new year's eve's binge...and still going
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
I understand, emily.
And I too repeated the same patterns -- some of us here at SR have repeated them many times over -- until I really worked on WHY I chose these people, why I stayed even I said I'd leave, etc. Recovery programs have really helped me to know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I will never land in such a relationships again. My mantra since early recovery has been: am I learning the lessons life's trying to teach me right now? (because if not, I'm doomed to repeat it until I do)
That's why we say here "work on YOU" so much. Because unless we address our codependent traits, until we face the benefits we're getting out of a bad situation, we just end up back in the frying pan over and over.
Good luck with getting out of the pan, the fire, the stove, even the kitchen! Work on you, and you will free yourself forever.
And I too repeated the same patterns -- some of us here at SR have repeated them many times over -- until I really worked on WHY I chose these people, why I stayed even I said I'd leave, etc. Recovery programs have really helped me to know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I will never land in such a relationships again. My mantra since early recovery has been: am I learning the lessons life's trying to teach me right now? (because if not, I'm doomed to repeat it until I do)
That's why we say here "work on YOU" so much. Because unless we address our codependent traits, until we face the benefits we're getting out of a bad situation, we just end up back in the frying pan over and over.
Good luck with getting out of the pan, the fire, the stove, even the kitchen! Work on you, and you will free yourself forever.
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hertfordshire, UK
Posts: 111
Emily, trust me it took me a while to really sort out the distinctions between rules, boundaries and ultimatums. I'm still not entirely sure I've got it straight 
Let's take the issue over a drinking limit. It's not so much I think it's wrong, it's more than I suspect it won't improve the situation any. How are you going to police it? Count the beers he has? I tried that, as well as marking the level of wine in the bottle and also making a written agreement with my AXGF about what constituted a "reasonable" amount for her to drink and how often. It was madness. She just drank in secret, while I drove myself nuts hunting around for the empties and trying to keep a tally. It also led to some spectacularly pointless arguments where she'd be claiming to have only had the "allowed" two glasses of wine, and I was saying that she must have had more because, look, she could barely stand up. It got us nowhere. It just kept all my attention nailed to the topic of how much, and how often, she was drinking rather than on what was best for me in my life.
It's taken me a long time to realise that the big problem in the relationship between me and my AXGF wasn't the amount of wine she drank. It was the abusive, self-centred and disrespectful behaviour she exhibited towards me at an increasing frequency and severity. The fact that those kinds of behaviours only tended to come out when she was drunk was not my business. The causes and motives for her actions are hers to own and for her to decide how to tackle (or not, as the case may be). My choice was to decide whether I wished to continue living with someone who acted like that to me and who had made no real efforts to change, or to call it a day. I can't say it was an easy decision and I certainly can't say it was as clear-cut as that in my mind at the time. But that is what I now believe was really going on, even if at the time I thought it was all about the booze.
So when you say you don't want him to drink, why is that? What is it about his behaviour when drunk that you find unacceptable? Maybe it could be better to build boundaries around those unacceptable behaviours (which, I would guess, you probably wouldn't accept from anybody) rather than the specific number of drinks your BF has consumed. If nothing else, it avoids the need for you to be the beer police.
One final thought about the ticket - let's just suppose he breaks your rules and/or transgresses your boundaries, you split up, you buy him an airline ticket and then... he decides to stick around. What impact would that have on your life?
Take care,
Mr B.
Let's take the issue over a drinking limit. It's not so much I think it's wrong, it's more than I suspect it won't improve the situation any. How are you going to police it? Count the beers he has? I tried that, as well as marking the level of wine in the bottle and also making a written agreement with my AXGF about what constituted a "reasonable" amount for her to drink and how often. It was madness. She just drank in secret, while I drove myself nuts hunting around for the empties and trying to keep a tally. It also led to some spectacularly pointless arguments where she'd be claiming to have only had the "allowed" two glasses of wine, and I was saying that she must have had more because, look, she could barely stand up. It got us nowhere. It just kept all my attention nailed to the topic of how much, and how often, she was drinking rather than on what was best for me in my life.
It's taken me a long time to realise that the big problem in the relationship between me and my AXGF wasn't the amount of wine she drank. It was the abusive, self-centred and disrespectful behaviour she exhibited towards me at an increasing frequency and severity. The fact that those kinds of behaviours only tended to come out when she was drunk was not my business. The causes and motives for her actions are hers to own and for her to decide how to tackle (or not, as the case may be). My choice was to decide whether I wished to continue living with someone who acted like that to me and who had made no real efforts to change, or to call it a day. I can't say it was an easy decision and I certainly can't say it was as clear-cut as that in my mind at the time. But that is what I now believe was really going on, even if at the time I thought it was all about the booze.
So when you say you don't want him to drink, why is that? What is it about his behaviour when drunk that you find unacceptable? Maybe it could be better to build boundaries around those unacceptable behaviours (which, I would guess, you probably wouldn't accept from anybody) rather than the specific number of drinks your BF has consumed. If nothing else, it avoids the need for you to be the beer police.
One final thought about the ticket - let's just suppose he breaks your rules and/or transgresses your boundaries, you split up, you buy him an airline ticket and then... he decides to stick around. What impact would that have on your life?
Take care,
Mr B.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 444
[QUOTE=emilystrange;2050456 i was just too soft all along[/QUOTE]
I don't think you have been too soft. It sounds to me like you have told him that you are unhappy and why you are unhappy. I have been there, and I felt the same way. I used to say the same thing over and over again, using different words. Every time my AH clearly indicated that he understood and it would be "no problem". I would be so relived that FINALLY I had gotten through to him. But nothing I did or said ever changed him, because I don't have the power to change him.
I don't think you have been too soft. It sounds to me like you have told him that you are unhappy and why you are unhappy. I have been there, and I felt the same way. I used to say the same thing over and over again, using different words. Every time my AH clearly indicated that he understood and it would be "no problem". I would be so relived that FINALLY I had gotten through to him. But nothing I did or said ever changed him, because I don't have the power to change him.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 15
anvilhead you sound like you're telling me off.
to clarify: i have not set out to control my bf, i have tried to figure out a solution for BOTH OF US.
ever since i met him i knew he had a problem with drink, and he has been telling me (without me even mentioning it at first since we started out as friends) that he knows he needs to stop binge-drinking.
to be honest we wouldn't have gotten partners in the first place if i had not seen genuine reflection and willingness on his behalf to confront the problem (even if that willingness got lost somewhere along the line).
i have not controlled his drinking at first, in fact i never have. (as you all know nobody can really control an alcoholic.) i have started letting him know at first why this or that was upsetting and then later suggested ways of cutting down, since this is what he said HIMSELF when talking to me. now people make plans cutting down on cigarettes etc., so why not booze? it is just another addictive substance.
even when we arranged a new deal, rule or whatever - when it came down to breaking it and he said to me he wanted some beer i always said well it's up to you, it's your decision.
you make it sound like i am always and have always been treating him like a child full stop.
and no, it's not a lot of fun being too focused on your partner's drinking when you should be having fun, but i'm sure we've all been there. unless you were doing the right thing from the start, in which case i congratulate you.
regarding your question about my ex-bf.
he did in fact STOP using after only a couple of months of us being together, after being an addict for 12 years.
again at that time i hadn't pressured him in the slightest, he just saw how unhappy it made me i guess.
we didn't split up because of drugs. he went back to the drugs since splitting up with me but that is his choice.
to clarify: i have not set out to control my bf, i have tried to figure out a solution for BOTH OF US.
ever since i met him i knew he had a problem with drink, and he has been telling me (without me even mentioning it at first since we started out as friends) that he knows he needs to stop binge-drinking.
to be honest we wouldn't have gotten partners in the first place if i had not seen genuine reflection and willingness on his behalf to confront the problem (even if that willingness got lost somewhere along the line).
i have not controlled his drinking at first, in fact i never have. (as you all know nobody can really control an alcoholic.) i have started letting him know at first why this or that was upsetting and then later suggested ways of cutting down, since this is what he said HIMSELF when talking to me. now people make plans cutting down on cigarettes etc., so why not booze? it is just another addictive substance.
even when we arranged a new deal, rule or whatever - when it came down to breaking it and he said to me he wanted some beer i always said well it's up to you, it's your decision.
you make it sound like i am always and have always been treating him like a child full stop.
and no, it's not a lot of fun being too focused on your partner's drinking when you should be having fun, but i'm sure we've all been there. unless you were doing the right thing from the start, in which case i congratulate you.
regarding your question about my ex-bf.
he did in fact STOP using after only a couple of months of us being together, after being an addict for 12 years.
again at that time i hadn't pressured him in the slightest, he just saw how unhappy it made me i guess.
we didn't split up because of drugs. he went back to the drugs since splitting up with me but that is his choice.
Yield beautiful changes
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: A home filled with love
Posts: 1,695
Hi, Emily.
I had a really difficult time with boundaries in the beginning.
I didn't want to say, "If you are drinking, then I choose NOT to be around you," because
1.) I knew that I wouldn't get to be around him very much
and
2.) One, two, hell... even three beers didn't bother me - it was the passed-out "who is this person?" drunkenness that I had trouble with.
We had all sorts of rules about not keeping alcohol in the house, only buying low-alcohol content beer, only drinking around other people (my AH is a solitary drinker). We tried it all. He tried it all. I made new rules. They worked for a while, then he'd get frustrated and buy/drink a bottle of vodka.
It was madness for me.
But I had to go through all of that to get to a place where I can finally, comfortably, with confidence and assurance say, "If you are drinking, then I choose not to be around you." Not because he instantly becomes an awful, terrible person, it's just that I have seen the "moderation" approach played out enough times that I no longer believe that it's possible. My husband still believes that it is. I would like him to be right, but I'm not betting my serenity on it.
That means I had to find another place to live. I don't want to watch him "try" to handle it anymore. I had to rearrange my money, my plans, and my thinking.
My boundaries evolved over time. I believe that yours will, too. I had to take a long, hard look at my life and realize that I was banking all my happiness on someone else making changes. Today I make the changes.
Best of luck to you.
-TC
I had a really difficult time with boundaries in the beginning.
I didn't want to say, "If you are drinking, then I choose NOT to be around you," because
1.) I knew that I wouldn't get to be around him very much
and
2.) One, two, hell... even three beers didn't bother me - it was the passed-out "who is this person?" drunkenness that I had trouble with.
We had all sorts of rules about not keeping alcohol in the house, only buying low-alcohol content beer, only drinking around other people (my AH is a solitary drinker). We tried it all. He tried it all. I made new rules. They worked for a while, then he'd get frustrated and buy/drink a bottle of vodka.
It was madness for me.
But I had to go through all of that to get to a place where I can finally, comfortably, with confidence and assurance say, "If you are drinking, then I choose not to be around you." Not because he instantly becomes an awful, terrible person, it's just that I have seen the "moderation" approach played out enough times that I no longer believe that it's possible. My husband still believes that it is. I would like him to be right, but I'm not betting my serenity on it.
That means I had to find another place to live. I don't want to watch him "try" to handle it anymore. I had to rearrange my money, my plans, and my thinking.
My boundaries evolved over time. I believe that yours will, too. I had to take a long, hard look at my life and realize that I was banking all my happiness on someone else making changes. Today I make the changes.
Best of luck to you.
-TC
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
now people make plans cutting down on cigarettes etc., so why not booze? it is just another addictive substance.
Alcoholism is a formidable foe. Pop over to the Alcoholism forum here on SR and you might get a sense of how hard it is to fight that compulsion to drink. Or read Under the Influence by Milgram & Ketchum.
Codependency (which is what I was left with thanks to my upbringing) is also a formidable foe. It plays tricks with our minds, makes us believe the nonsense that alcoholics promise us, makes us minimize our desires, pain, needs; makes us numb to our feelings but overly sensitive to other's; makes us into controlling reactors; makes us active in denial and engage in magical thinking; keeps us stuck on a rollercoaster ride that will ultimately make a person very very sick both mentally and physically.
I don't know about you but when I look at myself and the things I want to change - the really tough stuff- the nitty gritty - it is very HARD for me to change!!! I am grateful every day that I am not an alcoholic or addict. OMG what misery - because if it is so hard to become the person I want to be even without substances interfering then, man, I cannot believe how hard it would be if I also had that monkey on my back!
peace-
B.
Alcoholism is a formidable foe. Pop over to the Alcoholism forum here on SR and you might get a sense of how hard it is to fight that compulsion to drink. Or read Under the Influence by Milgram & Ketchum.
Codependency (which is what I was left with thanks to my upbringing) is also a formidable foe. It plays tricks with our minds, makes us believe the nonsense that alcoholics promise us, makes us minimize our desires, pain, needs; makes us numb to our feelings but overly sensitive to other's; makes us into controlling reactors; makes us active in denial and engage in magical thinking; keeps us stuck on a rollercoaster ride that will ultimately make a person very very sick both mentally and physically.
I don't know about you but when I look at myself and the things I want to change - the really tough stuff- the nitty gritty - it is very HARD for me to change!!! I am grateful every day that I am not an alcoholic or addict. OMG what misery - because if it is so hard to become the person I want to be even without substances interfering then, man, I cannot believe how hard it would be if I also had that monkey on my back!
peace-
B.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Originally Posted by emilystrange 
later suggested ways of cutting down, since this is what he said HIMSELF when talking to me. now people make plans cutting down on cigarettes etc., so why not booze? it is just another addictive substance.
Originally Posted by emilystrange
you make it sound like i am always and have always been treating him like a child full stop.
I set boundaries for me, to define what I will and will not accept in my life. It has nothing to do in a way with the people around me since many times my boundaries are not verbalized to anyone. My boundaries apply to every situation in life, not just my dealings with an alcoholic. I set those boundaries to protect my own well being.
I do not set boundaries to change another person's behaviors or choices either. They are free to engage inthe behaviors I find intolerable. Just not with me around.
Boundaries are not about control. Rules are all about control.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 15
@ mr b
reading your post now, and how you've been doing all the same things regarding limits with your ex-gf, i think you're right, it probably won't do any good. i am just clutching at straws here.
of course he will drink in secret to get the amount of beer he fancies, like he has been doing in the past.
i just feel if there is just ONE more night of boozing and driving me crazy then he will drive me not only crazy but i will go mental.
i actually felt very close to losing my sanity several times, like being stuck in an eternal time warp, and that there would be no way out.
you asked why i don't want him to drink.
when drinking he will be anything from opinionated to ignorant to acting like a child to being overly emotional.
just a couple of examples:
i can make some harmless remark about something on tv i don't agree with (say something on the news), and he will go off into a long lecture about how wrong or naive i am. and he won't let it go.
he will pour beer all over the floor, burn holes in the carpet (cigarettes) and generally make the place look like some user's flat in trainspotting. ;-) i will spend half an hour the next morning cleaning it up. i would leave it but i just cannot sit around in a mess.
he will wake me up (did i mention his record was 7 times in 2 hours) just to tell me he loves me and that he needs a cuddle.
plus all the other things i already mentioned, like making lots of noise so i cannot sleep, kicking one door in, and scaring my cat when shouting during arguments.
one last thing, which i found the most irresponsible of all, was to buy more booze early in the morning and LEAVING THE FRONT DOOR OPEN.
so he didn't need to close the door shut which might have woken me up and stoped him from getting more booze.
i don't care how unlikely a stranger walking in at this time of morning would be. you just don't do rubbish like that with your gf sleeping.
i did wake up anyway because he had enough presence of mind to lock the cat into the room with me so he couldn't run off.
unlucky for him my cat scratched on the door to get out and that's how i woke up anyway.
another couple of things why i don't want him to drink until he doesn't know what he's doing any more?
i got 2 more:
1 we went on holiday for a couple of days for my birthday, and the first thing he did was find a supermarket and buy lots of cheap beer. drank all night, then every following night (until he passed out on the couch), as well as all day long.
no sights, no nothing.
just a lot of pics with him looking totally wasted.
great to show the kids one day eh.
2 went out with lots of his mates and they all got wasted.
ended up going to one of the mate's place. i kept asking to call a cab to get home, he just said later later.
in the end they just dropped off to sleep just like that, 2 on the couch, 2 more in 2 beds. no space for me. i left the flat to get a cab. bad move cause no cabs around at 5am, when all bars are long shut. next bus service around 10am.
i was freezing (february), and walked around the little town for an hour. nobody out. cab companies in "my" town refused to pick me up since there were so many tricks being played on them. i was nearly crying on the phone.
the cabs in the town where i was weren't answering their phones, not even in business at this time (it was a sunday morning).
i felt getting number and weaker each minute and tried to call my bf and all his mates. they were passed out and not answering their phone.
i went back to the flat but there was some weird security number you had to dial to ring a bell for a flat and i didn't have it. pressed all sorts of numbers but nothing worked.
if it had they wouldn't have heard it anyway.
walked back around town until i got "rescued" by a window cleaner who was gonna start work. he drove me all the way home (half an hour's drive). i had to take my chances and get into his car or i am sure i would have passed out eventually, my thinking had already become somewhat muddled.
next day my bf called about noon, from a pub still in the same town. i had my my phone turned off until then. he said he'd been trying to phone me a few times.
what bugged me (and still does) is he didn't know where i was or what happened to me and yet rather then coming home asap to check i somehow got home ok he chose to go to the pub with his mates instead.
after i told him everything he said he was on his way home. got home after midnight.
so there we go. that's why i don't want him to drink so much. cause he turns into one of the most selfish and self-centred people i know. on the other hand, when he's not drinking he is extremely caring when i need him. which is why i hadn't given up on him yet.
about the ticket: i don't think he would hang around since i was thinking of also telling family etc. that he's going then (if not the real reason). i think there would be no way back then as he's too woried about what other people think.
okay, now this post was probably more than anyone wants to handle. sorry if it was too long. i have never told anyone about the really bad/neglectful things that happened because of the booze so unfortunately you have to listen to all this garbage. or chose not to, whichever. :-)
anyway good night, it's bed-time over here, and i will be sleeping on the couch again, with my cat. *g*
reading your post now, and how you've been doing all the same things regarding limits with your ex-gf, i think you're right, it probably won't do any good. i am just clutching at straws here.
of course he will drink in secret to get the amount of beer he fancies, like he has been doing in the past.
i just feel if there is just ONE more night of boozing and driving me crazy then he will drive me not only crazy but i will go mental.
i actually felt very close to losing my sanity several times, like being stuck in an eternal time warp, and that there would be no way out.
you asked why i don't want him to drink.
when drinking he will be anything from opinionated to ignorant to acting like a child to being overly emotional.
just a couple of examples:
i can make some harmless remark about something on tv i don't agree with (say something on the news), and he will go off into a long lecture about how wrong or naive i am. and he won't let it go.
he will pour beer all over the floor, burn holes in the carpet (cigarettes) and generally make the place look like some user's flat in trainspotting. ;-) i will spend half an hour the next morning cleaning it up. i would leave it but i just cannot sit around in a mess.
he will wake me up (did i mention his record was 7 times in 2 hours) just to tell me he loves me and that he needs a cuddle.
plus all the other things i already mentioned, like making lots of noise so i cannot sleep, kicking one door in, and scaring my cat when shouting during arguments.
one last thing, which i found the most irresponsible of all, was to buy more booze early in the morning and LEAVING THE FRONT DOOR OPEN.
so he didn't need to close the door shut which might have woken me up and stoped him from getting more booze.
i don't care how unlikely a stranger walking in at this time of morning would be. you just don't do rubbish like that with your gf sleeping.
i did wake up anyway because he had enough presence of mind to lock the cat into the room with me so he couldn't run off.
unlucky for him my cat scratched on the door to get out and that's how i woke up anyway.
another couple of things why i don't want him to drink until he doesn't know what he's doing any more?
i got 2 more:
1 we went on holiday for a couple of days for my birthday, and the first thing he did was find a supermarket and buy lots of cheap beer. drank all night, then every following night (until he passed out on the couch), as well as all day long.
no sights, no nothing.
just a lot of pics with him looking totally wasted.
great to show the kids one day eh.
2 went out with lots of his mates and they all got wasted.
ended up going to one of the mate's place. i kept asking to call a cab to get home, he just said later later.
in the end they just dropped off to sleep just like that, 2 on the couch, 2 more in 2 beds. no space for me. i left the flat to get a cab. bad move cause no cabs around at 5am, when all bars are long shut. next bus service around 10am.
i was freezing (february), and walked around the little town for an hour. nobody out. cab companies in "my" town refused to pick me up since there were so many tricks being played on them. i was nearly crying on the phone.
the cabs in the town where i was weren't answering their phones, not even in business at this time (it was a sunday morning).
i felt getting number and weaker each minute and tried to call my bf and all his mates. they were passed out and not answering their phone.
i went back to the flat but there was some weird security number you had to dial to ring a bell for a flat and i didn't have it. pressed all sorts of numbers but nothing worked.
if it had they wouldn't have heard it anyway.
walked back around town until i got "rescued" by a window cleaner who was gonna start work. he drove me all the way home (half an hour's drive). i had to take my chances and get into his car or i am sure i would have passed out eventually, my thinking had already become somewhat muddled.
next day my bf called about noon, from a pub still in the same town. i had my my phone turned off until then. he said he'd been trying to phone me a few times.
what bugged me (and still does) is he didn't know where i was or what happened to me and yet rather then coming home asap to check i somehow got home ok he chose to go to the pub with his mates instead.
after i told him everything he said he was on his way home. got home after midnight.
so there we go. that's why i don't want him to drink so much. cause he turns into one of the most selfish and self-centred people i know. on the other hand, when he's not drinking he is extremely caring when i need him. which is why i hadn't given up on him yet.
about the ticket: i don't think he would hang around since i was thinking of also telling family etc. that he's going then (if not the real reason). i think there would be no way back then as he's too woried about what other people think.
okay, now this post was probably more than anyone wants to handle. sorry if it was too long. i have never told anyone about the really bad/neglectful things that happened because of the booze so unfortunately you have to listen to all this garbage. or chose not to, whichever. :-)
anyway good night, it's bed-time over here, and i will be sleeping on the couch again, with my cat. *g*
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wizard Land Downunder
Posts: 2,615
I guess it is your choice to live with someone who drinks when he knows it upsets you, deliberately keeps you from your sleep when he knows you have work to go to, and has you unhappy enough with the way things are to post here. If you felt there wasn't anything to worry about, or be upset about, then there would be nothing to post about.
So many of us here have been thru the ringer with drinking partners, and nearly gone demented by the strain. We have no choice about a partners drinking, they make their own choices. The only choice for us is: do we want to go on the way we are or do we want something better. As I said it is your choice, as to what you want and decide.
Good luck with the boundary requests, I fear you will need it.
God bless
So many of us here have been thru the ringer with drinking partners, and nearly gone demented by the strain. We have no choice about a partners drinking, they make their own choices. The only choice for us is: do we want to go on the way we are or do we want something better. As I said it is your choice, as to what you want and decide.
Good luck with the boundary requests, I fear you will need it.
God bless
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