Weekend Update
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Great Lake Country
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Weekend Update
I feel like Dennis Miller with short hair.
The weekend did not degenerate into a free for all like several past weekends.
However, it wasn't pleasant by any means. There is a usual tradition that when driving home from work, we call each other and talk about the day. Friday, that didn't occur. We also have an agreed upon rule, that if you're going to be more than an hour late, you call to let people know. So, after about an hour, I called the SD to see if she had heard from her mother.
Of course not. I get home, talk to the SD, and 15 minutes later, the AW calls. She had gone to the bar for a drink because someone had a birthday, and didn't want to call and be nagged because of something she decided to do. This upset both the SD and myself.
She came home, and proceeded to drink and work on her school stuff. We went to bed.
I tried to talk to her on Saturday, and she said, as usual, give me a chance. That night, she told me she was going to have one glass of wine. Even though we were trying to have a social night, she decided to have 5 glasses of wine.
We then went to bed. The next morning, I tried to speak with her again about it.
Her response was the following: You're not going to control me. This is my problem, and I need to deal with it in my own way.
I then asked her what actions she was willing to do to deal with it, and what timeline I could expect for actions to be taken.
Her response was: I don't know what I'm going to do, when I'm going to do it, and I I'm not going to live my life according to your timetable.
My response was: So, while you're figuring out what you're going to do, I have to take the risk of being abused, or you hurting yourself, or myself, or doing damaging things?
Her: Yes, you have a choice to make. You can either support me in my problem, or you can make other choices.
I replied: Again, do you believe you're in control of your actions? That means you can drink, and control your behavior so you don't do things that damage our relationship?
Her: I haven't done it this week, you need to give me a chance.
Me: I have given you chances, and I will give you more chances. I will not tolerate abuse or you calling your ex-husband.
Her: You're putting so much pressure on me you're making what happens actually worse. You also make this problem much worse than it actually is.
Me: It's your choice to drink, and its your choice to do the other things. How do I make it worse.
Her: Your incessant smothering.
Me: Ok, we're done talking.
and it sort of just drizzled off from there.
She started drinking at 3:30, her kids came over and she calmed down, she continued to drink and passed out at 6:30. She has no memory of anything that happened past about 5:00 PM.
She woke up at 10, we talked a bit. I tried to talk to her this morning, and she said "I'm not talking about it". I got ready for work, kissed her, and went to work.
I'm heartsick, frustrated, angry, and scared. I know the whole conversation above is codependent alkie dance. I have forms to fill out for the attorney...... Nothing changes till it changes.
Redd
The weekend did not degenerate into a free for all like several past weekends.
However, it wasn't pleasant by any means. There is a usual tradition that when driving home from work, we call each other and talk about the day. Friday, that didn't occur. We also have an agreed upon rule, that if you're going to be more than an hour late, you call to let people know. So, after about an hour, I called the SD to see if she had heard from her mother.
Of course not. I get home, talk to the SD, and 15 minutes later, the AW calls. She had gone to the bar for a drink because someone had a birthday, and didn't want to call and be nagged because of something she decided to do. This upset both the SD and myself.
She came home, and proceeded to drink and work on her school stuff. We went to bed.
I tried to talk to her on Saturday, and she said, as usual, give me a chance. That night, she told me she was going to have one glass of wine. Even though we were trying to have a social night, she decided to have 5 glasses of wine.
We then went to bed. The next morning, I tried to speak with her again about it.
Her response was the following: You're not going to control me. This is my problem, and I need to deal with it in my own way.
I then asked her what actions she was willing to do to deal with it, and what timeline I could expect for actions to be taken.
Her response was: I don't know what I'm going to do, when I'm going to do it, and I I'm not going to live my life according to your timetable.
My response was: So, while you're figuring out what you're going to do, I have to take the risk of being abused, or you hurting yourself, or myself, or doing damaging things?
Her: Yes, you have a choice to make. You can either support me in my problem, or you can make other choices.
I replied: Again, do you believe you're in control of your actions? That means you can drink, and control your behavior so you don't do things that damage our relationship?
Her: I haven't done it this week, you need to give me a chance.
Me: I have given you chances, and I will give you more chances. I will not tolerate abuse or you calling your ex-husband.
Her: You're putting so much pressure on me you're making what happens actually worse. You also make this problem much worse than it actually is.
Me: It's your choice to drink, and its your choice to do the other things. How do I make it worse.
Her: Your incessant smothering.
Me: Ok, we're done talking.
and it sort of just drizzled off from there.
She started drinking at 3:30, her kids came over and she calmed down, she continued to drink and passed out at 6:30. She has no memory of anything that happened past about 5:00 PM.
She woke up at 10, we talked a bit. I tried to talk to her this morning, and she said "I'm not talking about it". I got ready for work, kissed her, and went to work.
I'm heartsick, frustrated, angry, and scared. I know the whole conversation above is codependent alkie dance. I have forms to fill out for the attorney...... Nothing changes till it changes.
Redd
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
I'm just guessing, but I imagine you've had this same conversation multiple times. I know I did. Kept hoping for a different outcome. It was like banging my head against a brick wall.
She knows where you stand. She's made it perfectly clear where she stands. Looks like the ball is in your court. She's fine with the way things are, you aren't. She would prefer you to just shut up and let her be. Are you ready to stop banging your head?
L
She knows where you stand. She's made it perfectly clear where she stands. Looks like the ball is in your court. She's fine with the way things are, you aren't. She would prefer you to just shut up and let her be. Are you ready to stop banging your head?
L
Looking for the silver lining
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: South Florida
Posts: 243
Hi Redd,
Even after the AH moved out...had his crazy OW throw things and destroy his stuff, had to live in his car, had his back child support back up on him, had no money, no income, no food, no support...he still won't get help.
On Friday, I saw him to give him mail, and he said he made all these terrible mistakes...he said he missed his wife and he loves his wife..."is it over? Are we never getting back together?" These questions are too much for me to answer right now. The safest response for me was, "Are you in recovery? Have you gone to AA?" No...he still wants to "do it himself." Nothing has changed.
On Saturday, I spoke to him briefly regarding his son. After five minutes of speaking with him, I could hear he had been drinking. I realized that he is going to have to hit bottom on his own. I love this man, but I can't save him.
Your wife needs to hit bottom. Remove the safety net, Redd. For your sake and hers...Your co-dependency is killing you and her. Every time you rescue her or give her time, it destroys your wellbeing, and it destroys her ability to hit bottom and perhaps gain soberity.
I think it was GiveLove who once said that her parents almost "loved me to death." That is a powerful statement
We are loving our spouses to death! For both your sakes...:codiepolice
Even after the AH moved out...had his crazy OW throw things and destroy his stuff, had to live in his car, had his back child support back up on him, had no money, no income, no food, no support...he still won't get help.
On Friday, I saw him to give him mail, and he said he made all these terrible mistakes...he said he missed his wife and he loves his wife..."is it over? Are we never getting back together?" These questions are too much for me to answer right now. The safest response for me was, "Are you in recovery? Have you gone to AA?" No...he still wants to "do it himself." Nothing has changed.
On Saturday, I spoke to him briefly regarding his son. After five minutes of speaking with him, I could hear he had been drinking. I realized that he is going to have to hit bottom on his own. I love this man, but I can't save him.
Your wife needs to hit bottom. Remove the safety net, Redd. For your sake and hers...Your co-dependency is killing you and her. Every time you rescue her or give her time, it destroys your wellbeing, and it destroys her ability to hit bottom and perhaps gain soberity.
I think it was GiveLove who once said that her parents almost "loved me to death." That is a powerful statement
We are loving our spouses to death! For both your sakes...:codiepolice
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
So, I'm confused. Wasn't it just last week you were moving out?
What happened?
L
Originally Posted by Reddmax 
I have come to some realizations over the last few days. I really should thank my AW for beating them into me. (I'm a slow learner).
I won't bore everyone with the details, as I went through another horrific weekend.
The one positive about the situation is that I actually left. I packed s*&t up and left. I did come back on Sunday, and found more crap to get mad about, (mainly lying). So, I woke up early this morning and had a "get to the point" discussion with the AW.
I told her that she needs to think about what she wants in life, because I know what I want and I'm not getting it. I gave her till Friday to make up her mind.
I'm continuing to move stuff, as no matter what, I have to live closer to work to save money. Even if I get stuck with the house, I'll have to lock it up and live in the city during the week until I get it sold.
To add insult to injury this morning, as I was leaving, my vehicle had a hiccup. This caused me to spend money I've been saving, but stuff happens.
Oh well....
Thanks everyone....
Redd
I won't bore everyone with the details, as I went through another horrific weekend.
The one positive about the situation is that I actually left. I packed s*&t up and left. I did come back on Sunday, and found more crap to get mad about, (mainly lying). So, I woke up early this morning and had a "get to the point" discussion with the AW.
I told her that she needs to think about what she wants in life, because I know what I want and I'm not getting it. I gave her till Friday to make up her mind.
I'm continuing to move stuff, as no matter what, I have to live closer to work to save money. Even if I get stuck with the house, I'll have to lock it up and live in the city during the week until I get it sold.
To add insult to injury this morning, as I was leaving, my vehicle had a hiccup. This caused me to spend money I've been saving, but stuff happens.
Oh well....
Thanks everyone....
Redd
L
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 478
Redd- I sure feel for you this morning. Your conversation is one I'm sure most of us have had. Like LTD said..
For me.. the hardest part is their acceptance of the fact that they are crushing us and don't seem to care. I have these conversations.. and end up just wanting to curl up in a ball and cry. How can he not care that he is treating me this way? Is it really so important for them to feel like they are in control of a problem they really have no control over? The pain of the conversation is worse than the words themselves. LTD put it so perfectly.. She's already made it clear where she stands and what she intends to do about it.
If nothing changes, nothing changes...
Either you'll continue to have the same conversations and she'll continue to blame you for smothering her.. or your follow through and she'll see that your weren't bluffing.
I'm just guessing, but I imagine you've had this same conversation multiple times. I know I did. Kept hoping for a different outcome. It was like banging my head against a brick wall.
She knows where you stand. She's made it perfectly clear where she stands. Looks like the ball is in your court. She's fine with the way things are, you aren't. She would prefer you to just shut up and let her be. Are you ready to stop banging your head?
She knows where you stand. She's made it perfectly clear where she stands. Looks like the ball is in your court. She's fine with the way things are, you aren't. She would prefer you to just shut up and let her be. Are you ready to stop banging your head?
If nothing changes, nothing changes...
Either you'll continue to have the same conversations and she'll continue to blame you for smothering her.. or your follow through and she'll see that your weren't bluffing.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Great Lake Country
Posts: 333
LaTeeDa,
On the advice of my attorney, I put things off. basically, The attorney wants to create the complaint and any orders that need to go in as a complete package. Its basically a ducks in a row thing. I had left last saturday night, and basically let myself be talked into coming back. Then I get the response above. Nothing changes until you make a change.
Redd
On the advice of my attorney, I put things off. basically, The attorney wants to create the complaint and any orders that need to go in as a complete package. Its basically a ducks in a row thing. I had left last saturday night, and basically let myself be talked into coming back. Then I get the response above. Nothing changes until you make a change.
Redd
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: MO
Posts: 743
Same conversation, same results umpteen times at my house. Thank goodness he finally said this weekend "I'm not going to stop drinking, now or ever for anyone." I'm glad he got his priorities straight so that I can get on with mine.
Sending peace, prayers and good karma your way.
Sending peace, prayers and good karma your way.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
It's been how long? A week? Week and a half? So, what's the holdup? I did my own divorce and it took less than a day to get the paperwork together and file it. Have you told the attorney you want this done yesterday? Is it the attorney dragging his feet, or you? If you're paying someone to do something for you, and they don't do it to your satisfaction, you can fire them and hire someone else.
My divorce took a long time from filing to final, but the filing part was quick and easy.
L
My divorce took a long time from filing to final, but the filing part was quick and easy.
L
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
I had to hire an attorney back in 1998 when I was dealing with Workman's Compensation. It took over 6 months to get a proper diagnosis and then two subsequent surgeries on my arms.
The Workman's Comp surgeon stated I could be released back to work the day after each surgery on my arms. This was factory work, around dangerous machinery, I would have the arm in a sling, and on pain meds.
I told my attorney there was no way that would happen.
My attorney told me I wouldn't get nearly as much of a settlement if I didn't comply with the surgeon's statement.
I told the attorney we were talking about my arms, the only freaking pair of arms God gave me, and I didn't care what the surgeon said.
The extra money was NOT worth me going back to work in that condition.
Your attorney isn't God. Do what you need to do for yourself.
The Workman's Comp surgeon stated I could be released back to work the day after each surgery on my arms. This was factory work, around dangerous machinery, I would have the arm in a sling, and on pain meds.
I told my attorney there was no way that would happen.
My attorney told me I wouldn't get nearly as much of a settlement if I didn't comply with the surgeon's statement.
I told the attorney we were talking about my arms, the only freaking pair of arms God gave me, and I didn't care what the surgeon said.
The extra money was NOT worth me going back to work in that condition.
Your attorney isn't God. Do what you need to do for yourself.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
Posts: 2,136
Originally Posted by Reddmax
I know... jeeze, I know.
Her alcoholism has nothing to do with you. Your codependency has nothing to do with her. When you decide to start focusing solely on your own recovery, you'll quit dancing with her.
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Great Lake Country
Posts: 333
Actually, all of you are right. I'm the one dragging the feet. I'm the one that doesn't want to hire an attorney. Tough Love is what you're giving me.
I hate that soul crushing feeling.... I wish I was hard as some of the people here have been. I've been dealing with this for 2 1/2 years, some people have put up with it for 20. I feel like I'm letting my family and my wife down by giving up. I know its not true, but that is the way I'm feeling.
I'm whining like a little kid. Regardless of how I feel, it is what it is..... and that is reality.
Redd
Originally Posted by isitme
For me.. the hardest part is their acceptance of the fact that they are crushing us and don't seem to care. I have these conversations.. and end up just wanting to curl up in a ball and cry. How can he not care that he is treating me this way? Is it really so important for them to feel like they are in control of a problem they really have no control over? The pain of the conversation is worse than the words themselves. LTD put it so perfectly.. She's already made it clear where she stands and what she intends to do about it.
If nothing changes, nothing changes...
Either you'll continue to have the same conversations and she'll continue to blame you for smothering her.. or your follow through and she'll see that your weren't bluffing.
If nothing changes, nothing changes...
Either you'll continue to have the same conversations and she'll continue to blame you for smothering her.. or your follow through and she'll see that your weren't bluffing.
I hate that soul crushing feeling.... I wish I was hard as some of the people here have been. I've been dealing with this for 2 1/2 years, some people have put up with it for 20. I feel like I'm letting my family and my wife down by giving up. I know its not true, but that is the way I'm feeling.
I'm whining like a little kid. Regardless of how I feel, it is what it is..... and that is reality.
Redd
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
Posts: 2,136
I believe I have posted this to you before, but at the risk of being redundant, I will post it again. I was the victim of my feelings for years. Feelings change for no rhyme or reason, they come and go, they are in flux. I based some of the worst decisions of my life on my feelings and/or reactions to situations.
I still do things today that make me uncomfortable and afraid; however, regardless of how I'm feeling, I do what I need to do. Feelings are a good thing, but when we pander to them to the point that we are trapped in our OWN misery, then I think it's time to dump the feelings and get on with the business of life.
I believe you are seeing a counselor. You may want to bring up your concerns about feeling like you are letting your wife down. She's active in her addiction. Her addiction is numero uno. She's blaming you for smothering her. In other words, she's telling you to get out of her face, get off her back, and leave her the heck alone to pursue her addiction.
Explain to me what it is that leads you to believe you are letting someone down who is telling you to leave them alone? Like I said, what you are feeling has a whole lot more to do with YOUR issues than HER addiction.
I still do things today that make me uncomfortable and afraid; however, regardless of how I'm feeling, I do what I need to do. Feelings are a good thing, but when we pander to them to the point that we are trapped in our OWN misery, then I think it's time to dump the feelings and get on with the business of life.
I believe you are seeing a counselor. You may want to bring up your concerns about feeling like you are letting your wife down. She's active in her addiction. Her addiction is numero uno. She's blaming you for smothering her. In other words, she's telling you to get out of her face, get off her back, and leave her the heck alone to pursue her addiction.
Explain to me what it is that leads you to believe you are letting someone down who is telling you to leave them alone? Like I said, what you are feeling has a whole lot more to do with YOUR issues than HER addiction.
Rediscovering myself
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 231
I've only put up with mine for two years and he's drinking less than yours is. My logic is that if he gets a DUI, I'm screwed. I can't afford health insurance. I can't afford life insurance. My credit will be shot because we're married and it's all tied together. The only reason he hasn't had a DUI so far is pure LUCK. Every day he drinks and every day he drives. It's just a matter of time. I want out.
I'm not giving up on my family. I'm saving myself (and I'm taking DD with me).
I'm not giving up on my family. I'm saving myself (and I'm taking DD with me).
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Oh my....I had that SAME conversation around a month ago nearly verbatim, then she started to go to meetings and you know what?
It got worse.
Sober Horse thief and all that, all that she learned so far is to use the language as a further tool of manipulation and degradation.
I left 5 days ago and I'm still running, although I keep looking back over my shoulder and engaging.
Hang in There, I'm right there with you.
It got worse.
Sober Horse thief and all that, all that she learned so far is to use the language as a further tool of manipulation and degradation.
I left 5 days ago and I'm still running, although I keep looking back over my shoulder and engaging.
Hang in There, I'm right there with you.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
You sound like a smart guy and I'm sure you know the deal with Lawyers, they are insented to drag things out. I had to manage my Lawyer carefully or she would have taken more than the pound of flesh she cost me.
You also sound like you know your part in this play. I was engaged for a good two years before I pulled the trigger. My ex did do two rehabs and two relapses, but she used up the two chances I gave her after two years of putting me and all our kids through hell. I know how you feel and don't let anyone pressure you.
Sometimes this place can get a bad rep for the kick him (or her) to the curb routine all to often. Just know that it's folks trying to prevent friends from going through as much hell as we did and the motivation for doing so is coming from a good place.
When you boil it all down to the least common denominator, you can leave when you want to, or kick her out when you want to, regardless of your Lawyers tactical advice.
I gave up a living room set of brand new expensive beautiful leather furniture. My sister was coaching me to fight M for it. The furniture was not worth my sanity, not by a long shot. I think my sister understands now as she is going through a divorce herself.
You also sound like you know your part in this play. I was engaged for a good two years before I pulled the trigger. My ex did do two rehabs and two relapses, but she used up the two chances I gave her after two years of putting me and all our kids through hell. I know how you feel and don't let anyone pressure you.
Sometimes this place can get a bad rep for the kick him (or her) to the curb routine all to often. Just know that it's folks trying to prevent friends from going through as much hell as we did and the motivation for doing so is coming from a good place.
When you boil it all down to the least common denominator, you can leave when you want to, or kick her out when you want to, regardless of your Lawyers tactical advice.
I gave up a living room set of brand new expensive beautiful leather furniture. My sister was coaching me to fight M for it. The furniture was not worth my sanity, not by a long shot. I think my sister understands now as she is going through a divorce herself.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Great Lake Country
Posts: 333
Right....I just sent a friend an email which summed up part of the issue for. How do you leave a person you swore to love and cherish, even if she doesn't love and cherish you? Also, If she's willing to do all the nasty and mean things when she supposedly loves me, what the hell is she going to do during the divorce?
Right now I'm in limbo.... which is probably the worst place you can be. I'm continuing my baby steps. I have and important decision tomorrow. Please give me your prayers for strength.
Redd
Right now I'm in limbo.... which is probably the worst place you can be. I'm continuing my baby steps. I have and important decision tomorrow. Please give me your prayers for strength.
Redd
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