Why Do They Waste Their Breath?
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bend OR
Posts: 197
Why Do They Waste Their Breath?
Grrr....
I don't understand. My A and I haven't really been talking lately. Well today - completely random - I get a text that says " I need to quit drinking. I'm f*cked up."
Me - "What'd you do now?"
A - "Nothing. I'm just out of control, broke, no gas, and scared of where I'm headed."
Me - "Well then it looks like you have some choices you need to make for yourself"
A - "I just don't know what to do."
Me - "Yes you do."
Some more back and forth I said - "Why don't you try one weekend without drinking? I will keep you company as long as you're sober."
He replies with "I doubt that I can. It's f*cked up, I wish I could quit dirnking but I don't want to NOT drink."
Me - "Well that's your choice. You have a lot to lose ya know. Sometimes need and want are two different things and we all gotta grow up sometime and do what we NEED to do."
A - "I know."
:chatter
AHHH!!! I am sure I didn't say all the right things. I didn't come to ask what I should have said or done. I want to know WHY THE HELL DO A'S EXPRESS THIS OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER BUT NEVER EVEN GIVE AN OUNCE OF EFFORT?
If they "know" where their life is headed, or if they "know" what they NEED to do - why can't they get help - or just don't frickin tell me about it when no action will be taken!!!! CHOOSE YOUR LIFE AND KNOW THAT YOU CHOSE IT! That's what I want to scream at him! Don't whine about it - YOU can choose to change YOUR life. I can't so don't come to me crying about it!
Ugh. Sorry. Just angry. Obviously sad - because as much as I would like to "help" I know I can't, and I know I won't. It isn't my job - it's his. I wish I could engrave that into his mind.
Thanks for listening....
I don't understand. My A and I haven't really been talking lately. Well today - completely random - I get a text that says " I need to quit drinking. I'm f*cked up."
Me - "What'd you do now?"
A - "Nothing. I'm just out of control, broke, no gas, and scared of where I'm headed."
Me - "Well then it looks like you have some choices you need to make for yourself"
A - "I just don't know what to do."
Me - "Yes you do."
Some more back and forth I said - "Why don't you try one weekend without drinking? I will keep you company as long as you're sober."
He replies with "I doubt that I can. It's f*cked up, I wish I could quit dirnking but I don't want to NOT drink."
Me - "Well that's your choice. You have a lot to lose ya know. Sometimes need and want are two different things and we all gotta grow up sometime and do what we NEED to do."
A - "I know."
:chatter
AHHH!!! I am sure I didn't say all the right things. I didn't come to ask what I should have said or done. I want to know WHY THE HELL DO A'S EXPRESS THIS OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER BUT NEVER EVEN GIVE AN OUNCE OF EFFORT?
If they "know" where their life is headed, or if they "know" what they NEED to do - why can't they get help - or just don't frickin tell me about it when no action will be taken!!!! CHOOSE YOUR LIFE AND KNOW THAT YOU CHOSE IT! That's what I want to scream at him! Don't whine about it - YOU can choose to change YOUR life. I can't so don't come to me crying about it!
Ugh. Sorry. Just angry. Obviously sad - because as much as I would like to "help" I know I can't, and I know I won't. It isn't my job - it's his. I wish I could engrave that into his mind.
Thanks for listening....
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
because they are sick
it takes what it takes, I know it's hard, but I think that's why they call it "quacking" when a practicing alcoholic talks about their drinking, or relationship, or parenting etc etc
because that's what it is....quack quack...sad but true
took me five years from the "decision" to quit, to actually quit, and I'm one of the lucky ones.
it takes what it takes, I know it's hard, but I think that's why they call it "quacking" when a practicing alcoholic talks about their drinking, or relationship, or parenting etc etc
because that's what it is....quack quack...sad but true
took me five years from the "decision" to quit, to actually quit, and I'm one of the lucky ones.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bend OR
Posts: 197
Thank you for your reply. I do understand that he WANTS to quit but it is so frustrating and sad hearing him. I know he wants to someone he wants to stop, and he wants them to hand him a magic pill - no effort involved - and BAM! He's sober!
I so wish that there was something ANYONE could do to take the pain awway from our loved ones..... it's so hard to watch.
I so wish that there was something ANYONE could do to take the pain awway from our loved ones..... it's so hard to watch.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Originally Posted by NeedHelp81 
Thank you for your reply. I do understand that he WANTS to quit but it is so frustrating and sad hearing him. I know he wants to someone he wants to stop, and he wants them to hand him a magic pill - no effort involved - and BAM! He's sober!
I so wish that there was something ANYONE could do to take the pain awway from our loved ones..... it's so hard to watch.
I so wish that there was something ANYONE could do to take the pain awway from our loved ones..... it's so hard to watch.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
Posts: 2,136
There's a saying in the AA rooms about an A having a plan to plan to quit drinking. I listened to this absolute insanity for a very long time:
"I know I have a drinking problem."
"I'll quit drinking if you get a full-time job."
"I KNOW I NEED to quit drinking."
All said in varying degrees of intoxication or sobriety.
The day I was able to quit engaging in what ended as useless, frustrating conversations, I was able to get back on my side of the street, tend to my own issues, and leave the A to figure it out for himself.
I had gone 'round that mountain waaayyyyy too many times. And it lead to absolutely nowhere.
He knows where you stand. He has to figure out for himself where he stands. The next time he tries to draw you into another conversation-going-nowhere-but-crazyville, perhaps you should just end the conversation before it begins going down into abyss via a very slippery slope.
"I know I have a drinking problem."
"I'll quit drinking if you get a full-time job."
"I KNOW I NEED to quit drinking."
All said in varying degrees of intoxication or sobriety.
The day I was able to quit engaging in what ended as useless, frustrating conversations, I was able to get back on my side of the street, tend to my own issues, and leave the A to figure it out for himself.
I had gone 'round that mountain waaayyyyy too many times. And it lead to absolutely nowhere.
He knows where you stand. He has to figure out for himself where he stands. The next time he tries to draw you into another conversation-going-nowhere-but-crazyville, perhaps you should just end the conversation before it begins going down into abyss via a very slippery slope.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
any stage is the quitting stage, like I said "it takes what it takes" and it's different for everyone, some are high bottom drunks, some are low bottom drunks.
I'll go find that writing bbiam
I'll go find that writing bbiam
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
Posts: 2,136
In answer to your question, yes, there IS a quitting stage. There are people on this board who have family members and friends who quit when they were 6 feet under. There are people here who have disengaged from the A in their lives, and the A continues in the downward spiral that never seems to end.
The quitting stage is as unique as the A. It's their own personal bottom. Sadly, as I said, for many A's their bottom is a casket in the ground. I completely agree with Ago ... high bottom or low bottom; it depends on the individual.
The quitting stage is as unique as the A. It's their own personal bottom. Sadly, as I said, for many A's their bottom is a casket in the ground. I completely agree with Ago ... high bottom or low bottom; it depends on the individual.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
worth reading the whole chapter by the way, it's the precursor to Alanon, it's called "to the wives" in the Book "Alcoholics Anonymous"
AA Big Book -- Chapter 8
The problem with which you struggle usually falls within one of four categories:
Your husband may be only a heavy drinker. His drinking may be constant or it may be heavy only on certain occasions. Perhaps he spends too much money for liquor. It may be slowing him up mentally and physically, but he does not see it. Sometimes he is a source of embarrassment to you and his friends. He is positive he can handle his liquor, that it does him no harm, that drinking is necessary in his business. He would probably be insulted if he were called an alcoholic. This world is full of people like him. Some will moderate or stop altogether, and some will not. Of those who keep on, a good number will become true alcoholics after a while.
Your husband is showing lack of control, for he is unable to stay on the water wagon even when he wants to. He often gets entirely out of hand when drinking. He admits this is true, but is positive that he will do better. He has begun to try, with or without your cooperation, various means of moderating or staying dry. Maybe he is beginning to lose his friends. His business may suffer somewhat. He is worried at times, and is becoming aware that he cannot drink like other people. He sometimes drinks in the morning and through the day also, to hold his nervousness in check. He is remorseful after serious drinking bouts and tells you he wants to stop. But when he gets over the spree, he begins to think once more how he can drink moderately next time. We think this person is in danger. These are the earmarks of a real alcoholic. Perhaps he can still tend to business fairly well. He has by no means ruined everything. As we say among ourselves, "He wants to want to stop."
This husband has gone much further than husband number two. Though once like number two he became worse. His friends have slipped away, his home is a near-wreck and he cannot hold a position. Maybe the doctor has been called in, and the weary round of sanitariums and hospitals has begun. He admits he cannot drink like other people, but does not see why. He clings to the notion that he will yet find a way to do so. He may have come to the point where he desperately wants to stop but cannot. His case presents additional questions which we shall try to answer for you. You can be quite hopeful of a situation like this.
You may have a husband of whom you completely despair. He has been placed in one institution after another. He is violent, or appears definitely insane when drunk. Sometimes he drinks on the way home from the hospital. Perhaps he has had delirium tremens. Doctors may shake their heads and advise you to have him committed. Maybe you have already been obliged to put him away. This picture may not be as dark as it looks. Many of our husbands were just as far gone. Yet they got well.
AA Big Book -- Chapter 8
The problem with which you struggle usually falls within one of four categories:
Your husband may be only a heavy drinker. His drinking may be constant or it may be heavy only on certain occasions. Perhaps he spends too much money for liquor. It may be slowing him up mentally and physically, but he does not see it. Sometimes he is a source of embarrassment to you and his friends. He is positive he can handle his liquor, that it does him no harm, that drinking is necessary in his business. He would probably be insulted if he were called an alcoholic. This world is full of people like him. Some will moderate or stop altogether, and some will not. Of those who keep on, a good number will become true alcoholics after a while.
Your husband is showing lack of control, for he is unable to stay on the water wagon even when he wants to. He often gets entirely out of hand when drinking. He admits this is true, but is positive that he will do better. He has begun to try, with or without your cooperation, various means of moderating or staying dry. Maybe he is beginning to lose his friends. His business may suffer somewhat. He is worried at times, and is becoming aware that he cannot drink like other people. He sometimes drinks in the morning and through the day also, to hold his nervousness in check. He is remorseful after serious drinking bouts and tells you he wants to stop. But when he gets over the spree, he begins to think once more how he can drink moderately next time. We think this person is in danger. These are the earmarks of a real alcoholic. Perhaps he can still tend to business fairly well. He has by no means ruined everything. As we say among ourselves, "He wants to want to stop."
This husband has gone much further than husband number two. Though once like number two he became worse. His friends have slipped away, his home is a near-wreck and he cannot hold a position. Maybe the doctor has been called in, and the weary round of sanitariums and hospitals has begun. He admits he cannot drink like other people, but does not see why. He clings to the notion that he will yet find a way to do so. He may have come to the point where he desperately wants to stop but cannot. His case presents additional questions which we shall try to answer for you. You can be quite hopeful of a situation like this.
You may have a husband of whom you completely despair. He has been placed in one institution after another. He is violent, or appears definitely insane when drunk. Sometimes he drinks on the way home from the hospital. Perhaps he has had delirium tremens. Doctors may shake their heads and advise you to have him committed. Maybe you have already been obliged to put him away. This picture may not be as dark as it looks. Many of our husbands were just as far gone. Yet they got well.
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bend OR
Posts: 197
Thank you guys for replying.
I know I am headed from Crazyville to Insane-town! Haha.
It's just nuts how long this can go on for - FOREVER! I am trying very hard to stay focused on myself. Keyword : TRYING. It is very much a struggle, and I mess up often, but the one and perhaps the most important thing I know is : I cannot save him from himself. Only he can. I will never forget this in any aspect of my life again. And I am in a way somewhat thankful that his crazy journey that I was a sidekick in for so long has provided me with a lot of insight as to MY OWN PERSONAL HAPPINESS.
I know I am headed from Crazyville to Insane-town! Haha.
It's just nuts how long this can go on for - FOREVER! I am trying very hard to stay focused on myself. Keyword : TRYING. It is very much a struggle, and I mess up often, but the one and perhaps the most important thing I know is : I cannot save him from himself. Only he can. I will never forget this in any aspect of my life again. And I am in a way somewhat thankful that his crazy journey that I was a sidekick in for so long has provided me with a lot of insight as to MY OWN PERSONAL HAPPINESS.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: florida
Posts: 269
if you look, its not only alcoholics who "quack", my sister has been talking about leaving her husband now for 18 years, and believe me she talks about it daily, but will never do it , or you take a person that knows they need to lose weight and they sit and talk about wantin to but never get around to it
the same way with an alcoholic, the last time i saw my AH, i seen him at his work and he was talking about AA and wanting to go, then later that day i seen him and he was drinking, i asked what about AA, hes like oh well i dont have the information for it yet, all he does is QUACK
the same way with an alcoholic, the last time i saw my AH, i seen him at his work and he was talking about AA and wanting to go, then later that day i seen him and he was drinking, i asked what about AA, hes like oh well i dont have the information for it yet, all he does is QUACK
To Thine Own Self Be True
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,946
I just wanted to say NeedHelp, that I think you did just fine in your responses. In fact, I think that your statement that "Why don't you try one weekend without drinking? I will keep you company as long as you're sober" was absolutely wonderful! He now knows where to go when he is ready. Unfortunately, you can not make him ready.
Keep your chin up, YOU are doing fine
Keep your chin up, YOU are doing fine
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
When I started to try and change myself, I found just how difficult it is. It's much easier to stay the same. Why would it be any different for an alcoholic? I would imagine it might be tougher since it involves a chemical dependency.
I was aware for a VERY LONG time that I was in an unhealthy situation and said so. What did I do about it? More of the same - for years.
I was aware for a VERY LONG time that I was in an unhealthy situation and said so. What did I do about it? More of the same - for years.
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: MO
Posts: 743
Originally Posted by NeedHelp81
Me - "Well then it looks like you have some choices you need to make for yourself"
A - "I just don't know what to do."
Me - "Yes you do."
Some more back and forth I said - "Why don't you try one weekend without drinking? I will keep you company as long as you're sober."
He replies with "I doubt that I can. It's f*cked up, I wish I could quit dirnking but I don't want to NOT drink."
Me - "Well that's your choice. You have a lot to lose ya know. Sometimes need and want are two different things and we all gotta grow up sometime and do what we NEED to do."
A - "I know."
Yikes.... this really spoke to me. I could have the entire conversation with myself. The only difference would be instead of all of the places you've written "drinking" replace with "obscess about drinking". I really am every bit as much of an addict as my AH, aren't I?
I think a lightbulb just went on.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
Hiya NeedHelp81
Next time he tells you he "doesn't know what to do" text him this number
(541) 548-0440
AA Hotline for Central OR. If he gives them a ring-a-ding-a-ling they'll have a pretty great offer of a FREE program that has helped millions of alcoholics find recovery & sobriety.
The first step in recovery is reaching out and asking for and accepting help -- but not from US!! From other recovering alcoholics or addiction counselors etc.
You giving him that number is pretty much ALL you can do. It's really up to him. Many hands will reach out once he does.
Great to hear you're trying to keep the focus on yourself and your own problems. It IS hard isn't it!!??
But you sound like you are making some forward progress in your recovery!
Stay strong.
Peace,
B.
Next time he tells you he "doesn't know what to do" text him this number
(541) 548-0440
AA Hotline for Central OR. If he gives them a ring-a-ding-a-ling they'll have a pretty great offer of a FREE program that has helped millions of alcoholics find recovery & sobriety.
The first step in recovery is reaching out and asking for and accepting help -- but not from US!! From other recovering alcoholics or addiction counselors etc.
You giving him that number is pretty much ALL you can do. It's really up to him. Many hands will reach out once he does.
Great to hear you're trying to keep the focus on yourself and your own problems. It IS hard isn't it!!??
But you sound like you are making some forward progress in your recovery!
Stay strong.
Peace,
B.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bend OR
Posts: 197
Thank you everyone! I actually feel proud of myself! I went and saw him last night, he was sober but was just depressed! He looked like a sad little puppy dog that ran around for 5 days straight - and was just drained. I could just tell he was emotionally drained. It's very hard to see the sadness in someone's eyes - that they are choosing to live with. I felt so bad, but I did what you all said to do - Just listened! It was truly our first face to face conversation (mainly him really) about his problems. He just laid there on my chest with tears in his eyes, and I just listened. I didn't tell him what he should do - I did however tell him that he is the only one that can fix what's hurting so bad right now. Not me. He just nodded and said he knew.
I know the ball isn't rolling yet, and maybe it won't ever. But at least the wheels are turning in his head and his denial is washing away. I feel like although it is NOWHERE close to where he needs to be - atleast the thought is there. Hopefully he will gain some motivation and confidence and a little self-worth and get himself the help he needs.
Thank you all so much for listening to me. It really helps.
I know the ball isn't rolling yet, and maybe it won't ever. But at least the wheels are turning in his head and his denial is washing away. I feel like although it is NOWHERE close to where he needs to be - atleast the thought is there. Hopefully he will gain some motivation and confidence and a little self-worth and get himself the help he needs.
Thank you all so much for listening to me. It really helps.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wizard Land Downunder
Posts: 2,615
Dear Lord, sounded just as the last hundred or so times for my ABF and I over 18 years. I had said "this is the last time etc" so often and little result. Last time I didn't say it. I told him I was stepping away for my sake and his, that I had done no good in the past and in fact realised that my "loving caring" was just enabling the hell to continue. If he needed help he knew the ropes better than I did, and it was up to him to get it. Stayed with him while he went thru withdrawal, (read a book mostly) in case he needed ambulance, then when he was done, albeit looking like death warmed up, I went home.
He has been to D & A counseling and is sober still. Maybe this time will be it for him.
He has been to D & A counseling and is sober still. Maybe this time will be it for him.
Looking for the silver lining
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: South Florida
Posts: 243
Needshelp...
I just wanted to make a post because I know that we have been focusing on your qualifer. I just wanted to make mention that I have seen some BIG HUGE ABUNDANT growth here on your part. You say that you probably didn't say all the right things, well perhaps, but only you know that. However, I see such growth in you, and it is emerging in leaps and bounds.
I have read your posts for quite some time, and I just see how you are coming along. I just wanted to focus on that. In previous posts, I have seen you anguish over his struggle and his disease...today, I see detachment with love. Support, not help.
I was at an Al Anon meeting today, and the subject was about being gentle with ourselves. In the midst of his struggle, I just wanted you to take a moment a give yourself a little recognition. Today, you have a program...you might not follow it perfectly, but you have it, and you are working it the best way you can. Give yourself a hug and say it is from me...:ghug3
I just wanted to make a post because I know that we have been focusing on your qualifer. I just wanted to make mention that I have seen some BIG HUGE ABUNDANT growth here on your part. You say that you probably didn't say all the right things, well perhaps, but only you know that. However, I see such growth in you, and it is emerging in leaps and bounds.
I have read your posts for quite some time, and I just see how you are coming along. I just wanted to focus on that. In previous posts, I have seen you anguish over his struggle and his disease...today, I see detachment with love. Support, not help.
I was at an Al Anon meeting today, and the subject was about being gentle with ourselves. In the midst of his struggle, I just wanted you to take a moment a give yourself a little recognition. Today, you have a program...you might not follow it perfectly, but you have it, and you are working it the best way you can. Give yourself a hug and say it is from me...:ghug3
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 126
I went to an AA meeting with my RAS and his RAGF thursday night and got to talking to my sons sponsor. The topic at this meeting was resentment and dealing with it, I believe it is the 4th step?, anyway, I was lucky in the sense that my son got the courage to put himself in treatment before I got the courage to seek help for my co-dependency issues. I was lucky, because this isn't always the case. The resentment I feel towards myself and the choices I made while he was growing up, have hobbled me in my recovery and kept me from doing what I need to do for me and what I need to do to support my son in his recovery.
What I took from this meeting was, as long as I am making choices that come out of honesty and faith then I have nothing to feel resentment for. It is only when I decide to try and take control from someone else that is when I start doubting myself and then everything goes wrong.
I think you acted out of honesty and faith in the choices you made in this situation, and I applaud you for your awesome courage and steadfast faith.
Barb
What I took from this meeting was, as long as I am making choices that come out of honesty and faith then I have nothing to feel resentment for. It is only when I decide to try and take control from someone else that is when I start doubting myself and then everything goes wrong.
I think you acted out of honesty and faith in the choices you made in this situation, and I applaud you for your awesome courage and steadfast faith.
Barb
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