Enabling/ Rules you have set

Old 11-19-2008, 09:13 PM
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Question Enabling/ Rules you have set

Hi everyone,

I'm relatively new here. I've posted a while back when I was really down and have been reading a lot of posts since then.

My ABF has told me he wants to quit drinking but hasn't gotten any professional help/ gone to meetings etc. and of course he didn't end up quitting. He has cut back though (even though I'm sure it's just a matter of time until he's right back where he started from) and does not get wasted in my presence or when he knows I'll be spending the night - which is a nice change (but I know I shouldn't get used to it).

Anyways, I just kinda wanted to touch on the topic enabling and setting rules. I know there are multiple ways of enabling... babying the a, putting the a down for his behavior, etc. because all of that will leave the a not having to take on responsibilities for his/her own actions. I've read that to not enable is to just live your life as normal as possible and just go about your life and let the a worry about his alcohol problem himself. Easier said than done... I've really been trying from the beginning not to enable... however, I've probably failed several times, because it is just really hard for me to completely detach. So I was just thinking the other day about things I've done that would qualify as enabling ... my yelling would def. fall under that... and me trying to get him help and being the one trying to find out about treatment option would prob also be somewhat enabling because it is something he should be taking responsibilities for. So how do you live with an alcoholic without enabling him/ her and yet not pretending that everything's peachy when in reality it isnt? What about setting certain rules, like not talking to him when he's been drinking, etc. ... would that count as enabling (since the a. focuses all his/ her attention on the fact that you are being "mean" to/ "punish" him/her and not to the actual problem of his/ her addiction)?

Also, what kind of rules did you set to make living with an a easier? I for one refuse to have sex when he's been drinking/ will not touch/cuddle because just the smell of alc. on him makes me mad and upset, and I've been kinda trying to keep talking to a minimum when he's been drinking (I actually decided not to talk to him at all but that didn't really work out for some reason ).

Well, like I said things have actually been going well between us lately... but I know he drinks when I'm not there and I know things are bound to get worse again... so I figured I might as well address these things now so I'll be ready when I need to be. (isn't it sad to be losing the hope that things could turn to the better )
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Old 11-19-2008, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Lotus2008 View Post
and me trying to get him help and being the one trying to find out about treatment option would prob also be somewhat enabling because it is something he should be taking responsibilities for.
Just my opinion, but "somewhat enabling" is similar to being "kinda pregnant." You either is or you ain't. If he wants treatment, he'll get it. He owns his addiction. It's his business to decide whether or not he wants help.

Most people detach by moving out. I'm finishing college in May. I live in a town with a 20 percent unemployment rate. Obviously, I'm leaving to get on with my life. Detachment happened for me when I just moved my life back onto my side of the street.

I dragged AH in and out of detoxes, rehabs, hospitals, counseling, churches, bible studies, drove him to AA, picked him up from AA, bailed him out of jail, left him in jail, checked on his liquor supply, ignored him, cut him off without sex, gave him sex, yelled, preached, and probably engaged in every other codie behavior you can imagine. All of this is a form of enabling because I was INVOLVED in making HIS business MY business.

I worked on forgiving him. I worked on forgiving myself. I quit reacting to him. I quit expecting him to be a source of happiness for me. I allowed him the dignity to pursue drinking himself to death. It's sad and it's tragic. But he made his choice. His life. His choices. His consequences.
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:13 AM
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... would that count as enabling (since the a. focuses all his/ her attention on the fact that you are being "mean" to/ "punish" him/her and not to the actual problem of his/ her addiction)?


Anytime I am trying to change my behavior with an eye on what it causes another person to pay attention to, or how it makes another person react, I am swimming in codie waters!!

I try very hard to be doing what is best for me. Regardless of how the A reacts. I gave up trying to change and detach with an eye still towards having an effect on my brothers. In early AlAnon I think I made that mistake-- I still thought that if I did everything "right" it would effect them in these positive ways (my fantasy of a sudden beautiful recovery for them persisted, and was not useful!!). I finally grasped the real deal that detachment means just that- letting go- and I should only be trying to do all the right things because they are good for me!

When you put some of these new behaviors in practice pay attention to how they make YOU feel. Not how they affect him. How does it feel to YOU? If you feel better and less stressed not talking to him when he is drinking then it's probably a good behavior for YOU, etc.

It is sometimes just a subtle shift... keep trying Lotus - keep taking your mental temperature - not his - and more will be revealed!
Peace-
B.
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:18 AM
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I wouldn't even ponder the thought of living with an alcoholic in the first place. So no boundaries would be set. I would be off living my peaceful life.
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Stubborn1 View Post
I wouldn't even ponder the thought of living with an alcoholic in the first place. So no boundaries would be set. I would be off living my peaceful life.
Same here.
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:46 AM
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stubborn 1: I wouldn't even ponder the thought of living with an alcoholic in the first place. So no boundaries would be set. I would be off living my peaceful life.

TommyK: Same here.



?????
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:35 AM
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I don't believe in "rules" in a relationship; they are for games and I'm through playing the alcoholic one.

The only decision I made during my marriage, and told xAH about, was no arguments when he had been drinking. If he tried to start up, I left the room. This was pre Al Anon, so I still had some of my brain left.

During this time, it never occurred to me he was an alcoholic - I didn't even know what one was.
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Old 11-20-2008, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post
stubborn 1: I wouldn't even ponder the thought of living with an alcoholic in the first place. So no boundaries would be set. I would be off living my peaceful life.

TommyK: Same here.



?????
Lamens terms........There is no reason in the world I would torture myself and risk my happiness for a boyfriend. No ties, no loss. Simple
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:01 PM
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I tried it all before I gave up and had him move out. I did all the classic enabling behaviour as well and even after he left, I still blamed myself because I thought there might be one more thing I could have tried. I think in 16 years I tried them all and probably each one many, many times.

I talked, I reasoned, I begged, pleaded, cried, yelled, argued, made appointments for counselling, got him all the information for rehab so he could make a decision, bought him books on how to quit on his own, enlisted the help of his family, kicked him out, begged him back, moved out myself, came back, went to counselling for my own sanity, Alanon, read hundreds of self-help books, offered to go to AA with him, ignored him when he was drinking, engaged him when he was drinking (big mistake), refused sex when he'd been drinking (I couldn't stand the smell of him either)...... In other words, I tried everything.

Some people seem able to detach while lliving with the A but I could never master that. I would get triggered by the simplest things, like how his eyes seemed to change when he was drinking and had crossed over that imaginery line where his personality changed, or the way he reaked of alcohol, or how we'd be having a wonderful conversation one minute and then in the next he would call be some disgusting name and I would be shocked how he could change so quickly.

So I don't think there is any right or wrong way to deal with it or control it. Alanon and counselling may help but ultimately you have to decide if you can live with it or not.
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Lotus2008 View Post
So how do you live with an alcoholic without enabling him/ her and yet not pretending that everything's peachy when in reality it isnt?
I couldn't. That's why I left and divorced him. I was tired of trying to pretend life was normal and acceptable when it wasn't.


Originally Posted by Lotus2008 View Post
What about setting certain rules, like not talking to him when he's been drinking, etc. ... would that count as enabling (since the a. focuses all his/ her attention on the fact that you are being "mean" to/ "punish" him/her and not to the actual problem of his/ her addiction)?
I don't set rules for other adults. Rules are for children who don't have the maturity to decide for themselves what to do.

I think what you are trying to find out are boundaries perhaps. Boundaries are where you decide what is and is not acceptable behavior from someone and what you are willing to do if your boundaries are are violated. You set boundaries for yourself, to protect yourself from behaviors that are harmful to you in some way. Boundaries are not to control another person.

For instance, I have a boundary that is will not get into a discussion with someone who is drunk. I remove myself from the person whether that means leaving the room, leaving the building or whatever.
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:40 PM
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Boundaries for me (regarding my AH), because they make my life better:

If you are drinking, then I will not be around you. I will excuse myself, leave the room, the house, the building. I will not watch you drink or talk to you while you drink. I will not pretend that it is normal for you to drink.

If you want to discuss your consumption of alcohol - the problems that you are facing, your depression, your isolation, your need for me - then I will remind you that I am unable to help you. I will not talk about your "problem." AA is full of people who would love to help. I am not the reason you drink, and I am not the solution to your drinking.

If you lie to me, then I will not continue to pursue a romantic relationship with you. I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I want a partner who will be honest with me. I want trust in my relationship. If you are unable to provide that, I will not insistent that you give me something you are incapable of. I will know that I must find it elsewhere.

If you choose to live in active alcoholism, then I will choose to live elsewhere.
.................................................. ................................................


Just so you know, these boundaries have not always been well-received. They do not keep AH from drinking, but, why should they? They're not for him - they're for me. They keep me sane and serene. They improve my life while I decide what my next step should be.

Good luck to you!
-TC
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:01 PM
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With xAH I did all the rules and screaming ect.. I swore I would never do that again. When husband number two fell off the wagon I got help for me. He has no "rules". He does what he wants. At this point no boundaries either; he just walks across them. He likes to "pretend" that all is just peachy. I play along for the sake of false peace.

I have asked for him to stop drinking, getting help, marriage counseling, no sex when drinking, coming home at proper times, coming home at all. He sees no reason to listen to any of these requests. If I get mad, I get an "I'm sorry" with about as much remorse as if he had stubbed my toe.

When they don't want help I don't believe there is any reason to actively be engaging them. I believe that if they are going to continue in an alcoholic lifestyle that they are in no place to contribute to a relationship. Relationships are about love and respect. How can they respect you when they don't respect themselves? And love? Their one true love is the bottle.

I am one of the people that feels that as long as they are actively involved in their addiction no one should be with them.
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Old 11-21-2008, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post
Anytime I am trying to change my behavior with an eye on what it causes another person to pay attention to, or how it makes another person react, I am swimming in codie waters!!

I try very hard to be doing what is best for me. Regardless of how the A reacts. I gave up trying to change and detach with an eye still towards having an effect on my brothers. In early AlAnon I think I made that mistake-- I still thought that if I did everything "right" it would effect them in these positive ways (my fantasy of a sudden beautiful recovery for them persisted, and was not useful!!). I finally grasped the real deal that detachment means just that- letting go- and I should only be trying to do all the right things because they are good for me!

When you put some of these new behaviors in practice pay attention to how they make YOU feel. Not how they affect him. How does it feel to YOU? If you feel better and less stressed not talking to him when he is drinking then it's probably a good behavior for YOU, etc.

It is sometimes just a subtle shift... keep trying Lotus - keep taking your mental temperature - not his - and more will be revealed!
Peace-
B.
Thanks Bernadette! I know I should focus more on ME and try to help MYSELF... and I will try to work on that more!!! It's just not that easy to keep that in mind if I see my abf's self destructive behaviors (but I guess what I'm doing is just as self-destructive as he is). Wow... I think I just had an a-ha moment

Thanks, TC ... for sharing your boundaries and for the reminder that boundaries are not for him - but for me (to keep me sane)!

Thanks to all of you for all the input/ insight/ and answers!
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