Dealing with needing space during recovery (co-dependency)
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Originally Posted by denny57 
I'm going to take a wild guess that that woman wouldn't know AA if it bit her. Doesn't matter.
I find it ridiculous that she is turning to this woman with her problems. This woman has more problems than I can't think of. Last week she even came to me and said that she shouldn't be someone she associated with if she wanted to get better.
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Originally Posted by denny57
You'll be ok, Despair, believe it. Keep the focus on you, try not to get in her head. You might, though, try putting yourself in her shoes. Imagine yourself as someone who had a partner who loved them, yet you felt compelled to go onto an internet site and look for one night stands. What would you think of YOURSELF? If it were me, I would think I had some serious issues. Her behavior has nothing to do with you and everything to do with her. Let her own it.
I can't see how she thinks having random sex with strangers is going to help in her recovery.
She said she's not doing this to hurt me. She's doing it because she thinks it's best for us. LOL... yeah... having casual sex with random strangers is what's best for us. beautiful.
Anyways, I'm going to try to get some sleep. I have to wake up soon to go to work.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
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I can't convey how much this thread affected me.
You are so very very lucky this is "done", you really are.
It's really easy when you are "new" in AA to go "answer shopping" and find some fool to "co-sign your bullsh1t", because if she did go to a woman with "real" sobriety" that woman would have "pulled her covers" and just been labeled non-supportive and probably abusive as well.
Because, telling the truth is abusive, manipulative and harmful doncha know.
Don't walk, run...run fast, run far, a manipulative person that is just beginning "recovery" will twist everything around to support her skewed version of events, just like she's labeling you the "manipulator" and "abuser".
As far as her looking for her "one night stand" she's just swapping one addiction for another, and I'm sure that's also your fault, and the man she finds will be able to treat her like you never did.
Right.
It's just her finding yet a new addiction (or an existing one) so she doesn't have to look at herself and her behavior, just another way she can not "own her part" and she will also get these men to tell her how wonderful she is because deep down guaranteed she hates herself, she knows she's running from the truth, running from herself, she knows she hates that person she has to look at in the mirror, this is all "classic" alcoholic behavior, they get UGLY when their "covers are pulled" and will do anything to not have to face themselves...well...yeah...woman who "put out" for "one night stands" are wonderful...to someone...for a minute...it's just emotional prostitution except the "coin" is she gets to feel good about herself for a moment.
Being pushed until you lose control is a classic "abuser" technique as well, now she can point the finger at you and say "look, look how I have been wronged" and never have to look at her part.
I have been absolutely devastated by nearly the same exact story as you.
I was driven to absolute insanity, then called an abuser, manipulator, every foul name in the book, every single thing she did, she "projected" on to me, everything I ever said was twisted and distorted, and the funny thing, (she got "sober" too...except of course for drinking and lying to me about it) when she "shared" her "experience, strength, and Hope", it was always word for word my words, she was like some sort of deranged Chuckie Parrot, where when you "pull the string" or "push the button" some very wise AA saying would come out...and she would have absolutely no experience with the subject ...just spouting "me" using my language.
I have been absolutely beating myself up, because I also became a person I didn't even recognize, she snooped, I snooped back, better, she got abusive, called me names, got super ugly, eventually I "hit" back, in the most hurtful ways I could think of, I ended up saying things that make me sick to think of.
Listen, I have had my nose broken by women, I have been called every name in the book (pre 16 years ago, before I got sober) because I deserved it. I was a liar, I cheated on my girlfriends, I wouldn't come home for days on end, I was every mothers nightmare.
When these women left me, and they all did, usually sooner then later, they all said the same thing, You are a nice guy, and you mean well, you try, you really do, but you are nothing but an "attractive nuisance" and you aren't really boyfriend material.
I never had a problem "owning my part" I knew I was bad news, I just couldn't stop, I really couldn't.
I fell in love with a wonderful woman 20 years ago and after a few years got sober and changed my whole life just to learn how to have a relationship with her.
therapy, the steps, more therapy, couples counciling, more steps, books up the wazoo...it ended up not working out ultimately because I blew the trust in the first few years.
It was my fault, I admit the blame wholly. I tried, we tried but she never recovered from me betraying her, and that's OK, we tried for nearly 8 years, she was right to leave me in the end, although I had "recovered" changed my behavior, I blew it bad in the beginning, she deserved something better, I became something better, it was just too late, the damage was done.
I lost the love of my life because of...me...and my behavior.
more therapy, more step work.
then a long term relationship in sobriety I didn't ever think was possible...it was wonderful, then after a few years, she asked to move in, I said yes, but I meant no, I didn't want to live with anyone yet..so she moved in and I withdrew emotionally...in a very real way, I "abandoned" her while living with her...years later when I moved away to help my family, after 6 months she phoned to say she was moving on, if she was going to be alone, she needed to "be" alone.
Once again, rightfully so, she deserves the best, and I had moved away. we are best friends today.
OK, the reason I tell you all this, is I feel exactly the same you do, confused angry, hurt, abandoned, the reason I told you about my past is show I am not afraid of my past, I don't shirk from the truth, and I have no problem "owning my part" I have been at times. a harmful human being, a moron, an unskilled human being, but I have never been what this woman calls me.
Anyhow, I then took up with a woman who was a practicing alcoholic (which I literally didn't spot, she was good at "hiding it" although having a few drinks at 6 AM every morning should maybe have tipped me off...strangely enough it didn't, and had a family history of abuse and she was an "incest survivor" or just repeatedly sexually molested.
the whole story of the end is here:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-new-post.html
she was amazingly abusive and manipulative, although she never saw it, she would lie constantly, never ever ever "take responsibility" basically you can read exactly what she was like here:
Physical & Emotional Abuse Forum: Some traits of emotional abusers... - DailyStrength
and what it feels like here
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...bal-abuse.html
I finally walked away for the last time after she had "disappeared" yet again for two days so she could drink, she sent me an email stating "I drank last night, and I am going to drink tonight, I have never cheated but I am going to start now, I am going all out to be Bad, and I am going to be good at it.
I feel like "who would believe me?" a woman abusing a man? She seems so nice.
The answer was everyone. I was the only one "surprised" at her behavior, at least the last 5-6 times it happened.
I have been feeling disgusted, confused, angry, bitter, the blame? ooof her. me. her. me. her. me.
I'm done...been done, I'm only sorry I went back so many times and got so sick.
at the end of the day? I harmed her. The person I had become harmed her. I have to learn how to be OK with that, I never slapped her, but I said some harmful things.
My xragfbff said to me "Andrew, I know what you look like when you treated with love, honesty and integrity, and you responded with love honesty and integrity, this woman is vile, she is POISON, this is what you look like being with an absolutely foul human being.
well, now I know what I look like when I am with someone who is abusive, nasty, and manipulative, and I never want to be that person again.
I really don't...for me.
I never want to feel the way I did when I walked away,I was crying so hard, listening to her beg, plead, say please, we were both crying and me saying No, I can't, I'm sorry, I love you so very very much but I have to go, I have to protect myself, then have her turn into Megan from "The Exorcist" it was really that ugly.
Walk away
Walk away before you can't walk away.
Walk away before it's too late.
Stay away.
I wish you the best, and I just wanted you to know you aren't alone, I felt so alone and isolated even with a support group, I felt no one could understand, being with someone like that was...just the most harmful thing to have happen to me....so confusing...just mind boggling...I hope you found this helpful, i truly do
/hug
You are so very very lucky this is "done", you really are.
It's really easy when you are "new" in AA to go "answer shopping" and find some fool to "co-sign your bullsh1t", because if she did go to a woman with "real" sobriety" that woman would have "pulled her covers" and just been labeled non-supportive and probably abusive as well.
Because, telling the truth is abusive, manipulative and harmful doncha know.
Don't walk, run...run fast, run far, a manipulative person that is just beginning "recovery" will twist everything around to support her skewed version of events, just like she's labeling you the "manipulator" and "abuser".
As far as her looking for her "one night stand" she's just swapping one addiction for another, and I'm sure that's also your fault, and the man she finds will be able to treat her like you never did.
Right.
It's just her finding yet a new addiction (or an existing one) so she doesn't have to look at herself and her behavior, just another way she can not "own her part" and she will also get these men to tell her how wonderful she is because deep down guaranteed she hates herself, she knows she's running from the truth, running from herself, she knows she hates that person she has to look at in the mirror, this is all "classic" alcoholic behavior, they get UGLY when their "covers are pulled" and will do anything to not have to face themselves...well...yeah...woman who "put out" for "one night stands" are wonderful...to someone...for a minute...it's just emotional prostitution except the "coin" is she gets to feel good about herself for a moment.
Being pushed until you lose control is a classic "abuser" technique as well, now she can point the finger at you and say "look, look how I have been wronged" and never have to look at her part.
I have been absolutely devastated by nearly the same exact story as you.
I was driven to absolute insanity, then called an abuser, manipulator, every foul name in the book, every single thing she did, she "projected" on to me, everything I ever said was twisted and distorted, and the funny thing, (she got "sober" too...except of course for drinking and lying to me about it) when she "shared" her "experience, strength, and Hope", it was always word for word my words, she was like some sort of deranged Chuckie Parrot, where when you "pull the string" or "push the button" some very wise AA saying would come out...and she would have absolutely no experience with the subject ...just spouting "me" using my language.
I have been absolutely beating myself up, because I also became a person I didn't even recognize, she snooped, I snooped back, better, she got abusive, called me names, got super ugly, eventually I "hit" back, in the most hurtful ways I could think of, I ended up saying things that make me sick to think of.
Listen, I have had my nose broken by women, I have been called every name in the book (pre 16 years ago, before I got sober) because I deserved it. I was a liar, I cheated on my girlfriends, I wouldn't come home for days on end, I was every mothers nightmare.
When these women left me, and they all did, usually sooner then later, they all said the same thing, You are a nice guy, and you mean well, you try, you really do, but you are nothing but an "attractive nuisance" and you aren't really boyfriend material.
I never had a problem "owning my part" I knew I was bad news, I just couldn't stop, I really couldn't.
I fell in love with a wonderful woman 20 years ago and after a few years got sober and changed my whole life just to learn how to have a relationship with her.
therapy, the steps, more therapy, couples counciling, more steps, books up the wazoo...it ended up not working out ultimately because I blew the trust in the first few years.
It was my fault, I admit the blame wholly. I tried, we tried but she never recovered from me betraying her, and that's OK, we tried for nearly 8 years, she was right to leave me in the end, although I had "recovered" changed my behavior, I blew it bad in the beginning, she deserved something better, I became something better, it was just too late, the damage was done.
I lost the love of my life because of...me...and my behavior.
more therapy, more step work.
then a long term relationship in sobriety I didn't ever think was possible...it was wonderful, then after a few years, she asked to move in, I said yes, but I meant no, I didn't want to live with anyone yet..so she moved in and I withdrew emotionally...in a very real way, I "abandoned" her while living with her...years later when I moved away to help my family, after 6 months she phoned to say she was moving on, if she was going to be alone, she needed to "be" alone.
Once again, rightfully so, she deserves the best, and I had moved away. we are best friends today.
OK, the reason I tell you all this, is I feel exactly the same you do, confused angry, hurt, abandoned, the reason I told you about my past is show I am not afraid of my past, I don't shirk from the truth, and I have no problem "owning my part" I have been at times. a harmful human being, a moron, an unskilled human being, but I have never been what this woman calls me.
Anyhow, I then took up with a woman who was a practicing alcoholic (which I literally didn't spot, she was good at "hiding it" although having a few drinks at 6 AM every morning should maybe have tipped me off...strangely enough it didn't, and had a family history of abuse and she was an "incest survivor" or just repeatedly sexually molested.
the whole story of the end is here:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-new-post.html
she was amazingly abusive and manipulative, although she never saw it, she would lie constantly, never ever ever "take responsibility" basically you can read exactly what she was like here:
Physical & Emotional Abuse Forum: Some traits of emotional abusers... - DailyStrength
and what it feels like here
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...bal-abuse.html
I finally walked away for the last time after she had "disappeared" yet again for two days so she could drink, she sent me an email stating "I drank last night, and I am going to drink tonight, I have never cheated but I am going to start now, I am going all out to be Bad, and I am going to be good at it.
I feel like "who would believe me?" a woman abusing a man? She seems so nice.
The answer was everyone. I was the only one "surprised" at her behavior, at least the last 5-6 times it happened.
I have been feeling disgusted, confused, angry, bitter, the blame? ooof her. me. her. me. her. me.
I'm done...been done, I'm only sorry I went back so many times and got so sick.
at the end of the day? I harmed her. The person I had become harmed her. I have to learn how to be OK with that, I never slapped her, but I said some harmful things.
My xragfbff said to me "Andrew, I know what you look like when you treated with love, honesty and integrity, and you responded with love honesty and integrity, this woman is vile, she is POISON, this is what you look like being with an absolutely foul human being.
well, now I know what I look like when I am with someone who is abusive, nasty, and manipulative, and I never want to be that person again.
I really don't...for me.
I never want to feel the way I did when I walked away,I was crying so hard, listening to her beg, plead, say please, we were both crying and me saying No, I can't, I'm sorry, I love you so very very much but I have to go, I have to protect myself, then have her turn into Megan from "The Exorcist" it was really that ugly.
Walk away
Walk away before you can't walk away.
Walk away before it's too late.
Stay away.
I wish you the best, and I just wanted you to know you aren't alone, I felt so alone and isolated even with a support group, I felt no one could understand, being with someone like that was...just the most harmful thing to have happen to me....so confusing...just mind boggling...I hope you found this helpful, i truly do
/hug
Last edited by Ago; 11-06-2008 at 10:54 PM.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
this is all "classic" alcoholic behavior, they get UGLY when their "covers are pulled" and will do anything to not have to face themselves...
Ditto Ago....
Hang in there Despair-- go no contact for a while and get some perspective and peace in your mind- can you get to some AlAnon meetings??
Peace-
B.
Ditto Ago....
Hang in there Despair-- go no contact for a while and get some perspective and peace in your mind- can you get to some AlAnon meetings??
Peace-
B.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 59
Thanks Ago. I really appreciate the long message. It has struck a few chords with me.
No contact is going to be very difficult. I'm resolving to not answer my phone if she calls. I have however been e-mailing her back and forth since last night.
She's about 1 1/2 weeks of being admitted into rehab. Right now I am just trying to beg her to take care of herself and realize that one night stands are not the answer. That she can satisfy her own sexual needs by herself for the next 8 days. It's only 8 freaking days!!! It's unbelievable how impossible it is to rationalize with someone like this. I have quoted a few things said here to her because I thought they were well thought out.
Here is what she said about her intimate profile:
I don't know what to make of it. In one breath she says she can do what she wants with her body and it's none of my business, in another she says she knows it will most likely be a mistake, yet I saw that she had written down phone numbers and events to attend with some of these online men.
I also told her that I have no intention of having her back home for a long while. Even once she gets out of rehab. I really want to work on myself and get myself back to a healthy spot. I also said that I can't have her back the way she is. She will have needed to work on herself. She seems to think we have no hope at all... which hurts like hell.
No contact is going to be very difficult. I'm resolving to not answer my phone if she calls. I have however been e-mailing her back and forth since last night.
She's about 1 1/2 weeks of being admitted into rehab. Right now I am just trying to beg her to take care of herself and realize that one night stands are not the answer. That she can satisfy her own sexual needs by herself for the next 8 days. It's only 8 freaking days!!! It's unbelievable how impossible it is to rationalize with someone like this. I have quoted a few things said here to her because I thought they were well thought out.
Here is what she said about her intimate profile:
Also, I want you to know that the intimate profile thing was just to check out what's out there. I realize that I may be replacing one addiction for another. I am certainly giving it a lot of thought, and I will be very careful. Just because I made a profile in the intimate section, does not mean I am actually going to go out and have one-night stands. I do remember how ****** I felt about myself when I've done that in the past. I don't need some random guy to tell me how pretty and sexy I am... I can get that from my friends at AA, lol. We compliment each other a lot and make each other feel good, it's part of the healing process. I can look at myself in the mirror, and see that I am pretty. I can look at my naked body, and know that it looks good. I am not perfect, but certainly know I am quite a bit better than average when it comes to looks. I am not going to run out and do something I will most certainly regret.
I also told her that I have no intention of having her back home for a long while. Even once she gets out of rehab. I really want to work on myself and get myself back to a healthy spot. I also said that I can't have her back the way she is. She will have needed to work on herself. She seems to think we have no hope at all... which hurts like hell.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
Right now I am just trying to beg her to take care of herself and realize that one night stands are not the answer.
Despair, she is an alcoholic and is doing what alcoholics do - you can cry blue tears trying to convince her of this or that - all you're doing is engaging in her drama and prolonging a dynamic that is unhealthy for both of you.
I just find that whenever I am stating the obvious to alcoholics I am usually engaging in some kind of wishful thinking - as if my rational idea will break through all their addicted haze. It has never worked so far! Only made me frustrated and sick.
What a drag, this chaotic time - and very painful.. I hope you find a sliver of serenity soon--
(((hugs)))
B.
Despair, she is an alcoholic and is doing what alcoholics do - you can cry blue tears trying to convince her of this or that - all you're doing is engaging in her drama and prolonging a dynamic that is unhealthy for both of you.
I just find that whenever I am stating the obvious to alcoholics I am usually engaging in some kind of wishful thinking - as if my rational idea will break through all their addicted haze. It has never worked so far! Only made me frustrated and sick.
What a drag, this chaotic time - and very painful.. I hope you find a sliver of serenity soon--
(((hugs)))
B.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 59
Do free counsellors exist?
I'm kind of handcuffed right now with paying the mortgage and the bills. I hardly have enough money to efficiently feed myself.
I should no by now that there is no reasoning with her. I've tried time and time again and I never learn. It's just so frustrating that she can't even wait 8 damn days before she gets into treatment before doing anything stupid.
Whatever, I have spoken to some friends and 2 of my closest friends are going to come spend the weekend with me. It'll be nice to spend some time with people who are actually happy to see me for once.
Thanks to all of you. I don't know what I would do if I didn't have an outlet to vent my frustrations. I will cease and desist with the e-mails. I will also delete the fake account I made to the dating site. I've been seeing that she is currently "online" at the moment and it is killing me thinking about what she's doing.
I'm kind of handcuffed right now with paying the mortgage and the bills. I hardly have enough money to efficiently feed myself.
I should no by now that there is no reasoning with her. I've tried time and time again and I never learn. It's just so frustrating that she can't even wait 8 damn days before she gets into treatment before doing anything stupid.
Whatever, I have spoken to some friends and 2 of my closest friends are going to come spend the weekend with me. It'll be nice to spend some time with people who are actually happy to see me for once.
Thanks to all of you. I don't know what I would do if I didn't have an outlet to vent my frustrations. I will cease and desist with the e-mails. I will also delete the fake account I made to the dating site. I've been seeing that she is currently "online" at the moment and it is killing me thinking about what she's doing.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 517
I am so happy to hear about your friends visiting. When I broke up with my ExBF, I was devastated and didn't want to live anymore. I am always a bit hesitant to open up to people, even close friends. I tried to call my best friend, but I couldn't think of her number (unthinkable! I was THAT messed up), so I called another friend to ask for her number. He was so sweet! I started crying and talking to him was so helpful. Then I went to spend the weekend with other friends who live by the beach and it was the best I could do. It was a great weekend despite my horrible state of mind. At this point I still vividly remember the lovely company, but find it hard to recall the emotional turmoil. 
You are lucky to have friends who are there for you and I hope you can enjoy their company and can RELAX!
The good thing that came out of that bad breakup was seeing that there are such wonderful people who love me and will go out of their way to help lift me up. Have a wonderful weekend! :
You are lucky to have friends who are there for you and I hope you can enjoy their company and can RELAX!
The good thing that came out of that bad breakup was seeing that there are such wonderful people who love me and will go out of their way to help lift me up. Have a wonderful weekend! :
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 45
Despair,
Please you NEED to NOT to talk to this crazy woman. She has to want to save herself. You can't do it for her. You can't love her enough. You can't want sobriety for her.
I tried to read what she wrote to you, and all I could make out was a bunch of quacking.
Walk, crawl or run. Just do it now. You can thank G*d later when you get your bearings back.
Please you NEED to NOT to talk to this crazy woman. She has to want to save herself. You can't do it for her. You can't love her enough. You can't want sobriety for her.
I tried to read what she wrote to you, and all I could make out was a bunch of quacking.
Walk, crawl or run. Just do it now. You can thank G*d later when you get your bearings back.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Originally Posted by Despair
I can't put myself in her shoes because I can't imagine ever doing anything like that.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
I've been seeing that she is currently "online" at the moment and it is killing me thinking about what she's doing.
OMG this would torture me! Glad you are deleting account and getting friends to rally round you!
I was completely broke when I most needed counseling.
Three things that worked for me:
AlAnon - free and anonymous
Local Mental Health Center - actually had a great therapist there and it was sliding scale - extremely reasonable
I found a CBT clinic (cognitive behavior therapy) at a local University - I worked with a Graduate student overseen by a Doctor - it was short term (2 semesters) and only $15 a week and I literally credit it with the biggest changes in my unhealthy habits of mind.
Check out local universities that have graduate programs in psychology or counseling and call up the department- see if maybe they offer something like that.
Good luck desp-- glad you are here and sorry your heart is taking a pounding right now.
Peace-
B.
OMG this would torture me! Glad you are deleting account and getting friends to rally round you!
I was completely broke when I most needed counseling.
Three things that worked for me:
AlAnon - free and anonymous
Local Mental Health Center - actually had a great therapist there and it was sliding scale - extremely reasonable
I found a CBT clinic (cognitive behavior therapy) at a local University - I worked with a Graduate student overseen by a Doctor - it was short term (2 semesters) and only $15 a week and I literally credit it with the biggest changes in my unhealthy habits of mind.
Check out local universities that have graduate programs in psychology or counseling and call up the department- see if maybe they offer something like that.
Good luck desp-- glad you are here and sorry your heart is taking a pounding right now.
Peace-
B.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 59
The hardest part is letting go of the dream. I wanted desperately to have things get back to normal. I am getting to the point in my life where I would like to be father. I have dreams of playing with my future children.
It just seems like such a waste. Raising a family is very important to me and it just seems that by the time I get a solid grip on myself and into another longterm relationship, I may be getting to old to have children. I want to still be fit when my children are young so I can enjoy my time with them.
It just seems like the dream is gone.
In retrospect, it would be foolish and selfish of me to want a family with this woman right now. I cannot keep waiting and hoping for her to get better so I can do all the things I want to do with my life.
I've got to get my **** together and move on. I just wish it wasn't so difficult. I have no idea how I even made it through my entire work day and not cried once. It seems like I've just holding my tears back all day. It is so very draining.
It just seems like such a waste. Raising a family is very important to me and it just seems that by the time I get a solid grip on myself and into another longterm relationship, I may be getting to old to have children. I want to still be fit when my children are young so I can enjoy my time with them.
It just seems like the dream is gone.
In retrospect, it would be foolish and selfish of me to want a family with this woman right now. I cannot keep waiting and hoping for her to get better so I can do all the things I want to do with my life.
I've got to get my **** together and move on. I just wish it wasn't so difficult. I have no idea how I even made it through my entire work day and not cried once. It seems like I've just holding my tears back all day. It is so very draining.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 59
I already attend alanon once a week. I will probably look into finding a meeting list so I can go more often. Lord knows I will need it.
Alanon helps me alot, however I find it difficult to relate with the people in my group. I am the only male and there is a generation gap of about 20 years between me and the next youngest person.
I will look into your suggestions for counselling. thank you.
Alanon helps me alot, however I find it difficult to relate with the people in my group. I am the only male and there is a generation gap of about 20 years between me and the next youngest person.
I will look into your suggestions for counselling. thank you.
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Originally Posted by Despair
The hardest part is letting go of the dream. I wanted desperately to have things get back to normal. I am getting to the point in my life where I would like to be father. I have dreams of playing with my future children.
I'm sorry to be so cold, but her "disease" isn't going to magically go away and leave this person who is perfectly true, with good values, integrity, self-sufficiency, and honesty.
You deserve to be a dad with a good woman whom you can trust. She will never be that for you.
When I stopped trying to force a round peg (my XABF) into a square hole (my desire for a trusting, loving relationship free of addictions) and got on with life without him, good things started coming thick and fast.
Good luck, despair. Your dream hasn't died. You may need to let this one go to HAVE your dream. And that's okay -- it really is.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by GiveLove
And do you want to be a father with the kind of mother who would go out and sleep with strange men, all the while living with you and taking your money?
I'm sorry to be so cold, but her "disease" isn't going to magically go away and leave this person who is perfectly true, with good values, integrity, self-sufficiency, and honesty.
You deserve to be a dad with a good woman whom you can trust. She will never be that for you.
I'm sorry to be so cold, but her "disease" isn't going to magically go away and leave this person who is perfectly true, with good values, integrity, self-sufficiency, and honesty.
You deserve to be a dad with a good woman whom you can trust. She will never be that for you.
Also, my friends called and they won't be able to make it this weekend. And then they're pretty much booked for the next 2 weeks after that. I'll see how I feel tomorrow and maybe I'll drive down to my hometown and see my family.
Thanks again for all the support.
I like cereal!
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 30
:( Dear Despair,
This is truly a terrible time for you. I'm sorry for what you are going through.
I have been isolating myself A LOT and to the point where I have ceased all relationships with friends and family. My isolation isn't due to any affair or because I don't want to continue the relationship - frankly, I CAN'T. I just can't. I don't have anything to give anyone. Isn't that terrible?
I am sorry that she did this to you. You obviously were doing everything in your power to help her.
I agree with the above posters - concentrate on yourself right now. Your actions, your feelings, your life. You can't force her to do anything - as much as you might want to.
:sorry
This is truly a terrible time for you. I'm sorry for what you are going through.
I have been isolating myself A LOT and to the point where I have ceased all relationships with friends and family. My isolation isn't due to any affair or because I don't want to continue the relationship - frankly, I CAN'T. I just can't. I don't have anything to give anyone. Isn't that terrible?
I am sorry that she did this to you. You obviously were doing everything in your power to help her.
I agree with the above posters - concentrate on yourself right now. Your actions, your feelings, your life. You can't force her to do anything - as much as you might want to.
:sorry
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
it's not about the sex with "one night stands" it's her trying to validate herself and make herself "feel better" and she is just using sex and men to accomplish this. It's no different then picking up a drink or a drug, and since you two are in a supposed "intimate relationship" it's considerable less palatable. Any time an "addict" "uses" something to change the way they feel, whether it be sex, drugs, alcohol, it's just addiction.
The reason people go from relationship to relationship to relationship, or have a series of "one night stands" is you never have to be "accountable" to the other person, and it's just like a drug, there are studies, the brain lights up like a christmas tree just like when you do drugs, then getting addicted to sex or one night stands, or serial dating has it's own consequences, like "Looking for Mr Goodbar" in real life.
Her saying "i have it but what makes you think I will use it" is like her having gone out and bought a bottle of tequila, and has it sitting on the desk in front of her, then saying "I just want to look"
right, hang out in enough barber shops and you eventually get a haircut.
This behavior is now putting YOUR life literally "at risk", and who is to say she hasn't "acted out" in the past. I only "got caught" driving drunk a few times, of course if it was my GF that "caught me" I would say of course this is the only time I ever did this, and yeah I'm drunk, and the car is running, but I was "only looking" but the truth is I drove drunk until the wheels fell off.
I only "got caught" a few times.
if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck....chances are it's a duck, and I would get the "duck" outta dodge.
As long as you remain in contact with her, you, in many ways, are going to be just as sick as she is, I tell my sponsees two "D" people don't make an "A" relationship, and it was my experience we both just got sicker, I tried the best I could, and so did she, but at the end of the day all we had was two sick, sad puppies making each other sicker.
Trust me, I have experience on both sides of the ball on this one...she aint getting better for a LONG time, years at the very least, which she may or may not do , especially as long as you are around to pick up the pieces, and you will...guaranteed, she "plays you right" and you will be "right there" for years.
Is that what kind of life you want for yourself?
Think about your self respect my brother...you deserve better, I promise.
I was an avid "Computer Gamer" and led "raids" and "guilds" with 100's of people, My Characters were worth $1000's of dollars, I was talking to a friend the other day, and he was like "Andrew, if there was a "trap" that every time you opened it, it "blew up" and your character would have been a wreck for weeks, you would have never opened it up a second time, but you must care more for your "chars" then you do yourself, because you just went back again, and again, and again.
If you were your son, or your daughter, how would feel about your precious child just walking back into the "maw of the beast" over and over and over?
What if it was your daughter, and she was going back to a man who cheated on her regularly or was about to? tried to commit suicide? treated your daughter the way this woman treats you?
Pull off the "band aid" and walk away or it's just going to get more infected brother, I promise, I lived your future out and it wasn't pretty.
No contact
Get the F out of the Ghetto, they can't help beating you and robbing you, but it's your decision to "stay there" or "go there"
get out of the Ghetto.
Her words are poison.
Run Forrest Run
Let me know if you think I'm not being clear enough.
/big hug
I am so sorry you are going through this, I promise, I just went through this my own self...and it sucked butt...it really did.
Time for you to start loving yourself my brother, because that's not what you were getting from her.
The reason people go from relationship to relationship to relationship, or have a series of "one night stands" is you never have to be "accountable" to the other person, and it's just like a drug, there are studies, the brain lights up like a christmas tree just like when you do drugs, then getting addicted to sex or one night stands, or serial dating has it's own consequences, like "Looking for Mr Goodbar" in real life.
Her saying "i have it but what makes you think I will use it" is like her having gone out and bought a bottle of tequila, and has it sitting on the desk in front of her, then saying "I just want to look"
right, hang out in enough barber shops and you eventually get a haircut.
This behavior is now putting YOUR life literally "at risk", and who is to say she hasn't "acted out" in the past. I only "got caught" driving drunk a few times, of course if it was my GF that "caught me" I would say of course this is the only time I ever did this, and yeah I'm drunk, and the car is running, but I was "only looking" but the truth is I drove drunk until the wheels fell off.
I only "got caught" a few times.
if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck....chances are it's a duck, and I would get the "duck" outta dodge.
As long as you remain in contact with her, you, in many ways, are going to be just as sick as she is, I tell my sponsees two "D" people don't make an "A" relationship, and it was my experience we both just got sicker, I tried the best I could, and so did she, but at the end of the day all we had was two sick, sad puppies making each other sicker.
Trust me, I have experience on both sides of the ball on this one...she aint getting better for a LONG time, years at the very least, which she may or may not do , especially as long as you are around to pick up the pieces, and you will...guaranteed, she "plays you right" and you will be "right there" for years.
Is that what kind of life you want for yourself?
Think about your self respect my brother...you deserve better, I promise.
I was an avid "Computer Gamer" and led "raids" and "guilds" with 100's of people, My Characters were worth $1000's of dollars, I was talking to a friend the other day, and he was like "Andrew, if there was a "trap" that every time you opened it, it "blew up" and your character would have been a wreck for weeks, you would have never opened it up a second time, but you must care more for your "chars" then you do yourself, because you just went back again, and again, and again.
If you were your son, or your daughter, how would feel about your precious child just walking back into the "maw of the beast" over and over and over?
What if it was your daughter, and she was going back to a man who cheated on her regularly or was about to? tried to commit suicide? treated your daughter the way this woman treats you?
Pull off the "band aid" and walk away or it's just going to get more infected brother, I promise, I lived your future out and it wasn't pretty.
No contact
Get the F out of the Ghetto, they can't help beating you and robbing you, but it's your decision to "stay there" or "go there"
get out of the Ghetto.
Her words are poison.
Run Forrest Run
Let me know if you think I'm not being clear enough.
/big hug
I am so sorry you are going through this, I promise, I just went through this my own self...and it sucked butt...it really did.
Time for you to start loving yourself my brother, because that's not what you were getting from her.
Last edited by Ago; 11-07-2008 at 07:08 PM.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
I'm Sorry
I should only speak "for me" and stick to "my experience"
My friends told me all this for well over a year, and I kept going back...I just wish I hadn't, it was ultimately harmful to everyone involved, including my friends, who have had to listen to me whinge for well over a year about this, the last six months they would just sigh and roll their eyes when I went back.
It broke my heart, shattered my dreams...made me sick and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, even her in the darkest moments of my anger and despair.
I just know what's like to be in love with someone like that, and you know everything would be ok.......
if she was just somebody else.
well. she's not, so I had to move on, and it was harder then quitting drinking and almost as bad as quitting cigarettes and more painful then coming off Heroin....
I'm the one that walked away and I cried a lot.
for days and days.
and cried.
I don't cry any more, and am getting a little better every day, and truthfully, I hope she is too. That's the last thing I wrote her, was I hope she finds in AA what I did.
your post just "triggered" me and brought it all crashing back.
I'm here, and so are many others.
"If only this then that" is no longer a viable "thoughtl" in my "relationship coping mechanism"
Time to start treating me as well as I treated EpicWilly and Freebeer Proctologize
my beloved computer "chars"
Go with God my brother in loving the wrong person, go with my love for shared suffering, go, get help, get love, get support, cry if you need to, PM me if you would like, I'd give you phone # if you wanted to call and...anything.
I should only speak "for me" and stick to "my experience"
My friends told me all this for well over a year, and I kept going back...I just wish I hadn't, it was ultimately harmful to everyone involved, including my friends, who have had to listen to me whinge for well over a year about this, the last six months they would just sigh and roll their eyes when I went back.
It broke my heart, shattered my dreams...made me sick and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, even her in the darkest moments of my anger and despair.
I just know what's like to be in love with someone like that, and you know everything would be ok.......
if she was just somebody else.
well. she's not, so I had to move on, and it was harder then quitting drinking and almost as bad as quitting cigarettes and more painful then coming off Heroin....
I'm the one that walked away and I cried a lot.
for days and days.
and cried.
I don't cry any more, and am getting a little better every day, and truthfully, I hope she is too. That's the last thing I wrote her, was I hope she finds in AA what I did.
your post just "triggered" me and brought it all crashing back.
I'm here, and so are many others.
"If only this then that" is no longer a viable "thoughtl" in my "relationship coping mechanism"
Time to start treating me as well as I treated EpicWilly and Freebeer Proctologize
my beloved computer "chars"
Go with God my brother in loving the wrong person, go with my love for shared suffering, go, get help, get love, get support, cry if you need to, PM me if you would like, I'd give you phone # if you wanted to call and...anything.
Last edited by Ago; 11-07-2008 at 07:40 PM.
AKA 'grewupinabarn'
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 471
Despair,
The 3 C's:
You didn't Cause it
You can't Control it
You can't Cure it
Stop trying to figure out what she is thinking. She doesn't know what she is thinking. She did have one thing right - she needs to focus on recovery, not a relationship.
It sounds like you really want her to recover - for her own sake. You can let her know that you care and hope that she can recover, but you to set some boundaries and keep them for the sake of YOUR OWN sanity.
Don't try to save the relationship and don't hope you can revive it some time in the future. You will be enabling her addiction.
You will be a great father and husband. If you want this it will happen.
One thing that truly ruins a marriage - and harms children - is alcoholism. You had just a small taste of what it can make you do and the shame. I grew up in one. It sucks my friend. Don't go there.
I am NOT saying that a recovered and many years sober person will be a bad parent. They can be and many are wonderful parents, with truckloads of battle-scarred empathy and hard-won wisdom. You AxG is not in that category now and will not be so for some time.
Read those books and focus on your new job. And focus on you.
The 3 C's:
You didn't Cause it
You can't Control it
You can't Cure it
Stop trying to figure out what she is thinking. She doesn't know what she is thinking. She did have one thing right - she needs to focus on recovery, not a relationship.
It sounds like you really want her to recover - for her own sake. You can let her know that you care and hope that she can recover, but you to set some boundaries and keep them for the sake of YOUR OWN sanity.
Don't try to save the relationship and don't hope you can revive it some time in the future. You will be enabling her addiction.
You will be a great father and husband. If you want this it will happen.
One thing that truly ruins a marriage - and harms children - is alcoholism. You had just a small taste of what it can make you do and the shame. I grew up in one. It sucks my friend. Don't go there.
I am NOT saying that a recovered and many years sober person will be a bad parent. They can be and many are wonderful parents, with truckloads of battle-scarred empathy and hard-won wisdom. You AxG is not in that category now and will not be so for some time.
Read those books and focus on your new job. And focus on you.
Trying to find a path
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 91
Despair, it is going to hurt. You have to let it hurt. It is the hurt that will heal you and remind you that you shouldn't stick your hand in the fire anymore.
I think we start to enjoy the drama a little bit. Well, maybe not enjoy but we get used to it being there you know? I have been "minimal contact" for about 3 weeks now. and yesterday when I called her and the drama started up I could feel those butterflies start in my chest. That was my signal to stop! I was getting pulled in. I have to admit that it felt like I was the A and I had the beer in my hand ...
That is what they do to us. They do it because we let them. The trick is to stop letting them. I noticed a lot less wind from my AW when I told her that I didn't want to reconcile and lets get this show on the road. Then guess what happened. She said "I knew you didn't love me and would leave me someday." Give me a f#$%ing break. They do what they do so they can drink, PERIOD. We are just the dartboard.
Dude, you need to do this. Change your scenery to one that doesn't drum up that bad stuff. Have your mom cook you a meal. Be where it is safe. Watch a movie (may I suggest "You can't Take it with You" directed by Frank Capra). Fill your weekend with good things. Don't answer her calls, this is your time and by god with what you are going through you deserve it!
I will tell you something here. I have an 11 year old son with my AW. I can't say that I wish I didn't because he is half of the greatest joy in my life. The other half is a step-daughter. What I do wish is that he didn't have her as a mother. I knew what my wife was when we got married but I figured that she would slow down because that is what you do as you get older and start raising a family. No dice!
If you were an 11 year old boy how do you think it would feel to have this woman as your mother? I can tell you how mine feels and it isn't pretty. He starts his therapy sessions next week. He is a good boy and his concern for me is heartwarming to me but he is 11 and should be more worried about his bike or Hot Wheels.
You posted this hours ago. Have you done it yet? It doesn't matter what she is doing. She is going to do it whether you know or not and you aren't going to stop her. Your best bet is to not know.
Ignorance is sometimes bliss!
I worry all the time that my AW is being unfaithful and I have to stop myself and think why I would want a woman I have to wonder about. Someone who cared for ME would not make me worry about such things. Someone who is trying to hurt me will. I know she said she wasn't trying to hurt you but what did she think that action would result in? Passive Aggressive.
This weekend I am going to drive for 3 hours one way to watch my step daughter compete in the state cheerleading finals. Then I am going to have a steak and an ale (i don't have a drinking problem and I like the taste of scoittish ale) with my Grandmother (who will then drive us home!)
Sunday is going to be about my son. We will go to church and lunch and then ride bicycles around the lake.
It will be a weekend about me and mine loving each others company.
I'm sorry I am rambling again ...
Get out of town, have a break from this garbage. It will be there when you get back and it won't even miss you.
You are in my prayers tonight.
That's the worst part. I know all of this. I've been telling myself this for over a year. I don't understand how it can be so hard to let go of this vile vile poisonous woman. Why can't I just drop it. I know I'm better off without her. Everyone on the outside tells me I'm better off without her. Why can't I convince my brain of that. It's so frustrating.
That is what they do to us. They do it because we let them. The trick is to stop letting them. I noticed a lot less wind from my AW when I told her that I didn't want to reconcile and lets get this show on the road. Then guess what happened. She said "I knew you didn't love me and would leave me someday." Give me a f#$%ing break. They do what they do so they can drink, PERIOD. We are just the dartboard.
I'll see how I feel tomorrow and maybe I'll drive down to my hometown and see my family.
The hardest part is letting go of the dream. I wanted desperately to have things get back to normal. I am getting to the point in my life where I would like to be father. I have dreams of playing with my future children.
If you were an 11 year old boy how do you think it would feel to have this woman as your mother? I can tell you how mine feels and it isn't pretty. He starts his therapy sessions next week. He is a good boy and his concern for me is heartwarming to me but he is 11 and should be more worried about his bike or Hot Wheels.
I will also delete the fake account I made to the dating site. I've been seeing that she is currently "online" at the moment and it is killing me thinking about what she's doing.
Ignorance is sometimes bliss!
I worry all the time that my AW is being unfaithful and I have to stop myself and think why I would want a woman I have to wonder about. Someone who cared for ME would not make me worry about such things. Someone who is trying to hurt me will. I know she said she wasn't trying to hurt you but what did she think that action would result in? Passive Aggressive.
This weekend I am going to drive for 3 hours one way to watch my step daughter compete in the state cheerleading finals. Then I am going to have a steak and an ale (i don't have a drinking problem and I like the taste of scoittish ale) with my Grandmother (who will then drive us home!)
Sunday is going to be about my son. We will go to church and lunch and then ride bicycles around the lake.
It will be a weekend about me and mine loving each others company.
I'm sorry I am rambling again ...
Get out of town, have a break from this garbage. It will be there when you get back and it won't even miss you.
You are in my prayers tonight.
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