Angry Today
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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Angry Today
This is my first time posting. I'm so angry today and the last thing I want to do is to walk into the other room and yell at my ABF, because I know how terribly that will go, but I do want to yell. I am angry and hurt and so tired of all this.
I live with my ABF, and have for two years. We've been together nearly five years. Thanksgiving night we had some friends over after dinner for coffee, dessert, and yes, drinks. Of course, by the end of the night he's had nearly an entire bottle of vodka and is slurring his speech and embarrassing himself and falls down three times. He also ran into a door. At 2 a.m. I had to walk him to the bathroom because he couldn't do it himself. All of this in front of a friend who stayed the night.
Once he's in bed, strange behaviors start. He starts kicking and punching the bed, and hits me twice by accident. He thrashes around and really hurts me by slamming his head into mine, hitting the bridge of my nose. I'm scared and startled and tired of all of it. I make myself stay awake for another two hours -- until 5 a.m., so I know he's really passed out and won't hurt me anymore in his sleep. I sleep for four hours.
When we wake up, he asks me what's wrong. I believe very firmly in telling him exactly what happens when he's drunk. I do so in a very non-accusatory way. Almost like a documentary. I just list what occurred, occasionally asking him if he "remembered" falling down, or hitting me. I tell him that last night really sucked for me. He listens intently, he feels terrible for hurting me and embarrassing us. He was so ashamed yesterday morning. Genuinely ashamed. He cries and talks about what a "train wreck" of a person he is for nearly an hour. That was at 10:30 a.m. By 5:30 p.m. he had another vodka and soda in his hands. Then, dinner with friends and three martinis. He's always a big hit at parties. I drive home, like I always do, the permanent designated driver. By midnight, he's passed out on the couch, again.
I know it's chemical. I know it's a disease. But I'm just so so tired of it. I know it's wrong to think like this, but I don't understand why he couldn't wait even a couple of hours to have that first drink -- even just for show. Even just to FAKE that he's making some effort. I know that's wrong, but I just want some tiny show of concern for my feelings.
I know that won't happen, but today I am just feeling angry and irrational. I do go to al-Anon meetings, and should go more often. We are both in therapy - he just started going, actually likes it, and has been making some positive behavioral changes, but he may never decide to work on his alcoholism. I understand that. Most days I'm better about accepting the situation and knowing my limits. But I needed to vent, and appreciate the community here and its support.
TinyBear
I live with my ABF, and have for two years. We've been together nearly five years. Thanksgiving night we had some friends over after dinner for coffee, dessert, and yes, drinks. Of course, by the end of the night he's had nearly an entire bottle of vodka and is slurring his speech and embarrassing himself and falls down three times. He also ran into a door. At 2 a.m. I had to walk him to the bathroom because he couldn't do it himself. All of this in front of a friend who stayed the night.
Once he's in bed, strange behaviors start. He starts kicking and punching the bed, and hits me twice by accident. He thrashes around and really hurts me by slamming his head into mine, hitting the bridge of my nose. I'm scared and startled and tired of all of it. I make myself stay awake for another two hours -- until 5 a.m., so I know he's really passed out and won't hurt me anymore in his sleep. I sleep for four hours.
When we wake up, he asks me what's wrong. I believe very firmly in telling him exactly what happens when he's drunk. I do so in a very non-accusatory way. Almost like a documentary. I just list what occurred, occasionally asking him if he "remembered" falling down, or hitting me. I tell him that last night really sucked for me. He listens intently, he feels terrible for hurting me and embarrassing us. He was so ashamed yesterday morning. Genuinely ashamed. He cries and talks about what a "train wreck" of a person he is for nearly an hour. That was at 10:30 a.m. By 5:30 p.m. he had another vodka and soda in his hands. Then, dinner with friends and three martinis. He's always a big hit at parties. I drive home, like I always do, the permanent designated driver. By midnight, he's passed out on the couch, again.
I know it's chemical. I know it's a disease. But I'm just so so tired of it. I know it's wrong to think like this, but I don't understand why he couldn't wait even a couple of hours to have that first drink -- even just for show. Even just to FAKE that he's making some effort. I know that's wrong, but I just want some tiny show of concern for my feelings.
I know that won't happen, but today I am just feeling angry and irrational. I do go to al-Anon meetings, and should go more often. We are both in therapy - he just started going, actually likes it, and has been making some positive behavioral changes, but he may never decide to work on his alcoholism. I understand that. Most days I'm better about accepting the situation and knowing my limits. But I needed to vent, and appreciate the community here and its support.
TinyBear
mle-sober
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 1,243
Yikes Tiny Bear,
First of all, why are you so tiny? (Not kidding.)
Second of all why in the heck do you still live with him? I'm the recovering alcoholic in my family and I've never been in your shoes. So I apologize if I'm too blunt or offensive. But you deserve better and you'll never get it if you keep living with an active alcoholic. You say, "I know it's wrong to think like this," when you wish your ABF would get help or even pretend to get help.
It's not wrong to think like that!! Who's life are you living?
If you don't want to break up with him for some mysterious reason (what are you getting out of being the enabler?) than at the very least move out and live separately.
With peace, mle
First of all, why are you so tiny? (Not kidding.)
Second of all why in the heck do you still live with him? I'm the recovering alcoholic in my family and I've never been in your shoes. So I apologize if I'm too blunt or offensive. But you deserve better and you'll never get it if you keep living with an active alcoholic. You say, "I know it's wrong to think like this," when you wish your ABF would get help or even pretend to get help.
It's not wrong to think like that!! Who's life are you living?
If you don't want to break up with him for some mysterious reason (what are you getting out of being the enabler?) than at the very least move out and live separately.
With peace, mle
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
Hi TinyBear! I'm sorry for your pain and confusion, it's a horrible way to have to live.
Here is something you might find interesting to read:
Here is something you might find interesting to read:
Spouses and other family members begin to ask a perfectly logical question: "If you really love and care about me, why do you keep doing what you know hurts me so badly?" To this the addict has no answer except to promise once again to do better, "this time for real, youÇll see!" or to respond with grievances and complaints of his own. The question of fairness arises as the addict attempts to extenuate his own admitted transgressions by repeated references to what he considers the equal or greater faults of those who complain of his addictive behavior. This natural defensive maneuver of "the best defense is a good offense" variety can be the first step on a slippery slope that leads to the paranoid demonization of the very people the addict cares about the most. Unable any longer to carry the burden of his own transgressions he begins to think of himself as the victim of the unfairness and unreasonableness of others who are forever harping on his addiction and the consequences that flow from it. "Leave me alone," he may snap. "IÇm not hurting anybody but myself!" He has become almost totally blind to how his addictive behavior does in fact harm those around him who care about him; and he has grown so confused that hurting only himself has begun to sound like a rational, even a virtuous thing to do!
Corresponding in a mirror image fashion to the addictÇs sense of unfair victimization by his significant others may be the rising self-pity, resentment and outrage of those whose lives are repeatedly disturbed or disrupted by the addictÇs behavior. A downward spiral commences of reciprocally reinforcing mistrust and resentment as once healthy and mutually supportive relationships begin to corrode under the toxic effects of the relentless addictive process.
As the addictive process claims more of the addict's self and lifeworld his addiction becomes his primary relationship to the detriment of all others. Strange as it sounds to speak of a bottle of alcohol, a drug, a gambling obsession or any other such compulsive behavior as a love object, this is precisely what goes on in advanced addictive illness. This means that in addiction there is always infidelity to other love objects such as spouses and other family - for the very existence of addiction signifies an allegiance that is at best divided and at worst -and more commonly- betrayed. For there comes a stage in every serious addiction at which the paramount attachment of the addict is to the addiction itself. Those unfortunates who attempt to preserve a human relationship to individuals in the throes of progressive addiction almost always sense their own secondary "less than" status in relation to the addiction - and despite the addict's passionate and indignant denials of this reality, they are right: the addict does indeed love his addiction more than he loves them.
Corresponding in a mirror image fashion to the addictÇs sense of unfair victimization by his significant others may be the rising self-pity, resentment and outrage of those whose lives are repeatedly disturbed or disrupted by the addictÇs behavior. A downward spiral commences of reciprocally reinforcing mistrust and resentment as once healthy and mutually supportive relationships begin to corrode under the toxic effects of the relentless addictive process.
As the addictive process claims more of the addict's self and lifeworld his addiction becomes his primary relationship to the detriment of all others. Strange as it sounds to speak of a bottle of alcohol, a drug, a gambling obsession or any other such compulsive behavior as a love object, this is precisely what goes on in advanced addictive illness. This means that in addiction there is always infidelity to other love objects such as spouses and other family - for the very existence of addiction signifies an allegiance that is at best divided and at worst -and more commonly- betrayed. For there comes a stage in every serious addiction at which the paramount attachment of the addict is to the addiction itself. Those unfortunates who attempt to preserve a human relationship to individuals in the throes of progressive addiction almost always sense their own secondary "less than" status in relation to the addiction - and despite the addict's passionate and indignant denials of this reality, they are right: the addict does indeed love his addiction more than he loves them.
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Originally Posted by mle-sober 
Yikes Tiny Bear, First of all, why are you so tiny? (Not kidding.)
Originally Posted by mle-sober
Second of all why in the heck do you still live with him? I'm the recovering alcoholic in my family and I've never been in your shoes. So I apologize if I'm too blunt or offensive. But you deserve better and you'll never get it if you keep living with an active alcoholic. You say, "I know it's wrong to think like this," when you wish your ABF would get help or even pretend to get help. It's not wrong to think like that!! Who's life are you living?
If you don't want to break up with him for some mysterious reason (what are you getting out of being the enabler?) than at the very least move out and live separately.
If you don't want to break up with him for some mysterious reason (what are you getting out of being the enabler?) than at the very least move out and live separately.
I know I have some issues, and I am actively working on them in therapy. I have an emergency plan if I need to leave suddenly, and am trying to focus on keeping things together one day at a time until I'm strong enough to make the hard decisions. I've already made some hard ones.
About two months ago I issued a firm ultimatum that my ABH had to go into therapy -- or seek some kind of outside help -- or I would leave the relationship.
He agreed, and has been faithfully going to therapy and making genuine changes. My quality of life has vastly improved. Gone is the yelling, the anger, the nonstop fights. He used to be aggressive and mean. Now, he's calm and not aggressive at all, and accepting responsibility for his behavior (when he's sober, which means up until about 9 p.m. every night). The changes so far have been startling and amazing, and he really has attached to his therapist. The therapist has worked with addiction before and grew up in an alcoholic home, so he knows what's going on. I trust that this path can help him, even if I do have to leave the relationship at some point.
All of this is to say that yes, I know I do deserve better. I know that I can't have children or get married to this person unless he stops drinking. (I'm 31! Need to sort that stuff out soon...) I know that all of this is a process, for him and for me, and I'm trying to work through it the best I can.
I'm not under the illusion he'll magically get better all of a sudden, but right now I feel I owe him a little time, since he did respond to my ultimatum and wants to make things right, even if he's in the grips of his chemical dependency.
Sometimes, his progress makes the bad days that much harder, you know? Thanks again for your kind thoughts and consideration.
-Tinybear.
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Originally Posted by Still Waters
Hi TinyBear! I'm sorry for your pain and confusion, it's a horrible way to have to live.
mle-sober
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 1,243
My mother stayed in a bad relationship with my father her entire life because, as she said, "He supports me and he doesn't have affairs."
I find myself staying in a difficult relationship where is his angry and critical, dismissive and disinterested because, "I want to protect the children from the pain of divorce."
Splintering long-term relationships whether there is marriage or not and whether there are kids or not is live-altering and terrifying. Our love relationships say so much about our hopes and dreams and then we have to admit that we were wrong. Or that it will never happen the way we hoped. I know how scarey it is.
The only way I can make it work in my own relationship (like I said - he's not an alcoholic like your man, he's just a selfish jerk a lot of the time) is to be very clear about what is mine and what is his. I keep my side of the street as clean as possible.
I'm sure you're aware of that one. But I wonder at the ways in which you enable him.
How do you know he's actually going to therapy? Do you have the right to talk to his therapist and get information? When I was drinking, I might have pretended and then just drank instead but tried to manage things so my husband would think I was improving.
It just sounds like you are minimizing the extent of his disease because you want to believe he will get better, things will improve...
Nothing improved for me (although I pretended it did for about a year) until I totally capitulated and surrendered to getting help. Therpy once a week sounds (please forgive me) like the kind of think I would've used to demonstrate I was getting help to my loved ones who were eager for any sign of improvement....
I'm glad you don't think that you're tiny. But kind of interesting you used his name instead of yours.....
I find myself staying in a difficult relationship where is his angry and critical, dismissive and disinterested because, "I want to protect the children from the pain of divorce."
Splintering long-term relationships whether there is marriage or not and whether there are kids or not is live-altering and terrifying. Our love relationships say so much about our hopes and dreams and then we have to admit that we were wrong. Or that it will never happen the way we hoped. I know how scarey it is.
The only way I can make it work in my own relationship (like I said - he's not an alcoholic like your man, he's just a selfish jerk a lot of the time) is to be very clear about what is mine and what is his. I keep my side of the street as clean as possible.
I'm sure you're aware of that one. But I wonder at the ways in which you enable him.
How do you know he's actually going to therapy? Do you have the right to talk to his therapist and get information? When I was drinking, I might have pretended and then just drank instead but tried to manage things so my husband would think I was improving.
It just sounds like you are minimizing the extent of his disease because you want to believe he will get better, things will improve...
Nothing improved for me (although I pretended it did for about a year) until I totally capitulated and surrendered to getting help. Therpy once a week sounds (please forgive me) like the kind of think I would've used to demonstrate I was getting help to my loved ones who were eager for any sign of improvement....
I'm glad you don't think that you're tiny. But kind of interesting you used his name instead of yours.....
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Originally Posted by TinyBear
I'm sure I have some good and some bad reasons why I'm still here. I'm still working through that stuff. About two months ago I issued a firm ultimatum that my ABH had to go into therapy -- or seek some kind of outside help -- or I would leave the relationship.
He agreed, and has been faithfully going to therapy and making genuine changes.
He agreed, and has been faithfully going to therapy and making genuine changes.
I'm glad he's not ranting and raving any longer. However, he's still getting drunk. Genuine change for an addict is to quit drinking and work a program. He appears to be doing neither. Perhaps you are giving him more credit than is due in order to accept the unacceptable and gloss it over.
You started you post by stating that you are angry, hurt and so tired of all of this. I think therapy is a good thing. I believe the addict in your life needs more than therapy has to offer.
He's an active addict. He's appeasing you. From my marriage to two addicts, don't expect the status-quo to remain the status-quo indefinitely. For an A, one drink is too many, and a thousand drinks are never enough.
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Hey TinyBear-
Just don't forget that you have a right to be angry and it is completely normal to be angry at him for his actions. You also need to remember that you need to take care of yourself. You shouldn't have to deal with someone else's addiction. You have to understand that you are enabling his behavior though. It seems to me that people either learn from experience or they don't. And he doesn't. Cuz if he did he would have stopped drinking a long time ago. Maybe after the first stumble into a dorr or maybe even after hitting you...more importantly. I didn't learn from experience either. I had to hit rock bottom before I realized..."hey I have a drinking problem". I am still going through my own struggle. So in some sense maybe you are his rock bottom...maybe by you not putting up with his behavior and leaving or seperating yourself he will understand that he has a problem. Otherwise he will just expect you to be a constant in his life and never ealize that there is going to be a concequence to his problem drinking. I hope this helps and good luck to you!
Just don't forget that you have a right to be angry and it is completely normal to be angry at him for his actions. You also need to remember that you need to take care of yourself. You shouldn't have to deal with someone else's addiction. You have to understand that you are enabling his behavior though. It seems to me that people either learn from experience or they don't. And he doesn't. Cuz if he did he would have stopped drinking a long time ago. Maybe after the first stumble into a dorr or maybe even after hitting you...more importantly. I didn't learn from experience either. I had to hit rock bottom before I realized..."hey I have a drinking problem". I am still going through my own struggle. So in some sense maybe you are his rock bottom...maybe by you not putting up with his behavior and leaving or seperating yourself he will understand that he has a problem. Otherwise he will just expect you to be a constant in his life and never ealize that there is going to be a concequence to his problem drinking. I hope this helps and good luck to you!
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Originally Posted by Jack2000
Hey TinyBear- Just don't forget that you have a right to be angry and it is completely normal to be angry at him for his actions.
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Originally Posted by TinyBear
I do go to al-Anon meetings, and should go more often. We are both in therapy - he just started going, actually likes it, and has been making some positive behavioral changes, but he may never decide to work on his alcoholism. I understand that. Most days I'm better about accepting the situation and knowing my limits. But I needed to vent, and appreciate the community here and its support. TinyBear
You say that he likes therapy. That's a plus because many A's don't like it. What does his therapist say to you about his drinking?
Peace.
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Location: southern indiana
Posts: 2,145
i learned through al-anon, that when i felt angry about my situation with my xah, it was really a form of fear. fear of leaving, fear of making it all on my own, fear of the loss of my expectations of him, fear of the loss of him from my life....couldn't begin to imagine being without the few and far between good moments....fear of losing what was familiar to me.......and what was familiar to me was the chaos.
alcoholism only progresses unless they truly embrace recovery. stats show that only 1 in 10 make it. my relationship started so sweetly, the man of my life, the husband i had ) was directed right at me. i became very, very sick in my mind, body, and spirit.
i wanted to die, in the end. and i tried to.
i had always been a very strong, independant person.....a pillar of the community...a shaker and a mover for some very prominent organizations. i was up and coming on the corporate level.
after the smoke cleared and i regained my sanitiy, i had lost everything. now, my only desire is to stock shelves somewhere for a living. it's all i could possibly handle right now.
best of everything to you, and i pray for recovery for your b/f, but mostly for you.
alcoholism only progresses unless they truly embrace recovery. stats show that only 1 in 10 make it. my relationship started so sweetly, the man of my life, the husband i had ) was directed right at me. i became very, very sick in my mind, body, and spirit.
i wanted to die, in the end. and i tried to.
i had always been a very strong, independant person.....a pillar of the community...a shaker and a mover for some very prominent organizations. i was up and coming on the corporate level.
after the smoke cleared and i regained my sanitiy, i had lost everything. now, my only desire is to stock shelves somewhere for a living. it's all i could possibly handle right now.
best of everything to you, and i pray for recovery for your b/f, but mostly for you.
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I've been thinking about your post a lot, mle-sober, and frankly it's been hard for me. Your post triggered a larger issue I've had with the recovery community, and something that prevents me from going to meetings as much as I think I should.
One of my big problems so far wtih committing to going to Al-Anon is that I feel like a lot of people in Al-Anon are also working through issues with codependency, which is totally understandable. But I worry that in Al-Anon and on this message board, people are going to nudge me towards exploring that part of their issue, when I don't believe I have codependency issues. And you know, it's like a catch-22 if I "deny" being codependent, right? So even talking about that is fraught.
But looking honestly within myself, I have been wrestling with this issue in my heart for the last week. Maybe I am codependent and need to deal with my enabling behaviors, etc. and am in crazy-deep denial?!? Could that be the case?
It's a good question, mle-sober. Maybe I am enabling him...? Let's look at a few of my behaviors vis-a-vis my ABH's disease:
I don't know what all that adds up to. Maybe you guys with more experience in recovery can chime in, but I did ask my therapist about this, this week. She's very experienced in addiction and codependency issues and looked me straight in the eye and said, "you're not a codependent person. You and [your ABH] have issues, but what's happened here is that you fell deeply in love with an alcoholic who will probably never stop drinking. And that's tragic."
And that's tragic -- those words have stuck with me longer and rung in my head louder than anything I've heard on the subject so far. This isn't my fault, and god knows, it isn't my ABH's fault. This is not about blame. This is about a disease and a tragedy, at least in my mind.
My therapist and his therapist are in regular consultation. If he stopped going entirely, I would eventually hear about it. But on another note, unlike a lot of the people here, my ABF doesn't lie to me. We trust each other. He tells me about his therapy appointments. He says he is going "for his own reasons" now. He has referred a close friend to his therapist. He is making behavioral improvements. He's stopped being mean altogether. We have a loving relationship based on a lot of trust and mutual respect. Because I have never "punished" him with nagging and empty threats about his drinking, he's never had any incentive to lie to me about his drinking.
I DO UNDERSTAND however, that as the disease progresses and consequences mount, there's a very real possibility he may become dishonest with me. But we're not there yet.
You're right. I do want to believe things will get better. I know rationally that they probably won't. The reason I put myself in therapy was to reconcile these two differences so I could develop the internal strength to move on with my own life and mourn this incredibly deep and painful loss with courage.
I chose TinyBear -- at first -- because I thought it was a name that he wouldn't recognize in case he Google searched any of my other unique nicknames I normally use. It was a silly thought, really, cause he rarely Googles anything like that. But now, to me, it represents my love and affection for him -- which wasn't a mistake -- and reminds me that even when days are bad, there's a man who deserves to be loved hidden under this disease. He's as deserving of love as the tiny bear in my profile picture, and the tragedy is that I may not be able to give him that in the future, because of this thing that neither of us have any power over, alcohol.
Thanks mle-sober, for your thoughts. Even if I didn't always agree with your line of questioning, you gave me very valuable things to think about and I am deeply appreciative.
TinyBear
One of my big problems so far wtih committing to going to Al-Anon is that I feel like a lot of people in Al-Anon are also working through issues with codependency, which is totally understandable. But I worry that in Al-Anon and on this message board, people are going to nudge me towards exploring that part of their issue, when I don't believe I have codependency issues. And you know, it's like a catch-22 if I "deny" being codependent, right? So even talking about that is fraught.
But looking honestly within myself, I have been wrestling with this issue in my heart for the last week. Maybe I am codependent and need to deal with my enabling behaviors, etc. and am in crazy-deep denial?!? Could that be the case?
Originally Posted by mle-sober
But I wonder at the ways in which you enable him.
- I don't buy him alcohol or lend him money for alcohol.
- I don't help him with his finances
- I don't engage with him when he's drunk
- I talk to him frankly about the consequences his drinking has for me when he's sober
- I don't make threats I won't follow through on.
- I do set boundaries about certain behaviors (for example, I will not tolerate driving while drunk -- I set a rule when we bought our car, saying that if I ever told him I didn't want him to drive, he wouldn't. He respected my request. We've never had an issue. He does not try to drive when he's drinking, and either leaves the car parked and takes a taxi, or I choose to drive.)
- Unless I'm afraid for his, or my safety in a significant way (i.e., near the edge of a building, or near broken glass...) I let him fall on his face if he can't stand up, the bruises are his own consequences. Maybe I should let him fall all the time, but I am conflicted about safety.
- I let him act out in embarrassing ways in public. He's messed up prospective jobs, insulted friends, and done some incredibly stupid things while drunk. I hardly care, even if I'm out with him. I stand back and let him take the fallout. If he can't remember all the embarrassing things he did the night before, I calmly explain those events to him when he's sober.
- I do not hide his alcoholism from our friends, I am very frank with his friends and my friends about his drinking, in a matter-of-fact manner.
- I don't argue or plead with him to stop drinking. I never have. I have, on occasions when he's sober, explained my concerns and likely consequences.
- I never lie, cover up or help him when he's drunk or hungover. (Wait, I do sometimes bring him a bottle of water in the morning when he's in bed (he drinks every night). But some mornings he brings me things from the kitchen, too. Not sure if that's enabling.)
- I have reduced my own drinking around him, and am considering stopping altogether. I do have a few glasses of wine a week, and I've been actively reviewing what effect my behavior in that regard may be having.
I don't know what all that adds up to. Maybe you guys with more experience in recovery can chime in, but I did ask my therapist about this, this week. She's very experienced in addiction and codependency issues and looked me straight in the eye and said, "you're not a codependent person. You and [your ABH] have issues, but what's happened here is that you fell deeply in love with an alcoholic who will probably never stop drinking. And that's tragic."
And that's tragic -- those words have stuck with me longer and rung in my head louder than anything I've heard on the subject so far. This isn't my fault, and god knows, it isn't my ABH's fault. This is not about blame. This is about a disease and a tragedy, at least in my mind.
Originally Posted by mle-sober
How do you know he's actually going to therapy?
I DO UNDERSTAND however, that as the disease progresses and consequences mount, there's a very real possibility he may become dishonest with me. But we're not there yet.
Originally Posted by mle-sober
It just sounds like you are minimizing the extent of his disease because you want to believe he will get better, things will improve...
I'm glad you don't think that you're tiny. But kind of interesting you used his name instead of yours.....
Thanks mle-sober, for your thoughts. Even if I didn't always agree with your line of questioning, you gave me very valuable things to think about and I am deeply appreciative.
TinyBear
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Originally Posted by Reminder
Hi Tiny:
You say that he likes therapy. That's a plus because many A's don't like it. What does his therapist say to you about his drinking?
Peace.
You say that he likes therapy. That's a plus because many A's don't like it. What does his therapist say to you about his drinking?
Peace.
I don't talk to his therapist. It's his private space to work out his stuff. I have my private space, too. My therapist and his therapist do work together in consultation, but it's not part of the plan for us to be involved in therapy together. We both have to take care of ourselves, you know?
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Originally Posted by embraced2000
i learned through al-anon, that when i felt angry about my situation with my xah, it was really a form of fear. fear of leaving, fear of making it all on my own, fear of the loss of my expectations of him, fear of the loss of him from my life....couldn't begin to imagine being without the few and far between good moments....fear of losing what was familiar to me.......and what was familiar to me was the chaos.
Originally Posted by embraced2000
alcoholism only progresses unless they truly embrace recovery. stats show that only 1 in 10 make it. my relationship started so sweetly, the man of my life, the husband i had ) was directed right at me. i became very, very sick in my mind, body, and spirit. i wanted to die, in the end. and i tried to.
i had always been a very strong, independant person.....a pillar of the community...a shaker and a mover for some very prominent organizations. i was up and coming on the corporate level.
after the smoke cleared and i regained my sanitiy, i had lost everything. now, my only desire is to stock shelves somewhere for a living. it's all i could possibly handle right now.
best of everything to you, and i pray for recovery for your b/f, but mostly for you.
i had always been a very strong, independant person.....a pillar of the community...a shaker and a mover for some very prominent organizations. i was up and coming on the corporate level.
after the smoke cleared and i regained my sanitiy, i had lost everything. now, my only desire is to stock shelves somewhere for a living. it's all i could possibly handle right now.
best of everything to you, and i pray for recovery for your b/f, but mostly for you.
Thanks bunches,
TB
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by prodigal
From what I'm reading, you've been in therapy about seven months. At this point, do you think you could share some of the reasons, both good or bad, that you're still with him.
- He's my best friend
- He's the only person in my life who I really trust to take care of me.
- He is brilliant, a writer, and encourages me to take all the right risks in my career (we're both journalists)
- We have lots of fun together.
- He is the only man I've ever dated who wasn't intimidated by my intelligence. (I don't mean to sound like an ass! But I've had problems with guys not dealing well with me on this, and it's so painfully alienating and lonely when people don't like you for something you grew up thinking was a good quality....)
- We have a positive and loving sexual relationship
- He has made me comfortable being myself 100% around him.
- I am having a hard time letting go of this image: he's holding my hand in the delivery room when my first child is born. I am fragile and he is there to take care of me.
- He's serious, a strong man, but also sweet and affectionate with me.
- He can talk to anyone, no matter how famous or important, and make them laugh or notice him
- We've worked through SO MANY past issues -- we've sorted out money issues and his anger issues and so many past problems we've courageously BEATEN, it feels terrible to abandon him after we've made so much other progress
- We have a tight circle of friends, that we met together. The bottom will fall out of my social world if/when I leave. (yes, I'm working on making my own friends, but our mutual friends are pretty great and I know if we split, he'll end up "keeping" them)
- We have the greatest "how we met" story and I'm afraid of losing that.
- We had the most amazing first kiss and I'm afraid of losing that.
- It will break my heart to see him dating another person.
- He plans great excursions and trips for us, things I might never do on my own
- I met him when I was 27. I am 31 now and am afraid that I might have wasted some pretty critical time. I do want to be married and have a family, and I'm scared that those things won't happen for me if/when I leave.
- I waited out a yearlong depression he went through, and don't want to feel that time was wasted.
- We have a beautiful home together, not fancy, just warm and inviting and stable after years of both of us moving around like nomads with roommates and multiple apartments and multiple cities.
- He has shown a capacity for surprising changes (he stopped using drugs when I asked him two years ago, he went to therapy when I issued an ultimatum, he's stopped being angry and aggressive with me after I made clear that was a major issue).
- He had a terrible childhood, it makes me cry to think about all the horrible things that happened to him, and I don't want to abandon him. (my therapist and I are working on this one)
- He deserves unconditional love. If I'm not around, I'm afraid he won't have that in his life. (should probably talk to the therapist about that one)
Originally Posted by prodigal
I'm glad he's not ranting and raving any longer. However, he's still getting drunk. Genuine change for an addict is to quit drinking and work a program. He appears to be doing neither. Perhaps you are giving him more credit than is due in order to accept the unacceptable and gloss it over..... I think therapy is a good thing. I believe the addict in your life needs more than therapy has to offer. .... He's an active addict. He's appeasing you.
Thanks, Prodigal, for asking such thoughtful questions. It really has helped me to think about this stuff.
Tiny Bear
Last edited by TinyBear; 12-07-2008 at 12:46 AM.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 517
Reading your story uncannily reminds me of my own - even your man sounds a lot like mine! I can 100% relate to what you are saying and I have the same fears of being without him. But I have also come to realize that I don't need him to yell, be abusive, or drunk every day to be drained by this situation.
He has recently moved out for work-related reasons and I am amazed by how much calmer I am and how much better my work is going. He is extremely supportive of my career and proud of me and he would be heartbroken to hear that he is harming it, but he is.
His drinking (and smoking pot) is the only thing that keeps this relationship from being really good, but this only thing creeps into everything and first of all, we have lost a lot of togetherness. I am in a relationship in which I feel lonely and miss my partner.
I am currently very angry at him and took a step back, which made me realize that of all things I need in my life, a peaceful environment is most essential. I travel a lot and I have a work schedule that is far from regular, so I need a calm and comforting place to come home to. I have always loved the feeling that he was here and happy for me to be here and to be together was like home.
But then home was invaded by the unpredictability of addiction and I never knew how the day would end. Now that we live apart, I have realized how bad that really was for my health, my sanity, my work, etc. While I was in it, I was bothered by concrete things like a passed out drunk in the middle of the living room, cleaning up vomit, having to save his life by preventing him from choking to death and lots of other fun things, but I never realized that this situation is like some sort of toxic dust that is always there even when things seem ok because you can never be sure. I now know I cannot live with that.
He has until the end of the year to decide whether or not he is getting help, otherwise I have to end this. I need my calm and stable home back and he cannot help me to rebuild it as long as he does not stop drinking. I am lucky in that I know it won't be an ugly break-up.
Whatever you decide, good luck! Being angry is good. I am angry and it helps me to shove aside all the empathy and to look at the situation like an outsider would. What I wrote is just to share how I lived with a sort of silent toxicity for a while without even realizing its impact.
He has recently moved out for work-related reasons and I am amazed by how much calmer I am and how much better my work is going. He is extremely supportive of my career and proud of me and he would be heartbroken to hear that he is harming it, but he is.
His drinking (and smoking pot) is the only thing that keeps this relationship from being really good, but this only thing creeps into everything and first of all, we have lost a lot of togetherness. I am in a relationship in which I feel lonely and miss my partner.
I am currently very angry at him and took a step back, which made me realize that of all things I need in my life, a peaceful environment is most essential. I travel a lot and I have a work schedule that is far from regular, so I need a calm and comforting place to come home to. I have always loved the feeling that he was here and happy for me to be here and to be together was like home.
But then home was invaded by the unpredictability of addiction and I never knew how the day would end. Now that we live apart, I have realized how bad that really was for my health, my sanity, my work, etc. While I was in it, I was bothered by concrete things like a passed out drunk in the middle of the living room, cleaning up vomit, having to save his life by preventing him from choking to death and lots of other fun things, but I never realized that this situation is like some sort of toxic dust that is always there even when things seem ok because you can never be sure. I now know I cannot live with that.
He has until the end of the year to decide whether or not he is getting help, otherwise I have to end this. I need my calm and stable home back and he cannot help me to rebuild it as long as he does not stop drinking. I am lucky in that I know it won't be an ugly break-up.
Whatever you decide, good luck! Being angry is good. I am angry and it helps me to shove aside all the empathy and to look at the situation like an outsider would. What I wrote is just to share how I lived with a sort of silent toxicity for a while without even realizing its impact.
mle-sober
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 1,243
Tiny Bear,
I know you're doing a lot of internal searching and thinking about your life right now. I feel for the pain you are in. And I feel for the pain your bf is in.
I don't really believe that this is a tragedy, pure and simple.
It's your story to tell after all, not mine, but tragedies happen when the main character(s) are brought down by superior forces or circumstances. Something beyond and above them.
Alcoholism is a treatable disease. It's frequently compared to diabetes. The way you are portraying your circumstances is that everything is out of your control. But it's not. Alcohholism is not a superior force. I've been to too many AA meetings and met too many amazing people who have fought it off to believe that. I myself have met that demon head-on.
I can understand why it feels like active alcoholism is a catastrophic force beyond you, because it's your bf who has the disease. And you can't make him seek out recovery. But not only can he make the brave choice to seek treatment, you can make the brave choice to refuse to live a life that is consumed by someone else's capitulation to a treatable disease.
Alcoholism FEELS like a tragedy but that is part of its "cunning and baffling" nature. In fact, it is much more of a factor in a long, drawn-out, exhausting drama. And all it takes if for the person who is the alcoholic to surrender to that fact and seek treatment. Or for the loved ones who are snared by the drama to decide to extricate themselves. And then, slowly, over time, alcoholism looses it's power to control the situation so intensely.
I do basically see how you can feel that you are not an enabler. And you make a convincing argument. Except for the part where you have to walk your bf to the bathroom sat 2am because he can't do it by himself. And the part where you are the permanent designated driver. And except for the part where he cries to you for almost an hour about being a trainwreck of a person and then by early evening he's drinking again. (What a waste of insight on his part. And what a waste of energy on your part.) Or the part where you continue to live with someone who's behavior is erractic, bizarre, and hurtful.
I'm sorry if the above paragraph sounds harsh. I just don't know how else to say it. You are posting here with such earnestness and truthfullness. I believe that you really do want to get feedback. I have nothing to gain from making you feel bad though and I really don't want to. You are already suffering enough.
I am sorry you are in such pain. And I'm sorry for the suffering of your bf too. I hope he finds recovery and the two of you live happily ever after.
- Emilie
I know you're doing a lot of internal searching and thinking about your life right now. I feel for the pain you are in. And I feel for the pain your bf is in.
I don't really believe that this is a tragedy, pure and simple.
It's your story to tell after all, not mine, but tragedies happen when the main character(s) are brought down by superior forces or circumstances. Something beyond and above them.
Alcoholism is a treatable disease. It's frequently compared to diabetes. The way you are portraying your circumstances is that everything is out of your control. But it's not. Alcohholism is not a superior force. I've been to too many AA meetings and met too many amazing people who have fought it off to believe that. I myself have met that demon head-on.
I can understand why it feels like active alcoholism is a catastrophic force beyond you, because it's your bf who has the disease. And you can't make him seek out recovery. But not only can he make the brave choice to seek treatment, you can make the brave choice to refuse to live a life that is consumed by someone else's capitulation to a treatable disease.
Alcoholism FEELS like a tragedy but that is part of its "cunning and baffling" nature. In fact, it is much more of a factor in a long, drawn-out, exhausting drama. And all it takes if for the person who is the alcoholic to surrender to that fact and seek treatment. Or for the loved ones who are snared by the drama to decide to extricate themselves. And then, slowly, over time, alcoholism looses it's power to control the situation so intensely.
I do basically see how you can feel that you are not an enabler. And you make a convincing argument. Except for the part where you have to walk your bf to the bathroom sat 2am because he can't do it by himself. And the part where you are the permanent designated driver. And except for the part where he cries to you for almost an hour about being a trainwreck of a person and then by early evening he's drinking again. (What a waste of insight on his part. And what a waste of energy on your part.) Or the part where you continue to live with someone who's behavior is erractic, bizarre, and hurtful.
I'm sorry if the above paragraph sounds harsh. I just don't know how else to say it. You are posting here with such earnestness and truthfullness. I believe that you really do want to get feedback. I have nothing to gain from making you feel bad though and I really don't want to. You are already suffering enough.
I am sorry you are in such pain. And I'm sorry for the suffering of your bf too. I hope he finds recovery and the two of you live happily ever after.
- Emilie
Yield beautiful changes
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: A home filled with love
Posts: 1,697
Originally Posted by TinyBear
I am now working on the next struggle -- how to communicate that the alcoholism is truly, sincerely unacceptable to me -- in a way that I can stand firm behind.
I knew that my husband - beautiful, kind, intelligent, and accepting as he was - was not willing to stop drinking. We had spoken about it many times. We had argued and agreed and gone around in circles.
And always he drank.
It took me while to get to the point that my husband's alcoholism was truly, sincerely unacceptable to me, because I knew, deep down, that if I was to say that his alcoholism was unacceptable to me, I was also saying that he was unacceptable to me. The alcoholism was part of the deal - I couldn't have him without it. I tried.
When I knew that I couldn't deal with it, I knew that I couldn't deal with him.
Accepting that fact brought me pain - and freedom.
I'm thinking of you tonight, TinyBear.
Take care.
-TC
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