always get out of control eventually. I know that it doesn't matter that he's not "as bad as" other alcoholics, if it's bad enough to threaten our marriage it's bad enough.
It's really hard to accept that something is a problem when it really only causes trouble once or twice a year. Just difficult to get there.
But wait, that's more denial. It caused trouble every time I worried because he had an extra beer at lunch. It caused trouble every time I had to get upset because my husband would drink even though he'd said he would be the designated driver. It caused trouble every time he got a buzz and I got worried because (although he'd been better) history told me I couldn't trust that he wouldn't go too far.
As it turns out, although he could live without being drunk for a long time, without even a buzz for days or weeks as a time, he couldn't live without alcohol completely. And THAT in itself is a problem.
it's hard to type all that out, to "say it."
And now I need to heal myself. I don't know where my codie ways came from, there's no alcoholism in my family, no substance abuse at all other than cigarettes, no abuse, no violence, none of the things that typically cause codependency. I think my husband and I just grew into this together. Because his drinking only felt like a problem ocassionally, it wasn't something that had to be dealt with....he'd have a bad drunk and then be fine for 6 months or a year, able to have a couple beers or whatever without getting "that drunk." If he'd been drunk every day, or if the really bad times happened more than once or twice a year, I think we would have figured it out sooner.
Anyway, we're figuring it out now. No more denial. He's sober now and trying to grow up and be a better man, I'm trying to figure out my stuff so I can be less codependent and stop mothering him, and we're on the mend! Thank you SR!
:ghug
-Judi
It's really hard to accept that something is a problem when it really only causes trouble once or twice a year. Just difficult to get there.
But wait, that's more denial. It caused trouble every time I worried because he had an extra beer at lunch. It caused trouble every time I had to get upset because my husband would drink even though he'd said he would be the designated driver. It caused trouble every time he got a buzz and I got worried because (although he'd been better) history told me I couldn't trust that he wouldn't go too far.
As it turns out, although he could live without being drunk for a long time, without even a buzz for days or weeks as a time, he couldn't live without alcohol completely. And THAT in itself is a problem.
it's hard to type all that out, to "say it."
And now I need to heal myself. I don't know where my codie ways came from, there's no alcoholism in my family, no substance abuse at all other than cigarettes, no abuse, no violence, none of the things that typically cause codependency. I think my husband and I just grew into this together. Because his drinking only felt like a problem ocassionally, it wasn't something that had to be dealt with....he'd have a bad drunk and then be fine for 6 months or a year, able to have a couple beers or whatever without getting "that drunk." If he'd been drunk every day, or if the really bad times happened more than once or twice a year, I think we would have figured it out sooner.
Anyway, we're figuring it out now. No more denial. He's sober now and trying to grow up and be a better man, I'm trying to figure out my stuff so I can be less codependent and stop mothering him, and we're on the mend! Thank you SR!
:ghug
-Judi
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
jaguar I really liked your post,
"I know that it doesn't matter that he's not "as bad as" other alcoholics, if it's bad enough to threaten our marriage it's bad enough."
Thank you for that one. Its true. And we are very glad you are here and getting better for yourself, first and foremost
"I know that it doesn't matter that he's not "as bad as" other alcoholics, if it's bad enough to threaten our marriage it's bad enough."
Thank you for that one. Its true. And we are very glad you are here and getting better for yourself, first and foremost
Getting better every day!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Clinton Twp, MI
Posts: 118
Thank you Dreamer.
The whole as bad as/bad enough thing was a discussion we had last night.....he asked if he was overreacting to the issue, was it really bad enough to need all this support? Not so much in a "I'm thinking I don't need this much support" kinda way, cuz he feels he does, but just.....well, we're both reading here at the forum, and we both see people with much more involved problems relating to alcohol and codependency. I read the 20 questions and only answered 3 of them Yes. And I know there's a lot of the alcoholism checklist that doesn't apply to him. So both of us are having moments of wondering "could we deal with this on our own?" Maybe wondering if we're using support that someone else might need more I guess.
It's silly, I know, but that's the conversation we were having last night.
The whole as bad as/bad enough thing was a discussion we had last night.....he asked if he was overreacting to the issue, was it really bad enough to need all this support? Not so much in a "I'm thinking I don't need this much support" kinda way, cuz he feels he does, but just.....well, we're both reading here at the forum, and we both see people with much more involved problems relating to alcohol and codependency. I read the 20 questions and only answered 3 of them Yes. And I know there's a lot of the alcoholism checklist that doesn't apply to him. So both of us are having moments of wondering "could we deal with this on our own?" Maybe wondering if we're using support that someone else might need more I guess.
It's silly, I know, but that's the conversation we were having last night.
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But wait, that's more denial. It caused trouble every time I worried because he had an extra beer at lunch. It caused trouble every time I had to get upset because my husband would drink even though he'd said he would be the designated driver. It caused trouble every time he got a buzz and I got worried because (although he'd been better) history told me I couldn't trust that he wouldn't go too far.
As it turns out, although he could live without being drunk for a long time, without even a buzz for days or weeks as a time, he couldn't live without alcohol completely. And THAT in itself is a problem.
it's hard to type all that out, to "say it."
As it turns out, although he could live without being drunk for a long time, without even a buzz for days or weeks as a time, he couldn't live without alcohol completely. And THAT in itself is a problem.
it's hard to type all that out, to "say it."
Getting better every day!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Clinton Twp, MI
Posts: 118
Saying it out loud, or online as it were, feels like overreacting....I think that's how he was feeling last night. When I read about other alcoholics, and then say "My husband is an alcoholic" it just doesn't sound right, he's absolutely not what I think of when I think "alcoholic." But if he can't control it he can't control it and that's all that matters.
I'll keep reading and posting as much as possible while still getting work done, lol.
I'll keep reading and posting as much as possible while still getting work done, lol.
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Originally Posted by jaguarpcb 
Maybe wondering if we're using support that someone else might need more I guess.
Getting better every day!
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Clinton Twp, MI
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Originally Posted by Barbara52
I know what you eman but seriously, support comes in an endless supply. I think it multiplies with every post.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 390
jaguarpcb, your first post resonates SO MUCH with me - I know that are situations are so similar and I've felt all of the things you've felt. His weekend drinking was something that was a mainstay in our years, yet it was only us and I was drinking too, and all our friends as well. But...the anxiety, the worry setting in. We were invited to a wedding and I'd wonder if I'd have to drag is ass home. If he wasn't home from work at a certain time I'd expect the "I went out after work" phonecall which meant I may or may not see him until 3am. I'd start to dread the next weekend starting mid-week.
So although it' not as 'bad' as some other stories, one member on the forum (can't remember which thread) that said something like the alcohol starts permeating everything in the relationship even when they're not drinking. And I've realized how much it has chipped away at me. And, looking back, I also realize how much it affected our lives, and hurt me, even when I chalked it up to us being young and something we all just did. I couldn't see it then. Now I look back - he was drinking when he proposed to me. He was drinking at our wedding. He was drinking the night I went into labour. Looking at a photo album and realizing that just about every occasion he had a drink in hand, whether he got very drunk or not.
So although it' not as 'bad' as some other stories, one member on the forum (can't remember which thread) that said something like the alcohol starts permeating everything in the relationship even when they're not drinking. And I've realized how much it has chipped away at me. And, looking back, I also realize how much it affected our lives, and hurt me, even when I chalked it up to us being young and something we all just did. I couldn't see it then. Now I look back - he was drinking when he proposed to me. He was drinking at our wedding. He was drinking the night I went into labour. Looking at a photo album and realizing that just about every occasion he had a drink in hand, whether he got very drunk or not.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
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My dad spent the last 20 years of his life recovered/sober. He never had a DUI (only because the cops knew him and would park his car and bring him staggering home. Unreal!). He never lost his job - although the effect on his career of sobriety was unbelievable (raise after raise and awards etc - it was such an awesome unexpected validation!).
He did a lot of damage to our family though.
He was able after a few years of recovery to talk openly about his struggle with alcoholism and he told me that he realized early on to never ever compare himself with any of the stories he heard in AA. He learned there that all those things that happened to "other" alcoholics were just things that hadn't happened to him "yet."
He also said regardless of the outward effects or consequences every alcoholic is the same- the sickness of mind, the cravings, the inability to stop and the horrible depression and feeling sick and tired, the damage to relationships, etc.
Life as/with an active alcoholic is a horror show no matter what their/your outward presentation is.
So please don't feel like you should minimize your reality! Keep seeking and accepting help! Glad you are here!
peace,
b
He did a lot of damage to our family though.
He was able after a few years of recovery to talk openly about his struggle with alcoholism and he told me that he realized early on to never ever compare himself with any of the stories he heard in AA. He learned there that all those things that happened to "other" alcoholics were just things that hadn't happened to him "yet."
He also said regardless of the outward effects or consequences every alcoholic is the same- the sickness of mind, the cravings, the inability to stop and the horrible depression and feeling sick and tired, the damage to relationships, etc.
Life as/with an active alcoholic is a horror show no matter what their/your outward presentation is.
So please don't feel like you should minimize your reality! Keep seeking and accepting help! Glad you are here!
peace,
b
Getting better every day!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Clinton Twp, MI
Posts: 118
Thank you Silkspin and Bernadette.....I'm starting to see how broadly this all affected our lives. Not deeply, but broadly, in little ways all over the place. I have to say I'm not at all thrilled with myself for not seeing it more clearly before, but I'm trying to not be hard on myself about it.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Bernadette you are right on the mark. The inner battle is similar, even if the outward manifestation is different. I often thought that if AH didn't have 'structure' imposed on him by his life (i.e. work, household, baby) that he'd drink more than he did, because as soon as he'd know he'd have a day off or I was away, he'd drink more frequently. For some reason those boundaries kept the disease in check. But I also know that the disease is progressive so eventually it will cross those bounds.
Judi, don't beat yourself up. It can creep up, life can be ok otherwise so it could be easy to dismiss and say 'what am I making a big stink over?" My sister suggested al anon 2 yrs ago and I only went 6 months ago - and I started to kick myself for that too; I could have been so much farther along......BUT I also truly believe that I wasn't ready back then. For any of it. To see what it was doing to us. To acknowledge and deal with it. We can't change the past but we NOW have the opportunity to face it. You seem ready too; you're here and posting and you're SEEING more of how it has affected your lives.
Judi, don't beat yourself up. It can creep up, life can be ok otherwise so it could be easy to dismiss and say 'what am I making a big stink over?" My sister suggested al anon 2 yrs ago and I only went 6 months ago - and I started to kick myself for that too; I could have been so much farther along......BUT I also truly believe that I wasn't ready back then. For any of it. To see what it was doing to us. To acknowledge and deal with it. We can't change the past but we NOW have the opportunity to face it. You seem ready too; you're here and posting and you're SEEING more of how it has affected your lives.
Getting better every day!
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Silkspin - My husband's life kept him in check as well, for the most part. Working at home hasn't helped, that's for sure. But the really bad binges still happened even when he had a job outside the home, and I don't think they were any less frequent.
I am ready......ready to try having a real relationship with my husband, a real marriage.
And maybe I'll look into an actual alanon meeting....now that I'm admitting to my own codie ways, that would probably be helpful....at the very least it'll give me something to do, lol.
I am ready......ready to try having a real relationship with my husband, a real marriage.
And maybe I'll look into an actual alanon meeting....now that I'm admitting to my own codie ways, that would probably be helpful....at the very least it'll give me something to do, lol.
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One thing to keep in mind: Alcoholism is both chronic, and progressive. So how it looks at one point in time is not how it will look later. Early on the timeline of progression, it may not even look like alcoholism, or a problem. That's the insidiousness of the disease: it sneaks up on a family system, and the denial grows invisibly with the disease.
The alkies say it's not how long, or how much, or how often, but what happens when they drink that gives a clue to alcoholism - that once they do take that first drink, they cannot guarantee anything, except bad things may well ensue. And that not taking that first drink is always the safer bet. And non-alcoholics almost never engage in debate over whether they may be alcoholic. You don't wonder if there is a problem with alcohol unless there is.
Sometimes, we need to re-frame how we look at what an "alcoholic" looks like, because our version is limited, and keeping us from seeing what's actually there. And keep in mind it's chronic, and progressive, so an early alcoholic may be not look different from an alcohol abuser who is not alcoholic.
CLMI
The alkies say it's not how long, or how much, or how often, but what happens when they drink that gives a clue to alcoholism - that once they do take that first drink, they cannot guarantee anything, except bad things may well ensue. And that not taking that first drink is always the safer bet. And non-alcoholics almost never engage in debate over whether they may be alcoholic. You don't wonder if there is a problem with alcohol unless there is.
Sometimes, we need to re-frame how we look at what an "alcoholic" looks like, because our version is limited, and keeping us from seeing what's actually there. And keep in mind it's chronic, and progressive, so an early alcoholic may be not look different from an alcohol abuser who is not alcoholic.
CLMI
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Originally Posted by catlovermi
The alkies say it's not how long, or how much, or how often, but what happens when they drink that gives a clue to alcoholism - that once they do take that first drink, they cannot guarantee anything, except bad things may well ensue.
As an ex-smoker I can say it's similar to nicotine addiction...some people smoke 5 cigarettes a day, some people smoke 100....being addicted to nicotine doesn't depend on how many you smoke, only that you are addicted. That realization is just now hitting us both.
Originally Posted by catlovermi
And that not taking that first drink is always the safer bet.
Originally Posted by catlovermi
And non-alcoholics almost never engage in debate over whether they may be alcoholic. You don't wonder if there is a problem with alcohol unless there is.
Thank you, you've just opened another door in my brain, lol.
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Originally Posted by jaguarpcb
This has been what has prevented us from admitting that he's an alcoholic....It was the 1% when he would get obliterated that we saw as the problem. We are now starting to see that the fact that he always had to have it, even if he didn't get drunk, was the real problem, the fact that he couldn't stop completely.
......... My husband and I both have wondered over the years if he is....we've called it "borderline alcoholic tendencies" and "a bit of a drinking problem" and other stupid things, but it really is just alcoholism, no matter how we dress it up.
......... My husband and I both have wondered over the years if he is....we've called it "borderline alcoholic tendencies" and "a bit of a drinking problem" and other stupid things, but it really is just alcoholism, no matter how we dress it up.
I do not mean any offense, but when I read your posts I am struck by how often you use the words "us" and "we" when talking about your husband's alcoholism.
I just wanted to say that deep and ongoing involvement in my husband's recovery (or lack thereof) led me directly to heartache. I have found that my spouse and I need not agree on the nature of the problem in order for me to take action towards finding relief (for myself) from that problem.
I am glad that your husband is taking measures to address his issues with drinking, but it helped me to remember that my spouse's issues were not my own. Working my own program dramatically improved my relationship with my husband, and kept me a safe distance from the drama of his affairs.
Keep posting and sharing. This is a wonderful place to recover!
-TC
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Clinton Twp, MI
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You're absolutely right, TC, we are a bit enmeshed. I'm trying to focus on my own stuff, but right now the realization is so new, and the revelations are happening for both of us, sometimes at the same time during a conversation, so it's easy to talk about it in terms of we and us.
This is exactly why I need this group. Thank you!
This is exactly why I need this group. Thank you!
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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Hi jaguar I am glad you keep posting.
Reading this thread made me sad because I realize how the disease starts creeping slowly, almost invisibly and that is why we start questioning ourselves (well at least I did). If it were obvious to everyone we could all say "oh there is a problem and we can take step A and step B to solve it" but no...that is not its nature.
Knowing what I am "against" has helped me deal with the xabf and I am very glad you are realizing something is not quite right, you are in time to avoid much hurt.
Hugs and good vibes from sunny Mexico!
Reading this thread made me sad because I realize how the disease starts creeping slowly, almost invisibly and that is why we start questioning ourselves (well at least I did). If it were obvious to everyone we could all say "oh there is a problem and we can take step A and step B to solve it" but no...that is not its nature.
Knowing what I am "against" has helped me deal with the xabf and I am very glad you are realizing something is not quite right, you are in time to avoid much hurt.
Hugs and good vibes from sunny Mexico!
Getting better every day!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Clinton Twp, MI
Posts: 118
It's really scary how sneaky codependency can be.
I had a similarly scary experience when I was in college. I was living with my boyfriend, who was often verbally abusive when drunk, and we would sometimes get in fights when he was drunk and one particularly bad evening, he threatened to punch me. He didn't actually hit me, and I hope that if he had I would have walked out that second and never looked back....but he didn't hit me, and after that night I still tried to work things out with him. We split up a few weeks later (he dumped me), and it took me about a month before I looked back and was terrified by what had almost happened to me, and how I came so close to being one of those women on Oprah who's asked "why do you stay with him if he hits you" and responds "Because I love him and he's so nice when he's not beating me."
Most frustrating for me is that I don't know where that comes from....I was taught to respect myself more than that! But it's so sneaky!
I even notice myself apologizing to my husband for stupid things....like last night he was making dinner (something he's new at, and I was standing by to offer advice and help), it was a new recipe and he was getting out the pans, and I said "use pan A" and then thought better about it and said "No, wait, that won't be big enough, try pan B, sorry" and I felt really guilty that I hadn't said the right pan first.....and I was like, wait, WTF am I sorry for? So I shook my head and laughed, and he asked why and I told him "there was no reason for me to apologize for not knowing which pan to use, that was just dumb!"
I apparently have some need to keep a man around once I'm involved with him....Must have something to do with losing my father when I was only 15 I'm sure. Gotta get that figured out! My therapist last year (saw her for a few months for anxiety issues) thought I had dealt with that in a healthy way and was OK in that respect....I'm not so sure anymore.
I should stop rambling and get back to work!
Sending good vibes from cold, frozen, snowy Michigan!
I had a similarly scary experience when I was in college. I was living with my boyfriend, who was often verbally abusive when drunk, and we would sometimes get in fights when he was drunk and one particularly bad evening, he threatened to punch me. He didn't actually hit me, and I hope that if he had I would have walked out that second and never looked back....but he didn't hit me, and after that night I still tried to work things out with him. We split up a few weeks later (he dumped me), and it took me about a month before I looked back and was terrified by what had almost happened to me, and how I came so close to being one of those women on Oprah who's asked "why do you stay with him if he hits you" and responds "Because I love him and he's so nice when he's not beating me."
Most frustrating for me is that I don't know where that comes from....I was taught to respect myself more than that! But it's so sneaky!
I even notice myself apologizing to my husband for stupid things....like last night he was making dinner (something he's new at, and I was standing by to offer advice and help), it was a new recipe and he was getting out the pans, and I said "use pan A" and then thought better about it and said "No, wait, that won't be big enough, try pan B, sorry" and I felt really guilty that I hadn't said the right pan first.....and I was like, wait, WTF am I sorry for? So I shook my head and laughed, and he asked why and I told him "there was no reason for me to apologize for not knowing which pan to use, that was just dumb!"
I apparently have some need to keep a man around once I'm involved with him....Must have something to do with losing my father when I was only 15 I'm sure. Gotta get that figured out! My therapist last year (saw her for a few months for anxiety issues) thought I had dealt with that in a healthy way and was OK in that respect....I'm not so sure anymore.
I should stop rambling and get back to work!
Sending good vibes from cold, frozen, snowy Michigan!
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