Recognising verbal abuse
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 11
Recognising verbal abuse
I hope no one minds me posting this, but it wasn't until recently when I read about verbal abuse and added that information to what I had read here that I finally got the last piece of the puzzle in place of what has been happening to me all these years, I am just starting to wrap my head around it, I had been lead to believe I was oversensitive, couldn't take a joke, a killjoy even, he seemed to like everyone else (down the pub anyway) so what was up with me? Anyway, these were just a few points to consider...
EVALUATING YOUR EXPERIENCE
He seems irritated or angry with you several times a week or more although you hadn't meant to upset him. You are surprised each time. (He says he's not mad when you ask him what he's mad about, or he tells you he's not mad when you ask him what he's mad about, or he tells you in some way that it's your fault).
When you feel hurt and try to discuss your upset feelings with him, you don't feel as if the issue has been fully resolved, so you don't feel happy or relieved, nor do you have a feeling that you've kissed and made up (he says 'you're just trying to start an argument!' or in some other way expresses his refusal to discuss the situation.
You frequently feel perplexed and frustrated by his responses because you can't get him to understand your intentions.
You are upset not so much about concrete issues - how much time to spend with each other, where to go on vacation etc - as about the communication in the relationship: what he thinks you said and what you heard him say.
He rarely, if ever, seems to want to share his thoughts or plans with you.
He seems to take the opposite view from you on almost anything you mention, and his view is not qualified by 'I think' or 'I believe' or 'I feel', as if your view wrong and his right.
You sometimes wonder if he perceives you as a separate person.
You can't recall saying to him 'cut it out' or 'stop it'.
He is either angry, or has no idea of what you are talking about when you try to discuss an issue with him.
EVALUATING YOUR EXPERIENCE
He seems irritated or angry with you several times a week or more although you hadn't meant to upset him. You are surprised each time. (He says he's not mad when you ask him what he's mad about, or he tells you he's not mad when you ask him what he's mad about, or he tells you in some way that it's your fault).
When you feel hurt and try to discuss your upset feelings with him, you don't feel as if the issue has been fully resolved, so you don't feel happy or relieved, nor do you have a feeling that you've kissed and made up (he says 'you're just trying to start an argument!' or in some other way expresses his refusal to discuss the situation.
You frequently feel perplexed and frustrated by his responses because you can't get him to understand your intentions.
You are upset not so much about concrete issues - how much time to spend with each other, where to go on vacation etc - as about the communication in the relationship: what he thinks you said and what you heard him say.
He rarely, if ever, seems to want to share his thoughts or plans with you.
He seems to take the opposite view from you on almost anything you mention, and his view is not qualified by 'I think' or 'I believe' or 'I feel', as if your view wrong and his right.
You sometimes wonder if he perceives you as a separate person.
You can't recall saying to him 'cut it out' or 'stop it'.
He is either angry, or has no idea of what you are talking about when you try to discuss an issue with him.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 11
Also, a few feeling based observations which struck a chord with me too
Feeling temporarily thrown off balance and momentarily unable to right oneself.
Feeling lost, not knowing where to turn, searching aimlessly.
Being caught off guard.
Feeling disconnected, confused, disorientated.
Feeling off balance, like the rug has been pulled from under one's feet.
Receiving double messages but somehow unable, or fearful to ask for clarification (or asking for clarification and not getting it).
feeling generally bugged by the simple presence of a person.
To discover that one was mistaken in one's evaluation of where one stood or what it was about.
Feeling totally unprepared for a broken promise or unfulfilled expectation.
Experience the shattering of an important dream.
Where one assumed good will, ill will seems to prevail.
One feels pushed around, not in control of one's direction.
Unable to get off redundantly spinning circles of thoughts.
What seemed clear becomes muddled.
An uneasy weird feeling of emptiness.
A strong wish to get away, yet feeling unable to move, as if frozen.
One is befuddled, not able to attack the problem.
Feeling vaguely suspicious that something is wrong.
Feeling that one's world has become chaotic.
Feeling temporarily thrown off balance and momentarily unable to right oneself.
Feeling lost, not knowing where to turn, searching aimlessly.
Being caught off guard.
Feeling disconnected, confused, disorientated.
Feeling off balance, like the rug has been pulled from under one's feet.
Receiving double messages but somehow unable, or fearful to ask for clarification (or asking for clarification and not getting it).
feeling generally bugged by the simple presence of a person.
To discover that one was mistaken in one's evaluation of where one stood or what it was about.
Feeling totally unprepared for a broken promise or unfulfilled expectation.
Experience the shattering of an important dream.
Where one assumed good will, ill will seems to prevail.
One feels pushed around, not in control of one's direction.
Unable to get off redundantly spinning circles of thoughts.
What seemed clear becomes muddled.
An uneasy weird feeling of emptiness.
A strong wish to get away, yet feeling unable to move, as if frozen.
One is befuddled, not able to attack the problem.
Feeling vaguely suspicious that something is wrong.
Feeling that one's world has become chaotic.
Formerly known as soconfused11
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Colon, MI
Posts: 410
He seems irritated or angry with you several times a week or more although you hadn't meant to upset him. You are surprised each time. (He says he's not mad when you ask him what he's mad about, or he tells you he's not mad when you ask him what he's mad about, or he tells you in some way that it's your fault).
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: looking for the sun in cold MN
Posts: 775
Ditto that Soconfused. Mine would be obviously angry, grouchy, etc., but if I asked him why he was so mad- he wasn't mad. Twisty, warped- made me 2nd guess myself far too much. I'm done with that.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 478
I've been doing a lot of research on verbal and emotional abuse lately. Seems I'm always trying to find the right "label" for my problems. But that's another subject entierly. LOL
I've come to think that mine and ABF's problems really seem to be more about the abuse than the drinking. I've read enough posts to believe that my ABF would be a dry drunk or one of the ones who doesn't get nicer when he gets sober. I have really started to think his bigges problem is with manipulation and emotional abuse more than with the alcohol..even though the totally seem to go hand in hand.
I agree with almost every point made in those two posts.. yet I find myself waiting around for some more.
I've come to think that mine and ABF's problems really seem to be more about the abuse than the drinking. I've read enough posts to believe that my ABF would be a dry drunk or one of the ones who doesn't get nicer when he gets sober. I have really started to think his bigges problem is with manipulation and emotional abuse more than with the alcohol..even though the totally seem to go hand in hand.
I agree with almost every point made in those two posts.. yet I find myself waiting around for some more.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 478
This is really long, so I'll only post the link. However it pretty much describes the covert abuse style of my ABF to a T. He's definately the type to makes me look like the crazy, mad, yelling lunatic while he stays calm & controlled, yet he's manipulating the S**T out of me at the same time. Turning words around, bringing up the past and making me feel miserable with out directly making it seem that way. It's truley mind boggling...
Physical & Emotional Abuse Forum: Worth Reading and re-posting... - DailyStrength
and this one too.
Physical & Emotional Abuse Forum: Some traits of emotional abusers... - DailyStrength
Physical & Emotional Abuse Forum: Worth Reading and re-posting... - DailyStrength
and this one too.
Physical & Emotional Abuse Forum: Some traits of emotional abusers... - DailyStrength
God's Kid
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,820
True Story
A few months ago I was at a fast food place with a newly sober alcoholic, who also has a long history of relapsing.
Off the top of my head I don't recall what we were talking about but what ever it was caused her to get a little nasty and start to make horrible personal comments about me.
We'd finished our food so I just stood up and said let's go.
As we walked up the street I rubbed her back and said something nice to her.
I even gave her a ride home too.
It wasn't till later on that I realised I had behaved like that to her verbal abuse automatically. I.e. I felt uncomfortable, like I was being attacked so terminated the conversation and got on with my own day.
The place I have learnt to do this stuff is in Al Anon. Pre Al Anon, I would have attacked her back and then we would have had a real argument. I doubt we would have left the fast food place together to say the least!
While I think it is good to know 'what is what' and to be able to label behavior, for me it is just important to also know how to deal with it and not take it personally.
Off the top of my head I don't recall what we were talking about but what ever it was caused her to get a little nasty and start to make horrible personal comments about me.
We'd finished our food so I just stood up and said let's go.
As we walked up the street I rubbed her back and said something nice to her.
I even gave her a ride home too.
It wasn't till later on that I realised I had behaved like that to her verbal abuse automatically. I.e. I felt uncomfortable, like I was being attacked so terminated the conversation and got on with my own day.
The place I have learnt to do this stuff is in Al Anon. Pre Al Anon, I would have attacked her back and then we would have had a real argument. I doubt we would have left the fast food place together to say the least!
While I think it is good to know 'what is what' and to be able to label behavior, for me it is just important to also know how to deal with it and not take it personally.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 478
Originally Posted by lizw 
While I think it is good to know 'what is what' and to be able to label behavior, for me it is just important to also know how to deal with it and not take it personally.
I'm not saying your actions are inappropriate at all.. in fact I applaud them. I just don't think i can do it. I don't think I'm strong enough anymore. If feel so outside of myself and as I contiune to try to work on me I think the only way back to myself is a one way ticket out of this maddness. Even though I think my traits have been scrutinized (sp?) and amplified I've always been a pretty sensitive person, I wouldn't say weak, but sensitive. And even if I see the crap for what it is, it still hurts that someone I love would choose to treat me that way. I don't think it's something I would ever be able to ignore.
God's Kid
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,820
Just to be clear on this, this person wasn't my partner but just a close friend.
I haven't lived with alcoholism, active or otherwise for 2 years. And as far as I am concerned there is only enough room in my life for one crazy person, and that is me. I will never, ever, God willing live with a person who thinks it is okay to abuse me, ever again.
And despite not being in a relationship with an alcoholic, I still attend Al Anon and probably will to the day I die. I've a lifetime of recovering to do.
:atv
I haven't lived with alcoholism, active or otherwise for 2 years. And as far as I am concerned there is only enough room in my life for one crazy person, and that is me. I will never, ever, God willing live with a person who thinks it is okay to abuse me, ever again.
And despite not being in a relationship with an alcoholic, I still attend Al Anon and probably will to the day I die. I've a lifetime of recovering to do.
:atv
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
I just walked away from a verbal abuser a few days ago....what a confusing few years....
There seems to be a lot more about men being the abuser however my experience has been it goes both ways, and as a man being involved with a surreptitious emotional abuser...it's very very confusing...it made me doubt my own reality...
My biggest "block" has been trying to convince...or make this person realize that their actions had an impact on me...as well as trying to convince people around me that this was in fact taking place, that's where the insanity lay for me (when the truth is they all already knew and had been recommending I leave for the last two years, at this point they are disgusted with me for repeatedly going back, and have informed me if I do so again, they will subject me to ridicule <in a supportive way>).
What was recommended to me, was just walk away, let it go...kind of like...well, if I was hanging out in the slums at 2AM, eventually I would get beaten up and robbed, the question is not so much what they did "to me" but what was I doing in a dangerous area where I KNEW if I hung out, I would get hurt. None of her behavior was a surprise, it had happened repeatedly, my insanity was going back and "expecting different results"
some quotes I liked were and gave me "ah-ha" moments were:
"One of the more subtle but effective ways an abuser can "wind" his partner up is by invalidating/rejecting/showing no compassion for the feelings of his partner - especially in conjunction with a deliberate act of malice that was designed to upset or hurt the partner. He will claim the act was either "accidental" or intended to help the partner. He will try to tell his partner that it is NOT OK to feel angry or hurt or upset by his actions - or that if she DOES feel those things, her "feelings are her own" - that he has no responsibility towards repairing any emotional damage he may have caused. As part of this tactic he may pay lip-service to personal responsibility by saying he "takes responsibility" for his actions, but then make no offer to do anything about the resulting emotional pain, or say that there is nothing he can do to repair the damage or make restitution. If she tries to get him to do anything to make restitution he will use the word "blame" as if it is a dirty word, and accuse her of trying to lay "blame" on him for his actions. This is the functional equivalent of someone using a board to "fan" you and when he "accidentally" hits you over the head, telling you that he was just trying to HELP and that if you feel PAIN, well, your feelings are your own, and he can't be responsible for YOUR feelings, and there is nothing HE can do about it now... Non-abusers who genuinely ACCIDENTALLY hurt a loved one's feelings, do not refuse to nurture those feelings - they help repair the emotional damage, and they don't repeatedly make the same "mistakes" over and over with their partners.
Emotional abusers have huge double standards. What is ok for them, is NOT ok for their partners. I.e. THEY are allowed to get angry - their partners are not.
If caught in a lie or exposed in a situation where he can't immediately manipulate his partner into taking the rap, he may try to go for the sympathy ploy, in an attempt deflect the situation away from his bad behavior.
or:
-to bring up stories of childhood/parental abuse (watch these, they are the same old stories each time, and if you listen closely, you may see that his behaviors closely match those childhood abuse patterns...)
-to bring up troubles and things bothering him at work
-to bring up his hurt and "pain" over something YOU did ages ago, and have long-since paid for.
Emotional abusers hate apologizing - and if they DO apologize, they will only do the same thing again. They know this, and will even try to make it seem like any expectation of an apology is really an attempt to "blame" them. (Again, "blame" being that dirty word). For example, "You just want me to say I'm sorry and promise I'll never do it again, so that when I screw up again, you can point a finger and blame me and get angry with me and say, "See? You did it again and you promised you wouldn't!"" This is called "projection" - abusers do it all the time. They project THEIR issues onto their partner, and try to make it their partner's problem. They make it sound like the partner's is somehow wrong or attempting to set them up for "blame", for wanting some sign of compassion and remorse, and an indication of willingness to work on the behavior problem.
If you find that you are having to explain the basics of respect and courtesy to a partner - if you are finding that he just DOESN'T SEEM TO GET IT, when you try to explain why his behavior or actions were disrespectful - run far and run fast. People who are capable of maintaining and contributing to a loving, supportive, healthy relationship, DON'T need to constantly have the concepts of respect, compassion, and consideration explained to them.
Anyway, for me, the best thing I can do is walk away, let go, not obsess, and get some time behind me, work on myself for awhile (do a fourth step around this) and hope I don't have to repeat this lesson again.
Have a great day and stay strong
There seems to be a lot more about men being the abuser however my experience has been it goes both ways, and as a man being involved with a surreptitious emotional abuser...it's very very confusing...it made me doubt my own reality...
My biggest "block" has been trying to convince...or make this person realize that their actions had an impact on me...as well as trying to convince people around me that this was in fact taking place, that's where the insanity lay for me (when the truth is they all already knew and had been recommending I leave for the last two years, at this point they are disgusted with me for repeatedly going back, and have informed me if I do so again, they will subject me to ridicule <in a supportive way>).
What was recommended to me, was just walk away, let it go...kind of like...well, if I was hanging out in the slums at 2AM, eventually I would get beaten up and robbed, the question is not so much what they did "to me" but what was I doing in a dangerous area where I KNEW if I hung out, I would get hurt. None of her behavior was a surprise, it had happened repeatedly, my insanity was going back and "expecting different results"
some quotes I liked were and gave me "ah-ha" moments were:
"One of the more subtle but effective ways an abuser can "wind" his partner up is by invalidating/rejecting/showing no compassion for the feelings of his partner - especially in conjunction with a deliberate act of malice that was designed to upset or hurt the partner. He will claim the act was either "accidental" or intended to help the partner. He will try to tell his partner that it is NOT OK to feel angry or hurt or upset by his actions - or that if she DOES feel those things, her "feelings are her own" - that he has no responsibility towards repairing any emotional damage he may have caused. As part of this tactic he may pay lip-service to personal responsibility by saying he "takes responsibility" for his actions, but then make no offer to do anything about the resulting emotional pain, or say that there is nothing he can do to repair the damage or make restitution. If she tries to get him to do anything to make restitution he will use the word "blame" as if it is a dirty word, and accuse her of trying to lay "blame" on him for his actions. This is the functional equivalent of someone using a board to "fan" you and when he "accidentally" hits you over the head, telling you that he was just trying to HELP and that if you feel PAIN, well, your feelings are your own, and he can't be responsible for YOUR feelings, and there is nothing HE can do about it now... Non-abusers who genuinely ACCIDENTALLY hurt a loved one's feelings, do not refuse to nurture those feelings - they help repair the emotional damage, and they don't repeatedly make the same "mistakes" over and over with their partners.
Emotional abusers have huge double standards. What is ok for them, is NOT ok for their partners. I.e. THEY are allowed to get angry - their partners are not.
If caught in a lie or exposed in a situation where he can't immediately manipulate his partner into taking the rap, he may try to go for the sympathy ploy, in an attempt deflect the situation away from his bad behavior.
or:
-to bring up stories of childhood/parental abuse (watch these, they are the same old stories each time, and if you listen closely, you may see that his behaviors closely match those childhood abuse patterns...)
-to bring up troubles and things bothering him at work
-to bring up his hurt and "pain" over something YOU did ages ago, and have long-since paid for.
Emotional abusers hate apologizing - and if they DO apologize, they will only do the same thing again. They know this, and will even try to make it seem like any expectation of an apology is really an attempt to "blame" them. (Again, "blame" being that dirty word). For example, "You just want me to say I'm sorry and promise I'll never do it again, so that when I screw up again, you can point a finger and blame me and get angry with me and say, "See? You did it again and you promised you wouldn't!"" This is called "projection" - abusers do it all the time. They project THEIR issues onto their partner, and try to make it their partner's problem. They make it sound like the partner's is somehow wrong or attempting to set them up for "blame", for wanting some sign of compassion and remorse, and an indication of willingness to work on the behavior problem.
If you find that you are having to explain the basics of respect and courtesy to a partner - if you are finding that he just DOESN'T SEEM TO GET IT, when you try to explain why his behavior or actions were disrespectful - run far and run fast. People who are capable of maintaining and contributing to a loving, supportive, healthy relationship, DON'T need to constantly have the concepts of respect, compassion, and consideration explained to them.
Anyway, for me, the best thing I can do is walk away, let go, not obsess, and get some time behind me, work on myself for awhile (do a fourth step around this) and hope I don't have to repeat this lesson again.
Have a great day and stay strong
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 65
Great thread. Took me years to finally see I was living with emotional abuse. It was always my fault. I seemed to be blamed for everything even though I couldn't see what I'd done. Seething, bubbling under the surface... I felt like he was a volcano ready to erupt but apparently he was 'never angry'. Still denies so many of the things he said. Its like we were using the same words but speaking completely different languages. At least I just don't have to subject myself to it any more.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 11
I think the worst thing for me was trying so heartbreakingly hard to try to make him happy, and being so disappointed when I couldn't, I was going to ridiculous extremes and making life so hard for me just to get him to smile, only to be met with flatness, I just couldn't see what was wrong with me. I even remember thinking to myself that if I could just be really perfect to him for a whole year and not say anything to him everything would be different and he wouldn't need to drink to get away from me, good grief!
The relief of knowing that actually, I am a good person and he is the one with the issues THAT I DON'T HAVE TO FIX, AND I CAN'T FIX has changed everything, I can see everything he throws at me for what it is and it has made the decision to leave seem so easy now. 20 years I put up with that, but not one day more. I can't believe how strong I feel.
The relief of knowing that actually, I am a good person and he is the one with the issues THAT I DON'T HAVE TO FIX, AND I CAN'T FIX has changed everything, I can see everything he throws at me for what it is and it has made the decision to leave seem so easy now. 20 years I put up with that, but not one day more. I can't believe how strong I feel.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Originally Posted by loobylue
I think the worst thing for me was trying so heartbreakingly hard to try to make him happy, and being so disappointed when I couldn't, I was going to ridiculous extremes and making life so hard for me just to get him to smile, only to be met with flatness, I just couldn't see what was wrong with me. I even remember thinking to myself that if I could just be really perfect to him for a whole year and not say anything to him everything would be different and he wouldn't need to drink to get away from me, good grief!
The relief of knowing that actually, I am a good person and he is the one with the issues THAT I DON'T HAVE TO FIX, AND I CAN'T FIX has changed everything, I can see everything he throws at me for what it is and it has made the decision to leave seem so easy now. 20 years I put up with that, but not one day more. I can't believe how strong I feel.
The relief of knowing that actually, I am a good person and he is the one with the issues THAT I DON'T HAVE TO FIX, AND I CAN'T FIX has changed everything, I can see everything he throws at me for what it is and it has made the decision to leave seem so easy now. 20 years I put up with that, but not one day more. I can't believe how strong I feel.
I broke up with my "ex" a few days ago, and just got the first "exit interview" email an hour or so ago, where she writes everything I said is a Lie, I need professional help, I don't realize everything she has done for me, and "how sick I am", and "she has nothing but pity for me"
The funny thing is I have a large support group of healthy people with long term sobriety who have telling me to get away from her for well over a year, and just rolling their eyes at me when I went back, they all tell me how great I am, I have integrity, how much they love me, it goes on and on, this includes my "ex" Girlfriends for the last 20 years, who flat out state how much they love me, and how she doesn't deserve me, and how "she just isn't a nice person".
The scary thing?
On some level I believe her.
I believe all the horrible things she says about me, everyone around me is saying NO NO NO it's NOT true, walk away and feel empowered!!!
I'm still stuck in bargaining, denial, if only I had tried harder...etc.
I can't WAIT for this to be a thing of the past.
God I hope I walk around the "pothole" next time it appears rather then fall in, I'm climbing out of this one, but I am COVERED in "mud" and am doing so kicking and screaming.
Of all the addictions I have ever kicked, this one has been the toughest.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by Soconfused11
This is a big one at our house. He's upset, angry, and grouchy, but yet in his eyes, he is never mad. Drives me crazy.
OMG and yes I was the one that was always mad...
And I wanted to argue...
I always got "whatever" when I confronted him on anything... Drove me to the walls...
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
