ToughChoices

I'm having a hard time pulling apart how much of my discontent with my current relationship (separated, still see each other) is a problem with ME.

Why am I not able to really thrive within/in spite of this relationship?

I'm reading A LOT, praying, meditating, exercising, examining my issues, sharing with my group, talking to friends and family.
Why do I still want a very particular sort of "love" from my husband?

I find myself wanting to rush through this pain - just get out of it.
But a very real part of me knows that a legal divorce will not end the pain.

Am I falling back into my old codependent thinking, believing that I'm going to be able to find a romantic partner who meets my needs and fills me up? Who completes my life? Why am I feeling this lack in my relationship? Where is the hole - is it inside me?

bodychek

Speaking from my alcoholic/addict experience in recovery, our families and the people close to us need treatment as much if not more than we do. We run roughshod through your lives and although we want to want to be with you and be the people you want us to be, we will always disappoint you.

We may succeed with periods of recovery where you can see the person who you knew and gives you hope, but most times we succumb to the disease and once again only serve one master. Often we only manipulate you to thinking we are getting better so we can get a mini-reprieve to regroup and go off again.

My experience is that it is only through complete defeat and surrender that we can begin to recover. If the alcoholic/addict cannot surrender to our disease, the people around us need to surrender to it and help themselves. Whether our family choose to stay with us or not (in my case my wife detached and could not reattach, resulting in divorce), they need to begin to heal themselves in spite of our addictions.

I am constantly reminded by what I put my family through, remembering is paramount to my recovery. Good luck, my thoughts are with you.

sailorjohn

Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance. Hard to get to the last stage if you're unable to detach. I know how very hard that detachment thing is. My thoughts go out to you.

LaTeeDa

That's a very big question. One that's taken over a year of therapy and probably 30 books for me to answer. And the question remains. It gets answered a little bit more all the time. There are likely as many answers to that question as there are people.

The asking of it creates as many opportunities for growth as the answering.

Acceptance of what is doesn't mean doing nothing. Learning to be doesn't mean forgetting to do.

L

ToughChoices

Thanks for your thoughts, bodychek. I appreciate the perspective.

I've been in recovery (Al-Anon) for close to 2 years and have been living separately from my husband for the last 4 months. I've done intense therapy and come a LONG way from the screaming, crying, freak-out days of yore.

I have abandoned most any notion of controlling my husband's addiction, and I know that his recovery is entirely within his grasp and outside of mine.

I just don't want to behave rashly, and something about screaming DIVORCE at the top of my lungs because he won't go with me to a New Year's Eve party or because he cancels some plans unexpectedly feels rash.

To borrow anvilhead's metaphor:
I'm sick of the Folgers, I want something with more bite, but there's a part of my brain that thinks paying $1.75 for a cup of Starbucks means I don't know how to be satisfied with WHAT IS. Part of me thinks if I wasn't so spoiled/codependent I'd be content with a regular old cup of Folgers. I'd quit longing for the dark roast from Tanzania.

KWIM?

LaTeeDa

Big huge monumental difference between ACCEPTING WHAT IS and being SATISFIED with WHAT IS. Who ever said you had to be satisfied with it?

Back to the coffee. If they give you Folgers and you'd rather have something else, you are free to accept they serve Folgers and go somewhere else. You cannot force them to serve anything different, but at the same time, you are not forced to keep buying it.

L

LaTeeDa

From one coffee snob to another, here's what to do. Go to Costco. They have 3lb. bags of good coffee for something like 11.99. Folgers price, Starbucks taste. Ahhhh

Sorry about the hijack.............

L

GiveLove

TC,

Maybe it is because you are settling for Juan Valdez, when you know in your lion's heart that you would really prefer a relationship that's more like Javier Bardem?

Sorry. I just had to do that because Anvil dared us, but really.....

There's a world of difference between being able to be 100% whole & complete without a (certain) romantic partner, and wanting to live your life that way. I am whole the way I am...I love myself, and love my place in the world. But given a chance, I would choose to spend life with the right partner. Someone who complements me in the right areas, someone whose presence gives me energy when I need it, someone to fight side by side with.

If & when I have to be partner-less, I will be content in my skin, but always open to the possibility that somewhere there might be Someone with whom I can create the kind of alchemy that pleases me, and that HP might arrange for me to find them. Not under my control, but desirable.

You are brilliant, tender, funny, devoted, intuitive woman. The tenderness and loyalty you've invested in an alcoholic -- if invested in someone who put you before a bottle -- could bring great joy to you and your son. I think in your heart you know that you're capable of being - and having - a truly extraordinary partner. You know the power of relationships and the power of a love that is multiplied tenfold by its being shared. And in your current situation, that's impossible. I too would be restless in that situation, and I was.

CatsPajamas

I've been doing a lot of thinking about expectations, specifically where they apply to an interpersonal relationship. We are often told that "expectations are just premeditated resentments" but think it's unreasonable to have certain expectations.

For example, I pay my electric bill on time, therefore, it's a reasonable expectation for me that when I flip a light switch, the lights will come on. There's always the chance that I need to replace a lightbulb, but the overall expectation of switch=light is a valid and reasonable expectation.

So, I've been contemplating reasonable expectations in relationships. I'm not sure I have the answers, but I have the questions.

I think those questions apply here. You are married, and I believe that means you should be able to have certain basic expectations. I also believe - and KNOW from my own experience - that all the basic stuff goes out the window when you factor in the disease of alcoholism/addiction.

LaTeeDa

Expectations have always been a really tough thing for me to wrap my brain around. My friend Minnie once posted something that made more sense to me than anything I had come up with at that point. I will try to paraphrase it here.

We all have expectations that apply to roles. I have a set of expectations for a husband, mother, best friend, etc. Where it becomes problematic is when we apply those expectations to individuals, i.e. you are my husband, therefore I expect X from you. So I expect certain things in regard to a role someone plays in my life, but they do not live up to my expectations. Is it their problem, or have I chosen the wrong person to fill the role?

What about the example of mother? If I have certain expectations of my mother and she doesn't meet them, is it her problem? Or do I need to examine the importance I am placing on the role she plays and consider getting my needs met through another person, in another role?

I don't think it is bad to have expectations. But, we must take responsibility for them.

L

DesertEyes

What I have learned in recovery is that the whole concept of "expectations" is just the long, complicated version of the serenity prayer:

Expectations are those things I wish would change to meet my fantasy of what reality should be.
Acceptance is the action of not trying to change those things that already are in reality as they should be.

When I find something in reality that doesn't meet my fantasy of what it should be my codie-itis flares up and I go try and change things until they _do_ match my fantasy. 'course, when my efforts fail, I just try harder.

I want to have a life-long partner that will be my soul-mate until we die of old age. That's a nice thing to want. Some people I know have that. Some people I know do not. My "disease" of codie-itis creates a fantasy in my mind that _this_ particular woman is going to be my life-long soul-mate. My disease completely skips over the reality that some people do _not_ have a soul mate.

So why do I _want_ a soul-mate in the first place? Because my disease of codie-itis tells me that the _only_ way I will ever be happy is to have a soul mate. Connect the dots and my disease tells me that if this particular woman is not my soul-mate then I will be forever unhappy.

Expectations are my disease connecting the dots of life in ways that leave me no other option but unhappiness.

Recovery is when I accept that _some_ dots of life are going to connect on their own regardless of what I do, and _some_ dots I can _choose_ how to connect.

I choose to be happy _regardless_ of whether I have a soul-mate or not. A soul-mate is icing on the cake of life, I have decided.

I have accepted that I will never have a life-long partner, after all half my life is over and I can't start again. Not to mention that I have a chronic disease and the chances of me making ten more years are zip. I have decided I can be happy without a soul-mate, and I am dating a charming young lady who is very much _not_ my soul mate. But I am deliriously happy just the same.

Whadya think?

Mike

Bernadette

.WAS WHAT I THOUGHT I WANTED REALLY WORTH WHAT I WAS PAYING?

anvil thank you for this. I can apply that to so many things! I wish I had that pop into my mind when I was trying to bend my marriage into what I thought I wanted it to be....man, what a high price I was paying for that insanity.

Expectations are tough for me too. During the throes of my marriage when I was in the habit of pointing out all the things exH could/should be doing to be the man I thought he was supposed to be he said to me once "You need to lower your expectations." And I was SO offended. I took it as an insult to me and my unassailably correct high standards for a good relationship (gag) and as an insult to himself.

With time I learned he was right- he wasn't the man I thought he was and he was just letting me know that he knew that - and that if I was ever going to accept him as he was, well....I would need to change my expectations.

from LTD: Big huge monumental difference between ACCEPTING WHAT IS and being SATISFIED with WHAT IS. Who ever said you had to be satisfied with it?

Exactly.

And TC you may just be yearning for romance and love and attention. I think that's all normal and human. So just having those desires does not mean a slide in your recovery, it's whether your recovery continues to grow day by day whether in or out of relationships, whether employed or unemployed, sick or healthy - all those variables of life that we often cannot "choose" how they go - but we can choose to stay true to our recovery...

from TC: but there's a part of my brain that thinks paying $1.75 for a cup of Starbucks means I don't know how to be satisfied with WHAT IS.

When I rtead this it brought me back how I felt in early therapy after my divorce-- I mean why had I chosen a life partner so poorly? Why, when the world presents us with a smorgasbord of coffees had I chosen the cup of coffee that turned my stomach to acid. Why did I settle?

I mean, I accept it all and appreciate it as part of my journey and my karma, but I learned a lot by examining it - and looking back I can see that a relationship with someone more equal was way way too scary for me at the time - I didn't have a clue how to choose a life partner or build a healthy relationship.

There had been plenty of red flags I could have paid attention to before getting knocked up and marrying my exH. Why did I choose to ignore reality and then practically blow a gasket trying to bend reality into something I wanted it to be??? Answering all those questions got me a good distance down the road in my recovery.

Peace-
B.

ToughChoices

Such beautiful and helpful responses! Thank you all so much!

This situation, like life, is a process. I go forward, then step back. I am assured, then I find myself doubting. This is as it should be, but it can be frustrating to feel like I'm going around in a circle.

I'm going to give myself a few months and see what happens in that time when I:
1.) stop complaining about his behavior.
2.) stop analyzing everything about my marriage
3.) stop trying to make this huge decision
4.) start trusting that the truth will reveal itself
5.) start praying for patience and wisdom instead of ANSWERS

His drinking was unacceptable to me for a long time. I fretted and worried and discussed leaving ad nausem only to find that, when the time was right, I knew I had to leave him. It was simple: I didn't want to live with him anymore.

Now, I find myself engaging in that same cycle of "Look at what he's doing! OMG! I am so disappointed! I deserve so much more!" - fretting and worrying about his behaviors and my expectations, trying to discuss myself into believing that the time is/isn't right to call it quits for my marriage.

I think that, when the time is right, I will know that I do not want to be married to him. Perhaps it will be simple: I will not be in love with him anymore.

I feel like I need to be quiet, stop resisting and complaining so that I can hear the truth.

Peace and blessings to all of you - thanks for bringing me some perspective.
-TC

LaTeeDa

I like to visualize it as an upward spiral. It feels like going around in a circle, but it's going upward, sometimes imperceptably, but still upward.

L

ToughChoices

Bumping for LoveMyAHusband

nez

The hole is created by not believing that you are enough. This is unequivocally not true. You are enough, just as you are. Everyone on the planet has unique talents, abilities, and strengths that make them who they are. These positive qualities are to be celebrated. Everyone has the right to be happy and pursue their dreams. It is only by appreciating your special qualities that make you who you are, can you come to the realization that you are enough, just as you are. There is no completing to be done, it has been done, you just need to believe and know this. Then you can truly live life on life’s terms, instead of waiting and looking for a completing moment.

LoveMyAHusband

Thank you @ToughChoices! I didn’t realize you’d done this and was just reading, riveted.

I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about this, and it’s hard to say for sure whether I’m just sad because I miss my partner or whether I feel like I’m not enough. I know before him I was recently divorced and that man had broken me down a lot, but it had gotten to a place where I refused to believe I wasn’t enough. As mentioned earlier on this thread - at some point I felt healed and whole enough that it was easy to walk away. I just knew there was nothing left there that I wanted. And then I spent 6 months with myself on my own, and I enjoyed every minute of it. I felt whole and happy when I met my husband. I was not dating or even interested in dating when we met. At most, I thought maybe we could be friends.

I will admit things moved quickly from there. He was everything my ex was not. He built me up and encouraged me in everything I did. I felt so very loved and so very precious to him. We moved in together after a few months but dated for a year before getting married. He asked many times before I finally said yes (like I said, I wasn’t in a rush for something new). I loved this about us - I was happy without him. Then more so with him.

Fast forward to today, and I’ve definitely had many days where I’ve felt empty without him. Because of custody and child issues, I’ve really felt the vacuum of his support. I experience a lot of verbal abuse from my son and his father, and my husband was always so supportive during those moments. So I definitely miss him on that front. Plus we’ve been best friends for the last 2.5 years, and that absence is also keenly felt. But the longer we go without talking (whether for good reasons or bad), the more I feel my stronger self show up for myself, and I think that’s a sign that I’m in a reasonable place. At least I hope that’s the case. Still trying to figure out if the way I’m feeling is “right” and reasonable or if I’m just pathetic and codependent. That picture definitely gets painted a lot, but I don’t feel that way. Not that I don’t have any codependent tendencies, but that I feel largely healthy when I’m left on my own.