EXABF still wanting to take my son hunting

Old 11-11-2008, 12:16 PM
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EXABF still wanting to take my son hunting

I called to talk to his mom yesterday (to see if she wanted the rabbits that he was raising at my house, I am running out of room to put them), I called in the early afternoon thinking he would be at work, well he answered the phone.

Well anyway I asked him to talk to his mom about the rabbits, and then he asked about taking my 9 year old son hunting. And I said well I haven't given it much thought, but if I let you take him it would only be if you are not drinking, AT ALL. And he said "well I wasn't planning on it", and I said "Well the last time you took him you were intoxicated when you got home". So then he tried having a conversation with me. He said "Oh yeah, and thanks for the letter last week, I'm glad you were finally honest that's all I wanted for 3 1/2 years" (almost made me sick to my stomach, ME be honest, he was hardly EVER honest), and I said "Yeah, so did I" and I said "No you weren't" and he started to say something and I said "I don't want to argue, I have to go", and I hung up. I was nice to him, I didn't raise my voice or engage.

He seemed so cocky on the phone, and made it a point to tell me twice (in a conversation that lasted maybe 2 minutes) that he was leaving and had places to go (I'm sure to imply he had to go see her)....his cocky attitude upset me just a little...but not a lot. I didn't let it ruin my night, I didn't let it set me back emotionally, too far anyway. I was a little down last night thinking about them being together though.

Anyway, I just wonder what his motivation is for taking my son hunting. I mean, I know that he loves Ryan (as much as an A can love a child), and I know that Ryan was attached to Chris, but there is so much bad history.

And if Chris was sober and took him hunting, and the two of them would be able to enjoy their time together, would this benefit Ryan, or confuse him more?

My friend seems to think that Chris is using Ryan to get to me....but I don't know how he could possibly think he could use Ryan to get to me.

I don't know what to do.

I talked with his principal and he is going to start seeing the school counselor, but I'm not sure when that will be.

Last edited by sodetermined; 11-11-2008 at 12:18 PM. Reason: I posted yesterday about a conversation I had with Ryan the night before.
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:29 PM
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soconfused

I'm not sure why you would want to have your son around this man.
  • It would confuse the he|| out of Ryan, who already confused
  • It would give Chris a nice long opportunity to tell your son lies about you in order to stay in his good graces
  • It would keep you in contact with Chris, giving him even more chances to rewrite history to his own advantage and postponing true recovery for you,
  • You KNOW Chris is likely to drink, and your son will be asked to lie to you about it, further screwing him up
  • Do you really want your kid around a drunk with firearms?

.......I really, really, REALLY don't see anything good coming out of this. But that's just me. What does it matter what Chris' motivations are? What are YOURS? Why would you do this? (and I mean that nicely,not meanly) How in god's name has Chris earned the right to be in your child's life???
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:36 PM
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I do not think that Chris would say anything bad about me to Ryan. That is one of his positive traits, even when he was going through the divorce with his ex-wife, he NEVER, ever said one bad thing about their mom to them. He was always good about that.

And I have already decided that IF I let him go, I will make arrangments for his mom or sister or someone else to get Ryan, and limiting our contact.

And Ryan won't lie to me about the drinking, Chris has definitely tried that before, Ryan knows not to lie.


What does it matter what Chris' motivations are? What are YOURS? Why would you do this? (and I mean that nicely)
If his motivations are to spend genuine, good time with Ryan, I just wondered if it would be a positive thing for Ryan, to know that he didn't just walk out of his life and that he doesn't care.
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:42 PM
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I have to agree with GiveLove. What would be the point? For either of them?

And if Chris was sober and took him hunting, and the two of them would be able to enjoy their time together, would this benefit Ryan, or confuse him more?
As the SON of an alcoholic I can tell you that I would have rather been left alone than to do half of the things I did with my father. And he was my father.

My friend seems to think that Chris is using Ryan to get to me....but I don't know how he could possibly think he could use Ryan to get to me.
Sounds like an astute friend to me. A's do things that don't make sense.
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:43 PM
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If his motivations are to spend genuine, good time with Ryan, I just wondered if it would be a positive thing for Ryan, to know that he didn't just walk out of his life and that he doesn't care.
Do you plan to have him around as a father figure to your son until he is grown?
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:43 PM
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He is using your son to get to you.

I can see it clear as day.
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:45 PM
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I remember all you've said about Chris and I am still wondering how it can be interpreted as a good thing to send Ryan a signal to that Chris is still in your lives? Not to mention the fact that he is a manipulative, active alcoholic who lied to you, used you, and kicked you aside in two days, and is taking your son out into the woods, likely drunk (he has done so before), with a gun. It is obvious he is using Ryan as a pawn, and I am just terribly confused about why you'd choose to play this game, but it's really your choice.

If you want to have Ryan know that Chris still cares, how about some safe, supervised event where you can be sure he's not drinking? But personally, I wouldn't want this poison around my kid. I remember those days too well, A relatives jerking the kids around to get back at each other or keep an "in" with each other......horrible for the child.
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:55 PM
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"No." is a complete sentence.

If you are "soconfused" imagine what prolonging contact will do to Ryan.
Plus if you give Chris access to your son then you are prolonging your contact.
Let it go.

He was intoxicated the last time he took your son hunting w/ guns and live ammunition???

I would just say, "No."

Peace-
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Old 11-11-2008, 01:02 PM
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Do you plan to have him around as a father figure to your son until he is grown?
I honestly haven't given that any thought, but doubtfully.

I just don't want Ryan thinking that he doesn't care, that he just walked away from him after 3 1/2 years without giving it a second thought, because I know what that feels like for me. But you guys are making a lot of sense, as usual my emotions are getting the best of me.

Ryan loves to hunt and was always thrilled to go, I just thought if he could do it and actually be nice and sober and take him, with nothing but good intentions, that it could be a good thing. And maybe tell Ryan before hand we still aren't going to be together.

You guys are talking me right out of it though.
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Old 11-11-2008, 01:05 PM
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Anyway, I just wonder what his motivation is for taking my son hunting.
I'll take an educated guess based on my experience with my former alcoholic boyfriend. Your ex's motivation for taking your son hunting is likely the same motivation you had when you called his mother about the rabbits...to keep the relationship going.

I hope you're not seriously entertaining the idea of allowing an active alcoholic to take your son hunting. That would be a monumental mistake.
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Old 11-11-2008, 01:11 PM
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Your ex's motivation for taking your son hunting is likely the same motivation you had when you called his mother about the rabbits...to keep the relationship going.
If this were true, I would admit it.....but it isn't. I don't have a problem admitting when I'm doing something or feeling something that is unhealthy for me (like when I admitted last week that I don't like the fact that he isn't calling because I feel like I have lost control). I did not call the house for any other reason but to talk to her about the rabbits. That is why I called before he would be home from work. And even when he answered, I asked for her.
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Old 11-11-2008, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Soconfused11 View Post
I honestly haven't given that any thought, but doubtfully.

I just don't want Ryan thinking that he doesn't care, that he just walked away from him after 3 1/2 years without giving it a second thought, because I know what that feels like for me. But you guys are making a lot of sense, as usual my emotions are getting the best of me.

Ryan loves to hunt and was always thrilled to go, I just thought if he could do it and actually be nice and sober and take him, with nothing but good intentions, that it could be a good thing. And maybe tell Ryan before hand we still aren't going to be together.

You guys are talking me right out of it though.
You can't go to the hardware store for bread, dear. Expecting him to do it and be 'nice and sober' is nothing short of your old insane thinking creeping in.

I'm going to tell you that one of the most difficult things for me to walk through after I got into recovery was how much I was sheltered as a child growing up.

What kind of lessons are you teaching Ryan by trying to 'fix' his feelings that he has already communicated to you?

Life can be disappointing. Some people are toxic.

How well will Ryan adapt to the outside world once he's grown if you try to fix him so he doesn't have to have feelings of discomfort?

What does he do once he's out in the world and experiences disappointment or anger or hurt if he's not allowed to walk through it as he grows up?

I can tell you I was so naive when I left home that it was incredibly painful to have reality hit me.
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Old 11-11-2008, 01:20 PM
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I just don't want Ryan thinking that he doesn't care, that he just walked away from him after 3 1/2 years without giving it a second thought, because I know what that feels like for me.
Isn't that what he did? Why would you want to protect Chris like that? Yes, Chris.

I have been going through the same sort of thing with my sons mother. Who after being his mother for the last 11 years turned her back on us. I tell my son the truth about what is going on. I use it it as a chance to explain to him how this "disease" works. How Grandmas drinking and the way she treated his Mother helped to cause this.
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Old 11-11-2008, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by sslusser View Post
Isn't that what he did? Why would you want to protect Chris like that? Yes, Chris.

I have been going through the same sort of thing with my sons mother. Who after being his mother for the last 11 years turned her back on us. I tell my son the truth about what is going on. I use it it as a chance to explain to him how this "disease" works. How Grandmas drinking and the way she treated his Mother helped to cause this.
Thank you for posting this. God bless you for educating your son! :ghug
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Old 11-11-2008, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by GiveLove View Post
.......I really, really, REALLY don't see anything good coming out of this. But that's just me. What does it matter what Chris' motivations are? What are YOURS? Why would you do this? (and I mean that nicely,not meanly) How in god's name has Chris earned the right to be in your child's life???
Would I let my dd go hunting with a drunk, that wasn't even her dad? HELL NO!

Man if my dd's stupid mom wasn't her MOM she'd never see her again.

I totally fail to see the importance of maintaining a relationship between a kid and an addict, even if it is their parent. Find him a "big brother" to do manly stuff with. Google Big brothers/big sisters , that's what I'm gonna do. Got the paper work in the car!

There's all kind of guys that go hunting that are sober and not turds.

Thanks and God bless us all, :ghug3
Coyote

P.S. Only in Texas, I swear I saw a big liteup neon sign that said simply "BEER/GUNS" :wtf2

P.S.S I'll bet that hunting related accidents that involve alcohol is aproaching 100%
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Old 11-11-2008, 02:58 PM
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Wow, DeVon, I NEVER thought of it like that. Thank you for giving me that insight, it's something I guess I need to start thinking about.
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:01 PM
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I have been going through the same sort of thing with my sons mother. Who after being his mother for the last 11 years turned her back on us. I tell my son the truth about what is going on. I use it it as a chance to explain to him how this "disease" works. How Grandmas drinking and the way she treated his Mother helped to cause this.
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Bet you're about as popular at Thanksgiving as I am!

Just kidding, we go else where now for TG! Starting our own traditions.

Thanks and God bless us all, :ghug

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Old 11-11-2008, 03:04 PM
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How about Big Brothers? I see there is one in your area. Some positive male role modeling might be great for Ryan. I have been a Big Sister and can vouch it is a wonderful organization. They vigorously screen participants.
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Soconfused11 View Post
Wow, DeVon, I NEVER thought of it like that. Thank you for giving me that insight, it's something I guess I need to start thinking about.

Please do! My God, I was so naive when I left home and I got right in with the drinking/drugging crowd, people ripped me off all the time, and I had no idea the world wasn't all rosie like my parents tried to have me believe it was!

I was crippled emotionally before I ever left the gate!

Help him to grow up as a well-adjusted young man. Be open in your communication. Allow him to feel disappointment and talk to you about it. I can tell you that my youngest AD and I have a good relationship today in spite of the poor choices she continues to make because she knows she can talk to me about anything, and I no longer have that damnable need to protect her from what the world can dish out.

You were already given suggestions in a prior thread about things like going to church to expose him to good male role models. Out with the old, in with the new!

I have no doubt you want Ryan to learn healthy coping skills! :ghug :ghug
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:18 PM
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My God I know how hard it is.

The Dad shows up every so often and think they deserve a medal. You are up all night when your baby has a cold, but get no thanks. You bust your gut at work to give your baby a decent Christmas, he spends it on booze or whatever.

All I can say, and this is from experience, is that they will learn what the absent unresponsible parent is like. It might not be when they are three, twelve or sixteen. But They will eventually see. You won't have to point things out, your baby will just see for himself.

Just do your best and then do not worry. If you have done all you can, thats all you can do. But mark my words, he will not need it pointing out to him in years to come. He will accept his Dad is a loser.

At the moment, i expect you find it hard. But just laugh to yourself, just pity him. Your boy will grow up knowing that his mum did everything she could but his Dad did not.

Do yourself proud.

All I can say is trust me it will happen because this is what is happening to me at the moment.

B
x
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