is this controlling behavior?
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Originally Posted by Reminder 
I am not clear on what you are saying here. He isn't saying that if you go out with her again, you will no longer have a BF. He is saying that if you go out with her to bars together, you will not have a BF. Right?
It doesn't matter what is being said, it's that it's being said at all. I am not a child and my significant other will not speak to me as a parent.
notsofast - have you considered going back into therapy? There are all types of abuse, not just screaming and physical.
((( )))
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: looking for the sun in cold MN
Posts: 775
I second what FD said with a hearty AMEN! I spent a lot of time wondering when and if STBXAH was going to his meetings. Who needs that? Now I know better- if there's any lying at all- forget it. Talk to the hand. . .
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 21
Reminder- Sorry about the confusion. He hasn't told me I cannot see her at all, just that he doesn't want us out in bars together.
As for how often she goes out, it varies, but sometimes it is 3 nights a week. Before he expressed his concern to me about me going out with her, I had only probably been out with her maybe 5 times in nearly a year...I'm not really a bar person anymore, would much rather spend time with my love. but when he is out of town and I am bored and my friends are going out, sometimes I want to go too.
I do other things with my GF, like go shopping or other girl stuff. He doesn't mind that. he likes it when I keep busy with friends when he is on tour, just doesn't want me in bars.
Former Doormat- I have considered al-anon. I told him I might start going, and he was happy about it. He told me it had helped many of his family members. This was a few weeks back. At the time I was worrying myself because he had gone to play a show in his hometown, and all his old using buddies were there as was a problem ex gf.
After coming home from that tour, he mentioned to me how he and his sponsor had talked about al-anon, and his sponsor said he hated it that his wife goes because it's "just another reminder that he (the sponsor) is an alcoholic..."
I thought that was strange. I took it as if my BF was saying that maybe I shouldn't go.
So I haven't been yet. I would love to get involved though.
This is tough.
As for how often she goes out, it varies, but sometimes it is 3 nights a week. Before he expressed his concern to me about me going out with her, I had only probably been out with her maybe 5 times in nearly a year...I'm not really a bar person anymore, would much rather spend time with my love. but when he is out of town and I am bored and my friends are going out, sometimes I want to go too.
I do other things with my GF, like go shopping or other girl stuff. He doesn't mind that. he likes it when I keep busy with friends when he is on tour, just doesn't want me in bars.
Former Doormat- I have considered al-anon. I told him I might start going, and he was happy about it. He told me it had helped many of his family members. This was a few weeks back. At the time I was worrying myself because he had gone to play a show in his hometown, and all his old using buddies were there as was a problem ex gf.
After coming home from that tour, he mentioned to me how he and his sponsor had talked about al-anon, and his sponsor said he hated it that his wife goes because it's "just another reminder that he (the sponsor) is an alcoholic..."
I thought that was strange. I took it as if my BF was saying that maybe I shouldn't go.
So I haven't been yet. I would love to get involved though.
This is tough.
Last edited by notsofast; 10-27-2008 at 11:13 AM.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 517
Originally Posted by Reminder
My wife knows my boundaries, and if she were to go out with a woman who hangs out in bars 3 nights a week, she knows that is going to be a problem.
Peace.
Peace.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
Posts: 2,136
Originally Posted by Reminder
I don't understand this attitude that some al-anon people have that it's OK for them to have boundaries for recovering alcoholics, but it's not OK for recovering alcoholics to have boundaries for al-anon people. Seems like a double standard to me.
I hope I'm respecting AH's boundaries, even the unspoken ones. I don't discuss his drinking with him; I don't bring it up. No, I don't like his addiction, but it's his choice, so I keep in mind that he has the right to pursue it.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by denny57
Today, if someone told me I could have vanilla ice cream, but not chocolate, I'd tell them to take their CONTROLLING self somewhere else. (and I'd expect someone to say the same to me if I told them what they could and could not do)
It doesn't matter what is being said, it's that it's being said at all. I am not a child and my significant other will not speak to me as a parent.
notsofast - have you considered going back into therapy? There are all types of abuse, not just screaming and physical.
((( )))
It doesn't matter what is being said, it's that it's being said at all. I am not a child and my significant other will not speak to me as a parent.
notsofast - have you considered going back into therapy? There are all types of abuse, not just screaming and physical.
((( )))
I don't want to derail the thread, but how can you compare chocolate or vanilla ice cream to this situation? I find your response disingenuous. Let's say, for example, that a recovering alcoholic decided for himself that he didn't want to be in a relationship with someone who drank (the situation in question here is even less extreme than my example). What is wrong with that? If her going to bars with a divorced woman who hangs out in bars 3 nights a week is a deal breaker for him, then she has a choice. She can accept it or reject it. I am sure that she has her deal breakers, also. We all do.
Boundaries are negotiated, not imposed. If she feels like she is giving up something for nothing in return, then she can negotiate with him to give up something that bothers her about him. Isn't this what mature adults do? I think this guy is getting raked over the coals unfairly here, but I am not going to pursue this any further. You get the last word.
Peace.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by notsofast
Reminder- Sorry about the confusion. He hasn't told me I cannot see her at all, just that he doesn't want us out in bars together.
As for how often she goes out, it varies, but sometimes it is 3 nights a week. Before he expressed his concern to me about me going out with her, I had only probably been out with her maybe 5 times in nearly a year...I'm not really a bar person anymore, would much rather spend time with my love. but when he is out of town and I am bored and my friends are going out, sometimes I want to go too.
I do other things with my GF, like go shopping or other girl stuff. He doesn't mind that. he likes it when I keep busy with friends when he is on tour, just doesn't want me in bars.
As for how often she goes out, it varies, but sometimes it is 3 nights a week. Before he expressed his concern to me about me going out with her, I had only probably been out with her maybe 5 times in nearly a year...I'm not really a bar person anymore, would much rather spend time with my love. but when he is out of town and I am bored and my friends are going out, sometimes I want to go too.
I do other things with my GF, like go shopping or other girl stuff. He doesn't mind that. he likes it when I keep busy with friends when he is on tour, just doesn't want me in bars.
Hi Notsofast:
I don't find his request to be unreasonable, but that is just my opinion. I wouldn't want my GF in bars either. However, I am not going to tell others what opinion they should have.
Peace.
Last edited by Reminder; 10-27-2008 at 01:55 PM. Reason: omitted word
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by prodigal
Yes, he is controlling. He is telling you, a grown woman, that you are not allowed to see your gf. He does not approve of her. That is his problem to own; but he is now trying to make it your's.
Reminder- Sorry about the confusion. He hasn't told me I cannot see her at all, just that he doesn't want us out in bars together.
As for how often she goes out, it varies, but sometimes it is 3 nights a week. Before he expressed his concern to me about me going out with her, I had only probably been out with her maybe 5 times in nearly a year...I'm not really a bar person anymore, would much rather spend time with my love. but when he is out of town and I am bored and my friends are going out, sometimes I want to go too.
I do other things with my GF, like go shopping or other girl stuff. He doesn't mind that. he likes it when I keep busy with friends when he is on tour, just doesn't want me in bars.
Here is a guy who is saying that he doesn't mind if she continues to see her friend. She can go shopping with her, go to movies with her, go to Starbucks for coffee together, etc. He just doesn't want her going to bars with this lady. I don't find that to be an unreasonable request. What I do find to be unreasonable is the tendency here to condemn him. However, I am not here to tell people how they should think.
Peace.
Peace.
Last edited by Reminder; 10-27-2008 at 04:59 PM.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Originally Posted by denny57
Today, if someone told me I could have vanilla ice cream, but not chocolate, I'd tell them to take their CONTROLLING self somewhere else. (and I'd expect someone to say the same to me if I told them what they could and could not do)
It doesn't matter what is being said, it's that it's being said at all. I am not a child and my significant other will not speak to me as a parent.
It doesn't matter what is being said, it's that it's being said at all. I am not a child and my significant other will not speak to me as a parent.
to go the opposite direction
If someone told me I couldn't sleep with other woman while I was in a relationship with them, I'd tell them to take their CONTROLLING self somewhere else.
I think that's what the confusion around all this is, at least it was for me.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 34
This may be off topic and I may be inappropriate - but am I the only one wondering why - he is so hard to contact while on the road? and that he is out until 4 am?
Usually from what I've seen in my life, when a person is suspicious, it's because they are up to something that's not so good. It's like a game of distraction.
I hope I am wrong about your man, but I see red flags about things no one has yet mentioned.
good luck
Usually from what I've seen in my life, when a person is suspicious, it's because they are up to something that's not so good. It's like a game of distraction.
I hope I am wrong about your man, but I see red flags about things no one has yet mentioned.
good luck
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
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Public Service Announcement:
Kindly limit your share to your personal experience as it relates to the original posters' question. This is _not_ the place to have separate discusions unrelated to the original question. That is called hi-jacking a thread and is not tolerated.
If you don't want to hijack or derail the thread, then don't do it.
That's a boundary. If you continue to derail or hijack this thread I will straighten it out. That's a consequence.
Mike
Moderator, Sober Recovery
Kindly limit your share to your personal experience as it relates to the original posters' question. This is _not_ the place to have separate discusions unrelated to the original question. That is called hi-jacking a thread and is not tolerated.
If you don't want to hijack or derail the thread, then don't do it.
That's a boundary. If you continue to derail or hijack this thread I will straighten it out. That's a consequence.
Mike
Moderator, Sober Recovery
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notsofast, the main thing I get from your posts is that YOU are upset and bewildered at some of the issues in your relationship right now. Given your story, there could be many ways of looking at the comments and actions of your abf. None of us knows for sure what the real answers are and can only make assumptions, according to our experiences. Possibly he has seen some pretty unpleasant things occur to women in bars and clubs whilst playing in them, and I can understand that. It may be also that he is unable to express his feelings in a better way, so you get an ultimatum which upsets you.
Mind you, being told about having gone to meetings, when you know he could not have, (lies), and being out of contact when on the road, are a couple of issues that I personally would want sorted out very quickly.
I wish you all the best.
Mind you, being told about having gone to meetings, when you know he could not have, (lies), and being out of contact when on the road, are a couple of issues that I personally would want sorted out very quickly.
I wish you all the best.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 390
I can only speak from my experience, but in your heart you know there are things that are bothering you and only you can choose to deal with them or rationalize them away. Many years ago I was involved with an ex who was a user, classic bad boy. I fell hard for him. At first things were brilliant and then subtle stuff started to happen. I was very young and 'thought' I loved him and explained everything away. I stayed with him for 6 years with 1 breakup in between (where he convinced me to take him back) and then he left me, abruptly, to be with an old flame. And I slowly lost myself and STILL explained it all away. After he left I had to rebuild myself, and now I thank my lucky stars because I've heard that he has gone on to restraining orders etc. with other women.
Similar stuff that I'm hearing from you. Didn't like one of my gf's. Reason why (in retrospect) is because I listened to her, and he didn't like her to influence me (i.e to tell me he was bad news). Wanted me to curb seeing her, more and more. Then other friends and guys in my life. My relationships were under scrutiny. But he did what he wanted, with whom he wanted, and didn't explain himself to me. Eventually I'd make excuses for not seeing or talking to my friends, cuz obviously I didn't want to say it was because he told me I couldn't. Somehow it became normal (slowly and subtly), he loved me, wanted me for himself, couldn't handle the other relationships because he was scared of losing me etc etc. All because of HOW MUCH he loved and needed me. That's powerful stuff. He played right into what I wanted to hear.
Yet, here and there I'd catch him in a lie, or a friend told me they saw him somewhere with a girl when he'd told me he was doing something else. He explained it all away if I confronted him. Made so much sense by the time he was finished, or he'd get angry until I conceded. Didn't I love him? Of course I had gut feelings of discomfort, but I didn't want to lose him. He groomed me to be dependent, and I was young and impressionable. When we'd fight he would call me names, and then apologize profusely and I'd forgive him. He'd get violent with guys for even talking to me in bars.
When we were in university in the dorms, he got drunk during a party and I lost him for awhile - went looking and found him walking the halls with a girl - again that gut feeling - and I chose to ignore it. Found out later he did sleep with her; some people knew and never told me.
I didn't listen to my intuition. The progression was slow and started off with 'seemingly' innocent requests. I have ignored that voice in some situations now with my husband (who is an early stage alcoholic but almost the complete opposite of my ex, not angry, abusive, jealous etc.) and with al anon I'm slowly learning to listen to that little voice and not be so dismissive. After all, I'm my best, and only advocate! If I choose to ignore that voice, then I choose to live a life that I know is not authentic to me. So why do I feel that I can ignore myself to spare someone else? This comes to mind - we get a creepy feeling to step into an isolated elevator at night with only one man standing in it - and we ignore it cuz we don't want to make him feel like we're scared of him (and what if there IS something to be scared of?) This is how I was groomed to think and what I'm actively trying to change.
Listen to what your gut is saying. You've had a lot of opinions here, but you will know what resonates the deepest. It may be very scary because admitting that could mean the end of a relationship that you want (or wish for). I can't tell you what you should do, but please be true to yourself. Best of luck. Sorry this is so long!
Similar stuff that I'm hearing from you. Didn't like one of my gf's. Reason why (in retrospect) is because I listened to her, and he didn't like her to influence me (i.e to tell me he was bad news). Wanted me to curb seeing her, more and more. Then other friends and guys in my life. My relationships were under scrutiny. But he did what he wanted, with whom he wanted, and didn't explain himself to me. Eventually I'd make excuses for not seeing or talking to my friends, cuz obviously I didn't want to say it was because he told me I couldn't. Somehow it became normal (slowly and subtly), he loved me, wanted me for himself, couldn't handle the other relationships because he was scared of losing me etc etc. All because of HOW MUCH he loved and needed me. That's powerful stuff. He played right into what I wanted to hear.
Yet, here and there I'd catch him in a lie, or a friend told me they saw him somewhere with a girl when he'd told me he was doing something else. He explained it all away if I confronted him. Made so much sense by the time he was finished, or he'd get angry until I conceded. Didn't I love him? Of course I had gut feelings of discomfort, but I didn't want to lose him. He groomed me to be dependent, and I was young and impressionable. When we'd fight he would call me names, and then apologize profusely and I'd forgive him. He'd get violent with guys for even talking to me in bars.
When we were in university in the dorms, he got drunk during a party and I lost him for awhile - went looking and found him walking the halls with a girl - again that gut feeling - and I chose to ignore it. Found out later he did sleep with her; some people knew and never told me.
I didn't listen to my intuition. The progression was slow and started off with 'seemingly' innocent requests. I have ignored that voice in some situations now with my husband (who is an early stage alcoholic but almost the complete opposite of my ex, not angry, abusive, jealous etc.) and with al anon I'm slowly learning to listen to that little voice and not be so dismissive. After all, I'm my best, and only advocate! If I choose to ignore that voice, then I choose to live a life that I know is not authentic to me. So why do I feel that I can ignore myself to spare someone else? This comes to mind - we get a creepy feeling to step into an isolated elevator at night with only one man standing in it - and we ignore it cuz we don't want to make him feel like we're scared of him (and what if there IS something to be scared of?) This is how I was groomed to think and what I'm actively trying to change.
Listen to what your gut is saying. You've had a lot of opinions here, but you will know what resonates the deepest. It may be very scary because admitting that could mean the end of a relationship that you want (or wish for). I can't tell you what you should do, but please be true to yourself. Best of luck. Sorry this is so long!
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Northern KY
Posts: 168
I would say it could be a start in a controlling relationship. That's how mine started.
He would say my friends were "bad influences", and all the while he was going to girly bars, hanging out with drug dealers and I later found out selling some drugs on the side. But MY friends were bad influences? Yeah, right.
I would definately be on a heightened alert if someone stated that to me again.
He would say my friends were "bad influences", and all the while he was going to girly bars, hanging out with drug dealers and I later found out selling some drugs on the side. But MY friends were bad influences? Yeah, right.
I would definately be on a heightened alert if someone stated that to me again.
Recovering Codependant
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Liverpool, Great Britain
Posts: 1,335
I personally see control. Coming from a relationship where my abf was mentally abusive, I now identify someone TELLING me what I can and cannot do as abusive controlling behaviour.
I am an adult. I can decide who I have in my life and who I do not. I can decide where me and a friend go to when we do go out.
I do not see this as a boundary.
Boundaries are for ME not anyone else.
Boundaries are for MY serenity not someone else's.
Boundaries are to give ME peace, not to CONTROL someone else's behaviour, or attempt to do so.
If my partner has a particular dislike to my friend, they can by all means share their opinion, but the ultimate decision on whether I DECIDE to be with that friend or not is MINE and no one else's. Then my partner has a choice, if they do not like my choice to interact with someone or in places they do not agree with, they can INTERNALLY enforce a boundary. Of the top of my head, something along the lines of, when she goes out with such and such to that place that I do not like, I will take myself out for the evening and treat me to something, or, I will remove myself from the relationship.
The thing with a boundary is that how we choose to enforce them is NEVER done with the hope of ''if I do this, it will force them to do what I WANT'' it is always a way for us to keep our serenity and peace.
There are excellent threads about Abuse and Boundaries in the stickies for anyone wishing to go further into this topic.
Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I am an adult. I can decide who I have in my life and who I do not. I can decide where me and a friend go to when we do go out.
I do not see this as a boundary.
Boundaries are for ME not anyone else.
Boundaries are for MY serenity not someone else's.
Boundaries are to give ME peace, not to CONTROL someone else's behaviour, or attempt to do so.
If my partner has a particular dislike to my friend, they can by all means share their opinion, but the ultimate decision on whether I DECIDE to be with that friend or not is MINE and no one else's. Then my partner has a choice, if they do not like my choice to interact with someone or in places they do not agree with, they can INTERNALLY enforce a boundary. Of the top of my head, something along the lines of, when she goes out with such and such to that place that I do not like, I will take myself out for the evening and treat me to something, or, I will remove myself from the relationship.
The thing with a boundary is that how we choose to enforce them is NEVER done with the hope of ''if I do this, it will force them to do what I WANT'' it is always a way for us to keep our serenity and peace.
There are excellent threads about Abuse and Boundaries in the stickies for anyone wishing to go further into this topic.
Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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