TTOSBT

I definitely do not mean to speak for anyone else. I apologize if it came across that way.

bookwyrm

I recommend the book 'Under the Influence'. I found it to be extremely useful in describing all the different stages of alcoholism. It goes through the physiological and psychological changes in the different stages of alcoholism and should be able to answer some of your questions about this disease.

Bernadette

Hey sorry, formychildren-- didn't mean to hijack your tnread-- I guess I'm the one who spoke maybe too positively about divorce?

I apologize and as I said in my post I certainly am not a champion of divorce.

I really brought it up in response to Techie's post about her children suffering because of "divorce."

I just wanted to remind everyine that children suffer in the alcoholic/codie dynamic marriage as well and it is good to be aware of that and not in denial.

Obviously there are ways for kids/teens to learn to cope with having an actively alcoholic parent in an intact family. If the non-alcoholic parent is very healthy and realistic and the kids can speak their minds and get help - it's just not often the case.

I have memories from a very young age (starting in 1st grade) of my father's drinking. And of my mother's covering up for him and enabling him and all around codependent behavior. And the drama and denial only got worse as I got older. The hypocrisy nearly drove me mad. There was no one around to be in REALITY with me or my siblings.

Formychildren- you've found a good place here - and I was not advocating divorce for anyone - I simply don't think it has to be looked at as some kind of nuclear destruction. As I told my children - this is not the worst thing that could happen to us!! Much good comes out of divorce - and some folks have an irrational fear of it when in fact it is a legal and often sane decision.

I did not mean to alarm or offend. And I agree w/ Bookwyrm Under the influence is a great book for understanding the reality of what alcohol is doing to the brain and body and what alcoholism is.

Peace-
B.

ToughChoices

Divorce is not a quick and easy solution.
There is no quick and easy solution.
I really didn't mean to imply that at all.

When my husband's drinking problem first became apparent, I was extremely sympathetic. I wanted to help.
Still, in spite of my best efforts, his drinking escalated.
I was SO angry - he endangered our child, he lied and missed work.

At one point I really thought that just kicking him to the curb and calling it a day was my very best option. I thought he was causing all the problems in my life, and if I could just get a divorce, I could go back to being alright.

I have learned better.

He is not the source of my pain (although a few problems do originate in his general direction), and I had to learn how to help myself while my husband struggled through his own brand of hell.

I love my spouse, and I am still married. We had an excellent and loving relationship before alcohlism entered the picture, and there's still an intense connection between us. We are currently living apart as I cannot live with his drinking, and he is unable to live without it. We may need to divorce, but
I do not take marriage or divorce lightly. I am attempting to explore all of my options before that step is taken.

I just want you to know how very similar your story is to mine. How much I questioned if he was truly an alcoholic, and how often I wondered if he was enjoying the time (without alcohol) we spent with friends.

You sound like a loving, honorable man.
I wish you the very best.

-TC

shellygirl

As someone who recently got divorced I would just like to say that I think you are in a totally different place than I was. I'm probably a lot older, our children are almost grown and my husband was cheating on me - totally different situation than yours. The beauty of coming here for support is that we all have different stories, different situations and different lives but we have one thing in common. That one thing ties us together and bonds us in a way that only we understand. Always know you can come here and talk to us because sometimes this is all we have. No question or comment is silly or out of line because we have been there. When I went to my first Al anon meeting 22 years ago I asked them when they were going to tell me how I could get my fiance to quit drinking? Love your wife, enjoy your family...keep coming back, try to go to meetings, read. We are with you!!

Silverberry1331

Hi Formychildren,

I understand your sentiments. For me, I am separated from my husband. This was something I personally would have never imagined, and it is only due to the circumstance of my situation that things are like this. Infidelity and other factors contributed. However, it was a very personal, unique decision.

Although we share a common thread: we are all affected by someone's drinking...each way it manifests is unique. Some have live with violent alcoholics. Others, like mine, have depressive alcoholics. Some come home and find their alcoholic passed out on the floor. Others had absolutely no idea there was even drinking until it came to a crisis. Some people have a loving relationship with their alcoholic and others can't stand the sight of theirs. Each situation is unique and each one is handled different.

Therefore, I give you the ultimate saying from Al Anon: Take what you like and leave the rest...Take the meat, and leave the bones. Whatever encourages you, nourishes you, then take it. Whatever is not useful, doesn't apply, or just doesn't sit well, leave it where you found it, and know that it the advice given was done so in love, but just wasn't applicable.

How can you tell if your wife is an alcoholic? That is something you will conclude in your own time. Al Anon suggests you read up on the disease as much as you can. You can never really learn enough. Keep learning.

In the meantime, keep coming back. With the challenges you are facing right now, it is a good support group, and in very few places can such a truly caring, selfless group can be found. I think this board brings out the best in each one of us, because here is one of the few places we can be real without fear. Even if you come on as what I call a ghost (AKA not logged in, but as a guest). Keep coming back.

In time, with guidance and your higher power, you will find your way. Each of us are praying for the health, happiness, love, peace, sobriety, and success for you, your wife, and your babies. Hope you weekend is full of blessings....

YellowRed

I can't agree with this enough. I was also encouraged at Al-Anon meetings to learn as much as possible about the disease of alcoholism. Through programs I've learned that alcoholics can manifest in many different ways, with varying degrees of 'control' and with varying degrees of visibility. Binge drinker to those who keep themselves 'topped up' constantly - there are no set 'parameters'. Reading as much as possible about alcoholism really opened my eyes for me - there is a lot of great stuff here and on the web in general and plenty of great literature out there - I would really encourage you to read, read, read. Get to an Al-Anon meeting too if you can. best of luck.

baileyboop

Wow!! That pretty much summed me up in my relationship...When we become sick with them, it does become our need, doesn't it?

Thanks for this..

FormerDoormat

This concerns me greatly. Leaving a baby alone in the house (even with a baby monitor) is never an option--and is probably against the law (in Virginia it is--I'm sure it's the same in other states). I value the life and safety of my child much more than I value a night spent with friends.

formychildren

Excuse me?! How dare you insult me and question MY judgement. We were 50 feet away from our front door, outside, walking over to the house to check on them every 15 minutes while they were sound asleep. Not to mention, able to hear every single movement or breath they made. The slightest odd sound sent us walking straight through that front door to check. I came to this forum for support in dealing with my wife's drinking. For the most part, that is what I have received. What we did was not illegal, wrong, or otherwise inappropriate. Maybe you have in your imagination a ghetto-type area where we live - gunshots, screams, sirens, etc. To the contrary, we live in a very safe, close-knit, family-oriented, suburban cul-de-sac. What we did/do is something that everyone in this neighborhood does on a regular basis. No child is ever in danger.

Please keep the focus on my questions/concerns. This is the second post that is beginning to push me further away from this type of support.

Ago

Heya,
There's a saying, "take what you like and leave the rest" it's an important one. What you are dealing with is a VERY emotionally charged situation, and difficult for all concerned, and all posts are meant to be helpful and in a very real way, these posts are like a Rorschach test to people, they run it through their "filter" and apply to their life, then respond according to their experience.

So, the folks who have gone through what you are going through and ended up divorcing, talk about their divorce, so they aren't saying you should get a divorce, they are saying this is what happened for them..

I just had a similar experience yesterday, and responded about the same way you did, but 24 hours later, I read it, I got support, feedback, and a post that made me "see red" and that's the post I concentrated on.

She apologized, said it was "her experience" and it's over.

I just read the "I went next door with the baby monitor" to my gf/xgf/gf who's a mother and her eyes got wide, and her hair all stood straight up, as a mother that's the part she attached to, however, she realizes it's your child, but she was initially also "triggered" by that.

anyway, the point is, take what you need, leave the rest, not every post is going to be "on target" for you, or helpful for you, but many will be.

There's a lot of experience strength and hope here, and you can get tons of help by staying, so pushing away because you don't agree with all posts or flat out just get angry at one or two.....doesn't benefit anyone.

The format of "experience, strength, and hope" is a good one, for me it means, I don't share my opinion, or give advice (as in this is what YOU should do) but rather, this is what happened FOR ME. However, when I read these posts, I need to realize this IS what happened for them, and hopefully try to learn something from it.

getr345

Set up very discreet surveillance equipment in your house and monitor it from your computer at work.

Pajarito

One of the best things I've found in coming here for support is that not everyone is going to agree with me- and that's ok. How freeing is that? I have lived for 45 years trying to convince those around me that I am right, that my opinions should be your opinions, that if you do what I want, all will be ok. It was all about control. No longer.

FD brought up a point which- to be honest- raised a red flag in my mind when I read your post. However- I did not post anything about it. I respect FD's honesty and her willingness to bring to the forefront topics which may be controversial. What I personally got out of her post is CONCERN. I too was concerned, but didn't raise it, because maybe I'm not as far along in this process as she is. I have always been afraid to raise issues as the response may not be agreeable. I'm learning to listen to my gut now and question my own responses to other's opinions- especially when they get my back hair up. Usually when they do there is a reason which I need to explore more carefully.

I've also come to understand that whatever I post is going to be fair game to be picked apart by anyone who decides to respond. I, for one, am grateful for differing opinions and those of us strong enough to call my attention to something I may have missed or may need attending to in order to gain a healthier perspective.

CatsPajamas

FMC,

I hear you and I understand your frustration. It's difficult when we are scattered all over the globe, in different places in our lives both physically and emotionally, different living arrangements etc.

Again, I'd like to remind everyone that we are here to share our own experience, strength and hope in dealing with the effects of alcoholism in our lives and that of our loved ones. It's always best to share from your own experiences, and best to try to remain on topic.

Please take what you like and leave the rest. If someone's posts or responses really bother you, you can always put that person on "ignore" so you don't even have to know that they responded at all.

Thanks.

Cats
Forum Mod

denny57

When I first started my own recovery, I looked for people to tell me I was right and my way was going to work.

Today I am grateful for those who challenged me, helped me question my firmly held beliefs and didn't give a hoot if I liked it or not. They quietly and consistently persevered and I found the courage to change.

felicidade

Dear FMC,

I also felt and feel the way you about divorce. However, I also agree with Bernadette in terms of the reality that alcoholism brought to me and my two children.

I was married (and for a few more weeks still will be) to my STBXRAH for 12 years. I "did not know" about his alcohol "problem" despite all the red flags - flags that seemed to change in hue from lamb pink to blood red, depending on my perspective. In that time, he did most of the things mentioned in these posts, and I responded in the way most of the SO's did too.

Despite the fact that he went from a few beers to driving our children drunk and I allowed it, that he lost his business and I voluntarily shouldered the costs of our family for years, that he stopped loving me and treasuring me for whiskey and the family/friends that shared that addiction and I still hoped that he would realize he needed me, that he told me he loved me and would change because the children and I were the only people who mattered to him.....until he left us....because he "didn't want to be responsible for me" any more and the "pain in [his] heart was too much."

As the child of divorce, I fought it tooth and nail. Quacking all the way to the mediation. Believing he's stop the madness all the way to when he made me pay him equity from the home my father gave me and where I grew up. Believing he'd realize what he was destroying as he mediated visitation and child support to minimal levels. Wondering where was the man I had married, and who was this person would hurt me as he insisted - as he STILL DOES NOW - that he "loves me and wants to work it out so we can be together again."

(Oh yeah! Sometimes, I still believe him:codiepolice)

But with everyday, the healthier me is returning. I am starting to remember my dreams. I am starting to regain my energy for me. I am starting to cry less. I can pay attention to my children who need me and not to someone who ignores me. I am less crazy and more serene.

I refused to get divorced. It happened. It has been a blessing for me and for my children who don't have to see the worst example of parenting. I still love my STBXRAH. (Sober 5 mos). I hope he stays sober for his children. But I am a such a better mom to them - and they know this.

I would never advocate for divorce. I know it is anathema to you. It's happening to me, and I still hate it and can't believe it and feel betrayed by it.

But it has been a blessing to have me back. And not feel so guilty about loving me anymore.

peace and love to you, your wife and your children.

FormerDoormat

When my interests became more focused on what, when, how, and if my boyfriend was drinking than on the safety or well being of my child, I knew I my thinking had become skewed.

formychildren

Is there a "smell" that alcoholics give off? Something that doesn't smell like alcohol, and is not on the breath, but has a sweet & musty odor? It is very pungent.

Silverberry1331

FMC,

This is going to sound REALLY weird, but my husband smelled like steak juice when he drank. I know...strange. Perhaps that the smell of alcohol mixes with the body chemistry and gives off an odor that doesn't smell like what you would expect. Kind of like when you spray perfume on different people, and it smells differently according to the person. For Don, it was a steak smell.

queenteree

FMC,
My AH has alcoholic liver disease and his breath (and body too) got very fruity/musty when he drank. It was due to his liver disesase/toxins building up in his body that the liver couldn't get rid of/hepatic encephalopathy. You can google more on the subject and hopefully suggest to your wife that she go to the dr. and get a full liver function panel done. Let me know how it works out.
Qt