do they not have remorse?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 75
You are possibly better off going through the grieving process and letting go. My last relationship and the way it all ended was definitely the last kick in the ribs that made me put the drink down and see that I was ruining my life and by extension, the lives of others.
If he's really getting sober and working some sort of program (AA/RR/SOS/other form of beneficial behavior modification), he's going to learn how to have a healthy relationship with himself, first. You'll learn a lot of lessons from this one, but don't just pick at yourself. Be gentle with yourself. This is pretty traumatic stuff, and a matter of life or death when we're drinking.
Don't think of it as a blow to you personally, it usually isn't. Most of us have to re-learn all sorts of stuff all over again, because we've been doing it through a haze.
If he's really getting sober and working some sort of program (AA/RR/SOS/other form of beneficial behavior modification), he's going to learn how to have a healthy relationship with himself, first. You'll learn a lot of lessons from this one, but don't just pick at yourself. Be gentle with yourself. This is pretty traumatic stuff, and a matter of life or death when we're drinking.
Don't think of it as a blow to you personally, it usually isn't. Most of us have to re-learn all sorts of stuff all over again, because we've been doing it through a haze.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
I believe some things need to be CLARIFIED here.
Not drinking IS NOT recovery.
Not drinking and working on one's self harder than one has worked on anything in their life IS recovery.
I do believe it takes a 'bottom.' For most I know that have obtained and maintained sobriety, that bottom is HELL. Until one is totally BANKRUPT in EVERY aspect of their life, SPIRITUALLY, EMOTIONALLY, PHYSICALLY, AND FINANCIALLY, the Alkie/Addict does not have that little 'urge,' 'need,' 'desire,' to try and save themselves.
I also believe that for me to get into recovery for my codie side I also had to be TOTALLY BANKRUPT SPIRITUALLY, and EMOTIONALLY along with MORE HEALTH PROBLEMS and FINANCIAL DISTRESS. That once again got me off my butt, to take a good look at what I was DOING TO ME.
Good manipulation ploy. ie You'll feel sorry for me, you will think it's your fault and I can get back to the style of living I want to continue (drinking) because you will enable me.
I personally would not and will not date a recovering alcoholic or addict with under a minimum of 10 consecutive years in recovery and until I have observed them for a long long time, in all sorts of 'group' situations to see how they interact and react. Do they walk the way they talk?
That is just me, and that too I had to LEARN the hard way, with great pain and hurt involved.
Do I associate with sober and clean addicts? Yep. Have some really really close friends. Do I work with newcomers and some still wet? Yep. But.........................when I meet an alkie/addict they have to earn my trust. How do they do that? Their ACTIONS. Their ACTIONS will show me if they are still QUACKING or not.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
Not drinking IS NOT recovery.
Not drinking and working on one's self harder than one has worked on anything in their life IS recovery.
I do believe it takes a 'bottom.' For most I know that have obtained and maintained sobriety, that bottom is HELL. Until one is totally BANKRUPT in EVERY aspect of their life, SPIRITUALLY, EMOTIONALLY, PHYSICALLY, AND FINANCIALLY, the Alkie/Addict does not have that little 'urge,' 'need,' 'desire,' to try and save themselves.
I also believe that for me to get into recovery for my codie side I also had to be TOTALLY BANKRUPT SPIRITUALLY, and EMOTIONALLY along with MORE HEALTH PROBLEMS and FINANCIAL DISTRESS. That once again got me off my butt, to take a good look at what I was DOING TO ME.
Then I realized that he cut his wrist.
I personally would not and will not date a recovering alcoholic or addict with under a minimum of 10 consecutive years in recovery and until I have observed them for a long long time, in all sorts of 'group' situations to see how they interact and react. Do they walk the way they talk?
That is just me, and that too I had to LEARN the hard way, with great pain and hurt involved.
Do I associate with sober and clean addicts? Yep. Have some really really close friends. Do I work with newcomers and some still wet? Yep. But.........................when I meet an alkie/addict they have to earn my trust. How do they do that? Their ACTIONS. Their ACTIONS will show me if they are still QUACKING or not.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
That's right, it hurts a lot but LOVE is an action word as I read somewhere else
They can quack as you say, "I love yoouuuuuuuuuuu" with the sweetest eyes and by night they are past beyond drunkedness hurting you.
I am not sure what love is but THAT certainly IS NOT!!
They can quack as you say, "I love yoouuuuuuuuuuu" with the sweetest eyes and by night they are past beyond drunkedness hurting you.
I am not sure what love is but THAT certainly IS NOT!!
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
it hurts a lot to have the bar setup high while in love and then see it go lower and lower
but it also a good chance to see if you have enough self esteem to leave a place, that may have had love at one time (who knows), but where right now... there is no love for you
but it also a good chance to see if you have enough self esteem to leave a place, that may have had love at one time (who knows), but where right now... there is no love for you
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: southern indiana
Posts: 2,145
do they feel remorse? imho, active addicts are amongst the most tormented people walking the face of the earth.
do they show remorse? mine showed it everytime he was about to be thrown out into the street.
i agree with laurie that once they are truly, wholly, and honestly into recovery, the removse comes, with a god-given chance to try and make things as right as they possibly can, and scrub their soul clean.
until then, i feel they are completely driven by their addiction. people are objects and are treated in a way to let their addiction live and thrive.
i remember all the lost ones out there every night in my prayers.
do they show remorse? mine showed it everytime he was about to be thrown out into the street.
i agree with laurie that once they are truly, wholly, and honestly into recovery, the removse comes, with a god-given chance to try and make things as right as they possibly can, and scrub their soul clean.
until then, i feel they are completely driven by their addiction. people are objects and are treated in a way to let their addiction live and thrive.
i remember all the lost ones out there every night in my prayers.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cali
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by YaySartre 
You are possibly better off going through the grieving process and letting go. My last relationship and the way it all ended was definitely the last kick in the ribs that made me put the drink down and see that I was ruining my life and by extension, the lives of others.
If he's really getting sober and working some sort of program (AA/RR/SOS/other form of beneficial behavior modification), he's going to learn how to have a healthy relationship with himself, first. You'll learn a lot of lessons from this one, but don't just pick at yourself. Be gentle with yourself. This is pretty traumatic stuff, and a matter of life or death when we're drinking.
Don't think of it as a blow to you personally, it usually isn't. Most of us have to re-learn all sorts of stuff all over again, because we've been doing it through a haze.
If he's really getting sober and working some sort of program (AA/RR/SOS/other form of beneficial behavior modification), he's going to learn how to have a healthy relationship with himself, first. You'll learn a lot of lessons from this one, but don't just pick at yourself. Be gentle with yourself. This is pretty traumatic stuff, and a matter of life or death when we're drinking.
Don't think of it as a blow to you personally, it usually isn't. Most of us have to re-learn all sorts of stuff all over again, because we've been doing it through a haze.
today, he deleted me off of our messenger service. i think the exchange bothered him. i think he is more bothered that maybe i didnt react and call him. so he deleted me today because that was the only way i would deal with him. he wants me to call to kick and scream at him but i wont. its too much to chase someone who is chasing their own tail and not knowing why. i am exhausted and i really am trying to understand this ill person and the lack of remorse. the holidays are here and it makes everything more emotionally draining. i hope everyone who has written in this thread has some sense of peace and joy
happy holidays
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cali
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by anvilhead
he has the right to conduct his life however he sees fit....AS DO YOU. you have the opportunity now to GET ON with your life....free from the albatross of addiction, the elephant is OUT of the living room. this last "exchange" even thru a third party can be the last time you have to be entangled in the past....OR you can continue to have expectations on someone who never WAS able to live up to them, and continue to be hurt and disappointed.
this is your shot now. your chance. your choice.
fingers crossed!
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
Not drinking IS NOT recovery.
Not drinking and working on one's self harder than one has worked on anything in their life IS recovery.
Not drinking and working on one's self harder than one has worked on anything in their life IS recovery.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Not drinking IS NOT recovery.
Not drinking and working on one's self harder than one has worked on anything in their life IS recovery.
Not drinking and working on one's self harder than one has worked on anything in their life IS recovery.
Double winner speaker at the meeting last night, amazing gentleness, self awareness, and recovery, was very pow'ful for me, especially since I have known her since she came in ten years ago, her growth and journey were phenomenal and gave me permission to be "human" as well.
I beat myself up a bit now and again, so to hear her love and compassion and to hear various shares from around the room from people I've known for twenty years with between twenty years of sobriety and six weeks was incredible. ( needed a meeting last night so I went to my old Home group last night, peopled by folks I grew up with) and it was all very "double winner" based shares, one thing that was powerful is it's her son going into the disease now and there were about 50 sober teenagers at the meeting, made her cry with hope.
very powerful.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Hi spda,
Stick to your guns!! You are very bright and you deserve much more than this guy. He would probably get along very well with my own ex lol.
Starting to take different paths was among the most hurtful moments I have lived, but remember he is not the person you knew before. It is just heartbreaking to remember them in their good sober moments, all the plans, promises and actual good times!! but remember that those guys will always be alive in our hearts (the good qualities and what we learned from them) and maybe... we can have hope...that they will find recovery and be back with us, and by that I mean "here in planet Earth, not under the addiction's distorsions of reality".
For now, we just lost them. They are in the hands of God. Miss your ex all you need to.. it is natural.. play all the songs, see all the pictures..just get it out.. but do not be fooled, the person right now harming you is an alcoholic. There is no place for anything else in his heart other than alcohol and people around to reinforce the addiction.
It is very tough but believe me, after a few weeks I am starting to get on my feet and it was by far the best decision. I could have stayed and lost all my life clinging to the past, suffering and in dismay. There are other healthier guys out there waiting for us to be healthy ourselves :> and they will probably be more handsome, cuter, NICER with us, and better in bed LOL (mine fell asleep once before the act.. and usually never lasted that much, he was just drunk.)
What was I thinking?
Stick to your guns!! You are very bright and you deserve much more than this guy. He would probably get along very well with my own ex lol.
Starting to take different paths was among the most hurtful moments I have lived, but remember he is not the person you knew before. It is just heartbreaking to remember them in their good sober moments, all the plans, promises and actual good times!! but remember that those guys will always be alive in our hearts (the good qualities and what we learned from them) and maybe... we can have hope...that they will find recovery and be back with us, and by that I mean "here in planet Earth, not under the addiction's distorsions of reality".
For now, we just lost them. They are in the hands of God. Miss your ex all you need to.. it is natural.. play all the songs, see all the pictures..just get it out.. but do not be fooled, the person right now harming you is an alcoholic. There is no place for anything else in his heart other than alcohol and people around to reinforce the addiction.
It is very tough but believe me, after a few weeks I am starting to get on my feet and it was by far the best decision. I could have stayed and lost all my life clinging to the past, suffering and in dismay. There are other healthier guys out there waiting for us to be healthy ourselves :> and they will probably be more handsome, cuter, NICER with us, and better in bed LOL (mine fell asleep once before the act.. and usually never lasted that much, he was just drunk.)
What was I thinking?
Yield beautiful changes
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: A home filled with love
Posts: 1,698
What would happen if you wished the very best for him?
If you hoped that his path would be bright and straight and filled with love?
If you stopped needing him to take action in order for you to find peace?
Some days I feel like forgiving my alcoholic was the single greatest blessing I've ever given myself.
It takes time - hugs and prayers for you today.
-TC
If you hoped that his path would be bright and straight and filled with love?
If you stopped needing him to take action in order for you to find peace?
Some days I feel like forgiving my alcoholic was the single greatest blessing I've ever given myself.
It takes time - hugs and prayers for you today.
-TC
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Hi ToughChoices!!
I promise you I will work to get out of my anger stage.
I want to say I have forgiven him already, but I would like to really mean it when I say it. :>
And yes, forgiveness is the best gift
Especially forgiveness to oneself and your own mistakes. Those are the most difficult to forgive.
Of course there is a lot of work and effort before reaching that state! When you remember how you did not defend yourself.. or ran right away at the first betrayal of trust.
Cheers
I promise you I will work to get out of my anger stage.
I want to say I have forgiven him already, but I would like to really mean it when I say it. :>
And yes, forgiveness is the best gift
Especially forgiveness to oneself and your own mistakes. Those are the most difficult to forgive.
Of course there is a lot of work and effort before reaching that state! When you remember how you did not defend yourself.. or ran right away at the first betrayal of trust.
Cheers
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
I found that praying for someone I have a resentment against yielded results, I was told to pray that they get everything I ever wanted.
I fought it tooth and nail, I railed, I yelled, I screamed, I ranted, then I started praying and it started to loosen up, I started to loosen up.
I also use a "God Box' I have like a "piggy bank" and I will write this person's name on a slip of paper, put it in the box, therefore "turn it over to God" (box) then if I thought about them, I would be able to say, "I gave them to God, I don't get to think about them any more"
I "slip" sometimes when I get "triggered", I think we all do, but I am unable to think myself into right action, but there are actions I can take that actually change my thinking.
I fought it tooth and nail, I railed, I yelled, I screamed, I ranted, then I started praying and it started to loosen up, I started to loosen up.
I also use a "God Box' I have like a "piggy bank" and I will write this person's name on a slip of paper, put it in the box, therefore "turn it over to God" (box) then if I thought about them, I would be able to say, "I gave them to God, I don't get to think about them any more"
I "slip" sometimes when I get "triggered", I think we all do, but I am unable to think myself into right action, but there are actions I can take that actually change my thinking.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 223
Originally Posted by brundle
I think just like they drink to cover up other feelings; they drink to cover up remorse. It's like they pickle themselves so they don't have to feel things too much.
I think with my A, he's simply a selfish individual who has some jacked up wiring in his brain. Simple as that. The whole "poor poor pitiful me" act is just a bunch of smoke and mirrors used by his mind to justify self destruction and overall inconsideration of anybody but himself. His life was no more traumatic than anybody else, if anything it was more charmed than most. Anyway, I apologize for going off on a tangent.
No Codie No More.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 155
I also have experienced the no remose complex. They don't have the same emotions as "normal" people do and I think this is where the pain comes home, where we expect normal reactions,emotions from someone who is in a abnormal state.
we become attached and this is why we get hurt. if you were walking down the street and a total stranger said what they say to us, we all know they would be on the floor yet because we EXPECT normal behavior, we see it as fraud, betrayal, disappointment, disturbed etc.
we become attached and this is why we get hurt. if you were walking down the street and a total stranger said what they say to us, we all know they would be on the floor yet because we EXPECT normal behavior, we see it as fraud, betrayal, disappointment, disturbed etc.
No Codie No More.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 155
Originally Posted by hmbld
You know, I used to think that, but now I'm not so sure. I think they use that excuse because we buy it hook, line, and sinker. It's hard for us to understand why there would be any other reason to embalm themselves, and it plays into our need to help and fix and nurture.
I think with my A, he's simply a selfish individual who has some jacked up wiring in his brain. Simple as that. The whole "poor poor pitiful me" act is just a bunch of smoke and mirrors used by his mind to justify self destruction and overall inconsideration of anybody but himself. His life was no more traumatic than anybody else, if anything it was more charmed than most. Anyway, I apologize for going off on a tangent.
I think with my A, he's simply a selfish individual who has some jacked up wiring in his brain. Simple as that. The whole "poor poor pitiful me" act is just a bunch of smoke and mirrors used by his mind to justify self destruction and overall inconsideration of anybody but himself. His life was no more traumatic than anybody else, if anything it was more charmed than most. Anyway, I apologize for going off on a tangent.
you can toss the bad childhood or excuses they use out the window because it doesn't work like that.
I find reading academic studies helpfull than the usual mundane articles you find on the web.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10
drained - I read that book too. I would love to believe that it was all true. I can't escape the paradoxes in it tho. Most of the scientific info is spot on - the conclusions are a little "leap of faith" for my liking.
Remorse? Surely that comes along with a conscience. Not sure that the conscience is functioning when drinking is happening. And when you add in the oft present mental illness....well remorse is a way down the line.
Life is short - why waste it waiting for an expression of remorse that may never come?
Remorse? Surely that comes along with a conscience. Not sure that the conscience is functioning when drinking is happening. And when you add in the oft present mental illness....well remorse is a way down the line.
Life is short - why waste it waiting for an expression of remorse that may never come?
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