isitme

I suppose this is a question mostly for those who have dealt with their own addictions. We all know about the nonsensical speak that comes from A’s when they’ve had their share. Some things just plain don’t make sense and are fairly easy to blow off. The hard part comes when you feel like it’s really their true feelings coming out.

I know when I was drinking I’d go off the wall, calling names and saying mean, hurtful and insensitive things. But you know what.. really, I meant them. I wasn’t particularly proud of my behavior in the morning, and I never meant to hurt anybody, but it seemed that the “real” truth could come out after a few. Alcohol gives you that wonderful trait of having No Tact! Truth was I had no reason to shield anyone from my feelings or thoughts about them or anything else for that matter when I was on the bottle.

What I’m wondering is, is it like this for all A’s? We all know the apologies to follow but what is the apology really for? That you feel bad you actually said it, or that you really didn’t mean it? ABF said a lot of really hurtful things last night. And the hardest part in listening to the apology this morning was that I’m not sure what he’s really sorry for. In my heart I believe he meant every word that came out of his mouth. He’s just sorry he let it out.

And how to do take and apology like that? It’s not ok, I don’t feel better. Just because you tell me it’s your fault and it’s not me, and you’re the screwed up one.. how is that supposed to help? It doesn’t make it hurt any less, and there weren’t even any empty promises of getting better. The only truthful thing I could say was.. I don’t know how much more I can take. It’s heart breaking.

Barbara52

The apologies I heard from my xAH were meaningless drivel meant to appease me and try to get back to the way he was most comfortable. I stopped listening to them.

isitme

It's not so much the apology I care about.. I know it's the smooth over. It's what was said.. was it mindless drunk speak.. or the real light shinning through?

Lilyflower

I have always believed that true apologies are followed with a concerted effort to not repeat the behaviour.

Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Freedom1990

Hmmm, interesting question. As a long-term recovering alkie/addict myself, I can honestly say that the venom that spewed out of my mouth during my active days was more how I felt about myself and my unresolved issues than what was the truth about someone else.

Of course back then I rationalized that it was indeed how I felt about them, and alcohol/drugs gave me the 'courage' to say it.

Barbara52

Didn't matter to me one way or the other. Nothing ever changed with him so the reason/basis of the apologies was irrelevant.

Reddmax

Though, if you're a rational person, its hard not to consider the words and works of the alcoholic in your life. You get caught between two realities, the lucid one, and the venom spewing hell. After a while, you don't know which one is real, and which one isn't.

Redd

isitme

Freedom - That's exactly what I'm talking about. I can take the stuff he says about me and through it out the window, because I'm slowly learning to not care what others think about me whether it be their true feelings or not.

This was a little different though. It was more about his feelings about becoming a father again within the next 4 weeks. So, without starting a big pity party post you can see where that was headed. Plus I'm damn hormonal and emotional right now anyway..

Freedom1990

Oh dear, I do feel for you with being pregnant and hormonal! :ghug2

DeVon-who is NOT contributing to the population anymore and has been clipped, whipped, dipped, and snipped!

theotherone

I myself have always wanted to know if the words they spewed were real feelings. My A has basically "sealed the deal" with the abusive vile he has thrown out while intoxicated. It doesn't matter if he was under the influence or stone cold sober...he said them and I wouldn't accept the same words from my worst enemy or a total stranger...I know I don't make things up when I am angered, so what he says to me must be real. I don't take any of it personally anymore...sadly, his opinion doesn't matter at this point.

I am sorry if you were hurt and you don't deserve to be treated that way.

justanothrdrunk

If I were about to become the father (again) to a new baby and I was still actively using, I would be scared $4itless. I sure wouldn't want to be a new dad again in that scenario.

So with me, it would probably turn into your fault, and I didn't want the baby, you did. And this is all because of you. Blah blah... Everything would be fine if there weren't a baby coming. Blah blah... It's you, it's not me.

But taking alcohol out of the picture? No, that won't fix anything. It's about you and the baby, not me and the booze.

If that's what you're hearing, and it were coming from me, that's not the truth. It's the disease talking. Or, I should say, that's the booze talking.

isitme

Talk about dead on. I'm glad to hear someone say it's just the booze talking. It's still hard to believe though.

It's hard to stomach that we'll have a beautiful little boy in a few short weeks and that his father still doesn't want him. He says he'll love him just like our daughter but when you hear so much negativity about it that's hard to believe too. It would be one thing if we weren't together and he was denying or not wanting the baby. But that's not the case.

Thanks so much for your insight!!

maybell

Here is what I have learned. Run. As fast as you can and don't look back. I was so ignorant of alcoholism. Recently I talked to a woman who has lived with an alcoholic for essentially her life. They are almost 80 years old. He has been sober for 25 years. That means that he raised his kids drunk, why they only recently started talking to him!!! They have been active in AA for 25 years. So she lived with him drunk for 30 years and then listened to him talk about it for 25 more.

Escape. I asked her if she knew what she knows now would she stay. She said No. It broke my heart. Now he is sick and she is still taking care of him -- she depends on him for nothing, she learned to detach. What a way to live your life. Ok, I know it is a disease, so limit its victims to one. Don't include yourself, your kids, your family pet.

I told my alcoholic after four years of enabling on a large scale -- no more. No job, no money, no vehicle. I just kept providing and providing. His money went to booze. When you have to keep a roof over your head and food in the refrigerator because you have kids and someone lives in the house who is drunk .... guess what? The basic survival stuff is met and they can survive quite nicely doing nothing.

Then comes the charm and the empty promises and the ways of getting money out of you .... finally he drove my truck drunk, I took the keys and said you cannot live here and drink. So for two years he didn't drink, but he couldn't go anywhere, because he would want to drink if he did, so we stayed at home and got addicted to video games and ate too much and lost contact with the entire world.

He still didn't contribute and when I said this time you must give me a start time that you will at least help with the utilities -- he backed a truck up to the house loaded everything he wanted, including the can of change -- and moved in with his sister who provides a net. He did this while I was out of town. BUT -- he loves me.

Of course he is drinking again and hiding it from his sister. I would tell her, but right now my motivations are spiteful not caring. So until I have the correct heart, I am staying silent.

Here is the deal. You can't change an alcoholic. So leave, protect yourself and your family. He will work on your confidence til you have none. He will entrap you because that is just what happens. If he wants a different life he will go get it (a sober one) and if you haven't completely expunged him from your heart then maybe and that is a big maybe -- you have a chance of working it out.

Why do you want to live with someone that you have to detach from? What in the hell is the point?

I don't miss him. I am annoyed with his sister who keeps out the welcome mat -- he becomes her "son" when he moves back home. She doesn't think he can succeed at anything and makes sure that he knows when he fails one more time -- he can come on back. He is 45. 45!!! Holy cow. So, take this fool's advice -- run run run and don't look back.

He will replace you, don't worry about that, cause until he is sober and sober in his head she will have the miserable life you left behind.

And as far as the ranting goes? The best defense is a good offense. So when someone is telling you all the nasty things they think of you -- they obviously thought them, and sometimes it is just a good ploy because if they yell first, you are put in a position of defending yourself --it deflects from the actual and very real situation that they are falling down drunk. Again.

Rainbowgirl128

hmm, on one hand...alcohol does lower inhibitions. so there is a chance that he feels (or thinks he feels) whatever he said. on the other hand, ive said plenty of stuff when i was drunk the i absolutely did not believe or feel when i was sober. there is a good chance that he was just spouting drunkspeak.

it is important to remember that alcoholics are plagued with a terrible guilt and become very defensive. we are so insecure about our problem (while in the active addiction stage) that anyone or anything that brings the problem out into the light is the target of displaced negative feelings. so if your A worries that having another child will interfere with his drinking he may resent the situation. im sorry you are hurting. just remember that he is sick and, like other illnesses, alcoholism makes people behave differently than they normally do. please try not to take it personally.

LaTeeDa

Same conclusion I came to.

I get a new bit of wisdom every day I come here.

Thanks,
L

justanothrdrunk

I'll share a little more here. Guy's perspective I guess, and a former drunk's too.

We have a 3 year old son, and we have been trying to have another. Before our first little guy came along, and before I was sober, I seriously didn't want a child for a few reasons.

1. Cuts into my drinking time (from the brain of an active drunk, married, no kids)
I have a schedule to keep. I wake up, still a little drunk from the night before. I calculate how drunk I am, how long before I'll be able to drink again, and gague how bad the shakes will get. I hit the bottle first thing in the AM if needed. Go to work. Come home, and hit it hard 'til zero-pass out-thirty. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

If there's a baby in the house, you might actually expect me to help you with stuff. And I'm usually too drunk to do that. So that means I will need to drink less. That's a scary thought to me being an active alcoholic.

2. Being an active alcoholic, I know darn well I'm not equipped to be a dad. So now am I not only worried about having to drink less, I'm ashamed as well because I'm about to be a drunk dad.

Factor one child in the picture already with a new one on the way. The above is exactly the same for me. Now that I'm sober, the prospect of a second child seems like no big deal. I'm a veteran dad now so I know what to expect and I'm actually looking forward to another little rugrat scurrying about the house. But, like the above, when I'm drinking, more kids are not good for me.

1. Second baby cuts into my drinking time.
I have a schedule to keep. Sure, we already have one. But I'm used to one child. Adding another to the mix would further reduce my drinking time and that we cannot have.

2. Being an active alcoholic, I know darn well I'm not equipped to be a dad. I know I'm already messing up one kid's life by being a drunk, and now I'm going to mess with two kid's lives. Now I'm going to be doubly ashamed about being a drunk dad.

When I was a drunk, change was bad. I was in a drinking rut and I liked it. Don't change my pattern.

If your A is anything like me, this is exactly what is going on inside his head.

LarryATL

I think this describes my experiences with my AW (still active). The things I hear come out of her mouth when in a drunken rage fall into two sub-types in my view.

One, the things that she really is thinking deep down and the alcohol gave her the courage to say it (maybe 10-20% of things that come out of her mouth). Two (the remaining 80-90%) was the venom that really was how she feels about herself and her unresolved issues.

Of the part Two stuff, it of course hurt like hell to hear such venom directed at me, but I came to realize that it is just her own low self esteem, self hatred, guilt, etc. that was causing her to say things that were just ridiculous ... and I learned not to take them personally. I mean she accused me of things that I knew not to be true.... not debatable things...

On the other hand I finally put a boundary in place that I would know longer listen to this crap.... I would leave the room or vicinity if she does it. Boundary worked.... for the most part. :-)

Larry

isitme

Oh these are the things I think on a daily basis. Detachment just doesn't seem like a reasonable option to me. I don't seem to be able to combine the "detaching" with the "with love" part. It's seems so pointless to try to remain with someone you have to purposely put out of your mind. I'm sure there are better ways of explaining it, but you get the idea.

And I guess if I really admit it to myself I'm scared SH**LESS to set boundaries! I already know that it won't take long for them to be broken and then the ball with be back in my court to enforce or follow through with the reproductions of those broken boundaries. More than likely that action would consist of leaving.

I just feel so confused. I want to leave. I'm not really that scared of the financial stuff. I'm certainly not scared of physically caring for the kids on my own, because I do that anyway. So what is it.. what is keeping me in this "trap"? I know it will happen (as many have so truthfully put it) when the fear of staying out weights the fear of leaving. But Ugh.. I just want to let go and move on but I don't seem to know how.

Pajarito

Detachment confused me too. One day I realized that from morning until I went to bed at night I was trying to detach. Light bulb!!! What is the point of being with a person whom I can't be engaged with- most of the time? Detaching was protecting me- but is it a healthy marriage if I am trying to protect myself from him?

I didn't know how to let go either- he left me. It was a gift- although he probably wouldn't see it that way. All I can say is I believe things happen for a reason in their own time.

Oh- and as for this thread- I decided that I don't give a d*** what problems a person may have- be nice or leave. Being drunk doesn't excuse bad behavior- and I no longer put up with subjecting myself to it.

Melec

Wow. Justanothrdrunk hit the nail on the head. This new baby is going to interfere with his drinking. That's what bugging him. Think about that.
I'm biting my lip as I write this but when I was reading this thread, I just kept thinking, she's going to have another child in four weeks and she's worried about what he's rambling about when he's drunk?
That is no way to live, honey. What a stress on you.
I hope something gives- whether you are able to make the decision to go, or he makes the decision to grow up and be a father to his children.
I just hope your kids aren't on a site like this one day asking whether Dad means everything he says when he's drunk.
Hugs and good wishes to you. :ghug