"alcoholics don't have relationships, they take hostages"

Old 06-23-2013, 07:58 AM
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I definitely felt like the sickness had taken me hostage, both his and mine. And I still don't feel fully free because when I think about him I feel really angry. It's been six months and it's definitely better-- I think about him less and less--but I carry the anger with me like those iron balls on chains around my ankles. I want to let it go, but I don't know how to.

The hostage can walk out the door anytime she wants to, but the door isn't always that easy to find.
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:10 AM
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I totally felt like a hostage with my exAGF. But it was my choice, I know. I did volunteer for it. And it did feel like a test almost every time, a test to see whether I had the strength to say no or give in to the weak justification to think things would be different and this time would be the magic time where she'd finally change into this picture i'd built up in my head. Nothing ever did change though.
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Old 11-23-2018, 06:53 PM
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In my family when the addict/alcoholic says the words "I love you" expecting it in return, we are taken hostage. What it really means is that not only are we now obligated to give them more money but now we also have to accept their dysfunctional behavior including drugs and alcohol. This just blows my mind and I am done with it. I can't say I love you to them and don't want to. I feel guilt and anger.
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Old 11-24-2018, 01:28 AM
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Many thanks for the bumping of this thread today. Just what I needed to read in this moment.

I am both an A and a codie. Took me years in my recovery programs to understand that is possible to be both.
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Old 11-24-2018, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by PeacefulWater12 View Post

I am both an A and a codie. Took me years in my recovery programs to understand that is possible to be both.
I am coming to see that every A is a codie. Deep down, there's no other reason to be an A.

I also needed this thread today. Re-affirms for me how I willingly stay in a relationship in which I am not heard. AlAnon keeps showing me how everything is my choice.
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Old 11-24-2018, 05:17 AM
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I agree that there are willing hostages, to a certain degree, but that belies the changes that happen in your brain when you are taken hostage and start to change. The reason that hostages develop Stockholm Syndrome is because identification with the hostage taker is necessary in order for the hostage to remain safe. In certain very dangerous situations where the person in danger has no possible way of escape, where the person is exposed to repeated trauma, sometimes the brain will shut down its "fight" response and activate a "flight" response that mainly involves the hostage's imagination: this is where dissociation comes into play... or to a lesser degree, delusion. This is why codependents lie to themselves (and others) in order to keep their relationships going. The possibility that they are in situations that might be too dangerous for their mental health or physical safety is so terrible, they focus instead on trying to "manage" the situation.

I spent so long in my relationship fantasizing about being free. I felt guilty for having these thoughts because I existed in a structure that supported the idea that the addict was someone that "needed help". I was not the only one reinforcing my delusions -- he had recruited people who were easy to manipulate into unwittingly colluding with him. It is simplistic to say that he did this out of malice, but the fear of not being high was so strong, the fear of being sober and facing the truth of his personal traumas was so strong in him that he clung selfishly to drugs the way a newborn clings to the comfort and safety of his mother's breast. In an adult, this behavior is selfish and some addicts are abusive, since the root of abusive behavior is an incredible sense of self-entitlement and irresponsibility. The addict is in thrall to his DOC... and this is not responsible either to himself/herself or to others.

Not all relationships with addicts are abusive. Some are. In those cases, willingness to stay is more of a choice.

So I 100% agree that addicts take hostages. The first hostage they take is themselves. The second is you, their friend, their family, their lover.

I think there are "willing" hostages, because we willingly enter into situations with compassion, thinking that it's the right thing to do to help people we love... and it is right to help people we love -- in many cases, it is our commitment to them that makes us stay. But staying in a situation that is toxic helps no one. Leaving such a situation is also about a person's will: you need a strong will to deal with the judgement of being a divorcee, to deal with raising children alone, to deal with joint custody or visitation, to deal with living alone (particularly if you are older and lack a strong support network), to face the truth that someone you trusted for years has been lying for years, and to face the truth that your son or daughter or grandchild could be alone, in the cold, in a ditch, in an alcoholic coma... and the only power you have is the power of your belief in a just God. The only thing you need to join the codependent club is the ability to think another person's life could be more important than yours. Some argue that the ability to think this is a maternal instinct.

The only thing you need to get out of codependency is the willingness to believe that your life is worth more watching another person shatter theirs.

Our brains are plastic (so they say). You can be trained to fear leaving. You can also take a risk... and then spend years un-training what has been trained into you by fear. For a lot of women in abusive relationships, detachment is physically dangerous. It takes a strong will to decide that you would rather die alone than die at the hands of a black-out drunk who is supposed to love you.
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Old 11-24-2018, 06:19 AM
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I also totally agree with this statement and this is because of my own personal experience. My husband loved me so much but he was so confused and scared over my behavior. He had to live with someone he loved yet try and distance himself from what seemed like an inevitable train wreck. I know I felt utterly helpless at times but so did he. I have been sober since May 2018 and I am so grateful that he has regained his trust in our relationship. Not just for me but for his mental health as well.
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Old 11-24-2018, 04:09 PM
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OKatz nailed it.
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Old 11-24-2018, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BriarSkye View Post
In my family when the addict/alcoholic says the words "I love you" expecting it in return, we are taken hostage. What it really means is that not only are we now obligated to give them more money but now we also have to accept their dysfunctional behavior including drugs and alcohol. This just blows my mind and I am done with it. I can't say I love you to them and don't want to. I feel guilt and anger.
I told my ABF that I hate him. I hate the person he is when he is drunk , I want nothing to do with that type of person , I don't want a future with that person. ****** thing is that is really who he is and when he is sober and "nice" that ******* drunk is dying to come out and party. I have felt guilty as hell for saying "I hate you " and I know it stabs him in the gut. But the truth is i honestly hate him when he is drunk. And living together under these circumstances is like being held hostage. Absolutely.
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Old 11-24-2018, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by embraced2000 View Post
for me, it meant that i lived totallly revolving around his chaos, abuse, problems. it was like walking on eggshells all the time.....everything was about him and his reactions to any incident.

the more i tried to be a good mate, the worse everything became. i became invisible, with him becoming the bright, twisted shining light of the universe.....a very sick universe. which of course, as long as i was willing, dragged me right along on his coattails.
wow, can I ever relate to that statement “I became invisible”. That is exactly how I feel most of the time even though he is not drinking. He just let me have it tonight about what a terrible person I am and how much he hates me. Now he has to work on himself and take care of himself. That just would be a laugh if it wasn’t so sad, he has been taking care of himself our entire marriage. :-(
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Old 11-24-2018, 06:37 PM
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The addict/alcoholic is abusing himself/herself with substance abuse
and is therefore abusing all of their relationships.
They are not honest because they cannot be honest about the most fundamental truth
of their addiction/alcoholism. They cannot love because they do not love themselves,
they cannot respect because they have no self respect.
Substance abuse is the ultimate betrayal of oneself
and is therefore a betrayal of every relationship.
Cater to them in any way is tantamount to being a willing hostage.
Either people are willing to get clean and sober and stay clean and sober or they're not. Period.
Many people clean and sober in recovery are proof that AA works.

Grateful to be clean and sober 8 years.
AA member 25 years.
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Old 11-24-2018, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BriarSkye View Post
The addict/alcoholic is abusing himself/herself with substance abuse
and is therefore abusing all of their relationships.
They are not honest because they cannot be honest about the most fundamental truth
of their addiction/alcoholism. They cannot love because they do not love themselves,
they cannot respect because they have no self respect.
Substance abuse is the ultimate betrayal of oneself
and is therefore a betrayal of every relationship.
Cater to them in any way is tantamount to being a willing hostage.
Either people are willing to get clean and sober and stay clean and sober or they're not. Period.
Many people clean and sober in recovery are proof that AA works.

Grateful to be clean and sober 8 years.
AA member 25 years.
I agree with this, thank you.
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Old 11-24-2018, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Sasha1972 View Post
OKatz nailed it.
Ahh, what I meant to say: "Not all relationships with addicts are abusive. Some are. In those cases, willingness to stay is more of a choice."

What I meant to say is that "in the cases where the addict is not abusive, the willingness to stay is more of a choice." There were some words missing. Sometimes abuse makes your choices seem invisible.

Guess I didn't nail it.
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Old 11-25-2018, 05:40 PM
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I am a survivor of Stockholm Syndrome as a "crime victim" myself.
Stockholm Syndrome dynamics can also be in any type of relationship.
As a survivor of a crime scenario involving captor and hostage
Stockholm Syndrome is a psychological survival mechanism.
The hostage is afraid for their life and may not even have
the psychological ability to process their predicament.
I didn't, I was in early sobriety.

Stockholm Syndrome definition

-Feelings of trust or affection felt in certain cases of kidnapping or hostage-taking by a victim toward a captor.

-These individuals are generally not harmed by their captors and may even be treated with kindness. A person who develops Stockholm syndrome often experiences symptoms of posttraumatic stress: nightmares, insomnia, flashbacks, a tendency to startle easily, confusion, and difficulty trusting others.
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Old 11-26-2018, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by splendra View Post
"alcoholics don't have relationships, they take hostages". Yea and

everyone i let go of has scratch marks all over them.
so so true!!!
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Old 11-26-2018, 03:58 PM
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Good share, thank you.
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Old 11-28-2018, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by BriarSkye View Post
The addict/alcoholic is abusing himself/herself with substance abuse
and is therefore abusing all of their relationships.
They are not honest because they cannot be honest about the most fundamental truth
of their addiction/alcoholism. They cannot love because they do not love themselves,
they cannot respect because they have no self respect.
Substance abuse is the ultimate betrayal of oneself
and is therefore a betrayal of every relationship.
Cater to them in any way is tantamount to being a willing hostage.
Either people are willing to get clean and sober and stay clean and sober or they're not. Period.
Many people clean and sober in recovery are proof that AA works.

Grateful to be clean and sober 8 years.
AA member 25 years.
This is awesome, thank you.
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Old 11-28-2018, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BriarSkye View Post
The addict/alcoholic is abusing himself/herself with substance abuse
and is therefore abusing all of their relationships.
They are not honest because they cannot be honest about the most fundamental truth
of their addiction/alcoholism. They cannot love because they do not love themselves,
they cannot respect because they have no self respect.
Substance abuse is the ultimate betrayal of oneself
and is therefore a betrayal of every relationship.
Cater to them in any way is tantamount to being a willing hostage.
Either people are willing to get clean and sober and stay clean and sober or they're not. Period.
Many people clean and sober in recovery are proof that AA works.

Grateful to be clean and sober 8 years.
AA member 25 years.
Wow! Thank you for this, never has something been written so very clearly. Only wish I had seen this so many years ago.
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Old 11-28-2018, 08:56 AM
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I felt like a hostage in that I was so afraid my XAH would commit suicide if I would leave. It literally held me physically and emotionally hostage. Not to mention what it was doing to our children.

It took me getting some real help myself to see that I could not allow that. Low and behold, he is still kicking today just fine, 4.5 years later.
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Old 11-28-2018, 09:26 AM
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Interesting quote. Sometimes the ex addict in my life, even only recently asked, if I thought I was part of a cult, or had Stockholm syndrome. He asked me this! I think he is far more abusive than I thought. Why would you ask these questions....
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