JustMeInWI

I'm trying to mentally prepare myself for Saturday and could use some advice from those who have been there...

A little history: Shortly after leavin my house and staying with friends, I began to see very clearly that there was very subtle, emotional/ verbal/ phsycological abuse coming from RAH, and knew that was not something to be taken lightly. I filed for divorce after being out of the house about 2 weeks. That was a little over a month ago. When I tried to explain it to my mom and stepdad, they freaked. They believe my RAH (recovering/sober AH) to be an incredibly nice guy and since he's filled their head with "poor me, I'm the victim, she's REJECTING me" stories, they are very upset with me.

The twist comes in because my mom and stepdad have four other daughters (ages 11-18). I helped my mom raise them (since we were all homeschooled), so they are VERY dear to me and close to my heart. Well, since I filed for divorce, my mom is freaking out. She hasn't told my sisters about the divorce and she's told me they're going to be traumatized by hearing this from me and it'll be like they're own parents are getting a divorce. She doesn't trust me to share what's happening with my sisters in a safe/loving way and insists that both she and her husband are present when it is discussed. I said that is fine, and I know it won't be easy, but I think she's really being extreme about this and it's scaring me about how she's going to "get them to react"... do you know what I mean?

I'm realizing how controlling she is (much like my stbXRAH). That is why she homeschooled us in the first place. She needed to shelter and protect us from anything "bad" and she needed to make sure we didn't learn anything "wrong" at school - like evolution.

Mom told me she's already talked with my sister who is 18, and now my sister will no longer return my emails (she went away to college this year). My mom said that she (my 18yo sister) is "afraid that I'm going to try to talk to them when their parents aren't around and all the girls will freak out"... why would she be afraid of me? I've never done anything to hurt any of my sisters. They've always known they can trust me, count on me, etc. She used to confide in me when things were rough for her at home and she didn't know who she could trust.

I hope I don't sound like I'm babbling. I guess I'm just looking for what would be reasonable to talk about with four young ladies when it comes to my moving out of my house and getting a divorce from an abusive man (whom they have come to like/love as my husband and their brother-in-law) and how to keep my parents civil and at-bay and from making this situation a traumatic experience for everyone (including myself).... *gaack*

All your help, support, and suggestions are appreciated.

denny57

One of my best friends told me this story. His mother had him when she was 17 and the father took off. Mom remarried when my friend was 7 and then had 2 other children with stepdad. Never told stepchildren they didn't all share same biological father.

After my friend got into recovery he told his mother he was going to tell his brother and sister. She told him exactly what your mother is telling you. He took them out to a diner sat them down and said I have something to tell you. What, what? He told them and they started crying - they thought he was going to tell them he had a terminal illness.

I don't know your mother or your sisters, but is it possible your mother is projecting her beliefs onto them?

It isn't easy for me to have these conversations with family; I hope it goes well.

((( )))

laurie6781

Actually there needn't be a 'discussion.'

If you CHOOSE to tell your sisters, of YOUR DECISION, it can be very simple. Will take about two minutes. If when you start to speak your mother or step dad try to interrupt, hold up your hand in a 'stop' position and just say "when I am finished speaking." Then get back to what you were saying.

Maybe something short and simple like this"

"Hey I have something to tell you. After much thought and writing I have decided to no longer be a verbal and/or emotional WHIPPING POST for anyone, (look directly at your mother while saying that last bit) and so I have filed for divorce. There will be NO discussion, this was and is my decision, I just want y'all to know."

"Now whats for lunch, supper, etc?"

Then you can walk away, it is not up for a 'family pow wow', approval, or anything else. All you are doing is letting them know that you have decided for your own well being, health, peace, and serenity to remove RAH from your life.

I know about controlling mothers, and the only way I ever got any respect from mine, was to stand up to her in a quiet positive manner and to do it everytime we talked or visited. It took years, but it finally worked, and in the process her negativity, manipulation, guilt trips, etc got fewer and further apart.

Remember, this is YOUR LIFE, not theirs. Your CHOICE, not theirs. If your mother should start on you again, tell her she can go live with him, with your blessing, lol

Will keep you in my prayers...................

Love and hugs,

Ago

I can't convey how much I agree with Laurie, I'd add I wrote in an earlier post I don't need to "run" stuff by my family, nor do I need their approval they are the people that made me "sick" in the first place.

Setting firm boundaries with those I am related to can be difficult, and getting them to see my point of view, impossible, and it's crazy making besides.

Today, the truth of the matter is the only people in my life I feel a need to "report to" are my sponsor, my support group, and anyone else I have chosen to be in my life, and who I have decided are important, the other folks, and this includes my closest living blood relatives get "fine thanks, how are you" because everything I say to them will get used as ammunition against me anyway in some form of manipulation or another.

I found a "need" to "convince" people my xagf was "abusive" and the truth of the matter was A) they already all knew and B) If I were to do it all again (break up with her) I wouldn't even bother to explain why, just "We broke up", kind of like "No" is a complete sentence "Things just didn't work out" is all the explanation most people get from me any more, it and she just aren't worth the time and energy to explain what happened.

I can't even begin to explain what happened without writing a novel and getting upset, so "I broke up with her some time ago, thanks how are you?" is all the energy I am willing to expend on that tired old story. Retelling that story "blow by blow" just brings up all those feelings again and again, and at some point it just stopped being helpful to me to relive all that painful crap.

I don't know, the situation may necessitate you telling them he was abusive but I'm beginning to understand for me that keeping the focus on myself is as important during and after the break up as it was during the "relationship".

JustMeInWI

Thank you guys. You are totally right. And all this time I've been allowing my mom to make this into a really big deal. I know my mom is unhealthy (emotionally) and as Ago said, is one of the people contributing to my own sickness, just like my RAH.

She's put me through a LOT the last month since I moved out. Telling me (in person, on the phone, in online chat conversations at work!!!, in big long drawn out emails) how much I'm hurting them by getting this divorce, and how devistated she and my stepdad are [that I didn't come to them for advice and allow them to dictate the situation for me]. I think she is totally projecting her fear of loss-of-control onto my sisters. It's so messed up. The more I look at it, the more it becomes clear to me.

I am really going to do my best to keep it short and sweet. I am hoping and praying that she will not alienate my sisters from me during this time. They mean so much to me...

Pajarito

I am finding the more time goes by, that I really cannot control anyone but myself. You love your sisters- that is clear- but you can't control what your mom says to them, how they react to your news. . . and that may be a hard pill to swallow. In my situation, my family is 100% behind me, and I know I am lucky to have their support. I think a big part of it is in how STBXAH treated them right before he decided we should separate. He was distant and very rude. My MIL and STBXAH's siblings are a different story. I am proceeding as I always have- sending birthday cards, holiday gifts, etc. Basically, I am taking the high road, but they have chosen to reject me. These people mean something to me, and I won't let them just disappear from my life, because I have dd's life to consider too. She needs her grandmother, aunts and uncles in her life. My relationship with MIL is ok, but she is mad at me for "divulging" the dark secrets I hid for so long. To that, I say too bad. She can be angry. I am doing what I have to do in order to protect myself and live a peaceful life.

Which is exactly what you are doing. . . If your sisters don't understand now, they may in time. You may never get your mom and dad on board, so it's something you may have to start trying to accept. For me, it has not been easy- I was raised to be a people pleaser. It is so freeing, however, to finally stand up for myself and let things go! Friends, co-workers, family members may never get it- but then they didn't have to live with STBXAH. I figure I don't have to say anything more than is absolutely necessary. More will be revealed- especially if STBXAH continues to behave the way he does. Like yours, he is verbally and emotionally abusive. That's not something a person can control easily, especially if he is drinking or just "dry."

I like the suggestions Laurie had too- I am learning to say politely, "This is not up for discussion." And it is so empowering to say nothing, to walk away, to say, "I am finished." I used to be the master at engaging and digging my heels right into an argument. There's no argument if you don't engage- right? And the best advice my counselor gave me is this, "Don't analyze, defend or explain." What you do with your life is no one's business but yours. (((Good luck!)))

Ago

Let her marry the guy she likes him so much

One of the things I have found is doing healthy things is VERY threatening to people still "stuck" in "the system" because it "pulls their covers" and they fight very hard to keep the "status quo", it was really bizarre to me until I began to recognize it for what it is.

breaking unhealthy relationship patterns is VERY threatening and comes with severe lashback in my experience.

I just don't allow "sick" people to get that close enough to hurt me any more, and when I did I got "sick" too, and it was my own dear sweet wonderful mother and sister that basically dealt me this last "life blow" that I am still trying to repair the wreckage from, and truthfully will be for years, these people are frickin harmful.

It was so bizarre yesterday dealing with my sister in that thread about "my sister called" and I got so physically nauseous and I realized that had been my "normal" for three years.

F that, happy is good, smiles are good, feeling good on the inside is good, they can have their "systems" I don't want to play any more, those people hurt me, they are harmful, and the interesting thing was the contrast how differently I have felt the last few months as opposed to how I felt after just two phone conversations with my sister.

It's really true, I "opened the door" and she "came through the window" without me even noticing, and mothers can be even better at that, it's like of course she knows how to "push my buttons" she is the one who put them there in the first place.

Take care of yourself and everything will else just falls into place is my experience, and for me "taking care of myself" meant setting strong boundaries and taking distance from my family of origin. It's like the "frog" can't get better while still in the boiling water you know?

Haha I totally just got that as a visual a frog in a pot of boiling water trying to convince you "he's fine, everything is great" it's a bit like listening to an alcoholic standing in front of you with one eye closed swaying back and forth saying "just two...why do you ask?"

MsPINKAcres

prayers for you as you share with your family that you are making decision for a "healthier live for yourself". That your husband is no longer able to the "Best Man" in your relationship and so it is in the best interest of everyone for this to take place."

This past weekend my 5 & 6 yr old grandchildren spent the wkend with me. It was time for me to tell them why their PaPa wasn't with us & why we are at a little rent house instead of the big house. They asked their questions, we discussed PaPa is sick, still loves them, but is just unable to be a part of our lives right now. Maybe someday he will be able to visit them - just not right now. No, He & ReeRee will not live together again. ReeRee has a new life.

Simple, honest & open answers is what the wanted & deserved - as long as they were filled with healthy compassion.

Prayers of strength & courage for you,
Rita

GiveLove

Aside from the fact that it is sickening your mom would like you to stay in an abusive relationship with an alcoholic just to maintain her own vision of the perfect little world......(sorry you're going through this, JustMe...)

In a similar situation long ago, I wrote notes (pre-email!!) to my family members that said, approximately, this:

"I have separated from (X) because I no longer wish to live with a practicing alcoholic and drug user. Nor am I willing to spend any more time in a relationship with someone who abuses me. These abuses have included X, Y, and Z, and I've been deeply unhappy for a long time. I understand that you have only seen the good side of (X), and I know this comes as a shock to you, but I hope you can trust me to do what's best for me. This is a painful time for me and so I'd appreciate your support in this, but if you are not willing to support what I need to do for my own happiness, then I'd ask you to not talk about this at all. If you can't do this, then I cannot be around you right now. This is not open for negotiation and it just hurts too much."

Of course, I couldn't just "let it go" at that point when people still challenged my boundary (I hadn't progressed very far in my own recovery yet) but today I could easily write that, or say it, and let the universe take care of the rest. If Someone puts their own needs before mine -- i.e. is willing to lay me on "his" altar, so things can be "more normal" -- then I truly, truly don't need that Someone in my life.

Life's too short, and I only want people around me who love and support me.

Hugs to you, JustMe, in this tough time.

TakingCharge999

Hi!!

I think you are very strong and brave on taking this step.
When my parents divorced I was 3 and never got closure in the sense of someone telling me along the way "daddy and mommy have some issues that will separate them from now on but they will always love you". This would have helped me a great deal!! So it is really good to talk about this like decent people...

That said you just need to inform your family... of course they will have reactions... just let those reactions be and do not engange on any discussion or talk about it. Tell them your decision is final and that you do not feel the need to justify your decisions as an adult and are sorry you are hurting them, but you are much more sorry to have them not support you leaving an abusive man.

good luck and let us know how it went!!

JustMeInWI

Easier said than done, but I agree - absolutely necessary for my own recovery and future health and growth.

I think one of the hardest parts about this is it is SO life altering. To spend your whole life close with your mom/spouse/etc, only to grow and learn that they are actually what is causing the pain - that they are HARMFUL. It's mind-boggling and scary - creates a whole new feeling of "alone". But I'm willing to be alone and hurt to heal instead of continue with them in my life and continue to be hurt and get sicker.

I think that is an excellent idea. I have been so torn over how to let my family know (I have a large extended family). I'm thinking I could send a letter out to each of those extended family members that have had any involvement in my life/marriage. I'll wait until after the holiday season since I'll be out of state over Christmas anyway. I'm going to copy your letter almost verbatim. Thank you SO much for sharing that GL!!!

I think what boggles my mind more than anything else in all this "family discussion" business is the fact that my mom divorced her first husband (my father) when she had two little kids because he was an alcoholic and drug abuser, and he was verbally abusive... and yet she cannot support me where I'm at?? Especially considering I didn't have any children with my messed up AH first.

I know, I know: "what other people think about me is none of my business" I'm getting better every day learning to apply that. To grow. To be free. To be HEALTHY. To have SERENITY. I think tomorrow will be an excellent turning point for me - no matter HOW the "talk" goes

Thank you all again for all your encouragement and support!

Pajarito

Same here- my MIL raised 4 children- including STBXAH with a physically abusive alcoholic- not their father. She divorced him when I met STBXAH. He was 24. The damage had been done. Still- she is STBXAH's mom, and obviously dealing with some issues herself- denial being one of them. I think on some level she gets what I am dealing with, but not enough to fully support me- and that's ok. I'm trying to listen to my gut- treat her with respect, but don't get caught up in arguing or defending my position. It is a waste of breath.

I believe your sisters will decide for themselves what they want to believe, and it will change over time too. My dd is 11. She knows the bare minimum about what is going on with her dad. I will talk to her about it if she asks, or if his actions warrant a talk. He behaves in a self absorbed way even with her. It's not up to me to give her all the dirt. His actions will tell her what she needs to know, and I will do my best to be here for her when she needs help understanding what is going on.

I like what GL gave you- short and sweet. Time will change things, questions will come up. You can continue to be the good person you are and be there for your sisters when they need you.

And I agree with what you said about your realizations about your mom- it is a lonely feeling to realize your family of origin is a source of a lot of your issues. My mom and dad are in denial about a lot of what happened, but I try to take it with a grain of salt. My goal is to work on myself- not inform them or blame them. It is what it is. It's up to me now to do some hard work, and I am definitely grateful to have the opportunity.

Pajarito

P.S.- I am hoping you feel better after your meeting with your family. You may feel a huge weight has been lifted. It may not go exactly as you hope, but you are continuing to stand up for yourself, and every time you do- if you're like me- you will feel stronger.
((()))

LaTeeDa

For anyone dealing with family of origin issues, I highly recommend Harriet Lerner's books. "The Dance of Anger," "The Dance of Fear," and "The Dance of Intimacy." It is possible to have relationships on your own terms. It doesn't have to be either toxic, or completely non-existant. I'm still working on how to have a relationship with my mother and retain my sanity, but I do know it is possible.

L

Ago

By reaching out to a 12 step program and finding new and healthy people to have in my life I feel less "alone" then I ever have, it is frightening at first, but I actually began to look forward to things like T-Giving and X-mas and spending them with what I consider my "real family" rather then my "relatives"

They say "Love is an action word" and for me today this is true, the thing is, when I was stuck in those "systems" I thought how my mother treated me was love, but the truth of the matter is I didn't learn what "love" was until I learned it from my sponsor, then my sponsees, then my "support group".

In that system I learned what detachment and unconditional love really meant, not that sick manipulation and abuse to "protect" the status quo that I learned from my family.

I have friends in my life that actually Love me, and treat me with love, not people I am related to or sleeping with saying "I love you" and doing horrific, harmful stuff to me. Love IS an action word and has NOTHING to do with the word that comes out of someones mouth in bed or the fact this person gave birth to me, that has as much to do with "Love" as staying in bed on a Sunday morning yelling "oh my God Oh my God" has to do with going to church.

"True Love" is how someone treats me.

Were I in this situation today, I would literally "cut, copy, and paste" Giveloves letter, filling in X, Y, and Z from my own experience and either mail it or read from it, or making copies for my mother and sister's and handing them out when I "met" with them, not allowing ANY deviation so I got sucked into explaining myself and found myself down a road I couldn't get back from.

For me, trying to explain myself to my mother and sister and protect myself and trying to get them to "see" me and my point of view is exactly what made me so sick in the first place.

I didn't know how to set boundaries, and I had placed myself in my mother's "power" so she just "moved" me around like a chess piece, and my sister was able to manipulate the situation by saying "No" so my mother would just move me into the situation to support my sister (and mother) (family business) by giving me more hours and less pay (at one point she doubled my hours and cut my pay in half) and me trying to get my sister to see how her actions were "indirectly harmful" to me, and trying to get my mother to see how her actions were "directly harmful" were what made me so insane.

I don't know how to interact with these people without getting sucked into the family dynamic any more, they are better at manipulation then I am at setting boundaries, as they have had years more practice, so that's why I had to take distance. They literally don't even see that they are manipulative or harmful, I mean my sister saying to me yesterday "Give me your expensive generator and go buy a cheap one for yourself because I need your generator" speaks volumes. They never did "see" me, just what they could "get" from me, and how I could "help" them continue their own sick "system", if they could I wouldn't have even needed to tell them, and the funny thing is that once I was "stuck" in that system I ran right out and found a girlfriend that exactly acted like my mother and my sister at the same time so I could get a "double dose" of poison.

very strange.

Writing this, I can totally see, that for me, "There are no victims, only volunteers" totally applies to this situation, I allowed them to do this to me, I mean they "stole the car but the keys were in it" (me being "the car") but as I said, they are better at getting me to do what they want then I am at "saying No" so that's why I "ran away from home" to literally protect my sanity and "mental health".

After 43 years of trying and 16.5 years of recovery trying I finally ran out of energy, it's not worth it any more....I feel like I should feel bad about it, but the truth is I don't, I feel "free", "better", happier and healthier, I feel liberated, I no longer fear, loathe and despise the Holidays because I know I have to go spend it with "them".

Bernadette

Hello Wisconsin!!!

Good luck this weekend.

I agree with the words of wisdom you've gotten here. Reading on SR is like reading a great novel- one where you are so immersed and you think "I know this! I just haven't ever been able to put it into such perfect words." Like it taps into some deep unconscious knowledge that we all share...

Just on a practical note (I always like to have a plan!) stick to "I" statements, and short and sweet...."I would appreciate your support....I am in a lot of pain with this very difficult but necessary and healthy transition....I ask anyone to walk 24hrs in my shoes before judging my decision....etc etc."

Also do you have somewhere to go maybe an hour after said "discussion?" Somewhere pleasant - hot chocolate? bookstore? holiday window gazing? quiet forest path? Just so you have something peaceful to look forward to for YOU afterwards.

Peace & Courage--
B.

JustMeInWI

Another quick thought. I plan to keep it short and sweet, but is there anything I should say or avoid saying since my 11 and 13 year old sisters will be part of "the talk"? Any scripting or suggestions will help me put together a little 1-2 minute "talk" without necessitating discussion? The thing is, after this "talk" my sisters and I are supposed to be baking cookies for the day (however mom thinks the trauma will be too much and it will ruin our cookie-making plans)...

Bernadette

Well you can lead the way by how you present it -- "I've made an extremely difficult but necessary healthy decision," and then "OK let's bake cookies! I need something cheerful right about now!" What sorts of things are you imagining they will ask or say that is going to make this so devestatingly traumatic??

One thing I was glad I realized early in my 1st year of divorce was - this is not the worst thing that could happen to me and my children. And I shared that with my boys, that yes it is very hard, and sad, but no one died, we have too much fun living to do, mom and dad still love them to pieces and all will be well. And that's how it's turning out.

I mean this is so common - it is not the end of the world - it is a difficult transition - but have they had NO CLUE at all about what your marraige was like?

I would start with Laurie's statement and make it my own. Short sweet and honest.

And if mom freaks out do your best not to engage and remind her you are an adult bearing the weight of a difficult but mature decision that you didn't come to lightly!

Peace-
B

JustMeInWI

Thanks B! Actually, I cannot even imagine anything I or they would say to make this devastatingly traumatic for any of us. It is my MOM that keeps saying/believing it will be traumatic for them. Very, very confusing... for me... and for my sisters.

My mom is not healthy. She has become more and more unhealthy. And I'm sad that my sisters are stuck with her influence like that. My 13 year old sister (who just started public school this year, was homeschooled before that) comes home BAWLING if the school bus driver so much as looks at her the wrong way...

I would really have liked to take my sisters out for dinner at a quiet restaurant, explained this to them (just 'us girls') and had a fun, supportive evening with all of us bonding and loving each other. My mom and stepdad have forbidden it.

Bernadette

I would really have liked to take my sisters out for dinner at a quiet restaurant, explained this to them (just 'us girls') and had a fun, supportive evening with all of us bonding and loving each other.

I would make sure I let my sisters know this! Your way sounds healthier. Way healthier!!!

Have a plan to avoid getting sucked into mom's control.

B.