blue-eyed soul

in the parking lot of our local convenience store (a very small town) for not stopping what i was doing (WORKING (grading papers)) and immediately bringing my husband and his buddies the bottle of crown royal they had requested.

why do i always forget that even a calm, rational voice ("do you hear how you are speaking to me? your whiskey is not more important than my job.") does not work with someone who has been drinking all day? ("you should have stopped what you were doing and done what i asked you when i asked you to do it. i am not f***ing happy.")

he had done a "favor" for me earlier (gone into the city to get my migraine prescription), so now i was apparently supposed to return said favor.

i should have known this "honeymoon" period of things going well was not going to last. why do i kid myself?

ToughChoices

I forget, too. I still occasionally expect rational behavior from an irrational person.

But today I'm much better at remembering that what he says in drunken anger does not have a footing in truth. I am not to blame for his problems.

That was a tough one to learn!

How are you doing?
I get really shaken up when someone yells at me.

-TC

ellima01

many- many times I was the liquor store mule- If I didn't, I caught you know what- those days are gone- if he wants to drink,fine- can't stop that, but I will never but whiskey for him again- he knows better than to even ask now. I also told him if he's drunk and I see him get in the car- I will call the police. It is the only boundary I have stuck to- and he doesn't cross me on it.
ellima01

blue-eyed soul

well, and here's the thing. i don't buy liquor for him, and i thought i had made it clear to the buddy he put on the phone (that's a neat trick, eh?), that they were on their own. i'm sure he thought he could say, i'll just call the little woman, and she'll step and fetchit for us, and i evidently "embarrassed" him in front of his friends, so screaming at me in public (he doesn't get yet that that just makes him look bad, not me!) was my "punishment/embarrassment" for not doing what he told me.

and i am a damned fool for getting complacent in those in-between moments when things seem to be going well for us. (we all do that, though, don't we?) jeez, i hate this jekyll and hyde bullshite.

blue-eyed soul

grading papers!

and coming here for support and to figure out if i could have handled this any differently. the only way this would have had a "happy" outcome is if i had dropped what i was doing and gone to get the blinkin' whiskey, but on principle i didn't think i was supposed to do that.

prodigal

We all forget. They blind side us at times; particularly, when we least expect it. It's a live and learn situation. Next time, he starts screaming for you to get his booze, tell him to get it himself. Regardless of whether or not he feels you "owe" him a favor.

I listened to my AH for so long that I realized I went through phases towards regaining my balance. At first, I was shocked by what he said to me. Then I tried to defend myself. Why? Because I must have believed, to some degree, what he was saying to be true. Then I would tell anyone who would listen all the terrible things he said to me. I needed validation from as many people as possible that AH was, indeed, nuts.

Then I went on to trying to figure him out all the time. Why did he contradict himself? What did he really mean? Why did he say that? I finally drove myself crazy trying to make sense of nonsense.

I suppose I've received my diploma in "alkie-speak and behavior" now. I just blow off what he says. He rarely bothers me anymore. Once in awhile, he can still launch a sneak attack and it will get me royally p.o.'d. But that's extremely rare.

We all kid ourselves from time to time. We occasionally expect an addict to behave rationally and with consideration. I tossed those theories out the window a long time ago. Once I quit expecting rational, considerate, or vaguely sane behavior out of AH, I was able to go about my business and leave him to his.

blue-eyed soul

prodigal, did i just do that here?! because i have, certainly, exhibited those exact same behaviors in the past and thought i was beyond that behavior! i think i thought i needed to vent and to find out what to do in this truly lose/lose situation (go buy the booze and essentially break a boundary, or don't go/go "too late" and get yelled at).

aw, criminey. what a day.

Freedom1990

I am so glad I finally decided that I deserved better than that and moved on with my life.

I kept setting my bar of standards so low with my EXAH that no one could have done the limbo under that one!

Thank God today my life is full, I am in college finally completing my degree, and I do NOT have an alcoholic spouse/boyfriend/signficant other in my life.

blue-eyed soul

so how does this work?

if i did go buy the booze, i'd be a) enabling, b) breaking a boundary, c) having to stop my work to do something i didn't want to do because of a) and b).

if i didn't go buy it, then i'm the "bad" person for not doing him a "favor" in front of his buddies, and i get yelled at, and i know i'm supposed to detach and not engage, but i'm still getting yelled at, which is irrational and hurtful, so ...

what the heck am i supposed to do? just take the yelling and "detach" from it, not try to reason or provide a rationale, and recognize that it's a product of an irrational mind, and go back to working?

that's the hardest part, i think, because hurtful words do hurt, no matter how much my rational mind says they are irrational and formed by alcoholic lips.

catlovermi

Time for an executive decision about a boundary.

"If you yell at me/act disrespectfully/do hurtful things, then I will _________."

Sounds to me like you haven't defined this boundary yet.

When I'm confused, it's often because I have no clear boundary in my mind, and am negotiating with MYSELF about it. Until I'm clear with MYSELF about my boundary, then I'm bound to be confused about someone else's behavior that infringes in an area where I SHOULD have a boundary defined.

CLMI

GiveLove

I'm unsure what you're getting out of a relationship where your partner feels this kind of treatment of you is okay? Shouting at you like a dog in front of strangers, treating you like dirt, in ADDITION to being an active alcoholic? What are your boundaries? What are you willing to do to enforce them, and protect yourself from this kind of abuse?

If you are unwilling to change anything about your relationship, if you're content with this kind of relationship, then yes, I'd say you'd better start going to a lot of Al-Anon meetings, because detachment will be something you'll need to get good at. That, and walking away like he's not even there. YOU CANNOT CHANGE HIS CHOICES WITH LOGIC AND REASON. It never, ever, ever works.

Wishing you luck
GL

Bernadette

what the heck am i supposed to do? just take the yelling and "detach" from it, not try to reason or provide a rationale, and recognize that it's a product of an irrational mind, and go back to working?

YES!

Except if you have been working on detachment you don't actually "take" the yelling. You have a plan - the first shouted word out of his mouth and you walk away, leave the room, leave the house, leave the convenience store parking lot, whatever. You pack up your papers and go to the library or a friend's or your office. You protect yourself. Being yelled at hurts and is stressful and is a completely useless way for someone to communicate with me. It takes effort and discipline and a calm mind - not easy - but with practice you can do what is healthy for YOU.

Also you're never the "bad" person for not buying him liquor, or not listening to him screaming or ranting or quacking. Never. Are you a good, decent person? Only you can answer that and NOBODY can take that away from you - though an aggressive active alcoholic may try to chip away at it with their bullying, twisted logic, and mean words.

You know what's real and what's true. Act accordingly.
Peace-
B.

Barbara52

What is it you find acceptable in any scenario around these parameters? What is you you are getting out of abusive behavior that makes you decide to stay in it?

denny57

It takes practice, but yes. What would his reaction be if that happened? I'm only concerned if he would get physical. Otherwise, change happens when one person changes. Play it all the way through. If you did the above, would it mean the silent treatment? If so, are you ready to live with that?

Contrary action can be difficult to do and it felt very awkward at first. It works.

I think in the end it was deciding if I was willing to be miserable to keep the status quo. I wasn't.

((( )))

laurie6781

And because he screamed at you in public and made an Azz of himself you are wondering what you did wrong?

Nothing, except why are you still with him? Why are you allowing him to treat you this way? Why did you not just hang up the phone?

I know this is hard, many of us here know this is hard, but you do not have to take that or any kind of ABUSE and yes that is ABUSE.

Ignore the yelling, don't buy the booze, set your boundaries and if they are broken than leave or have him leave with escort of police. His behavior is NOT ACCEPTABE to you or to anyone else except his 'drinkin buddies.'

Yes, you are dealing with an irrational mind. You are dealing with a drunk. NOTHING you do or did will be right. Instead DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU to give you some peace.

Please try some Alanon for you. You are worth way more than the treatment you are receiving.

J M H O

Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing, we do care very much.

Love and hugs,

Reminder

Put some space between you and what he says. It's not him talking.

The words hurt and will always hurt. However, if you put space around your pain, you will have some insulation from the hurtful words. Right now, you are standing in the freezing cold wind without a jacket on. Make peace with the moment because that is all we have in life. You are thinking about the past and wondering what you will do in the future, but you can't even do that except in the present moment. While you are living in the drama of the past, you are absent from the present, and the present moment is all you have in life. Cherish it and accept it. Today is not a good or a bad day. It's just another day in the life. It is what it is.

I know that you probably wish that you were somewhere else other than where you are. I don't think most people would not want to be in the relationship that you are in now, but it is where you are now. Unless you can accept where you are now, how will you ever know where you are going? When the future becomes the present, you may decide to leave, but you will leave in peace. What is the alternative? Live in the drama of the past and be absent from the present?

Peace.

blue-eyed soul

i guess what i always come back to, though, is that AH is not the person who screamed at me today (and it's not like this happens all the time; it's just that evil twin skippy appears at random intervals!), but AH under the influence of alcohol is. aren't i supposed to separate the two?

to the folks who say, why don't you leave and how can you take this abuse, i certainly see that getting yelled at is a form of abuse. but if the person yelling is under the influence of alcohol, then aren't we supposed to differentiate the two? in milam's [U]under the influence[U], he refers to this very problem:

"myth: when the alcoholic is drinking, he reveals his true personality.
reality: alcohol's effect on the brain causes severe psychological and emotional distortions of the normal personality. sobriety reveals the alcoholic's true personality" (13).

so aren't i then supposed to just detach from this yelling scenario? i guess my original question is just what do you do if you find yourself in one of these "damned if you do/damned if you don't" scenarios? just don't put yourself there to begin with? that's a lot easier said than done, especially when "skippy" hasn't revealed himself for a while and i wasn't expecting this result.

this is all very confusing! i've read so much and gotten so many mixed messages!

ps i did just relax and watch a movie, and i'm not in the least worried about what AH is doing tonight, even though he hasn't called and i'm reasonably certain he won't come home. now that's what i'm supposed to do, right? it's just when i find myself in situations like the one described above that i get confused!

thanks to all for helping me to wade through this.

laurie6781

It's not a matter of revealing the alcoholics true personality, it's the matter of that ALCOHOLISM IS PROGRESSIVE and it only gets worse never better as long as the individual continue to practice their disease.

Yes, verbal abuse can and in many cases does escalate to physical abuse. Now is the time you need to start taking care of and looking out for you.

You say:

add YET to that. The person he was is slowly being buried by Alcohol.

Another fact...................................more alcoholics stay drunk than get sober, so again.....................................how far down are you going to let him drag you? How far do his actions have to go before you start questioning yourself? etc

I am not saying these things to be mean, I am saying them to get you to wake up and look HONESTLY at your situation. I have seen too many like you end up getting really hurt bad, both emotionally and physically.

Please watch out for you.

Love and hugs,

blue-eyed soul

laurie, i know you're looking out for me, and i appreciate your candor! my eyes are open pretty wide to the realities of my marriage; i just found myself in this "wtf" situation today (and i reason and argue and research my way through life; it's even part of my career!) and wanted to reach out here.

i think one of the hardest things about being married to an alcoholic is that "jekyll/hyde" dual personality thing i mentioned earlier. when AH is sober, i know what he will be like. when he is not, i never know which person to expect, and that's what sidelined me today.

hugs and thanks all around.

denny57

No, I don't think it's about separating the two. I can accept that the words are not to be taken personally because they are spoken by someone under the influence, but the person who decided to drink and the person spewing ugly words at me are one and the same.

If the person was standing there throwing eggs at me, I wouldn't take that, whether they were drunk or not.

No one gets to treat another human being as a verbal punching bag, drunk or not.