Is he an alcoholic?
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Is he an alcoholic?
My gut tells me my husband is an alcoholic. For the past year we have had some very bad "cycles" related to drinking. He claims he's just made some bad choices and possibly "abused alcohol" on occasion, but by no means is he an alcoholic. Here's what I have to go on:
1. I believe he does have periods of time when he maintains sobriety.
2. When he is in a "bad patch" I have monitored his consumption and have found times when he has consumed minimally 1.75 liters of vodka in a 3-7 day period of time.
3. He lies constantly about his drinking, saying he has to because I'm so controlling.
4. He says that I'm the one who has the perception problem as I grew up in a fairly "dry" household (mom never drank, dad does socially) not like his European family who view alcohol much differently. They don't believe me that there is a problem (they actually are encouraging him to divorce me as he complains constantly about how miserable life is with me)
5. I have found alcohol hidden in his car.
6. Our marriage counselor has diagnosed him as an alcoholic. He claims she's unqualified and that his therapist believes she's not well educated and incorrect in her findings.
7. He went to rehab when I threatened to leave him and claims they told him he has a marital problem, not an alcohol problem.
8. He isn't a falling down drunk type of person, in fact he's highly function. As such, not many people believe me that there is a problem. I however can almost always tell when he's been drinking a lot as he has this very slow, mean stare and can't take his eyes off of me very easily.
9. A few weeks ago I caught him drinking in the morning when I was out with my kids running errands. He was supposed to watch them when I returned at noon. Instead, I found that he was sloppy drunk then and I took the kids back out of the house rather than deal with him in such a state. He claims this was an isolated incident and doesn't mean he has a problem.
So bottom line, how do I know if I'm overreacting or not. I have told him I think at this point I want to separate. I can't keep going on with this roller coaster of him saying he'll cut back or quit for a period of time, then starts drinking beer, goes back to hard liquor, and then is drinking huge amounts (or at least what I perceive as huge amounts). This all saddens me immensely, especially as he's such a wonderful man when sober. He says he's possibly willing to stop drinking for awhile, but believes as he is not an alcoholic, but at most someone who has occasionally abused alcohol, he should at some point be able to drink again. Any thoughts?
1. I believe he does have periods of time when he maintains sobriety.
2. When he is in a "bad patch" I have monitored his consumption and have found times when he has consumed minimally 1.75 liters of vodka in a 3-7 day period of time.
3. He lies constantly about his drinking, saying he has to because I'm so controlling.
4. He says that I'm the one who has the perception problem as I grew up in a fairly "dry" household (mom never drank, dad does socially) not like his European family who view alcohol much differently. They don't believe me that there is a problem (they actually are encouraging him to divorce me as he complains constantly about how miserable life is with me)
5. I have found alcohol hidden in his car.
6. Our marriage counselor has diagnosed him as an alcoholic. He claims she's unqualified and that his therapist believes she's not well educated and incorrect in her findings.
7. He went to rehab when I threatened to leave him and claims they told him he has a marital problem, not an alcohol problem.
8. He isn't a falling down drunk type of person, in fact he's highly function. As such, not many people believe me that there is a problem. I however can almost always tell when he's been drinking a lot as he has this very slow, mean stare and can't take his eyes off of me very easily.
9. A few weeks ago I caught him drinking in the morning when I was out with my kids running errands. He was supposed to watch them when I returned at noon. Instead, I found that he was sloppy drunk then and I took the kids back out of the house rather than deal with him in such a state. He claims this was an isolated incident and doesn't mean he has a problem.
So bottom line, how do I know if I'm overreacting or not. I have told him I think at this point I want to separate. I can't keep going on with this roller coaster of him saying he'll cut back or quit for a period of time, then starts drinking beer, goes back to hard liquor, and then is drinking huge amounts (or at least what I perceive as huge amounts). This all saddens me immensely, especially as he's such a wonderful man when sober. He says he's possibly willing to stop drinking for awhile, but believes as he is not an alcoholic, but at most someone who has occasionally abused alcohol, he should at some point be able to drink again. Any thoughts?
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Welcome to SR, questionsofmine! Glad you found us.
Life became much clearer when I stopped searching for a definitive label for my alcoholic loved one, and instead said, "Is his current relationship with alcohol acceptable to me?" And if not, what was I prepared to do about it? What boundaries was I willing to set?
I have learned a lot by reading around on this forum, reading the "Sticky" posts at the top of the forum's first page, and by attending Al-Anon meetings.
It became less and less important for me to label, and more important to focus on myself and my own needs & goals for my life. Alcohol abuse is often a progressive condition, and in my case it got worse and worse. Being drunk when he is watching the kids is dangerous. Being lied to is disrespectful and cowardly. Denial and belittlement of your unhappiness and legitimate concerns is hurtful. If your husband's drinking is causing misery in your marriage, it may be time to work on setting some boundaries for what you will and won't accept for yourself....regardless of what you call it.
Bear in mind that most of our alcoholic loved ones are wonderful when they're sober. They're just sober less and less, until the man you loved is nowhere to be found. It may be best to deal with what IS NOW, rather than what WAS or what MIGHT BE.
Stick around and keep posting - there is a wealth of experience and support here.
Life became much clearer when I stopped searching for a definitive label for my alcoholic loved one, and instead said, "Is his current relationship with alcohol acceptable to me?" And if not, what was I prepared to do about it? What boundaries was I willing to set?
I have learned a lot by reading around on this forum, reading the "Sticky" posts at the top of the forum's first page, and by attending Al-Anon meetings.
It became less and less important for me to label, and more important to focus on myself and my own needs & goals for my life. Alcohol abuse is often a progressive condition, and in my case it got worse and worse. Being drunk when he is watching the kids is dangerous. Being lied to is disrespectful and cowardly. Denial and belittlement of your unhappiness and legitimate concerns is hurtful. If your husband's drinking is causing misery in your marriage, it may be time to work on setting some boundaries for what you will and won't accept for yourself....regardless of what you call it.
Bear in mind that most of our alcoholic loved ones are wonderful when they're sober. They're just sober less and less, until the man you loved is nowhere to be found. It may be best to deal with what IS NOW, rather than what WAS or what MIGHT BE.
Stick around and keep posting - there is a wealth of experience and support here.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
I am a recovering alcoholic. 12 weeks.
I was a "highly functioning" alcoholic, hopefully I will be highly functioning in recovery.
I lied to my wife about my drinking. I minimized my drinking to my wife and laughed at her when she told me I should stop. I hid vodka in my car, garage, closet, wherever. In the last year or two, I would drink on some mornings. I would occasionally drink too much when home with the kids, thankfully they were older when I drank alot.
I went to rehab. They told me that marital problems were often the result of one or both of the spouses drinking too much. I cannot imagine a rehab, if they were given the same picture you just painted, would suggest that his problem was not his drinking.
If you are concerned that he may have a drinking problem, he just might. But nobody can tell him he is an alcoholic. That comes from within him.
I'd give my right arm if I would have listened to my wife about my drinking and pill problem when she talked to me those many times... so much pain and trouble in my life could have been avoided. But I'm recovering now and I'm not dead, still have my job, home and family. It could have been worse.
You'll get lot's of good advice from spouses of alcoholics here.
Mark
I was a "highly functioning" alcoholic, hopefully I will be highly functioning in recovery.
I lied to my wife about my drinking. I minimized my drinking to my wife and laughed at her when she told me I should stop. I hid vodka in my car, garage, closet, wherever. In the last year or two, I would drink on some mornings. I would occasionally drink too much when home with the kids, thankfully they were older when I drank alot.
I went to rehab. They told me that marital problems were often the result of one or both of the spouses drinking too much. I cannot imagine a rehab, if they were given the same picture you just painted, would suggest that his problem was not his drinking.
If you are concerned that he may have a drinking problem, he just might. But nobody can tell him he is an alcoholic. That comes from within him.
I'd give my right arm if I would have listened to my wife about my drinking and pill problem when she talked to me those many times... so much pain and trouble in my life could have been avoided. But I'm recovering now and I'm not dead, still have my job, home and family. It could have been worse.
You'll get lot's of good advice from spouses of alcoholics here.
Mark
Yield beautiful changes
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: A home filled with love
Posts: 1,698
Welcome to the forum! I'm glad that you're here, questionsofmine!
Are you generally one to make sweeping, life-changing accusations on a whim?
I didn't think so.
You sound like a pretty level-headed woman to me, and, from the content of your post, it certainly seems as though there is a problem with alcohol in your home.
What you (or anyone else) chooses to call that problem is somewhat irrelevant.
Bottom line is: If his drinking is a problem for you, then it is a problem. Period.
If his drinking isn't yet a problem for him, then he may be quite a distance from sobriety.
A separation may very well help you sort out what you want and what he is willing/able to give.
Keep posting, keeping asking, keep reading.
We're here to help!
-TC
Originally Posted by questionsofmine 
So bottom line, how do I know if I'm overreacting or not.
I didn't think so.
You sound like a pretty level-headed woman to me, and, from the content of your post, it certainly seems as though there is a problem with alcohol in your home.
What you (or anyone else) chooses to call that problem is somewhat irrelevant.
Bottom line is: If his drinking is a problem for you, then it is a problem. Period.
If his drinking isn't yet a problem for him, then he may be quite a distance from sobriety.
A separation may very well help you sort out what you want and what he is willing/able to give.
Keep posting, keeping asking, keep reading.
We're here to help!
-TC
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 167
The problem with alcohol abuse is that it is such a slow progression from the first time used, social use, private use, regular use, daily use. Depending on when the person starts they can be middle aged before those close to them realise and elderly by the time others can work it out.
My husband had his first drink at 13. I met him when he was 30 and already a heavy drinker. But I didn't guess until he physically abused me while I was pregnant. I had lots of warning. He had been verbally abusive for most of our relationship, I didn't hear anything wrong with it because I had been raised in a household where verbal and emotional abuse was common. I hadn't been raised in an a physically violent household, so that event really impacted on me and I had to admit that something was very wrong.
I sought professional help. Also I am now going to Al-Anon. The sick thing is that had he not overstepped the line into physical violence, I would still be 'happy' being miserable in that marriage.
Please listen to your gut feelings, not what he is saying. He is not a rational, sane man.
My husband had his first drink at 13. I met him when he was 30 and already a heavy drinker. But I didn't guess until he physically abused me while I was pregnant. I had lots of warning. He had been verbally abusive for most of our relationship, I didn't hear anything wrong with it because I had been raised in a household where verbal and emotional abuse was common. I hadn't been raised in an a physically violent household, so that event really impacted on me and I had to admit that something was very wrong.
I sought professional help. Also I am now going to Al-Anon. The sick thing is that had he not overstepped the line into physical violence, I would still be 'happy' being miserable in that marriage.
Please listen to your gut feelings, not what he is saying. He is not a rational, sane man.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: where the streets have no name
Posts: 1,078
an experienced counselor or addictionologist is certainly qualified to tell someone they are an alcoholic. There even exists specific criteria for such DSM IV.
The question is will the alcoholic listen or even care if a professional diagnoses them with alcoholism. Chances are they will deny, rationalize, reject, resent, etc etc.
The question is will the alcoholic listen or even care if a professional diagnoses them with alcoholism. Chances are they will deny, rationalize, reject, resent, etc etc.
Retired Pro Drunk
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 901
1. Irrelevant.
2. Warning sign.
3. Warning sign.
4. Irrelevant.
5. Warning sign.
6. I believe the only folks qualified to diagnose alcoholics are those who are trained specifically in dealing with that disease.
7. I don't buy that for a moment.
8. Irrelevant.
9. Warning sign.
The above is all my opinion. But the way I see it, there's several warning signs here. And I don't see any evidence to the contrary.
2. Warning sign.
3. Warning sign.
4. Irrelevant.
5. Warning sign.
6. I believe the only folks qualified to diagnose alcoholics are those who are trained specifically in dealing with that disease.
7. I don't buy that for a moment.
8. Irrelevant.
9. Warning sign.
The above is all my opinion. But the way I see it, there's several warning signs here. And I don't see any evidence to the contrary.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5
Thank you all for your replies. It is really helpful to hear all of the comments. Although I have pretty much decided what I think I want to do, i.e. separate, there is nonetheless still a part that questions whether I'm being unreasonable. I keep hearing constantly from him and his family that my perceptions are wrong, not his behavior. I am not an expert in alcoholism, although I am relying on our marriage counselor's diagnosis. My husband, as I indicated before, claims his individual counselor has stated that our marriage counselor's diagnosis is incorrect and she is unqualified (my husband at one point gave our marriage counselor permission to talk about her diagnosis of alcoholism with my husband's individual counselor). I looked up her qualifications and she is a LCPC with an M.A. in clinical counseling psychology and substance abuse. I would think she would be qualified to make a determination, but maybe I'm missing something here? Also, I should state that at one point (our first major blow-up regarding my discovery of his extreme alcohol use) he saw his doctor and she ran some blood tests. They came back as showing evidence of alcohol abuse due to some very elevated liver enzymes. On one other occasion he agreed to get his blood levels tested again. They were much lower and in a normal range, although as we are both aware from talking with his doctor, the levels can return to a normal level if one abstains for approximately 1-2 weeks. Not surprisingly, my husband did stall in getting the tests for almost two weeks. Bottom line, I understand that one must decided what one can tolerate in terms of the addictive behaviors of another, but I'm struggling with whether I'm being ridiculous or not in MY expectations. I know what my gut is telling, i.e. there is definitely a problem, but its hard to stick with that when my husband, his family, and his friends are telling me I'm totally blowing things out of proportion. Does that make sense? Thank you in advance for any insight you can provide.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by questionsofmine
So bottom line, how do I know if I'm overreacting or not. I have told him I think at this point I want to separate. I can't keep going on with this roller coaster of him saying he'll cut back or quit for a period of time, then starts drinking beer, goes back to hard liquor, and then is drinking huge amounts (or at least what I perceive as huge amounts). This all saddens me immensely, especially as he's such a wonderful man when sober. He says he's possibly willing to stop drinking for awhile, but believes as he is not an alcoholic, but at most someone who has occasionally abused alcohol, he should at some point be able to drink again. Any thoughts?
Does it really matter if he meets the clinical definition of being an alcoholic? I suspect not. So what really does matter at the present moment? You may talk about the past and what you may do in the future, but none of that has anything to do with the present moment. We live in the drama of the past and wish and hope for a better future, while the present, which is all we really have in life, is forgotten. So I ask you, what really does matter at the present moment? Our lights are on, but we're not home.
Peace.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Hi
Hope you don't mind replies from an AH as well as SO's.
Does it really matter what letters come after somebody's name? Focus on what your heart and "gut" is telling you.
There is a problem in your life, because you say there is. That problem, from what I've read in your posts, is alcohol. If it is a problem for you, then it is a problem. No matter what HIS family and friends say and no matter what kind of higher education someone has.
You are his wife.
Mark
Hope you don't mind replies from an AH as well as SO's.
Does it really matter what letters come after somebody's name? Focus on what your heart and "gut" is telling you.
There is a problem in your life, because you say there is. That problem, from what I've read in your posts, is alcohol. If it is a problem for you, then it is a problem. No matter what HIS family and friends say and no matter what kind of higher education someone has.
You are his wife.
Mark
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5
I should clarify that it is our marriage counselor that has the experience listed and is the one who has diagnosed him as an alcoholic. My husband claims that his counselor disagrees and thinks our marital counselor is unqualified. I suspect that my husband has either lied to me about this or has not been forthright with his own counselor regarding the extent of alcohol use.
My concern about the label is in part due to custody and visitation issues regarding my daughters. I don't want to keep him from his children, but I would like to ensure someone else is with him when he sees them. My theory is that if he would lie and drink when he's supposed to be watching them now, why would he stop just because a court has told him he can't drink when they are under his care? I don't want to wait for something to happen to one of my children, especially as my youngest is only one, before my kids are adequately protected. I'm possibly willing to stay in a bad situation if it prevent my children from being under his care unsupervised. As things stand right now, I don't ever leave him alone with them or let him drive the kids. I realize that living in a household with someone actively abusing alcohol can negatively affect my children, but at least currently I have some control over his irresponsible parenting.
My concern about the label is in part due to custody and visitation issues regarding my daughters. I don't want to keep him from his children, but I would like to ensure someone else is with him when he sees them. My theory is that if he would lie and drink when he's supposed to be watching them now, why would he stop just because a court has told him he can't drink when they are under his care? I don't want to wait for something to happen to one of my children, especially as my youngest is only one, before my kids are adequately protected. I'm possibly willing to stay in a bad situation if it prevent my children from being under his care unsupervised. As things stand right now, I don't ever leave him alone with them or let him drive the kids. I realize that living in a household with someone actively abusing alcohol can negatively affect my children, but at least currently I have some control over his irresponsible parenting.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
I still have my job. I will keep my job if I stay in recovery. I consider myself fortunate.
I will have to demonstrate my ongoing recovery for 3-5 years with monitoring, meetings, counseling. It is a PITA. But I get to keep working in the only job I know and love. It is worth it to me.
If you are OK with him seeing your (plural) children as long as he is in recovery, I can't see that not happening. If he wants to be a part of your lives, he can stay in recovery. Easier said than done, I know, believe me I know...
I feel that the intervention that had to happen to get me into recovery saved my life and family, but it means having that diagnosis of alcohol dependence. That diagnosis is official, especially after my rehab stay. It means that I will always have to check that box -"have you ever had a problem with..."
I have a lot more work to go to gain acceptance and letting go of a lot of shame. But I will, hopefully, replace that shame with integrity. I will have to earn that trust back. It is as it should be.
Do what's right. It will work out as it is supposed to be.
I will have to demonstrate my ongoing recovery for 3-5 years with monitoring, meetings, counseling. It is a PITA. But I get to keep working in the only job I know and love. It is worth it to me.
If you are OK with him seeing your (plural) children as long as he is in recovery, I can't see that not happening. If he wants to be a part of your lives, he can stay in recovery. Easier said than done, I know, believe me I know...
I feel that the intervention that had to happen to get me into recovery saved my life and family, but it means having that diagnosis of alcohol dependence. That diagnosis is official, especially after my rehab stay. It means that I will always have to check that box -"have you ever had a problem with..."
I have a lot more work to go to gain acceptance and letting go of a lot of shame. But I will, hopefully, replace that shame with integrity. I will have to earn that trust back. It is as it should be.
Do what's right. It will work out as it is supposed to be.
Yield beautiful changes
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: A home filled with love
Posts: 1,698
A lawyer was very helpful in giving me advice regarding my separation and the management of child custody.
If your children are unable to be cared for due to his drinking, then I suggest that you proceed "as if" he is an alcoholic. Regardless of what he says.
My husband self-identified as alcoholic for a time, then decided that he wasn't, then decided that he was, etc....
All that time he was drinking to the point of physical illness, driving under the influence, missing work and other appointments due to alcohol, and unable to consistently remain sober around our (at the time) 3 year-old son.
Something had to be done.
For my sanity and my child's safety.
fwiw - I was told that my husband's rehab treatment and relapse was very strong evidence in support of my claim for sole custody. Whatever he wants to say about his "alcoholism", he checked himself in to a rehab and then decided to drink again.
Check with your lawyer.
Hugs to you today.
-TC
If your children are unable to be cared for due to his drinking, then I suggest that you proceed "as if" he is an alcoholic. Regardless of what he says.
My husband self-identified as alcoholic for a time, then decided that he wasn't, then decided that he was, etc....
All that time he was drinking to the point of physical illness, driving under the influence, missing work and other appointments due to alcohol, and unable to consistently remain sober around our (at the time) 3 year-old son.
Something had to be done.
For my sanity and my child's safety.
fwiw - I was told that my husband's rehab treatment and relapse was very strong evidence in support of my claim for sole custody. Whatever he wants to say about his "alcoholism", he checked himself in to a rehab and then decided to drink again.
Check with your lawyer.
Hugs to you today.
-TC
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 149
alcoholism is a disease of denial. so dont expect him to be the first to admit he has a serious problem. take care of you im sorry that you are going through this. im sending hugs and positive thoughts your way!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
I don't want to wait for something to happen to one of my children, especially as my youngest is only one, before my kids are adequately protected. I'm possibly willing to stay in a bad situation if it prevent my children from being under his care unsupervised.
Something is happening to your children- every day- living in an alcoholic household. Any kid over the age of 4 will quite naturally be picking up on that alcoholic codie dynamic that exists in alcoholic families. And if you stay together long enough your kids might just get, courtesy of this "family disease" a good strong dose of shame, lying, fear of the unpredictable alcoholic parent, resentment of the always distracted codie parent, magical thinking, and denial, maybe some rage, about what is really going on.
I understand your fears about unsupervised visitation- but find out what your actual rights and what the possibilities are before you decide to stay in the marriage to "protect" the children. And start documenting documenting documenting! Keep a dated journal. Just the facts.
There's no way for it all to go easily - if only there was - but whatever fight you have to fight to REALLY protect your children (both their physical and mental health) is worth it!
Peace-
B.
Something is happening to your children- every day- living in an alcoholic household. Any kid over the age of 4 will quite naturally be picking up on that alcoholic codie dynamic that exists in alcoholic families. And if you stay together long enough your kids might just get, courtesy of this "family disease" a good strong dose of shame, lying, fear of the unpredictable alcoholic parent, resentment of the always distracted codie parent, magical thinking, and denial, maybe some rage, about what is really going on.
I understand your fears about unsupervised visitation- but find out what your actual rights and what the possibilities are before you decide to stay in the marriage to "protect" the children. And start documenting documenting documenting! Keep a dated journal. Just the facts.
There's no way for it all to go easily - if only there was - but whatever fight you have to fight to REALLY protect your children (both their physical and mental health) is worth it!
Peace-
B.
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