Update on "Explain to Him?" post
Freed from the anguish
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 124
Update on "Explain to Him?" post
I wanted to send an update on my post a week ago: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post2051516
Now, a week later, with a MUCH more clear view of everything:
Long story short, I spent the last 5 days with him.
The down side? He hasn't changed a bit inwardly (based on his actions/attitudes). He is SELF SEEKING, SELF CENTERED, full of unhealthy PRIDE, and wants nothing to do with accepting ownership of what he's done to me and to us. We agreed to spend this time together trying to be nice to each other, accepting that the things we need to work through in ourselves personally is going to take a long time, so this time was for us to enjoy each other's company and accept that after this weekend we would not be in contact with each other at all until after March 1st, and that at that point we will prayerfully consider what next step(s) to take, whether it be more separation or considering other things.
This time together was something he insisted he needed in order for me to prove that I wasn't leaving him for someone else, to prove I loved him, to "give him hope". Every single day, at least once, he would go right back to his forte of reminding me how much I'm hurting him, how I could possibly do this, how I'm rejecting him and it's breaking his heart. Sorry, pathetic, ridiculous. When I'd put my foot down and tell him to stop, he'd get angry. He'd shout. You could see the rage in him, glowing in his eyes. Scary, actually. He would actually start shaking from holding back the rage, with is fists tight and shouting at me through clenched teeth. At one point he threw his wedding ring across the room in his rage.
The up side? I've seen that nothing I can do will "give him hope" like he wants. His "hope" would require me to "forget" everything he's ever done. Pretend it never happened. Accept that it will continue to happen and that it's ok. And grovel and simper anytime anything I do doesn't align with what he wants, because he will be angry, and make me feel the brunt of his "hurt that I caused" by being "selfish". I saw it so clear.
We were supposed to sit down and have a really nice talk Sunday afternoon about our official "break" (agreed separation with no communication). All morning, he kept trying to bring back up the same arguments. I told him in no uncertain words that he was crossing one of my boundaries repeatedly. I stated that my boundary is no one will talk to me the way he was talking to me/treating me. I will not allow it. If he wants to talk like that, he needs to leave and call one of his friends to talk like that. I refuse to accept that behavior in my life or in my apartment any longer. He acknowledged my boundary. I made it clear I was not controlling him. He was welcome to talk that way, just not to me and not in my house. He continued to test that boundary throughout the morning.
When we ate lunch and we were supposed to talk, he wanted to snuggle and watch a movie. I said no, I would not be comfortable with physical intimacy after his continual boundary testing all morning. He again got angry. I asked him to leave. He argued some more. I then told him to leave. He continued testing the boundary. I stood my ground. I said NO. And he left.
He stated that he does want to read the book I've read ("Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft) and I will be marking it up with my notes/comments (like my copy) so he in no way can misunderstand what he's done and how I feel about it (since he has insisted since day one of our troubles that I'm not clear enough about how he's hurt me or what he's done to cause this break with us). I will be leaving the book in his mailbox when I'm finished marking it up. I will not be texting him, emailing him, calling him, and even if he breaks the silence, I will resist all urges to respond. I will no longer "react" to him. I no longer have the looming fear of, "I didn't explain myself enough" or "I haven't made it clear enough where my heart is at and that I want things to be right" (which is how I've felt since the day I moved out in November). I know that was all honestly and clearly shared with him this week.
I also made sure he knew that while "I don't want a divorce" is true, that I ALSO REFUSE to ever be in relationship with ANYONE who treats me the way he has treated me, and if that means ending an unhealthy marriage in order to keep the boundary of being treated uprightly and properly with love and respect, then I will end it. Which is why I refuse to change this divorce to a separation filing (which he keeps insisting I must do to prove to him that I love him and don't want a divorce). While I don't want divorce, I don't want abuse that much more. And I will do what it takes to no longer put myself in a place of being abused.
And the divorce support group (despite everything that happened with stbXRAH before and after) was GREAT, and I DO plan to go back. The other woman in my group is also divorcing from a controlling and manipulative (verbally abusive) man. It is SO good to not be alone. There are only four of us in the class (so far) plus the instructor, and everyone was very honest and very encouraging. I look forward to many more weeks, and as our leader suggested, consider going through the the program two or three times not just once (15 week program).
Also, with some help from my counselor, I'm learning that what's behind my cooperation in marathon discussions (and extended visits) with my stbXRAH and with my parents is fear of totally and forever losing the relationship. I'm allowing abuse (enabling) in order to try to keep the relationship, rather than setting boundaries and risking them truly ending relationship with me. It's true that it's a possiblility (lost relationship with my parents) but very unlikely. There are no guarantees in life that all relationships will continue. I have to learn and accept that truth in order to become healthy.
*huge sigh of relief* So there it is. Thank you again for all your support and encouragement and hope. I truly believe this "new" separation will be different on my part. It doesn't feel so rushed or "unsure" for me. I KNOW that I've made myself clear. And I'm no longer looking back or feeling confused.
<-- to all of you
Now, a week later, with a MUCH more clear view of everything:
Long story short, I spent the last 5 days with him.
The down side? He hasn't changed a bit inwardly (based on his actions/attitudes). He is SELF SEEKING, SELF CENTERED, full of unhealthy PRIDE, and wants nothing to do with accepting ownership of what he's done to me and to us. We agreed to spend this time together trying to be nice to each other, accepting that the things we need to work through in ourselves personally is going to take a long time, so this time was for us to enjoy each other's company and accept that after this weekend we would not be in contact with each other at all until after March 1st, and that at that point we will prayerfully consider what next step(s) to take, whether it be more separation or considering other things.
This time together was something he insisted he needed in order for me to prove that I wasn't leaving him for someone else, to prove I loved him, to "give him hope". Every single day, at least once, he would go right back to his forte of reminding me how much I'm hurting him, how I could possibly do this, how I'm rejecting him and it's breaking his heart. Sorry, pathetic, ridiculous. When I'd put my foot down and tell him to stop, he'd get angry. He'd shout. You could see the rage in him, glowing in his eyes. Scary, actually. He would actually start shaking from holding back the rage, with is fists tight and shouting at me through clenched teeth. At one point he threw his wedding ring across the room in his rage.
The up side? I've seen that nothing I can do will "give him hope" like he wants. His "hope" would require me to "forget" everything he's ever done. Pretend it never happened. Accept that it will continue to happen and that it's ok. And grovel and simper anytime anything I do doesn't align with what he wants, because he will be angry, and make me feel the brunt of his "hurt that I caused" by being "selfish". I saw it so clear.
We were supposed to sit down and have a really nice talk Sunday afternoon about our official "break" (agreed separation with no communication). All morning, he kept trying to bring back up the same arguments. I told him in no uncertain words that he was crossing one of my boundaries repeatedly. I stated that my boundary is no one will talk to me the way he was talking to me/treating me. I will not allow it. If he wants to talk like that, he needs to leave and call one of his friends to talk like that. I refuse to accept that behavior in my life or in my apartment any longer. He acknowledged my boundary. I made it clear I was not controlling him. He was welcome to talk that way, just not to me and not in my house. He continued to test that boundary throughout the morning.
When we ate lunch and we were supposed to talk, he wanted to snuggle and watch a movie. I said no, I would not be comfortable with physical intimacy after his continual boundary testing all morning. He again got angry. I asked him to leave. He argued some more. I then told him to leave. He continued testing the boundary. I stood my ground. I said NO. And he left.
He stated that he does want to read the book I've read ("Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft) and I will be marking it up with my notes/comments (like my copy) so he in no way can misunderstand what he's done and how I feel about it (since he has insisted since day one of our troubles that I'm not clear enough about how he's hurt me or what he's done to cause this break with us). I will be leaving the book in his mailbox when I'm finished marking it up. I will not be texting him, emailing him, calling him, and even if he breaks the silence, I will resist all urges to respond. I will no longer "react" to him. I no longer have the looming fear of, "I didn't explain myself enough" or "I haven't made it clear enough where my heart is at and that I want things to be right" (which is how I've felt since the day I moved out in November). I know that was all honestly and clearly shared with him this week.
I also made sure he knew that while "I don't want a divorce" is true, that I ALSO REFUSE to ever be in relationship with ANYONE who treats me the way he has treated me, and if that means ending an unhealthy marriage in order to keep the boundary of being treated uprightly and properly with love and respect, then I will end it. Which is why I refuse to change this divorce to a separation filing (which he keeps insisting I must do to prove to him that I love him and don't want a divorce). While I don't want divorce, I don't want abuse that much more. And I will do what it takes to no longer put myself in a place of being abused.
And the divorce support group (despite everything that happened with stbXRAH before and after) was GREAT, and I DO plan to go back. The other woman in my group is also divorcing from a controlling and manipulative (verbally abusive) man. It is SO good to not be alone. There are only four of us in the class (so far) plus the instructor, and everyone was very honest and very encouraging. I look forward to many more weeks, and as our leader suggested, consider going through the the program two or three times not just once (15 week program).
Also, with some help from my counselor, I'm learning that what's behind my cooperation in marathon discussions (and extended visits) with my stbXRAH and with my parents is fear of totally and forever losing the relationship. I'm allowing abuse (enabling) in order to try to keep the relationship, rather than setting boundaries and risking them truly ending relationship with me. It's true that it's a possiblility (lost relationship with my parents) but very unlikely. There are no guarantees in life that all relationships will continue. I have to learn and accept that truth in order to become healthy.
*huge sigh of relief* So there it is. Thank you again for all your support and encouragement and hope. I truly believe this "new" separation will be different on my part. It doesn't feel so rushed or "unsure" for me. I KNOW that I've made myself clear. And I'm no longer looking back or feeling confused.
<-- to all of you
Stronger than yesterday...
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 118
Wow! What a breath of fresh air! Kudos for standing your ground and not backing down. I admire your strength and willpower, its simply awesome. Not that I wish what you have been through upon anyone, as we know, it isn't easy. Hugs...
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 14
As I am going through a somewhat similar situation, I have found HOPE & INSPIRATION by your words. I too, have gone cold-turkey no-contact w/my XABF after every single discussion, text msg, e-mail, etc. degenerated into a battle. Always MY fault, never his. It's been 36 days now, and I have NEVER felt stronger or more healthier.
I hope you continue to stay strong and defend yourself against this craziness! Thanks so much for your post.
I hope you continue to stay strong and defend yourself against this craziness! Thanks so much for your post.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 646
First of all....way to go!
Just a thought...take what you want and leave the rest.
My XAH fit the mold of some of the guys represented in the Lundy Bancroft book. Manipulative, intelligent, narcissistic, unethical and will do just about anything to get what he wants etc... I know my X-husband will and has used my own ideas against me to play me like a fool.
My thought to myself when I read you were going to let him read your marked up copy of that book is you are giving him a lot of ammo and a window right into your soul.
My idea for my XAH is if he wants to get healthy he needs to do it on his own without my help at all. I want the real thing, not a guy pretending to do what I want. KWIM?
Just a thought...take what you want and leave the rest.
My XAH fit the mold of some of the guys represented in the Lundy Bancroft book. Manipulative, intelligent, narcissistic, unethical and will do just about anything to get what he wants etc... I know my X-husband will and has used my own ideas against me to play me like a fool.
My thought to myself when I read you were going to let him read your marked up copy of that book is you are giving him a lot of ammo and a window right into your soul.
My idea for my XAH is if he wants to get healthy he needs to do it on his own without my help at all. I want the real thing, not a guy pretending to do what I want. KWIM?
Freed from the anguish
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 124
Chrysalis - thanks. I do agree I'm giving him some ammo, if he chooses to use it that way. However, none of my notes were "personal" beyond big exclamation points and arrows and underlines pointing out the things in the book which I felt and saw from him on a daily basis.
My only reason for sharing this with him is because when I told him his behavior/ treatment was abusive, he was very upset and said, "I've never ONCE raised a hand against you and I rarely ever raise my voice or say horrible things to you." On top of that, he's accused me since the day I moved out of not explaining to him well enough why it is I left and why I filed for divorce.
I'm 99.9% sure he's NOT going to accept what the book (or my notes) have to say. He's going to dig up whatever "dirt" he can on the author and undermine his credentials (just like he's done for every single person we know including my counselor who's stuck up for me and stuck by me through everything going on).
However, I'm not really doing this for him. I'm doing this for me. Now I CAN stand on the TRUTH, that I did not leave my husband for no reason, that I made CLEAR to him my reasons (what boundaries he'd crossed). This truth is already setting me free.
My only reason for sharing this with him is because when I told him his behavior/ treatment was abusive, he was very upset and said, "I've never ONCE raised a hand against you and I rarely ever raise my voice or say horrible things to you." On top of that, he's accused me since the day I moved out of not explaining to him well enough why it is I left and why I filed for divorce.
I'm 99.9% sure he's NOT going to accept what the book (or my notes) have to say. He's going to dig up whatever "dirt" he can on the author and undermine his credentials (just like he's done for every single person we know including my counselor who's stuck up for me and stuck by me through everything going on).
However, I'm not really doing this for him. I'm doing this for me. Now I CAN stand on the TRUTH, that I did not leave my husband for no reason, that I made CLEAR to him my reasons (what boundaries he'd crossed). This truth is already setting me free.
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