Question about codependency?
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 167
Question about codependency?
After reading about the personality traits of most codependent people, I find it hard to believe that every human on this earth isn't codependent in some way. Do any of you actually know someone who has no codependent behavoirs? Who are these people and were they born this way?????????? I would think that a super caring person..like a nun...would qualify but, does she care too much? Maybe not having any of these afflictions would make for a really boring life. I'm just sitting here sipping my coffee and thinking...hummmmmmm????
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: michigan
Posts: 30
I just started reading the book Codependency No More. We can care for people. The difference is how we care. If we care for someone in a healthy way, with love-kindness-compassion, it's ok.
When we rescue or take care of things for the alcoholic that they are capable of doing for themselves or prevent them from suffering consequences or make it easy for them to continue to drink that is not ok.
This book is amazing, I had the same questions and thoughts you do. This book answered all of my questions and really opened my eyes to reality.
Hope this helps!
When we rescue or take care of things for the alcoholic that they are capable of doing for themselves or prevent them from suffering consequences or make it easy for them to continue to drink that is not ok.
This book is amazing, I had the same questions and thoughts you do. This book answered all of my questions and really opened my eyes to reality.
Hope this helps!
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: a better place
Posts: 4,047
Susan put it perfectly - I think it isn't so much what we feel, it is how we act. I didn't realize until I started working on me that I harbored all kinds of resentments for so many of the so called helping and caring things I did. I also had a need that I didn't recognize to control things. Recovery has helped me to retain the more positive traits, like empathy and kindness and generosity, but to act in ways that do not attempt to control people...to give because I want to give, not because it makes me somehow feel better since i am saving the universe, lol.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 1,221
Greeteachday, totally described the way I am or should say use to be (still working on it) I always felt responsible for everyone's happiness, trying to fix everything (controlling) and I would end up causing more problems. My whole life was focused on everyone else and what they were doing...Now I am learning to just work on me and enjoy my life..no matter what others are doing...I am still there for others, just to listen and care, but I don't have to feel that I have to rescue them anymore..
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Codependency to me is "gifts with strings"
If I give love and "do actions" that have no expectations it's love
If I "give love" and am attached to the outcome it's unhealthy
One makes me Gandhi or Mother Theresa
The other makes me a raving lunatic
I lie to myself on a daily basis about whether my "love" has "strings" attached, I can "slip my leash" in under three seconds, this takes constant vigilance, and saying "what are my motives" repeatedly, and talking to my support group and sponsor 3-4 times a day until "love with strings" is no longer part of my daily automatic "modus operendi".
It's very very subtle, and what makes codependency really dangerous is if I'm "right" about something.
That makes me have a complete inability to "see my part".
The unhappiest I ever been in my life has always been "when I was right" or when "I was just being helpful".
I had to find out the hard way not only was I not "right" but the truth of the matter is I wasn't really being very helpful. I was just trying to arrange the world to suit my needs.
No matter how gracious, generous, "selfless", helpful, ...the list goes on I was being, if at the end of the day by really really really looking into myself and my motives I find out it's about "control" it's not "love" it's mental illness and will lead to suffering sure as night follows day.
This literally has "brought me to my knees" far more effectively and painfully and more times then anything in my life, and I have been in jail dozens and dozens of times for my drinking and "lost everything" including jobs, homes and relationships multiple times in my younger years.
When "my behavior" has "hurt" me, generally speaking I can spot it eventually, if it's "someone else's fault" I can get "stuck" for years.
It's incredibly subtle, and if left unchecked, incredibly painful, not just with romantic partners, but family, co-workers, other drivers, anyone that crosses my path.
For me, the spiritual axiom is if I am upset, there is something wrong with me, thank God for that, otherwise I'd just live the rest of my life as a helpless victim and life would be a series of unfortunate accidents like Kurt Vonnegut put it in Sirens of Titan.
I am powerless over anything I "give my power to"
If I give love and "do actions" that have no expectations it's love
If I "give love" and am attached to the outcome it's unhealthy
One makes me Gandhi or Mother Theresa
The other makes me a raving lunatic
I lie to myself on a daily basis about whether my "love" has "strings" attached, I can "slip my leash" in under three seconds, this takes constant vigilance, and saying "what are my motives" repeatedly, and talking to my support group and sponsor 3-4 times a day until "love with strings" is no longer part of my daily automatic "modus operendi".
It's very very subtle, and what makes codependency really dangerous is if I'm "right" about something.
That makes me have a complete inability to "see my part".
The unhappiest I ever been in my life has always been "when I was right" or when "I was just being helpful".
I had to find out the hard way not only was I not "right" but the truth of the matter is I wasn't really being very helpful. I was just trying to arrange the world to suit my needs.
No matter how gracious, generous, "selfless", helpful, ...the list goes on I was being, if at the end of the day by really really really looking into myself and my motives I find out it's about "control" it's not "love" it's mental illness and will lead to suffering sure as night follows day.
This literally has "brought me to my knees" far more effectively and painfully and more times then anything in my life, and I have been in jail dozens and dozens of times for my drinking and "lost everything" including jobs, homes and relationships multiple times in my younger years.
When "my behavior" has "hurt" me, generally speaking I can spot it eventually, if it's "someone else's fault" I can get "stuck" for years.
It's incredibly subtle, and if left unchecked, incredibly painful, not just with romantic partners, but family, co-workers, other drivers, anyone that crosses my path.
For me, the spiritual axiom is if I am upset, there is something wrong with me, thank God for that, otherwise I'd just live the rest of my life as a helpless victim and life would be a series of unfortunate accidents like Kurt Vonnegut put it in Sirens of Titan.
I am powerless over anything I "give my power to"
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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I believe the society we live in (especially in the US) condones and even encourages unhealthy attitudes and behaviors. Those attitudes and behaviors can be classified as codependent, IMHO. So, I don't think you have to be involved with an alcoholic or addict to exhibit codependent behaviors. The good news is, recognizing it is half the battle. Once you recognize your own unhealthy behaviors, you have the power to change them. No matter what kind of label you choose to put on them. 
Edit: Here is one of my favorite links about codependency, and the author believes that everyone is codependent to some extent, until they recognize it. Abundant Spirituality + codependency recovery + inner child healing = Joy2MeU
L
Edit: Here is one of my favorite links about codependency, and the author believes that everyone is codependent to some extent, until they recognize it. Abundant Spirituality + codependency recovery + inner child healing = Joy2MeU
L
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pac Northwest
Posts: 95
Freeflower, I understand what you're saying.
I'm actually not crazy about the label 'codependent'. Yes, I think we are all codependent to some degree. We are social creatures. We depend on eachother, we form connections, we create families.
I'm not going to focus on my codependency. We meet someone, and we become attached. How we attach is often influenced by our own family of origin. Some of us learn how to set boundaries better than others.
and some of us don't know the signs and patterns of alcoholism. If I had known the typical behaviors of alcoholics, I would have detached from my AH a long time ago. But I simply didn't know.
I think you raise a good question.
I'm actually not crazy about the label 'codependent'. Yes, I think we are all codependent to some degree. We are social creatures. We depend on eachother, we form connections, we create families.
I'm not going to focus on my codependency. We meet someone, and we become attached. How we attach is often influenced by our own family of origin. Some of us learn how to set boundaries better than others.
and some of us don't know the signs and patterns of alcoholism. If I had known the typical behaviors of alcoholics, I would have detached from my AH a long time ago. But I simply didn't know.
I think you raise a good question.
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
I fought attaching the label codependent on myself for quite some time. Denial runs deep I think. It took some hard work to see it in myself and to understand the difference being "normal" caring for others and codependent behavior. I thank God I finally had that breakthrough understanding. It has improved all my relationships: friends, my sons, coworkers, bosses, everyone.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
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FYI, here is a quote from the web page I linked to above. It is one of the very first things I read after realizing there was something deeply wrong in my marriage and myself. I didn't like the label, either, but the more I understood it, the more it fit.
Whether you want to use the label or not, the only way to get to a better place is to focus on your own behaviors and leave those of the alcoholic to them.
L
"Codependency is about having a dysfunctional relationship with self! With our own bodies, minds, emotions, and spirits. With our own gender and sexuality. With being human. Because we have dysfunctional relationships internally, we have dysfunctional relationships externally.
Codependency is an emotional and behavioral defense system which our egos adapted in early childhood to help us survive. We were raised in shame based, emotionally dishonest, Spiritually hostile environments by parents who were wounded in their childhoods by patriarchal, shame based civilization that treated children and women as property."
Codependency is an emotional and behavioral defense system which our egos adapted in early childhood to help us survive. We were raised in shame based, emotionally dishonest, Spiritually hostile environments by parents who were wounded in their childhoods by patriarchal, shame based civilization that treated children and women as property."
L
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 167
I was just at the store and was thinking about this some more and I had a AHA moment. I am a good one for thinking up a line and quikly writing it down. I have a whole draw of little ripped up papers with my thoughts. Most of the time, they sound really stupid a day later but i have kept them so I can look back sometimes and see how far I've come...well one came to mind, one that i jumped out of bed to write and it just occured to me that it was the most coed. statement I think I've ever thought. It says and I quote "sometimes I wonder if anyone will ever love me the most"......I get it!!!!!!!!!!!! I need to love me the most!!!!!!!!!ding ding!
This forum is like having your own personal shrink..I love it.
This forum is like having your own personal shrink..I love it.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pac Northwest
Posts: 95
Originally Posted by LaTeeDa 
Whether you want to use the label or not, the only way to get to a better place is to focus on your own behaviors and leave those of the alcoholic to them.
L
How else do you term a 'dysfunctional relationship w/ the self' ???
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