denny57

This is where I had to do some difficult work. I learned I don't have to stop caring and I haven't. It's what I do with the caring that matters. I would rather die than lose my empathy.

It isn't black and white, it's shades of gray and they are beautiful.

bluejupiter

He has been on meds before and they were affective - according to his mom. He says he took them to comply with the system but as soon as he didn't have to take them, he stopped. When he came out of jail in November he had just started zyprexa, and took them for a week and he never got more because he wouldn't keep his psych appointments. He later said that the medicated ian wasn't the real ian, and he didn't want to be a numb version of himself. There's so much more than just popping a pill to manage bipolar and he just wont do it - so he is out there picking things up off the street and saying they're magical. I'm blown away by how sick he is. His mom wrote me and said he got into a fight Saturday morning and got sucker punched and his front tooth is jammed back and crooked. He will lose that tooth if he doesn't take care of it - and he wont. Its such a shame - he is such a good looking guy and he is destroying himself in every way.

steve11694

we all know too well how tragic it is to see a loved one deteriorate.

him getting arrested and given a prison sentence may be the best thing as they will provide detox and treatment and he will be unable to use. sometimes according to recovered alc's this is what it takes.

perhaps letting the police know where is is the kindest thing you could do

Kimmieh

He sounds seriously psychotic. I agree with Steve that telling the police where he is might be a good compromise. He gets off the street and you don't have to get involved any further.

equinessa

Zyprxa is an anti-psychotic. If he thinks things on the street are magical he is psychotic or delusional. He needs the professional help of a psychiatrist and a mental health team. It's called duty of care. If it was my family member I would be locating him and finding a doctor to schedule him to a mental health facility. This isn't him choosing to be this way.

equinessa

Hate to tell you this guys but you can't just tell the cops to arrest somebody and send them to jail. People with a mental illness have rights like the rest of us. If he is a danger to himself, which includes being exposed to the elements, and the risk to his person whilst living on the street (for example his getting bashed and losing his tooth) that constitutes risk......and he can be detained involuntarily until he is assessed by a psychiatrist. The best thing about the presence of a family member is that this procedure is scary to anybody, add a big dose of psychosis to that and things can become volatile. A familiar face can often diffuse the situation and convince the person to accept voluntary admission. In Aust the law states that detention should be conducted "in the least restrictive manner".

Silverberry1331

Hi E! I believe that Jupiter mentioned that he blew a court date and now has a warrant. If this is the case, then the police have a legal reason to pick him up. I understand your feelings regarding mental illness and ensuring rights and dignity. Yet, I am inclined to humbly disagree with a familiar face diffusing the situation and convincing the person to accept voluntary admission, especially regarding addiction tempered with mental illness. In my humble opinion, we cannot control the situation. I could not control my husband. Nothing I did convinced him to accept voluntary admission. His suicide attempt and behavior did not change upon seeing me. I may be wrong but J's A sounds like when he is not ingesting chemicals then he has a high level of cognition--re: recovery, admitting to a problem, etc. I agree that there are mentally ill people out there, who are unable to make decisions on their own and require a caregiver in the form of a doctor, etc. However, for ME, I allowed myself to use my husband's mental illness to justify my interference. I rationalized that he needed me to step in. More times often than not, a mentally ill person is more capable then we realize and we seek to impose what we think is best...this is part of our illness of codependence.

JMHO...hugs.:ghug3

bluejupiter

I don't even know where he is. I could call his cell phone and he might tell me, but I can't take off work to chase him around. I'm This close to losing my job because of this whole situation, and I simply can't allow that to happen. He has refused help in the past, he tells me and his parents that he can take care of himself. That tooth is going to be causing him a lot of pain soon, and I suspect being the addict he is, he will seek treatment to get his hands on some percocets. I waver between needing to save him and just not being able to deal. He's delusional for sure, and probably psychotic, but hopefully he is in Boulder near his parents. They needless to say love him dearly, despite his treatment of them, and they have a great understanding of his mental illness. They haven't written him off, and unfortunately I feel he is more their responsibility than mine.

Freedom1990

I would say being precariously close to losing your job warrants letting go and letting God have the whole situation. :ghug :ghug

Barbara52

As difficult as it is to let go, I think you are right to do so. You have to take care of yourself and have no reason to put yourself at any sort of risk. {hugs}

bluejupiter

Thanks Equinessa, so much. We have tried. We've made him mental health appointments and he won't keep them. His mom took him, he said he could handle it alone so she left him there, and he ran. He won't take meds. He's had psych evals when he was in hospital recently after his drunk driving accident. He had another 2 weeks after when he was seen for complications. Both times they let him just go. The only time he agreed to take meds was when he was in jail and when he was released 2 weeks later, he stopped. He will not accept help yet.

Aesakitty

I have experience with mentally ill family members (both paranoid schizophrenics). They understand what they see/hear is not real, and sometimes they chose to react to it, and sometimes they do not. What is interesting is they act crazier when they want something. It may be drugs, free stuff, a place to stay, or anything. They have learned that acting crazy freaks people out, or makes people feel bad for them. Either option leads to the free stuff/attention they want. It is my guess that this is want is going on with your (ex?)boyfriend. My examples began to take their medication and act appropriately when they were ready. Other people tried to make them for years, but they had to make the choice themselves.

You should get the help you need to not need him anymore. Good luck.

GiveLove

jupiter, I'm feelin' for you. I'm sorry this is happening, and I hope he finds help for himself.

I personally think you're doing a great job of detaching, when you aren't having a meltdown Honestly -- that sounds weird but -- I found that my last weeks with my sisters showed really good loving detachment punctuated by the occasional meltdown brought on by re-engaging with them. It sounds like you're doing okay most of the time in the face of something sad that you can't control. Hang in there.

Hope you can focus on you, and let God take care of him, no matter what form that takes. It is really awful, for sure, but it doesn't have to sweep your life away into chaos.

bluejupiter

Thanks. I do have the occasional meltdown for sure. He accuses me of having my priorities and him not being one. He just doesn't want to face reality, he hates it. He says I'm always so negative. I try to tell him that by saying no he cantgo to Italy and buy a Ferrari isn't being negative, it's being realistic. He just wants to stay in his own world I guess. Man. It's heart breaking to see the guy I fell in love with go from one extreme to another. He is a completely different person than he was last summer. It breaks my heart.

equinessa

Yes Silverberry I take your point. I forgot about the warrant.

With all due respect Aesakitty, being related to a person with schizophrenia is not a qualification to interpret their perception of reality or motives for behaviour during psychosis, (or at any other time). I went to school, that does not mean I could be a teacher.

However the issue here is this young man with a mental illness (bipolar affective disorder I think you said) who is "choosing" not to take his meds and choosing to self medicate with a medication of his choosing, alcohol. There is no denying that the side effects of anti-psychotics can be severe, obesity, diabetes, sexual disfunction, lethargy, agranulocytosis, and a host of other maladies. That is why people don't want to take them. In mental health it is called "non-compliance", but interestinly only in mental health........(I have never heard of the term being used on people with heart conditions who continue to smoke tobacco.) The other thing is that hypomania is a eurphoric state, however can quickly turn to irritability and violence. Who would want to listen to a bunch of people telling them to come down off a high and take meds with all the side effects I mentioned........it is their choice.

However, when someone presents a risk to themselves or others, do we just say, oh well that's his/her choice. Yes we can and the person can lose a lot more than their teeth to learn that lesson, sometimes their life. Because it is seen as a duty of care to protect people and the community from decisions they make whilst mentally ill, our our society has designed legislation. In Aust it's called the Mental Health Act and it tries to weave a path through protecting the rights of the individual and keeping them and the community free from harm. Part of that legislation is the Community Treatment Order which makes it a legal requirement for someone to take their medication either under supervision or through an injection (usually modecate), a drug with side effects that really do dull the senses. It is debatable how "safe" these individuals in fact are, forcing them to take meds that do indeed "harm" them with side effects. On the other hand they can and do become homeless, destitute, physically wasted, abused and so on when untreated and early mortality is often the end result.

What is the solution? I am happy to hear your thoughts, have that discussion.

Just another point. A mental illness is always the primary diagnosis in relation to alcoholism. Alcoholism, as opposed to cannabis and meth-amphetamine use does not cause a DSM1V mental illness. Psychosis on the other hand is a symptom of a mental illness and may be a temporary symptom of drug and alcohol abuse.

Sorry if this is sounding like a lecture, it isnt my intention to spout off like a know-all. The ethics of care is interesting and involved and on-going. Ultimately there are probably as many view points as there are situations and cultures.

Barbara52

equinessa, Even if one wants to try and get someone the care they need but don't/won't seek on their own for a serious mental illness, here in the US it's very difficult to do so. Involuntary committment is a long, expensive legal process in many cases. And even when one gets a person committed for treatment, it ususally short term and as soon as they leave they are on their own. It sucks but that's the way it is.

bluejupiter

I hear ya E. Somethings bound to happen soon. I don't know what. His poor family -his parents and sister are just agonizing over this. His moms a lawyer and active member of NAMI so she's pretty smart. But for her and his dad and sister to watch him self destruct is killing them. Regarding his tooth, when his mom said it beds taken care of he said "whatever, I don't care". He's lost all hope. I'm wondering now if an intervention is the way to go. But he has no insurance, and his family isn't rich. Everyone who loves this guy is a mess over this.

Silverberry1331

Hi again, E.

I appreciate your response. You are quite knowledgable in this area.

In regards to your question, I do not have a solution. I cannot solve this problem. I can only speak to my disease of co-dependence, which interferes when I otherwise should. I believe that all human beings have a right to live a happy and serene and productive life, and this includes myself and my alcoholic. When I get involved in their life in an unhealthy way and use any reason to do so, including his mental illness, then I do both he and I a disservice.

I am not responsible for the risks that others take. However, I never just say oh well...because in my honest opinion "oh well" is indifference. Rather, I am proactive in the way I know how: Pray, love, relinquish responsibility that is not mine etc. This is detachment with compassion. I leave the action, in this case, to authorities who have more knowledge such as health care facilitators, doctors, etc. There are shades of gray on this. Of course, if my husband was in my vacinity and he slit his wrists, I would provide first aid and call 911. I would assure him that help was available and assure him that he is loved. Detaching in love...this is all I am asking Jupiter to consider.

She is about to lose her job. She is losing her sanity. Her nerves are frazzled. She is putting HER health at risk. I find that when the focuses shift from the person who is writing the post to the addict then codependency has kicked in. In my posts, lots of people would attempt to get me to focus on myself and off my husband. Until I was better, did I realize that these people were further in their recovery.

Thanks for the insight...

Silverberry1331

What about you Jupiter? How are you taking care of you? Hugs.:ghug3

bluejupiter

I am.... Trying not to think about him usually. Preparing for my moms visit. Sending him the occasional text message that I care and I hope he gets help soon. I am detached but I am worried. I won't give him anything except a ride to the hospital if he asked. If he weren't mentally ill, I'd be much less concerned. But he's delusional. And injured. If I had the $ for an intervention, I'd pay for it. I know I should get to al-anon but haven't.