I put me first

Old 08-28-2021, 07:00 AM
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I put me first

Good morning all,

Writing from the cabin, I moved some of my stuff yesterday after telling my AH that I was leaving and contacting a lawyer Monday about separation. He was floored, he wants me to wait until we've had a chance to work on things. He has changed his mind he does have a problem and he does need help but not AA not rehab, he will be accountable to a friend/ pastor of his choosing. He said he hasn't had a drink and admits he has "alcohol use disorder" and his mood will improve after he gets through the withdrawal stage. I let him talk and have his say, and acknowledged that this is a relatively new concept for him but reminded him that I have been dealing with the issue of his drinking for many years and that time has run out. I told him my head was starting to hurt due to the stress of the conversation it was lengthy, (my jaw was clenched to keep from reacting) He thought it was a just an excuse. And I said bye. Of course I didn't sleep well. It will take time to get to the peace I am seeking, I knew it wouldn't happen immediately, but this was the first step. I will stay firm in putting me first for the first time in 20+ years. My parents, my Dad (not sure about my Mom she remains neutral) aren't supportive but I have 2 wonderful sisters who are supportive and have been in similar situations (something to wonder about at a later date that we all chose partners that abuse alcohol). Telling the kids will be awful but necessary. I am leaving it up to him to decide what he wants to say. It will become more difficult as time goes on but I comfortable telling them we are separating due to his drinking, my health or we aren't getting along- all are true.

He still is trying to come up with other reasons for my headaches that are not related to him or his drinking. Not taking responsibility for his actions, blaming others- just shows me he is still in addict thought process. Which is to be expected without help but if he has done the research and made all these great strides then he should at least start to realize his actions have consequences and he should take responsibility for them. Something I tried to instill in the kids at a very young age. When you do wrong- own it and apologize and try not to do it again.



Today is a new day. I am cleaning my new space and getting situated. I will need to get groceries and figure out a way to get the grass cut. The mice have been visiting, mice traps are on the list too. He is going to deliver a dryer we told my Aunt she could have before all this happened. I will have make sure he knows he can't just pop by anytime he feels like it. Boundaries.
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Old 08-28-2021, 07:16 AM
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Sending you a warm welcome to your new home. I hope you find peace, quiet and happiness there.

Well done on not getting hooked in by AH's manipulations.
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Old 08-28-2021, 08:20 AM
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This is so great to hear, GoldenDog. After many years of putting up with his dysfunctional behavior, you are finally putting yourself first. He has a lot of work to do - to get sober, begin working on his recovery and spiritual growth, and learning to live without dependence on alcohol. It's a lot. I hope you continue to put your own emotional and physical health first.
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Old 08-28-2021, 09:08 AM
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Good for you! You definitely have to put your health first. Before I left my XAH I experienced severe bouts of vertigo. Some of the episodes would keep me down for three days at a time. It was awful. Once I made up my mind and took steps for my own self care I just kept marching forward and it got easier every time I had to deal with the XAH. You can do this, just keep putting yourself first. One foot in front of the other, and remember one day at a time. And probably most important is to go easy on yourself. Hugs to you!
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Old 08-28-2021, 09:51 AM
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GoldenDog.....Congrats on how well you handled the conversation with him! I know that wasn't easy.
It is sooo important for you to create an :"oasis" of peace and calm, away from the center of the chaos (your cabin).
While there may be some days that feel more bumpy than others---as time goes on, you will begin to feel stronger at your core.

Keep letting us know how things are going along for you....because we care, and because there are lots of others who read, here, and your story will be a great help for them.
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Old 08-28-2021, 09:57 AM
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GoldenDog.......I am giving you the following link to an article from our Library of great articles, which I think will be of great interest and help to you, right now. I think it is a pretty good yardstick.

10 Ways to Tell When an Addict or Alcoholic is Full of Crap - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information (10 Ways to Tell When an Addict or Alcoholic is Full of Crap)
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Old 08-28-2021, 12:44 PM
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Thank you Dandylion for the article I missed that one its a good one. I will re-read it often I'm sure. And thank you everyone for the words of support! I find I go back the the best of and classic reading every so often to re-read posts that I need. The merry go round called denial is one that comes to mind for me. It really hit home for me.
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Old 08-29-2021, 06:05 AM
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I'd like to join the others here in saying how glad I am that you stuck to your guns and weren't pulled in by his "sudden insight."

I'm sure you know there will be hard days sometimes, down the road, and you might second guess yourself. Just like dawn follows night, though, you'll make it through and walk in the light again. Best wishes, GoldenDog. (As a dog lover, I picture a happy, grinning golden retriever when I read your name, and I know in time you'll feel that way for real.)

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Old 08-29-2021, 08:22 AM
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My golden made the move with me, she is my support. She has been my saving grace since we got her. She will need some puppy school soon but I wouldn't trade her for anything!
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Old 08-29-2021, 02:52 PM
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Golden, I'm so glad to read you took up the offer of the cabin. That will make all the difference to getting clarity for yourself and deciding what you want to do.

You sound strong, I'm sure this isn't easy. It's great you have your pup with you as well.

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Old 08-30-2021, 03:14 AM
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So happy for you Golden! I don't have a lot of words of wisdom but I am really happy for you for your strength, wisdom, resolve, and determination. I have not been in your exact position, but I've had to leave toxicity before and I know what that takes. You're doing great!
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Old 08-31-2021, 03:55 AM
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I met with the lawyer yesterday and started the process to file for separation. My AH husband wanted me to ask the lawyer some questions- like could he represent both of us to make it less expensive, and some other stuff since neither of us have any real knowledge of the process. After work I went home to discuss with him. I didn't leave a scrap of doubt that this is what I'm doing. I've paid the lawyer half the money from money I had set aside for a rainy day/emergency fund. My sisters will help me out if need be until I get back on my feet.



I explained the process of what happens now that I filed for separation to my AH including alimony. He is not pleased. All he sees is that he is now having to pay me money. I attempted to explain alimony and division of property as it was explained to me. He eventually determined he should probably seek out his own counsel, yup... I pushed to go ahead and tell the kids, he had been delaying on this. I really think he thought he could still convince me to change my mind.



We were able to meet the kids for dinner, it was outdoor seating and no one was eating outside so we had some privacy. My daughter had already picked up on changes in our relationship and was trying to get me to tell her before we got there. (Either a little investigator/ too involved/ may have been told before hand by someone other than me- I'm not sure which)

My AH indicated he wouldn't start the conversation, no surprise there. He hasn't been in charge of the family ever. I told them I filed for separation, my daughter immediately went on the offensive. I don't even remember everything she asked. But it was mean and accusatory- much like her father is. I answered what was appropriate honestly and if it couldn't be answered I said that it was something between her father and I and she didn't need to be a part of that (meaning he's an alcoholic and I can't be married to him anymore). Her father answered once and said "that he tried".

I let that slide until we got in the car and calmly reminded him of what he said in front of the kids and that it wasn't appropriate since it made me look like I hadn't tried and that he didn't want to start the blame game.

My son was wonderful, I had no idea all these years he had been quietly observing and learning to be open minded and more compassionate than I ever realized, he's an engineering major so thats a big thing for engineers. He interrupted his sister to remind her that people need to be happy, he explained that divorce at this stage in life isn't all that uncommon. He didn't seem surprised by this. I think he understands the bigger picture more than I realized, I thought he was more self absorbed and in his own world. He tried to understand why my headaches and stress has been a problem but the other 2 kept interrupting. With the medication I’m on I struggle to stay on topic anyway, I didn't think about going back to what he asked until just now. I will reach out to him to see if he wants/needs clarification. He probably won’t, but I want to make sure his question was answered. He defended me, no one has defended me ever that I can remember, that brings tears to my eyes as I type it.

My AH and I talked on the way home about what we need to do to the house to get it ready to list it. It was cordial, he is upset, he hates to lose. And part of him sees it as losing, the salesman can't stand to lose the big sale, not mention the money he earned that will have to go to me. I get it.



My daughter reached out to me when I got home and she didn't want to talk but she would text. I don't know why, maybe she was still too upset to talk? She kept asking questions I wouldn't answer because they required painting her Dad in a negative light. She knows he's an alcoholic, she knows he can be a miserable controlling person to be around but I'm not going to bash him to her. So I put it in writing that there are details I won't discuss with her and if she has specific questions she can sit down with us and see if we can answer them together, but that some things are better left alone or unsaid. I tried to reassure her that we are all going about our normal routines and she should too- go to class, study be a college kid. School is your priority and we will continue to make sure you can go to school, that won't change. Things may be different but they will be ok. She suggested we, AH & I go to a therapist, there again that's between her Dad and I. I said I'm not blowing you off but things have been discussed and choices made for a reason and I can't get into those reasons. Some things just aren't for me to say. (I wont go to therapy with an alcoholic who isn't in recovery. She then suggested therapy for us. Ok- why? what do you want to get out of therapy? I feel like this is her roommate talking but ok…She said “Just someone to talk to that isn't emotionally involved”. (I think it's a ploy to get her Dad & I into therapy together but we'll see) We ended with don't let the bed bugs bite, sweet dreams, I love you- I used to tell her that every night before bed. I worry she has some codependent characteristics, and her Dad will manipulate every one of them if she isn't careful. Maybe a good therapist with addiction knowledge would be a good idea?



I am at peace with this. I don't like that the kids are affected obviously but in time they will understand and know that it was for the best. There is a small sliver of doubt that the medications I take are masking some of the raw emotion and making this easier but when talking to my sisters they say no. That they knew when they had had enough and when they were done they were done and nothing was going to change that.



I took the dog with me, she was so happy to see the kids, she couldn't decide which one she wonted to love on first or the most. She kept running from one to the other, tail wagging 90 mph. they both had smiles ear to ear, she definitely did her part in making them feel loved and cherished for a few moments. Maybe I have a comfort dog on my hands, the jumping part would have to be worked on but she loves people and making them happy.



Thanks all, I will keep posting as things progress. It’s a process and it’s not over by any means. I told my AH that, we need to be friendly and I don't hate him, I really don't. I am a little more than indifferent because he is the father of my kids and I will need to remain in contact. I want him to succeed in his recovery whatever that looks like.
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Old 08-31-2021, 07:12 AM
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GoldenDog....I am glad to hear that you met with a lawyer and seem to be clear on what direction that you want/need to take.

I have a couple of suggestions for your consideration....regarding the kids.
I suggest that they would benefit from the organization "Adult Children of Alcoholics" (and dysfunctional families). They certainly qualify. All kids that have been raised in a home with alcoholism are affected, some way---and, they can carry those affects into their own adult relationships.
At least, you could gift them the literature of that group. You can get their "Big Book" and their other literature in the book section of amazon.com.
You might benefit from reading it yourself....lol.

I agree with you about being careful about not bashing their father. I was careful about that with my childrens' father, after I divorced him (my first husband). I often had to bite my tongue that it is surprising that it didn't bleed. My three children were very small, though.
However, I do think that, especially, since your children are young adults---it is acceptable to make some statements of objective fact without bashing your husband as a person or even throwing blame.
They already know that he is an alcoholic. That is not any news to them. But, the dynamics of alcoholism may not be completely clear to them.
I suggest that it is o.k. to point out to them-----"Alcoholism is very destructive to relationships--all relationships---even to their loved ones. This family is no exception. It has come to the point that separation has become necessary" I am sorry that it has come to this and I understand how hard this change is for all of us."

I think t is good that they are still talking to you. I imagine that they will probably express an amount of anger and pain. I suggest that it is vey important to not try to "make it feel better" for them. I kind of think that it is intuitive for us parents to try to do that. I think it should be resisted to try to sugarcoat anything or tie it up in a nice bow.
There is often a lot of confusion with secrecy and "lies" in alcoholic families---and the kids benefit m ore from the straight forward truth than brushing anything under the rug.
This way they can develop more trust. One of the big dynamics that result from alcoholic homes is that the kids develop a lack of general trust.
(I am not suggesting that every gory personal detail needs to be described).


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Old 08-31-2021, 09:22 AM
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You're doing so well GoldenDog! Great approach and recap. I second Dandylion's suggestions that it wouldn't hurt to let the kids know that a big part of the reason is the alcoholism. Because kids usually think the behaviors they observe growing up are normal, they will have a blindspot to it, but it will still affect them. Hence, your daughter suggesting therapy at this point.. because what's the problem? It must be mom.. It does seem as if your son has some perspective on it though.

I'm not suggesting their were beatings and extreme events, although some of it did sound pretty bad (the parties, nights out, etc), but it is the subtle things that happen in families where addiction is present. The lack of honest communication and personality changes (when drinking), the often chaotic environment, lack of or strained physical and emotional intimacy between the couple, the attempts to make everything appear "normal" to others outside the family unit, and the compensatory coping behaviors used by the non drinking spouse (you), who has to hold down the fort, do the planning and organizing, etc.

I had no idea how badly my family upbringing of chaos,, personal loss. alcoholic/absent dad and overly strict and religious mom affected me until 10 years ago, when I was first told about ACOA. It was an epiphany. Suddenly, so many of my unhealthy relationships and other personality issues such as codependency and drinking to control my emotions had an explanation. I have many of the ACOA common traits. So yes, I think some gentle and well-considered explanations, and perhaps an introduction to their literature or a meeting at some point (if necessary) would be in order. Might keep them from making bad decisions and choices later in life.
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Old 08-31-2021, 09:57 AM
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The underlying feeling I'm getting from your recap is subtle, but it's there -- there is a codependency around being there for family no matter what. It is so commendable that you are striving to say nothing negative about AH. I'm happy that your son seems supportive. I would echo what others have said, that now is a good time to start AlAnon / ACOA resources to help work through issues with and education around alcoholism and the effects on children that have grown up in families with alcoholism present.

There is nothing wrong about disclosing that the alcholism has caused unsolvable problems, ones that won't be solved by therapy. Your daughter seems to be expecting you to step into codie mode to hold the family together and bite the bullet on your own feelings and needs. This is such devastating programming, because eventually your children will need healthy relationship skills, and this is a slippery slope for adult children of alcoholics.
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Old 08-31-2021, 10:26 AM
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Thank you for the wise counsel! I am still in protect mode for the kids and the AH without realizing it. I am so glad I put myself on here for the objective observations. It will take me a minute to get used to the idea of admitting and saying to them that he is an alcoholic, I didn't say it out loud until recently. I do feel a responsibility to let him know that we will have those conversations and when they ask I won't sugarcoat it or sidestep it anymore. He only just admitted to my daughter last night after I left for the cabin that he made mistakes that have caused problems. He was willing to let me shoulder all the blame until I confronted him. Yes, I have tried to hold everything together and keep the "family" unit presentable and she is upset with me for not continuing that. I have asked my lawyer if he has resources for therapy, he asked me if I wanted counseling and I had said no. He has extensive knowledge in addiction, I haven't asked why or how but he knows more that the standard resources. We have had several side bar clinical conversations off the clock that indicate to me he has had a family member or loved one with addiction issues. I do want to help the kids navigate this before they are out on their own, we still have good insurance and should be able to get some therapy. Covering addiction up and pretending it didn't happen isn't good. I know that and it isn't a good example and not my intent but I can see how it falls back into the old pattern. Thank you! I needed all of your responses

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Old 08-31-2021, 11:00 AM
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GoldenDog, I think you handled the situation so well, getting everyone together and having a civil talk is a great start, but as you say, it's a process.

Yes, children of alcoholics have their own things to unwind, it's not always easy but it can be done. I really like the idea of introducing them to the literature.

While your Daughter may have seen the dynamic and know that it's far from healthy/good for anyone, it was her norm growing up so it probably doesn't seem all that insurmountable to her. Kind of like, if Dad could just curb being an ass when drinking, couldn't they work this out!?

Well no, you know that's not the case and so do I, but she may not be aware of it, yet. She may not realize that you can't - cannot - no way - have an actual great relationship (romantic or otherwise) with an alcoholic - period. If she did realize that, she wouldn't be suggesting counselling.

I agree with you and your Sisters, you are done with this. Yes, maybe the medications you are on are curbing some of the emotions for the moment, that doesn't mean it's not the right choice in fact maybe it allowed you to step back a bit and make these good decisions for yourself.

My Father was an alcoholic, I certainly never suggested counselling for my parents when my Mom told me she had moved out and was getting divorced, it seemed absolutely inevitable. Still, as an older teen, at that point, I didn't know about alcoholism and what it truly meant. I had always known my Father was an alcoholic and therefore drank too often and too much, but I didn't understand alcoholism and addiction. Sometimes people think because we witness it that we know about it, not really the case.

I also don't think it would be bashing to give them the facts, that he is an alcoholic, that it is his issue and there is nothing you can do about that, that the relationship is over and that you are finished living in an alcoholic household. Ask them to get informed about alcoholism, you may also want to refer your Daughter to an Al-Anon meeting so she can share her story and understand more.
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Old 09-06-2021, 06:46 AM
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Ugh, this is going to be a time of ups and downs for sure. AH appears to have hired a sleazy lawyer and I get the feeling he is trying to hide and manipulate retirement and stock. Maybe I’m just being paranoid, AH hasn’t told his family but he told his boss… he definitely is keeping tabs on who knows and wants to know who I’ve told we are separated. I’ve told no one but my family.
Today we are going to work on some projects at the house in order to get it ready to list it. I do so much better with no contact but it needs to be done. I can just feel the stress start to build.

Thank to those that have reached out to me privately, I will respond when I have reached the required number of posts.

I will make sure my lawyer is aware of my concerns I’m sure he knows all the tricks and is prepared to address them, he already has the account number last and balances on the important accounts but I just can help but get nervous that something underhanded will happen. It just feels like he went from let’s be fair to getting a lawyer that advertises aggressive results driven practice. I was and am still on let’s be fair. We have kids and I want us to be able to be friendly and cordial in the future.
Thanks for reading I’m just feeling a bit insecure I guess.
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Old 09-06-2021, 08:03 AM
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Goldendog.....I think it is normal to feel a bit nervous under these circu;mstances. I remember that I was the same during the time that I was divorcing the father of my three kids---my first husband. lol....thankfully, my lawyer held my hand and kept telling me to let him deal with it, In fact, there were many Sunday evenings that I was crying on the phone with him----and, he always talked me off the ledge. You see, my husband was a real jerk.
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Old 09-06-2021, 12:08 PM
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I think it's normal to be cautious, that's your gut feeling, you should go with it.

When someone who has been our SO "turns" on us (and I know that term is a bit strong) it can be really unsettling. In my first divorce, which was a very amiable divorce generally and quite fair, my exh said he would pay off our joint credit card when all was settled with the house. He then decided not to. In that case I don't think that was particularly unfair or anything, just an example of how feelings about what is fair/feelings of generosity can change.

Keep in close contact with your lawyer as this will certainly make you feel that all is in order and on track.

Hope the reno day is less stressful than you anticipate once you get started.




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