HELP: Fiance admitted she has a problem but....
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: School of Life
Posts: 16
HELP: Fiance admitted she has a problem but....
Hi all,
I was planning an intervention for my fiance and low and behold she admitted today in chat, while hung over, that she thinks she has a problem with alcohol and has had one for quite a while. Luckily we had a counciling session today with a therepist that is a recovering alcoholic of 20 years +! I floated the idea that maybe she should talk to our councelor about it. SHe said she would. OMG I almost fell off my chair!
So we get to the councelors office and we eventually breach it and she turns pretty quickly to denial. At one point she turns to me and says if I don't stop drinking are you going to leave me? I was just starting to get help for my recently diagnosed co-dependance said yes. Damn...she freaked. I should of clarified that if this turns out to be a problem and if she chooses not to do anthing about it then I will leave. And I will. She started going off saying that I was only looking for her problems in this relationship. I owned mine. I even offered to quit smiking today and meant it. I said would follow her into 100% sobriety. She said but I'm the party girl, it's who I am. The session ended and she bolted.
My questions is at this point what can I do? if anything. I am fighting the urge to try and "help" her see. hmmm maybe I should just worry about what I have control over and I don't have control over that....I just want her and us to win!
Open for ANY suggestions maybe even just things I shouldn't do?
Thanks in advance,
Midknight
I was planning an intervention for my fiance and low and behold she admitted today in chat, while hung over, that she thinks she has a problem with alcohol and has had one for quite a while. Luckily we had a counciling session today with a therepist that is a recovering alcoholic of 20 years +! I floated the idea that maybe she should talk to our councelor about it. SHe said she would. OMG I almost fell off my chair!
So we get to the councelors office and we eventually breach it and she turns pretty quickly to denial. At one point she turns to me and says if I don't stop drinking are you going to leave me? I was just starting to get help for my recently diagnosed co-dependance said yes. Damn...she freaked. I should of clarified that if this turns out to be a problem and if she chooses not to do anthing about it then I will leave. And I will. She started going off saying that I was only looking for her problems in this relationship. I owned mine. I even offered to quit smiking today and meant it. I said would follow her into 100% sobriety. She said but I'm the party girl, it's who I am. The session ended and she bolted.
My questions is at this point what can I do? if anything. I am fighting the urge to try and "help" her see. hmmm maybe I should just worry about what I have control over and I don't have control over that....I just want her and us to win!
Open for ANY suggestions maybe even just things I shouldn't do?
Thanks in advance,
Midknight
Learning to love life...
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 529
Hi Midknight,
Just over a year ago, I was in exactly the same place as you. My husband and I had been married for a year, but together for some time before that; he had drank and used drugs "socially" since before I had met him. He too was the "party guy".
I had been living with the binges and seeing our money / friendships dwindle for some time, and one day I decided that enough was enough. I called the Drug and Alcohol referral centre in our area and made an appoinment for myself; I walked into that session with ONE question on my mind "How do I GET HIM SOBER?!". I was sure that there was SOMETHING I could do, some way I could HELP him "see the light". But that darn counsellor told me to make my wednesday nights free, and get to an alanon meeting. In my irrationality, I assumed that the people at the meetings would tell me what to do... I was in for a shock. This counsellor WAS a huge help to my husband however, as he made a tentative appointment for him, and asked me to encourage him to go. He did...
I am sure that us codependants believe at one time or another that we can LOVE them into sobriety... There MUST be something we can do to help. And, it is in our nature to feel worthless when we realize we are powerless; if we CAN'T help, than why are we here? What good are we?
The meetings were hard to take at first; I was the youngest one there (28 at the time), amongst a room full of Alanon old-timers. These people were NOT suffering like I was; they had no idea the crap I was dealing with. I didn't share the first couple of times, but I listened... and I cried when I left because they WERE like me; only THEY weren't suffering anymore.
I am sooo trying not to drag this out
To make it short, eventually the messages began to sink in. I was ready to hear them as well, because I was at a point of surrender... I knew I could not go back (to living in the disfunction of our marriage), and I was ready to take whatever encouragement, help and advice these people were willing to give.
I learned that MY unhappiness has nothing to do with HIM (his disease / behavior); I am unhappy because I ALLOW myself to be. I reminded myself that it's OK to FEEL angry, sad, shamed, depressed etc, but that I don't always need to ACT on those feelings... FEEL it, and LET IT GO.
I learned that I am POWERLESS over the disease and over his choices and behavior... But I am FAR from helpless. If I am able to turn the focus of my life inward on myself, I begin to feel EMPOWERED.
I learned to DETACH (this takes a while to grasp). I had to "fake it" for a while... NOT let myself react to his drinking, his nasty words, his stupidity and irresponsibility. I had to LET him have his disease - let him OWN it, as I kept my "hands off". Those idle threats? "The next time you drink, I am leaving!"... I had to toss them out the window and keep my mouth shut.
And, more recently, I learned that the more I take care of myself - HONOR myself - the BETTER I feel, no matter WHAT is going on with him. I know how to protect my finances, my children; I don't put trust where it can easily be lost. I know how to set boundaries that protect MY well being; I will not jeopardize the self-pride and serenity I have worked so hard to attain.
And, of course, I live in the now... TODAY I am happy. My kids are safe, our family is healthy... and TODAY my husband is sober. I have learned to be grateful. My HP can take care of the rest
You are gonna get there too Midknight... you are already reaching out. Imagine your fiances HP taking care of her, and watching out for her... and you just begin taking care of you. Stop letting Alcohol pollute YOUR life as well.
Keep coming here
Take care
Meg
Just over a year ago, I was in exactly the same place as you. My husband and I had been married for a year, but together for some time before that; he had drank and used drugs "socially" since before I had met him. He too was the "party guy".
I had been living with the binges and seeing our money / friendships dwindle for some time, and one day I decided that enough was enough. I called the Drug and Alcohol referral centre in our area and made an appoinment for myself; I walked into that session with ONE question on my mind "How do I GET HIM SOBER?!". I was sure that there was SOMETHING I could do, some way I could HELP him "see the light". But that darn counsellor told me to make my wednesday nights free, and get to an alanon meeting. In my irrationality, I assumed that the people at the meetings would tell me what to do... I was in for a shock. This counsellor WAS a huge help to my husband however, as he made a tentative appointment for him, and asked me to encourage him to go. He did...
I am sure that us codependants believe at one time or another that we can LOVE them into sobriety... There MUST be something we can do to help. And, it is in our nature to feel worthless when we realize we are powerless; if we CAN'T help, than why are we here? What good are we?
The meetings were hard to take at first; I was the youngest one there (28 at the time), amongst a room full of Alanon old-timers. These people were NOT suffering like I was; they had no idea the crap I was dealing with. I didn't share the first couple of times, but I listened... and I cried when I left because they WERE like me; only THEY weren't suffering anymore.
I am sooo trying not to drag this out
To make it short, eventually the messages began to sink in. I was ready to hear them as well, because I was at a point of surrender... I knew I could not go back (to living in the disfunction of our marriage), and I was ready to take whatever encouragement, help and advice these people were willing to give.
I learned that MY unhappiness has nothing to do with HIM (his disease / behavior); I am unhappy because I ALLOW myself to be. I reminded myself that it's OK to FEEL angry, sad, shamed, depressed etc, but that I don't always need to ACT on those feelings... FEEL it, and LET IT GO.
I learned that I am POWERLESS over the disease and over his choices and behavior... But I am FAR from helpless. If I am able to turn the focus of my life inward on myself, I begin to feel EMPOWERED.
I learned to DETACH (this takes a while to grasp). I had to "fake it" for a while... NOT let myself react to his drinking, his nasty words, his stupidity and irresponsibility. I had to LET him have his disease - let him OWN it, as I kept my "hands off". Those idle threats? "The next time you drink, I am leaving!"... I had to toss them out the window and keep my mouth shut.
And, more recently, I learned that the more I take care of myself - HONOR myself - the BETTER I feel, no matter WHAT is going on with him. I know how to protect my finances, my children; I don't put trust where it can easily be lost. I know how to set boundaries that protect MY well being; I will not jeopardize the self-pride and serenity I have worked so hard to attain.
And, of course, I live in the now... TODAY I am happy. My kids are safe, our family is healthy... and TODAY my husband is sober. I have learned to be grateful. My HP can take care of the rest
You are gonna get there too Midknight... you are already reaching out. Imagine your fiances HP taking care of her, and watching out for her... and you just begin taking care of you. Stop letting Alcohol pollute YOUR life as well.
Keep coming here
Take care
Meg
Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Washington
Posts: 129
What a powerful post
Meg,
"Truly Inspirational" comes to mind as I read and re-read your post to Midknight.
Midknight--I feel your pain, and I know it sucks. I'm still in the early stages of recovery myself..I battle daily with self will and letting go and accepting I have no control over him. He is in recovery now, but it's still difficult. When my H went on his last binge, and I knew I couldn't live this way any more, he literally told me he had nothing left to live for and wanted to die--I looked at him and said "you are going to die anyway if you stay here." Making the choice right then, when he was at his most pathetic, was the best thing I have done yet, for myself. Accepting that I have no power over any of it is something I have to 'fake' a lot too, and often times don't do a very good job of. Recognizing this is progress though, and that in itself is a step in the right direction. I'm glad you're going to counselling, coming here and if you haven't already, try a f2f Alanon meeting. There is a lot of support and love to be found there.
Best wishes,
"Truly Inspirational" comes to mind as I read and re-read your post to Midknight.
Midknight--I feel your pain, and I know it sucks. I'm still in the early stages of recovery myself..I battle daily with self will and letting go and accepting I have no control over him. He is in recovery now, but it's still difficult. When my H went on his last binge, and I knew I couldn't live this way any more, he literally told me he had nothing left to live for and wanted to die--I looked at him and said "you are going to die anyway if you stay here." Making the choice right then, when he was at his most pathetic, was the best thing I have done yet, for myself. Accepting that I have no power over any of it is something I have to 'fake' a lot too, and often times don't do a very good job of. Recognizing this is progress though, and that in itself is a step in the right direction. I'm glad you're going to counselling, coming here and if you haven't already, try a f2f Alanon meeting. There is a lot of support and love to be found there.
Best wishes,
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 94
What wonderful messages you all have shared here! I am up at my computer (not sleeping well tonight). Just reading what you all have to say about moving out of codependency (always trying to FIX another person's problem) helps me understand the terrible temptation I'm going through right now to try to FIX my friend, DD (dry drunk). Well, I'm am taking steps around this FIXIT TRAP!
Instead of emailing DD to see how he was feeling (pulled his back) or to try to put plans together to be together for the next few days, I called my best friend, G and talked for an hour. What a good thing to do for myself! We laughed and commiserated about the choices we have made with "needy" people. For tomorrow and the rest of the weekend I'm going to dig out my TO DO list and do things I've set aside for months! I'm going to get a manicure, go out to dinner, see a movie, too.
This does not mean that I don't have weird "queasy" feelings about changing my behavior around him. I'm learning to take the long, slow, deep breath. I did say to DD "Playtime for us is over". Now, to continue to keep minimizing the time we spend together -socially. I've stopped asking him to go out together to various events. After all, he has his special, lady - hope to be long relationship. Again, I wish them both well. Go! Go! Go! Bye-Bye!
Instead of emailing DD to see how he was feeling (pulled his back) or to try to put plans together to be together for the next few days, I called my best friend, G and talked for an hour. What a good thing to do for myself! We laughed and commiserated about the choices we have made with "needy" people. For tomorrow and the rest of the weekend I'm going to dig out my TO DO list and do things I've set aside for months! I'm going to get a manicure, go out to dinner, see a movie, too.
This does not mean that I don't have weird "queasy" feelings about changing my behavior around him. I'm learning to take the long, slow, deep breath. I did say to DD "Playtime for us is over". Now, to continue to keep minimizing the time we spend together -socially. I've stopped asking him to go out together to various events. After all, he has his special, lady - hope to be long relationship. Again, I wish them both well. Go! Go! Go! Bye-Bye!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: georgia
Posts: 531
Midknight, probably the best thing you can do to "help" her is to work on you! Work your own recovery. When we quit "helping" them they are forced to face the consequences of their behaviour. I am not saying that will "fix" her, but it will take you out of the blame loop (because she will be doing it all alone) and you will feel better when you are worrying less about what she is doing and how to help her.
My A also gave me the "that is who I am and if you don't like then leave" or "you knew I was like this when you married me", "I am what you see" and so on and so forth.....then of course there were the "blaming" reasons too. I put too much pressure on him, b****** to much, expected too much, etc. I used to beat myself up over all this and I took the blame for all of it.....then I found al-anon and I began working on me....now I feel good about myself and have learned to detach from the things he says like that. I know I DIDN'T cause it any more than I can FIX it.
Your're headed on the right path and doing very well....keep working it and keep posting.
Constant
My A also gave me the "that is who I am and if you don't like then leave" or "you knew I was like this when you married me", "I am what you see" and so on and so forth.....then of course there were the "blaming" reasons too. I put too much pressure on him, b****** to much, expected too much, etc. I used to beat myself up over all this and I took the blame for all of it.....then I found al-anon and I began working on me....now I feel good about myself and have learned to detach from the things he says like that. I know I DIDN'T cause it any more than I can FIX it.
Your're headed on the right path and doing very well....keep working it and keep posting.
Constant
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ayer's Cliff, Quebec
Posts: 803
There's nothing you can do except take care of you. The best thing you can do for you and her is take care of you because while you are doing that you are getting stronger and she'll be more apt to live the natural consequences of her drinking.
Ngaire
Ngaire
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: School of Life
Posts: 16
UPDATE: she's mulling
Thanks everyone for the replies they have helped a lot. Well it's certainly kicking around in her head. She been saying if we both go sober for 90 days (I'm voluntarily joining her) like the therapist recommended that we won't be able to drink at "X" events coming up! I said we'll deal with it and probably have fun!
No commitment from her. She's been out drinking 4 nights this week! All social engagements but still 3 of the 4 she's been pretty drunk. I told her that I'm not going to tell her she shouldn't drink or keep track of how much she does drink. This is her problem and it's her business. I find myself WANTING to ask but I don't. I taste the words on my lips and then swollow them. I let that go. I want her to SEE so badly her problem but I keep reminding myself that she is the captain on her ship to sobriety! Only she can decide if she's going to chart that coarse. I gotta remember I'm not on her ship and that I'm the captain of my own ship and if she decides to chart a coarse into dangerous waters that I need to chart my own coarse. The winds are a changing, storms ahead or clear skies only higher powers know!
One question for me still lingers. How long do I wait for her to get herself into some kind of treatment (AA & counceling)?
I'm thinking a month, any opinions on that? More time?
Remember that fears are rarely as scary as they seem when you face them and the inverse of this is that you are stronger than you think and you'll find the strength when you try!
Stay strong my newfound friends,
-Midknight
No commitment from her. She's been out drinking 4 nights this week! All social engagements but still 3 of the 4 she's been pretty drunk. I told her that I'm not going to tell her she shouldn't drink or keep track of how much she does drink. This is her problem and it's her business. I find myself WANTING to ask but I don't. I taste the words on my lips and then swollow them. I let that go. I want her to SEE so badly her problem but I keep reminding myself that she is the captain on her ship to sobriety! Only she can decide if she's going to chart that coarse. I gotta remember I'm not on her ship and that I'm the captain of my own ship and if she decides to chart a coarse into dangerous waters that I need to chart my own coarse. The winds are a changing, storms ahead or clear skies only higher powers know!
One question for me still lingers. How long do I wait for her to get herself into some kind of treatment (AA & counceling)?
I'm thinking a month, any opinions on that? More time?
Remember that fears are rarely as scary as they seem when you face them and the inverse of this is that you are stronger than you think and you'll find the strength when you try!
Stay strong my newfound friends,
-Midknight
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 31
My A does the same...he always has an event not far down the line that he has to attend and may have to have drink one or two which always leads to more.
As far as your lingering question..."How long do I wait"? I don't have any answers for you. I think each case is different. My A and I split back in April and have spent some of the weekends together but I cannot handle the chaos through the week when I have to work - I don't need any distractions. Here we are 3 1/2 months later and he is no closer to recovery than he was then. He actually has gotten worse with his drinking but wouldn't admit it.
I am looking forward to reading the responses you will get because I ask that question to myself quite often now. "How much longer should I wait." I guess the answer will come to me when it is time.
As far as your lingering question..."How long do I wait"? I don't have any answers for you. I think each case is different. My A and I split back in April and have spent some of the weekends together but I cannot handle the chaos through the week when I have to work - I don't need any distractions. Here we are 3 1/2 months later and he is no closer to recovery than he was then. He actually has gotten worse with his drinking but wouldn't admit it.
I am looking forward to reading the responses you will get because I ask that question to myself quite often now. "How much longer should I wait." I guess the answer will come to me when it is time.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: georgia
Posts: 531
How long should I wait? Well that is a question that only you can answer. After working on your recovery and working the 12 steps you will decided what you are willing to live with and what you are not. That is a lot of setting boundaries. Only you know the answer to that question, but working your program will help you to answer it.
Sunshyne you hit the nail right on the head with the answer will come with time.....there is no set anwer.....everyone is different and so it each and every recovery.
Wish I did have the magic ball with the answers to when, where, and why, but I don't.
Keep working, you are doing wonderfully!
Constant
Sunshyne you hit the nail right on the head with the answer will come with time.....there is no set anwer.....everyone is different and so it each and every recovery.
Wish I did have the magic ball with the answers to when, where, and why, but I don't.
Keep working, you are doing wonderfully!
Constant
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 94
(((Midknight))) Thinking of you and every one of us who are making the decision to treat ourselves with dignity and respect. Why should we allow ourselves to be treated with nothing less than dignity and respect? If "they" choose to hurt themselves, do we need to stick around and suffer for their abuse to themselves? I think not! But, if we are loving to ourselves and have the courage to care enough for ourselves then it will happen (or not happen) that the other person sees what we are doing and want to be with us. OR, and this is the big one, OR they will choose the booze because it is their first LOVE - their choice, their addiction, their sorry state of living - to abuse with booze.
Sending you more GREAT BIG HUGS (((HUGS))) (((HUGS))) as you go out and do something wonderful for YOU!
Sending you more GREAT BIG HUGS (((HUGS))) (((HUGS))) as you go out and do something wonderful for YOU!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Washington
Posts: 129
Midknight,
How long should you wait? Until you know you can’t do it any longer. Only you will know that. I’ve had people tell me they can’t believe how long I’ve put up with his crap, and they would have left the first time, or at the very minimum only given him one chance. But they don’t know until they’ve lived it, and they certainly don’t know what their own limits would be until they were living it.
Giving up doesn’t mean you have to stop caring or loving. It’s letting go of the need to control/change them and letting them make their choices, while we make ours. Minding our own business and not fretting about what they are or are not doing. I read a lot on here a certain phrase that I really like, and it goes something like ‘they won’t stop until the pain of drinking becomes worse than the pain of not drinking.’
You making healthy choices to better your life and set boundaries and focus on you and your needs will only make it easier for you to move on if she isn’t able to make it into recovery, or it may be the incentive she needs to help her take that step and mean it.
((hugs)) stay strong,
How long should you wait? Until you know you can’t do it any longer. Only you will know that. I’ve had people tell me they can’t believe how long I’ve put up with his crap, and they would have left the first time, or at the very minimum only given him one chance. But they don’t know until they’ve lived it, and they certainly don’t know what their own limits would be until they were living it.
Giving up doesn’t mean you have to stop caring or loving. It’s letting go of the need to control/change them and letting them make their choices, while we make ours. Minding our own business and not fretting about what they are or are not doing. I read a lot on here a certain phrase that I really like, and it goes something like ‘they won’t stop until the pain of drinking becomes worse than the pain of not drinking.’
You making healthy choices to better your life and set boundaries and focus on you and your needs will only make it easier for you to move on if she isn’t able to make it into recovery, or it may be the incentive she needs to help her take that step and mean it.
((hugs)) stay strong,
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