Is Sober Any Better?
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 46
Is Sober Any Better?
I've heard that dry drunks can be as bad or worse than the active alcoholics themselves. I've always been a pretty quiet enabler. I've never stopped him from drinking (only begged, pleaded, etc.) so he has never tried to quit for more than 2-3 days (leading him to believe that he can quit any time he wants). I KNEW that if I were to hold him to his word, he'd just do it behind my back, so I haven't tried to 'smell his breath' or find hidden bottles the way some people do. I have just known what to expect.
I'm forcing the issue now - because both of us are extremely unhealthy (him having had a heart attack a couple of months back and my nerves and health are shot). I've given him the tools (where to call, where to go, what to expect) and I'm still getting excuses of him having not had time to call. 'In the new year' - he says, but I'm not letting up this time ...
I'm sitting here thinking of how for the past 13 years, my real relationship has been with the alcoholic and not with the sober guy (even though he mostly drinks heavily between the hours of 7:00 p.m - 11:00 p.m - give or take). During the hours that he's sober, he's edgy, impatient, demanding and irritable and everything is business (get this done - get that done). Until he sits down for his drink, he's not nice and hardly talks on a personal level. Then - when he gets drunk, he wants my undivided attention, like a child, and even demands that I 'sit at his feet' like a dog, so that he can make sure I'm listening to every drunken word that comes out of his mouth. He keeps me up past my bedtime, which has now become 1:00 a.m. by the time I wind down from the stress and having 'put him to bed'.
I'm thinking about how horrible it's been all these years and what a hellhole my life has become. I'm thinking about how stuck I've become. I'm thinking about how I don't even know if I like this person - AND WOULD I LIKE THIS PERSON SOBER?
Is it imperative that the alcoholic continually go to AA and meetings in order for them to truly recover? I can see him quitting the drinking, but not following through on meetings (thinking he doesn't need them). What kind of monster would I be stuck with then?
Some days I don't think I'm gonna make it through all of this. I'm going to Al-Anon in the new year, myself, regardless of what he does. I've come to understand that it may be my only hope for a sense of sanity.
Once they get sober (if they do) - and you're still sick and angry and hurt and miserable and feeling betrayed at the infidelity and abuse and can suddenly be able to deal with them as a normal person - how can you let it all go? Wouldn't the first thing you want to do would be to ram it down their throat about the misery they've caused (when you feel they might actually be able to comprehend it)? But you couldn't do that because it might hamper their progression. How and WHY would you want to start all over with someone who had ruined so much of your life? How can you forgive and do you even want to?
I'm forcing the issue now - because both of us are extremely unhealthy (him having had a heart attack a couple of months back and my nerves and health are shot). I've given him the tools (where to call, where to go, what to expect) and I'm still getting excuses of him having not had time to call. 'In the new year' - he says, but I'm not letting up this time ...
I'm sitting here thinking of how for the past 13 years, my real relationship has been with the alcoholic and not with the sober guy (even though he mostly drinks heavily between the hours of 7:00 p.m - 11:00 p.m - give or take). During the hours that he's sober, he's edgy, impatient, demanding and irritable and everything is business (get this done - get that done). Until he sits down for his drink, he's not nice and hardly talks on a personal level. Then - when he gets drunk, he wants my undivided attention, like a child, and even demands that I 'sit at his feet' like a dog, so that he can make sure I'm listening to every drunken word that comes out of his mouth. He keeps me up past my bedtime, which has now become 1:00 a.m. by the time I wind down from the stress and having 'put him to bed'.
I'm thinking about how horrible it's been all these years and what a hellhole my life has become. I'm thinking about how stuck I've become. I'm thinking about how I don't even know if I like this person - AND WOULD I LIKE THIS PERSON SOBER?
Is it imperative that the alcoholic continually go to AA and meetings in order for them to truly recover? I can see him quitting the drinking, but not following through on meetings (thinking he doesn't need them). What kind of monster would I be stuck with then?
Some days I don't think I'm gonna make it through all of this. I'm going to Al-Anon in the new year, myself, regardless of what he does. I've come to understand that it may be my only hope for a sense of sanity.
Once they get sober (if they do) - and you're still sick and angry and hurt and miserable and feeling betrayed at the infidelity and abuse and can suddenly be able to deal with them as a normal person - how can you let it all go? Wouldn't the first thing you want to do would be to ram it down their throat about the misery they've caused (when you feel they might actually be able to comprehend it)? But you couldn't do that because it might hamper their progression. How and WHY would you want to start all over with someone who had ruined so much of your life? How can you forgive and do you even want to?
Can't make sense out of crazy.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the Bluegrass, Baby!
Posts: 211
I'm sorry, I don't have any answers for you. I have the exact same questions.
My big thing is trust, and how in the world would I ever be able to trust anything again?
Its been so easy for him to lie to me for so long, about anything, big or small.
It would take YEARS and lots of hard and probably frustrating work at it from both of us.
As much as I hate to say, think, or face it. I think it is too late. Too much damage has been done.
Like you ask, how do you come back from all of that and have a healthy, happy relationship?
Just wanted to send you a quick ((hug))
My big thing is trust, and how in the world would I ever be able to trust anything again?
Its been so easy for him to lie to me for so long, about anything, big or small.
It would take YEARS and lots of hard and probably frustrating work at it from both of us.
As much as I hate to say, think, or face it. I think it is too late. Too much damage has been done.
Like you ask, how do you come back from all of that and have a healthy, happy relationship?
Just wanted to send you a quick ((hug))
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Originally Posted by dazednconfuzed 
I'm thinking about how horrible it's been all these years and what a hellhole my life has become. I'm thinking about how stuck I've become. I'm thinking about how I don't even know if I like this person - AND WOULD I LIKE THIS PERSON SOBER?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Someplace USA
Posts: 415
I've been in Al-Anon meetings that one spouse was in that meeting and the other was down the hall at an AA meeting. They say it was really hard at the beginning; lots of anger to deal with, but they made it.
I've also met people who seem to be making it 12-30 years going with their partner still actively drinking. I have been with my AH for 7 years and I feel he's progressed to a point that he's goes between overly loving to this strange monster who hurts everyone who gets in it's path. I wouldn't trust him again. He needs intense therapy; he doesn't forgive. (Not even his sister from years ago) I don't think getting him sober can save our relationship.
I think you will know what YOU need to make it work. You will learn during your recovery process what you really want and need. Then decide. Sometimes it takes awhile for us to get "well"; after all alcohol has been effecting us too.
Hang in there your on the right track!
I've also met people who seem to be making it 12-30 years going with their partner still actively drinking. I have been with my AH for 7 years and I feel he's progressed to a point that he's goes between overly loving to this strange monster who hurts everyone who gets in it's path. I wouldn't trust him again. He needs intense therapy; he doesn't forgive. (Not even his sister from years ago) I don't think getting him sober can save our relationship.
I think you will know what YOU need to make it work. You will learn during your recovery process what you really want and need. Then decide. Sometimes it takes awhile for us to get "well"; after all alcohol has been effecting us too.
Hang in there your on the right track!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Northern KY
Posts: 168
Awww, I know what you're feeling because I'm right there with you. Maybe at the same stage in my long roller coaster of 13yrs.
Mine did quit drinking once for about a year, I still resented him and he still acted badly. We split up and that was his excuse for drinking, pills and infidelity.
I'm sorry that this is where you are at, everyone is right though. You can't change the AH or AW, it's been painful for me to come to this conclusion because it's the truth I didn't want to see. In a way though it's easier to accept it and go forward from there with difficult decisions.
Mine did quit drinking once for about a year, I still resented him and he still acted badly. We split up and that was his excuse for drinking, pills and infidelity.
I'm sorry that this is where you are at, everyone is right though. You can't change the AH or AW, it's been painful for me to come to this conclusion because it's the truth I didn't want to see. In a way though it's easier to accept it and go forward from there with difficult decisions.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
I'm forcing the issue now - because both of us are extremely unhealthy (him having had a heart attack a couple of months back and my nerves and health are shot). I've given him the tools (where to call, where to go, what to expect) and I'm still getting excuses of him having not had time to call. 'In the new year' - he says, but I'm not letting up this time ...
"I'LL SHOW HER" and he'll keep on drinking.
Is it imperative that the alcoholic continually go to AA and meetings in order for them to truly recover? I can see him quitting the drinking, but not following through on meetings (thinking he doesn't need them). What kind of monster would I be stuck with then?
"You go to meetings until YOU WANT to go to meetings then you don't have to go anymore."
If and when he FINDS his OWN RECOVERY, going to meetings, be they AA or SMART or whatever, will not be a problem for him.
In the beginning, personally, I literally LIVED in meetings, attending up to 20 a week, as they were the only place I felt safe. As I worked the step and became a little more confident, my meeting attendance declined and by about 3 years sober was only going to 4 to 5 a week. As time went on, that decreased more and now I attend when I want to attend.
Same thing with my Alanon, in the beginning I was hitting every Alanon meeting I could find in a 60 mile radius, rofl Today 24+ years later I have 2 favorites that I attend when my health allows me to.
This really is no longer about HIM. This has now become about YOU and what type of life YOU WANT. What are you doing for you today?
Now would be a good time to get back to the basic 3 C's
You didn't CAUSE it,
You can't CONTROL it, and
You can't CURE it.
It being his alcohol problems. So, back to you. What do you want? What are your boundaries? What behaviors are acceptable, if any, and what behaviors are no longer acceptable? Alanon can help you with this, and in the process you will find bits and pieces of peace and serenity returning.
J M H O
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing, we/I do care so very much.
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
I empathize with you. I didn't want to live life in a hellhole any longer and came to understand I was the only one who could change that. Today my life is wonderful. My wish for the new year is that xAH, and all those who still suffer from this horrific disease, find recovery and happiness.
((( )))
((( )))
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: looking for the sun in cold MN
Posts: 775
I'm sorry you are struggling. I was as well- for many years- until STBXAH left. At first I was devastated, but soon realized I had a gift before me if I chose to "open" it. STBXAH was unfaithful, lied, hid his drinking, was- and still is- verbally and emotionally abusive. Once he left, I had time to think about how I had been living and who I had become. I didn't like myself. Every day since, I have worked on becoming the healthy person I want to be. It hasn't been easy, but I have done it with support from good friends, family, SR, al-anon and a wonderful counselor.
I couldn't live with the frustration, the chaos or pain any longer. I hope you will continue to come here for support and ask the hard questions you are asking. There is a way out. (((Peace.)))
I couldn't live with the frustration, the chaos or pain any longer. I hope you will continue to come here for support and ask the hard questions you are asking. There is a way out. (((Peace.)))
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 1,221
Yes, sober is definitely better, my H and I have been sobler for many years now, but it has not been easy. At first we were both in AA, I have been to alanon, but eventually he stopped going to meetings but I have continued to work on my program. Things have gradually got better over the years, although sometimes my A is not the easiest person to live with. I would never live with drinking again.....but I finding more peace in my life and happiness even though everything is not perfect in my life...I know I can't change anyone but myself now....
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
I've read and reread the original post, asking myself over and over, "Is Sober any better"
I can emphatically and resoundingly state "Yes!!!"
Sober is better........for me
I'm sober
I am in "recovery" both for my codependence and my alcoholism
That's all I can do
However, I did notice one thing, if I concentrate on making me better, making me healthy, I make healthy decisions, my well being is no longer dependent on others.
I have placed myself in such a position so my happiness doesn't hinge on whether someone else is sober or not, whether someone else is healthy or not, I have stopped giving my power to practicing alcoholics, I have taken my power back.
When I got sober, all these people used to come up to me and explain "their drinking" to me, how it "has gotten a lot better" and how they "drink a lot less then they used to" and I used to laugh and tell them I didn't care, their drinking didn't interest me in the slightest when I was drinking, and quite frankly, interested me even less after I got sober, and I would say "Frankly My dear, I don't give a damn!"
Somewhere along the line that changed, and I placed myself in a position where someone else had power over me, someone with a drinking problem, an alcoholic, and shortly into my relationship with that person, I gave them my power, and their drinking, their behaviors, had power over me, and soon I was so sick I couldn't tell you how I was, I couldn't tell you how I felt.
The first step in Alanon states we admitted we were powerless over alcohol
I finally learned I am powerless over anything I give my power to.
Today I choose not to give my power to practicing alcoholics, I mean out of everyone in the whole world they are the least qualified to run their own lives, I am going to let them run mine?
I don't think so.
So I would reframe the question for me, not "Is it better if THEY get sober?" to "Will it be better if I get into recovery, take care of myself, and take my power back, take my power of choice back, take personal responsibility back for myself, and not let my personal happiness hinge on someone else's addiction.
I can emphatically and resoundingly state "Yes!!!"
Sober is better........for me
I'm sober
I am in "recovery" both for my codependence and my alcoholism
That's all I can do
However, I did notice one thing, if I concentrate on making me better, making me healthy, I make healthy decisions, my well being is no longer dependent on others.
I have placed myself in such a position so my happiness doesn't hinge on whether someone else is sober or not, whether someone else is healthy or not, I have stopped giving my power to practicing alcoholics, I have taken my power back.
When I got sober, all these people used to come up to me and explain "their drinking" to me, how it "has gotten a lot better" and how they "drink a lot less then they used to" and I used to laugh and tell them I didn't care, their drinking didn't interest me in the slightest when I was drinking, and quite frankly, interested me even less after I got sober, and I would say "Frankly My dear, I don't give a damn!"
Somewhere along the line that changed, and I placed myself in a position where someone else had power over me, someone with a drinking problem, an alcoholic, and shortly into my relationship with that person, I gave them my power, and their drinking, their behaviors, had power over me, and soon I was so sick I couldn't tell you how I was, I couldn't tell you how I felt.
The first step in Alanon states we admitted we were powerless over alcohol
I finally learned I am powerless over anything I give my power to.
Today I choose not to give my power to practicing alcoholics, I mean out of everyone in the whole world they are the least qualified to run their own lives, I am going to let them run mine?
I don't think so.
So I would reframe the question for me, not "Is it better if THEY get sober?" to "Will it be better if I get into recovery, take care of myself, and take my power back, take my power of choice back, take personal responsibility back for myself, and not let my personal happiness hinge on someone else's addiction.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: California
Posts: 239
dazednconfuzed, I have decided that i just don't trust my AW anymore. I've stopped trying to understand, and stress on the situation. If she changes and I feel trust then so be it but I don't and I'm going to move on in my life. I choose not be be with ANYONE I can't trust.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 34
DII's hit home with me. My AH has been not drinking for a few months, even found a specialist to talk to (big step). We've had a few situations where he would have a sarcastic tone to me if I had a couple of drinks, even though he's insisted that I need to continue my life, he's the one with the problem, he can't expect everyone around him to change - blah blah blah. So we had words about that passive/aggressive behavior. AND last night I happened to look at bank statement online and was shocked and angered to see a HUGE amount of ATM withdrawls. I called him (he's out of town) and asked and yelled and got suspicious. So in answer to your question - I am beginning to think w/o trust a relationship is doomed! He has a long history of lying, I know part of the 'disease' but crap - how will I ever know what he's doing?? I am getting tired of this game and may need to quit.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
For me, the only way to RE-EARN all the trust I had destroyed was by MY ACTIONS. Not my words.
Slowly, as I stayed in recovery, and I started to get a little healthier, physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually, MY ACTIONS, showed more of what was going on with me, to my loved ones, than any words I could have said.
I know of relationships that have made it, that the trust slowly returned, and I know of relationships where they didn't.
Only you as individuals will know if the ACTION of the loved one is showing you how serious the person is about recovery.
Hope you all have a peaceful, serene Merry Christmas!!!!
Love and hugs,
Slowly, as I stayed in recovery, and I started to get a little healthier, physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually, MY ACTIONS, showed more of what was going on with me, to my loved ones, than any words I could have said.
I know of relationships that have made it, that the trust slowly returned, and I know of relationships where they didn't.
Only you as individuals will know if the ACTION of the loved one is showing you how serious the person is about recovery.
Hope you all have a peaceful, serene Merry Christmas!!!!
Love and hugs,
get it, give it, grow in it
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calif coast
Posts: 3,167
Sober is better.
But that is not recovery. Recovery takes time, effort and commitment to change.
Since you've come to learn that you can't force him into recovery, it sounds like you are ready for your own.
If you work the 12 steps yourself through al-anon it just might be the blueprint for your own life to change. I know mine did.
But that is not recovery. Recovery takes time, effort and commitment to change.
Since you've come to learn that you can't force him into recovery, it sounds like you are ready for your own.
If you work the 12 steps yourself through al-anon it just might be the blueprint for your own life to change. I know mine did.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Hotel California
Posts: 175
A good friend on mine put his wife through a lot during his active addiction. When he got clean he did it for himself not because she gave him an ultimatum or threatened to leave.
It took years for his wife to learn to trust him. He really wanted to keep his family and was willing to take Antabuse and submit to drug testing. He also agreed to go to counseling.
The relationship survived and is solid today but the key is that he was willing to do the work necessary to keep her. In his case (and hers) sobriety is much better than the alternative. In your case it sounds like you are the only one willing to do the work.
Best of luck to you. I hope that you find the answer that is right for you. Maybe he'll be an exception but I don't know of too many of those.
God Bless
-R
It took years for his wife to learn to trust him. He really wanted to keep his family and was willing to take Antabuse and submit to drug testing. He also agreed to go to counseling.
The relationship survived and is solid today but the key is that he was willing to do the work necessary to keep her. In his case (and hers) sobriety is much better than the alternative. In your case it sounds like you are the only one willing to do the work.
Best of luck to you. I hope that you find the answer that is right for you. Maybe he'll be an exception but I don't know of too many of those.
God Bless
-R
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: southern indiana
Posts: 2,145
sober is a start, at least. the hard work comes with recovery. i've met alcholics who had to live, eat, and breathe aa meetings and aa connections for a long time in order to maintain their sobriety and get mentally healthy.
my xah tried many times to get sober, but it was always used as an attempt to save our relationship (sugar mama), but balked when it came to diving headfirst into recovery.
he was just as messed up sober as when he was drinking. his attitude stunk, he was hateful, resentful, restless, and irratable to put it very nicely.
i was always surprised at some of the most mean things he could come up with. he was miserable, and it seemed his mission was to make everyone around him just as miserable as he was. everytime i thought i had heard it all from him, he would toss another zinger that would shock the socks offa me.
on the other hand, i've met alcoholics with years of recovery under their belts and they are a true joy to be around.
i'm so deeply sorry that yet another family is being effected by alcoholism.
many hugs to you
jeri
my xah tried many times to get sober, but it was always used as an attempt to save our relationship (sugar mama), but balked when it came to diving headfirst into recovery.
he was just as messed up sober as when he was drinking. his attitude stunk, he was hateful, resentful, restless, and irratable to put it very nicely.
i was always surprised at some of the most mean things he could come up with. he was miserable, and it seemed his mission was to make everyone around him just as miserable as he was. everytime i thought i had heard it all from him, he would toss another zinger that would shock the socks offa me.
on the other hand, i've met alcoholics with years of recovery under their belts and they are a true joy to be around.
i'm so deeply sorry that yet another family is being effected by alcoholism.
many hugs to you
jeri
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 46
Thanks ...
to all of you who took the time to read my post and respond.
The insight from you is so very powerful and gives me some hope where there was none. One thing that particularly stood out was from Ago:
Today I choose not to give my power to practicing alcoholics, I mean out of everyone in the whole world they are the least qualified to run their own lives, I am going to let them run mine?
I don't think so.
I am absolutely shocked at the realization that this is exactly what I've allowed to happen! I can't remember when I ran my own. I don't even know how anymore ... sad.
The insight from you is so very powerful and gives me some hope where there was none. One thing that particularly stood out was from Ago:
Today I choose not to give my power to practicing alcoholics, I mean out of everyone in the whole world they are the least qualified to run their own lives, I am going to let them run mine?
I don't think so.
I am absolutely shocked at the realization that this is exactly what I've allowed to happen! I can't remember when I ran my own. I don't even know how anymore ... sad.
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