Reddmax

Okay.... I'm making arrangements for a split.

The AW is not in favor of this plan.

I have told her that if she finds recovery, and I'm free, I would be glad to reconsider a relationship. How do I state this to her? Should I be specific about what she needs to do, or should I be general in what she needs to do?

Any ideas for those that have had similar situations?

By the way, I'm standing my ground. I'm not living the way I have been living for the last 2 years.

Redd

LaTeeDa

This is all you have to say. I found if I tried to tell him what he should do, then he would do it. But it wasn't enough for me.

In other words, if you say go to counseling, go to AA, stop drinking, etc. There is a good chance she will half-heartedly do those things just to get what she wants (you to change your mind). Then I ended up feeling like I had painted myself into a corner. Because now I felt obligated not to leave because he was "doing what I asked."

I finally just said "you do whatever you want," and "I will do what I have to do." What a relief it was to give his choices back to him.

L

GiveLove

For me, that conversation was a minefield. He thought there was hope, so he did exactly what I laid out he "needed" to do, got me back, and proceeded to go back to his old ways. When we finally split, he was still after a list of conditions, steps he could take to get me back. It was a nightmare.

I don't know that this is a conversation you need to have right now, Redd. You're not even gone yet. What purpose does it serve, except to make you feel better? If she was going to take steps toward recovery in a meaningful way, wouldn't she do it NOW, so you don't leave? Why dangle the carrot?

ToughChoices

I really don't think that laying down the "conditions for return" will be helpful for anyone in the situation.

I had to accept the fact that I didn't know what my husband needed to do in order to improve his life.
I don't know his path, so I am not in a position to tell him what he needs.
Hell, most days I can hardly figure out what I need.

Plus, I don't want to be partners with someone who can't figure out how to take care of themselves - who needs me to set up rules and regulations for their life.

Let her be, Redd.
Give it time, and see what happens.

Freedom1990

I think you've already said enough to her, Redd. Just my piddly two cents.

Pajarito

I was so appalled by what led up to our split, and like your situation it involved infidelity, that I just took a step back and decided I was not going to tell him anything. I decided it was up to HIM to do what he felt he needed to do. I wasn't going to tell him how to live his life- I wanted to see what he would do when he didn't have me telling him what I needed or wanted him to do. The reality became glaringly clear- he did nothing. He expected me to take him back and let him do what he wanted without any question- take all the blame for our problems, and just sweep everything under the rug. For me it was all about patience- with myself and with the situation. For the first time in a long time I was letting him be who he really was, and it wasn't pretty. When left to his own devices he did n-o-t-h-i-n-g. That gave me time to take care of me and dd, and decide what I wanted. A helluva lot more than nothing!

miss communicat

My experience wants to answer your question with a couple of rhetorical questions (no answer required)

What is it within you that needs to have her agreement on this decision?
Can you try to take your hands off the steering wheel and eyes off her progress for today?

blessed4x

Thank you LTD! Redd, really think about this. It is what I have done and it is so true. He is doing what I have asked and is miserable and making us all that way. It's like the martyr role has jumped from me to him. Believe me, I KNOW how hard it is, I bet we all do or we wouldn't have found each other here.

Think of how freeing it sounds to take the advice of those here and let your AW make her own choices and live with her own consequences. Think of all of the things you will accomplish when you are not spending this amount of energy on the drama in your home. I bet there will be no stopping you!!

Kitkatt

Redd,
I agree you have said it all already. If she means it ..she will do it for herself. I have had my AH promise me over and over he was done with drinking and wanted to get healthy and live a good life...it would last a couple of weeks and boom back to the beer. I just set myself up for more hurt and dissapointment. When I don't seem to care if he drinks himself to death...he wonders why...i don't nag anymore. They need you to babysit them like a parent. I want a real man that doesn't need someone to tell him how to run his life and make good choices. Emotionally I have already left him...which helps me to care about me more and what I want.
God bless

FormerDoormat

When I ended my relationship with Richard, I simply said, "I'm done." Because I was.

Ago

I can't even convey how much I agree with these sentiments, and how they match my experience

I laid down "conditions" for my ex, she met them and came back, but within a short period of time, a few months, we were right back where we started.

It was horrible, then when we parted it was not pretty for anyone, lots of blame, and fingerpointing on both sides.

We just brought out the worst in each other, and...it just didn't work and hurt us both very badly, well it hurt me, I actually have no idea how she is, we don't talk.

But I chose to work on myself, what she does is up to her, and I wish her the best now, I really do, I still can get worked up about what happened, but the truth is she is just a child of God, just like I am, doing the best she can. She was going to meetings, had started working with a sponsor, but the truth is her drinking had nothing to do with our problems, it was our "core issues". Both of us. removing the alcohol was a start but ...it got worse, a lot worse.

I do want to congratulate you on setting a boundary and sticking to it, but I'm confused, Why wasn't she allowed to talk to her "Ex", I have to say, if someone starting laying conditions down about who I was allowed and not allowed to talk to I'd be GONE like a shot, but I was an alky before I was alanoned, and I'm probably hyper sensitive to people trying to "control" me and dictating who I can and can't see and talk to in a relationship. if my partner doesn't trust me to behave appropiately we have no business being together.

Anyway, the bottom line is, congratulations on taking care of yourself, it's what I had to do in order to retain my sanity as well, now the real work has begun of me being able to focus on me and get some "recovery" under my belt, and every day gets better, it really does.

Reddmax

Ago,

If this was a normal healthy relationship, I'd agree. The problem in this is that there were instances in the past where there was inappropriate behavior. I have to protect myself.

Basically, the relationship developed into some type of affair (either emotional or physical), and the only way I (and every therapist I've ever talked to) say you can heal from that is that the offending partner cut off all contact with the other person. That was the agreement. It's not so much about control as it is respect and consideration.

We all know how alcoholics are with respect and consideration.

Redd

Pajarito

I understand what you are saying Redd- I experienced the same behavior with STBXAH 10 years ago when he had an emotional affair- maybe more- with a classmate. He then had to continue going to school with this woman for 2 more years. I was a wreck. Looking back NOW I know I would NEVER put up with infidelity of any kind. I thought it was a deal breaker when we married, but then I experienced it and somehow the deal breaker went out the window. THAT is something I am working on- the why I put up with having to protect myself. IMHO there's no sense in continuing a relationship if there's the kind of behavior involved that I feel I have to protect myself from. I know there are relationships that survive infidelity- when both parties are willing to work on what got them to that point, but I for one will never put up with it again.

Ago

Thank you for answering that, I did run through some scenarios in my head (busy place) and came up with quite a few in which setting that as a boundary was completely appropriate, I'd really like to thank you for answering that, and I'd also like to apologize for my tactlessness and boorishness in asking that question at such a sensitive time.

Please accept my heartfelt apology and do know I am "on your side" as I just walked away from my dysfunctional relationship recently as well and know how hard it can be.

I'm just at this phase of healing I'm like a pit bull looking for my dysfunctional behaviors, and I recognized a TON of my behaviors in you, so I've been following your story intently, but, in my opinion, I crossed the "boundary of poor taste" in asking you that question, similar to "so what color WAS the truck that hit you" as you lay bleeding on the side of the road, so please accept my apology, and a "manly man" hug of support for your ordeal.

Stay strong my brother, it really does get better, I promise.

Rainbowgirl128

That phrase, "You can't love another person until you love yourself" is a cliche i guess, but it is true. It is hard to contribute to a relationship when you cannot stand on your own two feet. In my experience, active addiction involves a lot of self loathing, self pity, and a constant feeling of defeat. I maintained a relationship during my drinking days (which by the way, i am sober now, but have not been for that long). Anyway, the relationship was characterized by chaos because I was so insecure with what was going on in my own life. I am currently still "seeing" my SO but it is not the same exclusive intense commitment. I realized that I needed to get completely sober, find out what makes me happy, and be comfortable in my own skin before i could make any promises to anybody.

Your AW does not need you to tell her why you are not happy Redd, she already knows. She also knows how to fix it (most of us do), but she may not be ready to take the personal responsibility that is so important in order to recover. As LaTeeDa said, I would strongly discourage you from giving her a list of steps to take, because then she is doing it for you and not herself. You are right to leave it at "I am not living like this anymore." If she gets and stays sober, im sure you will hear from her down the road. Good luck and keep us updated on what happens :ghug

YellowRed

I agree with LTD and others who've posted here that giving conditions/criteria is usually disasterous because the only person who is hemmed in by them is you... Generaly the As are very good at meeting those bare minimum conditions and then turning the tables on you by saying, "look, I did all the things YOU wanted me to do; it was HARDf or me to do it but I did it to PROVE it to YOU and now you're PUNISHING me by CHANGING THE TERMS of the agreement we had. You OWE it to me to get back together (or whatever the 'agreement' was)". Given their manipulative ways, I found in similar situations that I felt very guilty when the half hearted attempts / paying lip service to AA meetings etc didn't seem like enough (because they weren't true recovery; gestures felt empty), and it was difficult to argue against.

The other thing I found is that you might just find out once you extract yourself from the situation, that you don't even want them back even if they DO clean up and get sober/find recovery. My own experience was that I found I had blamed the alcohol and his being an alcoholic for so many of our problems. I now see that it was certainly an illness which magnified certain character traits, but if I'm honest with myself, many of those character traits (which I don't like) were there in the first place. Honestly too, I've now learned that I could never trust him again, and living with someone who lied constantly means I can't ever go back to that. trust is fundamental for me and that trust was betrayed too many times.

Once I'd left, it was clear to me that even if he finds recovery (not yet!), then whilst that's going to be great to see (after all I loved him for a very long time) and fantastic that our kids will have a dad who can do more stuff with them, I certainly won't be going back. Being removed from living with him every day helped me to see how much manipulation etc I was living with and it's easier now to see how unacceptable that sitaution is/was.

If you make an 'agreement' with your A, you can be pretty certain he/she will hold you to your side of that 'contract'. Why would you want to limit your options in that way?

Fundamentally, the A needs to decide for themselves that they want to change for it to really work in my experience. I conducted an intervention with my STBXAH and get him into rehab but because it was a "rehab or us" type situation he just stayed the course and then went back to drnking afterwards, having 'proved' he could do a month of rehab 'for me'. It didn't sink in with him and he didn't 'get it'. I really hoped being sober for that period of time and intensively working the 12 steps would make him 'see the light' but in my case it didn't.

So I think you need to 'let go and let God'. There are two sides to this: (1) you need to let her make her own choices about her life and her recovery; and (2) you need to make your own choices about what you want to do/how you will move on - you're not making your own choices if you are looking for her agreement or approval.

This is all really hard and I wish you all the best of luck - and most of all serenity - in making these decisions. When I finally woke up to what I had to do, a tremendous sense of calm came over me and everything seemed quite achievable and I didn't need to panic (I'm usually a bit of a stress-head so this was a novel experience!).

Hope you manage to take stock and make some decisions for yourself that you are comfortable with. You have already started to make some real headway. best of luck.

nowinsituation

YellowRed - Your post almost exactly recounts the last year of my life. It is so, so, true; but I never could have imagined a year ago how peaceful and happy my life would be.

freshstart

Personally I wouldn't give terms. It's too easy for an addict or an alcoholic to hold onto those and try recovery for someone else. I would just say that she needs help....you want to support her in that.....you can't stay in the madness and you have to separate yourself from the situation. That she has to find recovery and herself in order stay alive. That you make no promises or even guesses at what will happen if she does this but that you know that it's whats best. If she is ready to find recovery on her own she will do it and all you can do is watch and wait if you want to. If she isn't ready she won't. I wouldn't give terms though. She needs to find it on her own and for her own reasons. IMO. Good luck.

shellygirl

Don't you think she already knows this? I even told my ex AH a month ago " you know if you ever quit there might still be a chance" but I have to tell you the farther the way I get from the chaos, the more I see that may not be true. There are kind, decent, real, loving, healthy people out there for us to spend our lives with.
I've seen who you are on here, as I have with the rest of you. We are all wonderful caring souls who deserve happiness and joy. We need to give ourselves a chance and a hope for that and truly let go of the people in our lives that don't want to get well for I believe they are sapping the life out of us.