Someone please help me understand.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Louisburg Kansas
Posts: 3
Someone please help me understand.
I met my husband 8 years ago and we have been married for 5 years. He is 56 and I am 55. He is a 4th generation recovering alcoholic and has been sober for 13 years. His father has been sober for 30 years. We both had been divorced for quite some time, me 8 years, him 17 years. We each have one grown child. When we first met, he told me he was a recovering alcoholic and sober for 5 years. Not much more other than to relate some terrible things he had done while under the influence. He also was into heroin and meth during that time. He was a functioning alcoholic and a couple years after we met, he retired from a 30 year union job. We fell very much in love. His wedding present to me was a beautiful Tennessee Walking horse mare. We built a barn and now have 3 horses. He has 5 labs and participates in bird hunting trial competitions, which he has done for years before I met him. I used to go with him to the trials (3 - 4 days) before we had 3 horses, but I don't go anymore because someone has to take care of the horses. Our marriage has been good, but we went through a terrible argument period last year over mostly little things, all in trying to understand each other and get used to being married again. These arguments were usually excerbated by him, because no matter what I would say about my feelings he would immediately get defensive. Even when I was very calm and loving in telling him how I felt. Over the last 8 months, we had not had any arguments and he kept telling me how much he had learned about himself through me.
This past September, he seemed down and after days of my asking what is wrong, he told me that he had these intense feelings inside of wanting to be alone. Sometimes he wanted to jump out of his own skin. He said he had been feeling this way for a couple years. (What?) This started the first real truly honest conversation between us, with tough things being heard, but we were calm and talk every day still. Through all of this he said he loves me very much, but he wasn't good at relationships, and thought if he could make it with anyone it would be me. Although he did not tell me this in the beginning. Nothing about him indicated he was having any serious trouble with his recovery. By the way, I have never lived with or around an alcoholic in my life.
He has not been to an AA meeting since I have known him, although I suggested it several times. His answer was that all the people at AA meetings are losers. (What?) He didn't want to go there. So I suggested he see a therapist. He went one time to this therapist. He asked how he could love me so much but still want to be alone. The therapist said because I was invading his space. All I really know about the outcome is that the therapist told him if he didn't leave me now, he would just be delaying the inevitable. He came home, immediately came to me and started crying and said "I am so messed up." Since September we have made love more times than in the last 3 years. So his opening up to me like he did has brought us closer.
At this point, for him, he wants to split up. He said he was thinking while driving one day about how fun it would be to come over to my house and play scrabble one night, and then he would go home. (????) I think he wants a relationship with me still, but to live separately. The problem is he is not doing anything to try to help it get better, other than he is taking an anti-depressant to keep him from going off, which he started 3 weeks ago. He doesn't want to seem to do anything, or work at getting over this, no regular therapy, no reading anything, no searching for help on the Internet, like I have and found this forum.
I love this man so much, and I am dying inside at the thought of us being apart. He realizes that for us to split up will be quite expensive, but he is willing to take on that debt so he can be alone. I do not understand. To me, it must be that he really doesn't love me anymore, or it must be something I did. My life has been turned upside down since September, I am terrified, can't sleep and cry nearly every night.
Can someone please help me understand? Thank you so much.
This past September, he seemed down and after days of my asking what is wrong, he told me that he had these intense feelings inside of wanting to be alone. Sometimes he wanted to jump out of his own skin. He said he had been feeling this way for a couple years. (What?) This started the first real truly honest conversation between us, with tough things being heard, but we were calm and talk every day still. Through all of this he said he loves me very much, but he wasn't good at relationships, and thought if he could make it with anyone it would be me. Although he did not tell me this in the beginning. Nothing about him indicated he was having any serious trouble with his recovery. By the way, I have never lived with or around an alcoholic in my life.
He has not been to an AA meeting since I have known him, although I suggested it several times. His answer was that all the people at AA meetings are losers. (What?) He didn't want to go there. So I suggested he see a therapist. He went one time to this therapist. He asked how he could love me so much but still want to be alone. The therapist said because I was invading his space. All I really know about the outcome is that the therapist told him if he didn't leave me now, he would just be delaying the inevitable. He came home, immediately came to me and started crying and said "I am so messed up." Since September we have made love more times than in the last 3 years. So his opening up to me like he did has brought us closer.
At this point, for him, he wants to split up. He said he was thinking while driving one day about how fun it would be to come over to my house and play scrabble one night, and then he would go home. (????) I think he wants a relationship with me still, but to live separately. The problem is he is not doing anything to try to help it get better, other than he is taking an anti-depressant to keep him from going off, which he started 3 weeks ago. He doesn't want to seem to do anything, or work at getting over this, no regular therapy, no reading anything, no searching for help on the Internet, like I have and found this forum.
I love this man so much, and I am dying inside at the thought of us being apart. He realizes that for us to split up will be quite expensive, but he is willing to take on that debt so he can be alone. I do not understand. To me, it must be that he really doesn't love me anymore, or it must be something I did. My life has been turned upside down since September, I am terrified, can't sleep and cry nearly every night.
Can someone please help me understand? Thank you so much.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
My honest opinion? He doesn't sound like a recovering alcoholic. He sounds like a dry drunk to me.
The alcohol is only a symptom of deeper underlying issues.
If alcohol had been my only problem, then once I put the bottle down, I would have been fine.
That was not the case for me.
For a long time, alcohol was the solution to my problems, which was not being able to deal with my emotions, not being able to deal with life on life's terms.
Eventually, alcohol didn't work for me.
As far as AA being a bunch of losers, well this 'loser' has been sober for over 18 years now, is enrolled in college full-time now working towards a double degree, raised two daughters on my own for the most part, and I have a reasonably happy and very full life.
The alcohol is only a symptom of deeper underlying issues.
If alcohol had been my only problem, then once I put the bottle down, I would have been fine.
That was not the case for me.
For a long time, alcohol was the solution to my problems, which was not being able to deal with my emotions, not being able to deal with life on life's terms.
Eventually, alcohol didn't work for me.
As far as AA being a bunch of losers, well this 'loser' has been sober for over 18 years now, is enrolled in college full-time now working towards a double degree, raised two daughters on my own for the most part, and I have a reasonably happy and very full life.
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
I'm so sorry you're suffering.
It's sounds like he's deeply unhappy about something, and is having fantasies about the nice freedoms and lack of responsibility that come with being single again. What a shame. Have you two considered couples counseling to find out what's truly going on in his head? Would he go?
It's sounds like he's deeply unhappy about something, and is having fantasies about the nice freedoms and lack of responsibility that come with being single again. What a shame. Have you two considered couples counseling to find out what's truly going on in his head? Would he go?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Welcome to SR
I found when I got here both the "stickies" here and in the "relationship" forum very helpful to me, as well as reading other peoples posts.
I am not "qualified" to either "diagnose" or "judge" either of you, but what was helpful for me, was to start looking at myself and looking for the tools to do so, which I found here, in therapy, in alanon, in AA actually, and by "working the steps"
Years ago my girlfriend left me, and I went crying to my sponsor, and what he told me was her decision had nothing to do with me, she was doing what she needed to do in order to take care of herself.
It took me over ten years to understand that statement.
He is trying to take care of himself, whatever that looks like, however unskilled that appears to be, I'd like to give you a HUGE hug, welcome you here, and let you know that it's OK to start taking care of yourself, whatever that looks like, for me, it started by bringing the focus on me and my recovery and making decisions based on that, not on "her".
I found when I got here both the "stickies" here and in the "relationship" forum very helpful to me, as well as reading other peoples posts.
I am not "qualified" to either "diagnose" or "judge" either of you, but what was helpful for me, was to start looking at myself and looking for the tools to do so, which I found here, in therapy, in alanon, in AA actually, and by "working the steps"
Years ago my girlfriend left me, and I went crying to my sponsor, and what he told me was her decision had nothing to do with me, she was doing what she needed to do in order to take care of herself.
It took me over ten years to understand that statement.
He is trying to take care of himself, whatever that looks like, however unskilled that appears to be, I'd like to give you a HUGE hug, welcome you here, and let you know that it's OK to start taking care of yourself, whatever that looks like, for me, it started by bringing the focus on me and my recovery and making decisions based on that, not on "her".
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Louisburg Kansas
Posts: 3
Thank you, thank you for the responses. And thank you for the hug, Ago. Tonight we talked and he said he would go with me to couples counseling. All he knows is that he has this overpowering feeling of wanting to be alone. I had plans last night, and left before he got home. He told me tonight how great he felt being alone. He went on to explain that if dirty dishes were on the counter, he wanted to be the one who made them dirty and left them there. If something was cleaned, he wanted it to be because he cleaned it, not someone else. I cannot relate to that. I can't begin to know what that means. He did say he had not even thought about taking a drink through all this. I told him about this site and he said he would look it up. I didn't tell him I had posted something, but oh well. But then he asked why I thought this had to do with his alcoholism. All I could say was that from everything I have read, including the stickie, "13 Characteristics of Adult Children of Alcoholics," which I read to him, that I think it is very much a part of his feelings. (He also agreed it sounded just like him.) Maybe there is an underlying reason he can't tell me, although so far he has been brutally honest about things I do that drive him nuts, but careful to say that it wasn't me, it was just that another person was here.
Perhaps there is an underlying problem he doesn't even know about. Is it possible that this has nothing to do with this disease? I will look for a couples therapist and maybe we can find out.
When I asked him tonight how he could feel the people in AA were losers, he clarified that all the meetings located around us were like that. So perhaps he needs to find a better meeting. Freedom 1990....what is a dry drunk?
Thank you, thank you, for all the help.
Perhaps there is an underlying problem he doesn't even know about. Is it possible that this has nothing to do with this disease? I will look for a couples therapist and maybe we can find out.
When I asked him tonight how he could feel the people in AA were losers, he clarified that all the meetings located around us were like that. So perhaps he needs to find a better meeting. Freedom 1990....what is a dry drunk?
Thank you, thank you, for all the help.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Louisburg Kansas
Posts: 3
One more thing, he became quite angry at me because I paid a bill online. It was about to be past due, so I paid it. He was so angry, he said he wanted to pay all the bills and have it go through his checkbook. I said I could pay it online through his checkbook if that's what he wanted. But that was not the same to him. It suddenly dawned on me that he must feel he has lost control and trying to take it back. Reminds me of #13 in the 13 Characteristics...."lock themselves into a course of action without serious consideration to alternative behaviors or possible consequences, leading to confusion, self loathing and loss of control over their environment."
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Couples counseling might be very enlightening, awife.
I will confess something to you: I too like living alone. I like the comfort and control of independence. The good news? I am happily married to someone else who likes his independence, and so we find ways to work together so that we can each stay within our comfort zone. It CAN be done if that will save your marriage....I love my life.
I will confess something else: I have used the words "I just want to be alone" and "stay out of my checkbook" before, and it was because I had something to hide that I was not proud of. I pray this isn't the case for you, but counseling may bring it to the surface. Honesty is going to be critical here, even if it's something that upsets you. We can only make good, solid life decisions based on absolute truth, not on fairy tales.
Hugs to you in this tough time. Things will get better.
GL
I will confess something to you: I too like living alone. I like the comfort and control of independence. The good news? I am happily married to someone else who likes his independence, and so we find ways to work together so that we can each stay within our comfort zone. It CAN be done if that will save your marriage....I love my life.
I will confess something else: I have used the words "I just want to be alone" and "stay out of my checkbook" before, and it was because I had something to hide that I was not proud of. I pray this isn't the case for you, but counseling may bring it to the surface. Honesty is going to be critical here, even if it's something that upsets you. We can only make good, solid life decisions based on absolute truth, not on fairy tales.
Hugs to you in this tough time. Things will get better.
GL
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
A dry drunk is someone who is abstaining, and abstaining only.
For me, alcoholism is a disease, and threefold-physical, emotional, and spiritual. If I address the physical by abstaining, but do not take care of the other two areas, I am simply a dry drunk, that is, I am still the same miserable person, minus the alcohol.
I was an isolationist by nature. That was something I had to work very hard on when I got sober, and when I say sober, I mean I had to change my attitudes/behaviors and work on my spirituality.
Sober is not just physical abstinence for me-it is a state of mind.
I was engaged to a man several years ago. It was too good to be true. Now that I look back, there were red flags popping up that I chose to ignore.
He never drank the 15 months we were engaged. I KNEW he was a heavy drinker before he ever moved in.
In the end, he was a dry drunk. When some pretty heavy issues in regards to his daughter's from his previous marriage surfaced, he ran. He left me and my daughter high and dry, the savings account was drained, and he disappeared.
That was a very painful and expensive lesson for me.
You can go to couples counseling until the cows come home, but until the core issues of alcoholism are addressed, and I'm not talking abstinence from the alcohol, it's not going to do much good in my opinion.
We didn't start drinking because we were brimming with self-esteem and able to cope with life on life's terms. We don't automatically get all of that either when we put the bottle down.
For me, alcoholism is a disease, and threefold-physical, emotional, and spiritual. If I address the physical by abstaining, but do not take care of the other two areas, I am simply a dry drunk, that is, I am still the same miserable person, minus the alcohol.
I was an isolationist by nature. That was something I had to work very hard on when I got sober, and when I say sober, I mean I had to change my attitudes/behaviors and work on my spirituality.
Sober is not just physical abstinence for me-it is a state of mind.
I was engaged to a man several years ago. It was too good to be true. Now that I look back, there were red flags popping up that I chose to ignore.
He never drank the 15 months we were engaged. I KNEW he was a heavy drinker before he ever moved in.
In the end, he was a dry drunk. When some pretty heavy issues in regards to his daughter's from his previous marriage surfaced, he ran. He left me and my daughter high and dry, the savings account was drained, and he disappeared.
That was a very painful and expensive lesson for me.
You can go to couples counseling until the cows come home, but until the core issues of alcoholism are addressed, and I'm not talking abstinence from the alcohol, it's not going to do much good in my opinion.
We didn't start drinking because we were brimming with self-esteem and able to cope with life on life's terms. We don't automatically get all of that either when we put the bottle down.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 92
Welcome AWIFE! I would encourage you to pursue the couple's counselling if he will go and hopefully you both can work through this together. But as others have said, focus on your own recovery as well and this is a great place to find support and ideas for how to help yourself.
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