Complicated Situation
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: California
Posts: 239
Hi Houston,
My AW just went to inpatient rehab for the second time and has tried outpatient rehab 4-5 times. You always know that they've been drinking but the times they seem to be getting better often cloud your better judgement. My experience is that I should have been stronger soon and separated or divorced. The one thing I would do different if I had it to do over again is focus on what your see and what is happening. The alcoholic knows they are screwing up and drinking. You just get sucked into the situation where she has an excuse to argue with you. The important thing is that YOU know she is drinking and YOU can do something to protect you and your children from her. Telling her about how much you love or don't love her will only make her "turtle" more and keep you in an emotional state rather than an empowered one. Sounds like you don't want to be with her because she's an alcoholic that is endangering your children and not being honest with you in your relationship. You not loving her is a byproduct .
Go with your gut!
My AW just went to inpatient rehab for the second time and has tried outpatient rehab 4-5 times. You always know that they've been drinking but the times they seem to be getting better often cloud your better judgement. My experience is that I should have been stronger soon and separated or divorced. The one thing I would do different if I had it to do over again is focus on what your see and what is happening. The alcoholic knows they are screwing up and drinking. You just get sucked into the situation where she has an excuse to argue with you. The important thing is that YOU know she is drinking and YOU can do something to protect you and your children from her. Telling her about how much you love or don't love her will only make her "turtle" more and keep you in an emotional state rather than an empowered one. Sounds like you don't want to be with her because she's an alcoholic that is endangering your children and not being honest with you in your relationship. You not loving her is a byproduct .
Go with your gut!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Mudgee NSW
Posts: 70
"I have been married for 8 years and I am the father of 3 beautiful girls aged 7,5, and 4. My basic problem is that I am not in love with my wife and I don't know if I ever was. Eight years ago when I was single and getting older, I really wanted to get married and start a family. For stupid reasons, my relationship went really too fast and she became pregnant after 6 months of dating. I was not sure where the relationship was heading and I had my doubts but I wanted to do the right thing so I married her."
OK devil's advocate here. If you have never loved your wife, what makes you think that "doing the right thing" is marrying her? There are countless single mum's who are have chosen to be single. Some have been in marriages, some have opted to have the kid/s because the biological clock was ticking and they had not found "the one" but didn't want to risk "the one" showing up too late for their reproductive clocks.
Sorry, I know that your wife is responsible for her sobriety etc, but surely the fact that she became pregnant is at least half your responsibility as is marrying someone you didn't really feel you loved. But hey we live our lives front to back and hindsight is 20/20isn't it. Why you chose to mary someone you didn't love is your business. Personally I think that is as sad as alcoholism.
I married a man who is an alcoholic, i didn't know he was at the time, or where this disease would take me, but it is I who made the decision and I am responsible for making it. Nobody held a gun to my head.
Houston you said that "the first few years were fine....but you never felt happy or in love with your wife. I hate to tell you this (and I may not be interptreting your post correctly) but if you are not a happy person, being with or without our wife isn't necessarily going to change that. You will still be the same unhappy person.
I am a newcomer and that is what I am beginning to grasp/learn in al-anon. My happiness is up to me. Sucks doesn't it?
OK devil's advocate here. If you have never loved your wife, what makes you think that "doing the right thing" is marrying her? There are countless single mum's who are have chosen to be single. Some have been in marriages, some have opted to have the kid/s because the biological clock was ticking and they had not found "the one" but didn't want to risk "the one" showing up too late for their reproductive clocks.
Sorry, I know that your wife is responsible for her sobriety etc, but surely the fact that she became pregnant is at least half your responsibility as is marrying someone you didn't really feel you loved. But hey we live our lives front to back and hindsight is 20/20isn't it. Why you chose to mary someone you didn't love is your business. Personally I think that is as sad as alcoholism.
I married a man who is an alcoholic, i didn't know he was at the time, or where this disease would take me, but it is I who made the decision and I am responsible for making it. Nobody held a gun to my head.
Houston you said that "the first few years were fine....but you never felt happy or in love with your wife. I hate to tell you this (and I may not be interptreting your post correctly) but if you are not a happy person, being with or without our wife isn't necessarily going to change that. You will still be the same unhappy person.
I am a newcomer and that is what I am beginning to grasp/learn in al-anon. My happiness is up to me. Sucks doesn't it?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Mudgee NSW
Posts: 70
By jingos, i just re-read that and it sounds a bit tough. I'm sorry. I think it is because i cannot imagine how that must feel for your wife as well, knowing that you do not/never have loved her. And fighting an addiction to alcohol on top of it all.
A very sad situation.
Best thoughts for the five of you.
A very sad situation.
Best thoughts for the five of you.
Fulldresser4
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mid-Michigan
Posts: 531
Houston...(((hugs))). I am a recovering alcoholic. My husband informed me a few months ago that he was having an affair and wanted a divorce. He has since moved in with his girlfriend. I was laid off from my job, and we are losing our house. I tell you this only for frame of reference. This is what it took for ME to hit my rock bottom, to be humbled, and to fall to my knees. I just received my 90 day coin last Friday (this is my third time).
That said, I can tell you this as an alcoholic. He would find empty bottles everywhere - the garbage, hidden in the cupboards behind stuff, in file cabinets, absolutely insane places. I would tell him that they were from "before I quit".
He would come home and I would be drunk. I would tell him that they were from the muscle relaxer I took because I was "stressed". I would go to the store under the guise of needing milk, or sugar, or dish detergent, or whatever. I would pour my booze into the Big Gulp cup along with the little bit of pop, and drink it and he was none the wiser. I would hide it in my truck, in the couch, in the bedroom between the mattresses, wherever I could get to it easily when he left the room.
I say this sadly, not proudly. I was simply not capable of being honest. Today I can look back and see how sick and twisted, and simply insane, this behavior was. Today I know that I had to be humbled and surrender, and cry out for help. Today, God is doing for me what I could not do for myself. And today, I take it one day at a time.
I hope somehow this helps. You and your girls will be in my prayers.
Annie
That said, I can tell you this as an alcoholic. He would find empty bottles everywhere - the garbage, hidden in the cupboards behind stuff, in file cabinets, absolutely insane places. I would tell him that they were from "before I quit".
He would come home and I would be drunk. I would tell him that they were from the muscle relaxer I took because I was "stressed". I would go to the store under the guise of needing milk, or sugar, or dish detergent, or whatever. I would pour my booze into the Big Gulp cup along with the little bit of pop, and drink it and he was none the wiser. I would hide it in my truck, in the couch, in the bedroom between the mattresses, wherever I could get to it easily when he left the room.
I say this sadly, not proudly. I was simply not capable of being honest. Today I can look back and see how sick and twisted, and simply insane, this behavior was. Today I know that I had to be humbled and surrender, and cry out for help. Today, God is doing for me what I could not do for myself. And today, I take it one day at a time.
I hope somehow this helps. You and your girls will be in my prayers.
Annie
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Welcome to SR.. everyone has been very nice. The common reaction here is the group hug approach, my reaction isn't.
And then brought two more children into a loveless marriage? You told her this a few weeks from her coming back from rehab? Your timing sucks. Look man I'm not trying to be a jerk and I've made plenty of mistakes myself, but I'm not buying this whole speil about you falling on your own sword because you're such a good guy. I'm guessing your entire marriage was tainted by a subtle resentment on your part, probably contributing to your wifes unhappiness. What's done is done so lets look at the real problem.
Get a good lawyer and get educated about your rights as a Father. Treat your girls mother with respect and support her attempt at sobriety as much as you can WITHOUT jeopardizing the emotional health of the girls. I hope for your childrens sake their mother can get and stay sober with her entire world crashing around her, (loss of her Father, struggling with an addiction, marriage out the window... man if she can survive this she's one tough cookie). Your girls will be much better off with a sober mother in their lives so I wish her luck.
It's just these types of posts that scream out the children are hurt more than ANYONE. Sorry if this seems harsh but it's a huge hot button for me. Oh... and if I were you I'd get a vasectomy.
Originally Posted by houston28 
My basic problem is that I am not in love with my wife and I don't know if I ever was..... I had my doubts but I wanted to do the right thing so I married her.
Originally Posted by houston28
I told her that I didn't love her as a woman but I do as the mother of our children and that I think we should separate.
Originally Posted by houston28
I always thought maybe having children meant having to sacrifice many things which is true but I am not so sure about having to sacrifice my happiness.
Get a good lawyer and get educated about your rights as a Father. Treat your girls mother with respect and support her attempt at sobriety as much as you can WITHOUT jeopardizing the emotional health of the girls. I hope for your childrens sake their mother can get and stay sober with her entire world crashing around her, (loss of her Father, struggling with an addiction, marriage out the window... man if she can survive this she's one tough cookie). Your girls will be much better off with a sober mother in their lives so I wish her luck.
It's just these types of posts that scream out the children are hurt more than ANYONE. Sorry if this seems harsh but it's a huge hot button for me. Oh... and if I were you I'd get a vasectomy.
mle-sober
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 1,243
Originally Posted by houston28
Thanks mle-sober, your kind words meant a lot to me. I feel so guilty for hurting her like this and I want to help her to get sober. I know that I probably shouldn't feel guilty but I really don't know how to let go of the guilt.
But I have to say I'm pretty surprised by the angry judgemental posts. Maybe just take what works and leave the rest.
When you say you feel guilty for hurting her and you want to hlep her get sober, it makes me think of a few things. One, going to therapy with her, to AA with her and to Al-anon on your own might help show you are supportive. Even if you want a divorce, therapy can help. There is ugly terrible gut-wrenching divorce and there is just gut-wrenching divorce. It's better for everyone if you can keep the ugly and terrible part out of the picture. Especially for your kids.
Someone mentioned the idea of a breathylizer. When I was saying that I wasn't drinking but I was, I bought my husband a breathylizer to use at his discretion. I thought he wouldn't use it, I guess. He did. And so began the stage in my life where I had to get honest. Buy one. Tell your wife you have one. And use it ANYTIME you want. She should not be drinking when she is responsible for the kids.
So you can even have a written agreement. If she drinks when taking care of kids, you will ask her to move out or get a babysitter or whatever seems right between the 2 of you.
Have a preliminary meeting with a lawyer.
In the meantime, work in therapy toward a divorce that is mutual and as amicable as possible. There are even books to help you do this.
Also, go to AA with her. GO to Al-anon.
And I suspect that things will start to become clear.
Good luck. I think that's all the advice I've got in me. I wish you well. Keep us posted!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Can we please try to keep this to experience, strength & hope?
People come here because they're in pain and they're trying to find solutions. I fail to see how it would be helpful if people were to respond to everyone who posts, "Well, if you'd done THIS then you wouldn't be having this problem, would you?????"
There are many posters on this forum, especially those who are new to recovery, whose life choices trigger others. A little restraint will keep this place from descending into a shrill, self-serving judgment-fest that has no value for anyone.
People come here because they're in pain and they're trying to find solutions. I fail to see how it would be helpful if people were to respond to everyone who posts, "Well, if you'd done THIS then you wouldn't be having this problem, would you?????"
There are many posters on this forum, especially those who are new to recovery, whose life choices trigger others. A little restraint will keep this place from descending into a shrill, self-serving judgment-fest that has no value for anyone.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
I personally don't see a judgmental post here. Maybe that's why the Al Anon suggestion of take what you like and leave the rest works so well. One person's judgment is another's opinion.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Fascinating....because I find "get a vasectomy" just ever-so-slightly judgmental. Or perhaps jazzman was simply giving medical advice. It also wrapped up a post that skewered a new poster for behavior & choices he had already had the candor to admit, in front of perfect strangers, weren't the best.
In my humble opinion, "Take what you need and leave the rest" doesn' t apply to that kind of viciousness.
If houston28 were female, I doubt that kind of reaction would be tolerated here, least of all by you.
Experience, strength & hope keep this place valuable. Snide remarks cheapen all of our experiences.
In my humble opinion, "Take what you need and leave the rest" doesn' t apply to that kind of viciousness.
If houston28 were female, I doubt that kind of reaction would be tolerated here, least of all by you.
Experience, strength & hope keep this place valuable. Snide remarks cheapen all of our experiences.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by Jazzman
if I were you I'd get a vasectomy.
I didn't see it as judgemental either.
L
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Houston28 I'm sorry if my post is harsh or offended you in any way, it's not intended to be that way at all. It comes from experience (I've been through the same thing) strength (the advice I offer is the same I would offer my best friend because it's what worked for me, even the vasectomy part) and hope (every child needs two sober parents, I hope yours get that gift, many don't).
You will see many different opinions and approaches here, all are valid and worth the read, but always remember to take what you like and leave the rest.... and keep posting.
You will see many different opinions and approaches here, all are valid and worth the read, but always remember to take what you like and leave the rest.... and keep posting.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Originally Posted by GiveLove
If houston28 were female, I doubt that kind of reaction would be tolerated here, least of all by you.
If have seen more and more men post in F&F lately and I think it's great that more men are willing to air the dirty laundry that we have been told to keep to ourselves. I also have to remember that this is a co-ed forum and guy talk is not always going to be appropriate. My apologies.. again.
I hope my apologies will be accepted and we can get back to Huston28.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10
Thanks everyone again for replying to my thread and you all have helped out a lot. Even your post has been helpful Jazzman and I do want to clarify a few things.
I'm not so innocent and trying to play the whoa is me card here. I thought that marrying my pregnant girlfriend was the right thing to do and perhaps I thought my love would grow for her as the marriage went on, but I understand that that was probably a mistake as was having the second child which was actually planned and I don't regret because I love all of my kids so much. The third child was an accident and to make a long story short, my wife had an IUD put in and got pregnant anyhow. When the doctor did an ultrasound of her entire abdomen the IUD was nowhere to be found and he suspected it could have come out during her period. So the third was not my fault but again have no regrets as I could not imagine my life without any of my kids.
Yes my timing sucks and was not my plan to do any of this until after the holidays. However, when I suspected her of relapsing this past Saturday I didn't say anything but I could not hide my disgust. So yesterday she kept asking me what's wrong, what's wrong talk to me. I told her I suspected her of drinking and all my frustration and feelings came out. When she got into her fifth car accident she was the one who brought up that she feels that i don't love her like a husband should love a wife and I didn't deny that when she said it to me.
Also, I don't think I am a good guy and falling on my sword and all that BS. I will be the first to tell you that I have a lot to improve on to become a better man and father. Look I am not in a hurry to do anything and I will participate openly and honestly in MC to investigate if I can get that love for her back. I never said I never was in love with her, I said I'm not sure if I ever was. Believe me I don't want to feel what I feel. The one thing I have learned from the process is that I am not to blame for her drinking. So if she felt my resentment and that made her unhappy I am truly sorry but she made the decision to drink and endanger the lives of our children.
Lastly, Jazzman thanks for your suggestion, but guess what? I had a vasectomy over 3 years ago because even though I am not sure where my marriage was headed I have enough kids and even if I end up divorced and meet someone else I don't want to have any more. Thanks again and I appreciate everything you good people have offered to me. Peace.
I'm not so innocent and trying to play the whoa is me card here. I thought that marrying my pregnant girlfriend was the right thing to do and perhaps I thought my love would grow for her as the marriage went on, but I understand that that was probably a mistake as was having the second child which was actually planned and I don't regret because I love all of my kids so much. The third child was an accident and to make a long story short, my wife had an IUD put in and got pregnant anyhow. When the doctor did an ultrasound of her entire abdomen the IUD was nowhere to be found and he suspected it could have come out during her period. So the third was not my fault but again have no regrets as I could not imagine my life without any of my kids.
Yes my timing sucks and was not my plan to do any of this until after the holidays. However, when I suspected her of relapsing this past Saturday I didn't say anything but I could not hide my disgust. So yesterday she kept asking me what's wrong, what's wrong talk to me. I told her I suspected her of drinking and all my frustration and feelings came out. When she got into her fifth car accident she was the one who brought up that she feels that i don't love her like a husband should love a wife and I didn't deny that when she said it to me.
Also, I don't think I am a good guy and falling on my sword and all that BS. I will be the first to tell you that I have a lot to improve on to become a better man and father. Look I am not in a hurry to do anything and I will participate openly and honestly in MC to investigate if I can get that love for her back. I never said I never was in love with her, I said I'm not sure if I ever was. Believe me I don't want to feel what I feel. The one thing I have learned from the process is that I am not to blame for her drinking. So if she felt my resentment and that made her unhappy I am truly sorry but she made the decision to drink and endanger the lives of our children.
Lastly, Jazzman thanks for your suggestion, but guess what? I had a vasectomy over 3 years ago because even though I am not sure where my marriage was headed I have enough kids and even if I end up divorced and meet someone else I don't want to have any more. Thanks again and I appreciate everything you good people have offered to me. Peace.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Good for you, I hate it when guys wont talk about personal "stuff" or pull that vasectomyphobia crap about nobody's going near my family jewels yada yada.
Hey man, this whole thing sucks and I'm here to tell you it can and does get better. I stand by my advice to talk to a good lawyer. Your childrens welfare is your top priority and I already knew you loved your kids and wouldn't change a thing. I love mine too..even my PINA teenager, but that's another post.
But also keep in mind that relapse is a part of recovery for an addict. Maybe your wife can learn from this and move on, maybe it's not time to throw in the towel just yet. I would encourage you to think of her recovery and happily ever after as two different issues all together. I would also encourage you to learn all you can about addiction and get support form where ever you can, therapy, Alanon, reading. The stickies at the top of the F&F forum that are a really good start.
Hey man, this whole thing sucks and I'm here to tell you it can and does get better. I stand by my advice to talk to a good lawyer. Your childrens welfare is your top priority and I already knew you loved your kids and wouldn't change a thing. I love mine too..even my PINA teenager, but that's another post.
But also keep in mind that relapse is a part of recovery for an addict. Maybe your wife can learn from this and move on, maybe it's not time to throw in the towel just yet. I would encourage you to think of her recovery and happily ever after as two different issues all together. I would also encourage you to learn all you can about addiction and get support form where ever you can, therapy, Alanon, reading. The stickies at the top of the F&F forum that are a really good start.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 282
Don't take this the wrong way but It made me sad when you said you never loved your wife. How do you know? Is it just because you are unhappy? Did you ever feel like you loved her or did it all happen too fast? She got pregnant after 6 months. What about those first six months before she got pregnant? What did you see in her? I'm just wondering that's all.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ingleburn NSW Australia
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by equinessa
By jingos, i just re-read that and it sounds a bit tough. I'm sorry. I think it is because i cannot imagine how that must feel for your wife as well, knowing that you do not/never have loved her. And fighting an addiction to alcohol on top of it all.
A very sad situation.
Best thoughts for the five of you.
A very sad situation.
Best thoughts for the five of you.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by Franticwife
I must say my first thoughts were also for your poor wife, as Equinessa's were. You can't fool a woman - she has known from the start that you didn't love her, and I just wonder if that is the reason she started drinking. Of course you must separate, even if she were not an alcoholic. There is nothing more soul-destroying than loving someone who you know doesn't love you. And remember, there are plenty of women out there on their own, bringing up kids and also being "the sole bread-winner" (I was one).
The only ones in this sad story who did not have the benefit of choosing are the children. Any and all decisions made from here should be made in their best interests.
L
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10
Frantic Wife
My wife knowing that I don't love her could certainly be a trigger to make her drink but i am not responsible for her addiction. And yes my mother raised me as a single mom and she did well despite having to work her butt off.
My wife knowing that I don't love her could certainly be a trigger to make her drink but i am not responsible for her addiction. And yes my mother raised me as a single mom and she did well despite having to work her butt off.
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