No More Letting Go???

Old 09-26-2008, 07:30 PM
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No More Letting Go???

Has anybody read the book "No More Letting Go" by Debra Jay. I was reading an excerpt from the book talking about how new studies have shown that addicts recover quicker with the help of their families and they should not necessarily hit bottom to start their recovery process. You ca read the excerpts for yourself at www dot nomorelettinggo dot com.

What do you all think about this new somewhat revolutionary idea stated in Debra Jay's book? It seems like it goes totally against what most of us here have learnt through personal experience, i.e. that the alcoholic has to hit bottom and take action himself/herself.

Anyhow, I tend to keep an open mind and do believe in research so I am interested in reading the book just out of curiosity and want to find out more about this different approach. Could it be that all of us are missing the boat? Things like this bring back the codie in me and make me doubt my decision to kick my AF out.

I would love to hear what others think about the above and I am so glad I have SR in times like this where I can share my thoughts and get needed reassurance.

Hellma
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:40 PM
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I'll go check out the site but my thoughts haven't always been to let the addict hurt himself and if possible "help" before the bottom falls out. But there is a time line where we did realize that no matter what we said or did~~our son was going to find his own recovery in his own time. Thats when its time to back away and stop enabling (codie)) with the cash. I'll have to check this book out..or theory!! Thanks for sharing. Smiles, Bonnie
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:51 PM
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I am sure that a few recovering A's will drop in but from what I have learned the most important factor is the A's desire for recovery. A's have many avenues for support not just from families.

If family support was all that was needed the long term recovery rate would be much higher than it is. My exah has family and friends who would support his recovery but he has to take the first step. He refuses to even take one step into a meeting let alone detox or rehab because he wants to continue using not because he does not have a support system.
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Old 09-26-2008, 08:00 PM
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I'm sure it's an eye opening book, and I think all education is good. I think we would all agree that it's worth trying hard to support an alcoholic loved one who is actively seeking help for themselves. And most of the people on this board have tried hard, very hard, before reaching the point where detachment is necessary if they're going to maintain their sanity. Nobody "lets go" on a whim. I know you didn't.

I'm guessing the book doesn't address that point very much --- what's best for the families of alcoholics. These are people who have worked hard to be supportive already, who often have lost savings, homes, security, have been verbally and physically abused, had their children exposed to horrible situations, and a host of other awfulness, and who now seek support for themselves to put their lives back together.

I'm here to support them.

And I will look forward to comments from our A forum members....I learn so much from them.
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:50 PM
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I rallied around my stepdad and my son and they are both sober today.
However, I was careful not to enable and included tough love.
I always showed compassion when they were active addicts, I always helped them find a treatment but didn't let them live with me or my mom if they were using.
I never eased up or was shy about letting them know they were sick and had to get help.
My son has a tendency to become incognito when he is using. He will just disappear
I always sought him out and refused to let him become invisible and lost. I kept contact, found where he was an let him know that he mattered.

I could let him go emotionally some times to protect myself...but I never let him disappear as hard as he tried. This is what I think the author, Debra Jay, believes too.
Don't let them disappear with drugs. As family members we can make a difference
sometimes. In my case this is true. Though it was not straight and quick .

Debra Jay's other book LOVE FIRST that she wrote with her husband, is a great book about how to do an intervention
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Old 09-27-2008, 07:52 AM
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I don't think it's new or revolutionary - I think it spins the same message in another way.

In Al Anon I learned everyone has their own personal bottom, which can actually be quite high. I learned it is ok to support someone who wants to recover.

One absolute I have come to believe with all my heart is no one (including me) changes unless they want to.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:41 AM
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Hello there hellma, and pleased to "meet" you.

The concept of "bottom" has been around since before AA was started, as is the concept of "family support". "Intervention" is a little newer, it got going in the early 70's when "Employee Assistance Programs" at the large corporations started taking an active role in _proactive_ health care.

If you read the personal stories in the back of the AA "Big Book" you will see that "bottom" has nothing to do with external circumstances, finances or living conditions. Street winos get all the attention in the movies and the media, but the truth is that the overwhelming majority of people who decide to quit boozing and drinking still have a place to live and some kind of a job. "Bottom" is also refered to as a "moment of clarity". That is a moment when the alkie/druggie suddenly and unexpectedly has insight into their own behavior and where that behavior is taking them in the future. Shrinks call it "self-awareness".

What the "intervention" research has shown is that the major "enablers" of an alkie are usually the family members which pay the bills, lie to the boss and the kids, cover up to the police, etc. In order to create an artificial "moment of clarity" in the brain of an alkie, the interventionist _first_ has to create that moment in the enablers. As long as the enablers continue to enable, there really is no reason for the alkie to quit.

It is only when the alkie realizes that there are no more enablers, that all the harmful consequences of their drinking and drugging are going to come crashing down on their head, that they become aware that there is something wrong in their life. That moment is the "bottom". That moment is what the interventionist strives to acomplish.

The "support" that Ms. Jay refers to is the "switch" from enabler to non-enabler that al-anon teaches. Sometimes this is refered to as "raising the bottom". The challenge to the professional interventionist is that every person has a different level of tolerance for "bottom". Some spouses reach their "bottom" at the first public humiliation, others at the first infidelity, others at the first physical abuse. Some enablers don't reach their "bottom" until the alkie beats them into permanent physical deformity, or death.

As a general rule, the interventionist has to "bait" the enabler with soft talk that supports the enabling behavior, and very slowly educate them into the concepts of "enabling" as being harmful, and "bottom" as being helpful. Most "codies" will run if you "hit them with the truth" too early in their recovery. If you want to "raise the bottom" of a codie, you have to do it very slowly and very carefuly. It is the Higher Power that is the Professional who knows exactly the right time in life to "hit somebody with the truth". Anybody who tries to "raise a bottom" for somebody else is playing in God's schoolyard, and had better do so with a great deal of humility.

The above being the introduction to lectures I used to give long ago when I was employed as a counselor and interventionist at various hospitals in Los Angeles. I am long since retired. I am also a recovering alkie (28yrs) and a recovering codie (3yrs). No, all that experience and knowledge about co-dependency and enabling did me no good when it was my own wife that developed a pill addiction. I needed the help of other people to get me thru the tangled quick-sand of codependency.

* takes off professional hat and goes back to being just another codie in recovery *

Mike
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Old 09-27-2008, 07:56 PM
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No More Letting Go

I tried to post this awhile ago but it doesn't seem to have gone through so I'll try again. I've read this book and recommended it to families who were dealing with addiction. I think it's one of the best things around. I'm a therapist and have worked a lot in the addiction field. This book basically says you don't have to wait until the entire family is destroyed because of one person's addiction before setting boundaries. She recommends what alanon does in terms of detachment but she also gives examples and explains why bailing out the alcoholic and addict isn't helpful.
I think it's particularly relevant today when so many young people are starting so early that we have full blown addicts in their teens. She talks a lot about interventions which ends up being one option and one other is that the alcoholic or addict is no longer being supported and bailed out as long as they continue to drink and/or use.
So many families are destroyed waiting for the alcoholic or addict to hit bottom. This is about saving the family and not sacrificing it to the disease.


I sometimes think it would be nice to be able to download my experiences into the head of the still suffering alcoholic and somehow make it easier for them to understand the incredible joy of sobriety.

I just joined this evening and I thank you all for letting me share.
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Old 09-29-2008, 06:19 AM
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i read the book and agree with the author. I especially was drawn in at the beginning when she talked about a time in the future when families/society will no longer tolerate addiction within it and compared it to the introduction of CPR into our societal psyche as being so problematic but how now we accept it without question in medical treatment...

I have come across some people's definition of "letting go" to mean "let the addict do anything" yet say nothing but the slogans of Alanon and go to a meeting. I have seen people lose their homes, lose their children because the State stepped in, let their children be exposed to x-rated behaviors of the addict, lose all their savings because the addict took it all, lose their cars because of the addict's behavior, have the utilities cut off because of the addict's behavior, and on and on. Then these spouse show up here or at a meeting and say, "OMG, how much more of this can I take? I'm letting him/her go, but i just don't think i can live like this anymore." Then they decide the addict is a "lost cause," will never find sobriety, and divorce this person.

I think that is one of the things the author was addressing that I assume she saw in her dealings with family members.

That's one of the angles i saw in the book...
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Old 09-29-2008, 06:28 AM
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I agree everyone has their bottom. It doesn't have to be a horrific event. Mine was more of a thought promise that made me stop.
I agree as do others that having any support system helps heal.
Whatever someone needs to do to become sober is fine with me.......as long as they find that way.
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