Disease or Weak Sole?

Old 08-18-2008, 12:42 PM
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Disease or Weak Sole?

All weekend I was thinking about all the hard times/pain, I went through with my exALBF and the whole relationship. I even cried for a while and got so upset. I feel weak that I am still not fully over this. When will these memories disappear?

I decided to go to a retreat in Sept to get help and release all this pain for the last time. However, I still need answers so I began to read some threads on the alcoholism link and asked some of them who are still active why they cheat/lie etc. So many read my tread but only a few were brave enough to answer it. Some of the responses were comments like; their mind tells that is ok to cheat/lie/steel. They know it is wrong but they cannot control it. Most said they wish they could stop it. (Whether it would be sex, lies, steeling, verbal abuse etc……) One said for me to RUN RUN RUN, why be involved with a total loser. Most of the people on that link called alcoholism a disease. However, to me a disease is something that you would want to get rid right? Say, you had cancer or diabetes; you would do everything to help yourself to get well wouldn’t you? So if it is a disease then why don’t they all get help for it?

I really would love to know if this is really a disease or just an addiction that they developed over the years because they can’t deal with life…Some others on that link also said that when they drink they can do whatever they wan to, treat people anyway they want to and blame it on being drunk. One said when he got sober he had to take responsibility now. Another said that being sober bores them and they do not know what to do with their free time……. Another said God has nothing to do with recovery…… I am so angry reading some of these statements. I suffered so much by the hand of an alcoholic, to me I feel more and more like they hind behind this “so called” illness to hind from LIFE and take down others in their path.

Maybe these people unfortunately were born a weak sole and we call is alcoholism!
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Old 08-18-2008, 12:52 PM
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This topic has been debated to death in the 3 years I have been reading this site. Do a search of posts on the word "disease" and you will get hundreds of threads. There is no black and white answer to the question.

But, you know what? It doesn't matter unless you are the person working for the insurance company who approves the claims for treatment.

Disease or not--is it okay for you that someone treats you badly? Does it matter what causes someone to behave in an unacceptable way? You are the one who makes the choice of who you have in your life. Do you want this person in your life? Do they enhance and enrich your life? Or do they diminish it? If you make your decisions based on behavior, then it doesn't matter the cause of the behavior.

L
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:05 PM
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You are 100% right, now matter what the reason is, no one should accept being treated badly. WOW, your statement really hit home. Thank you, all this time I racked my brain to understand how can I excuse this behavior because I loved him. However, there is no EXCUSE!!!! I would never take this crap from a friend or anyone else so why did I take it from him. I am so mad at myself for being so weak and believing that he loved me. This is not love, he would not even marry me he said he did not love me enough or I was not worth it. The next day when he sober he said I misunderstood and he would never say that……. Plus, on time sober, he said one-half or him wants to marry me and other half cannot……. Are you kidding me, love me enough he is one with all the issues and he has the right to reject me. I cannot get past that, rejected by a messed up sole……
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:13 PM
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Well, I can't say that I've ever heard reference to a weak soul as the cause. Now if you want to talk about a 'hole in the soul', I can speak from experience.

I think I was born an alcoholic. I never ever felt like I fit in anywhere, even as a child. I had this sensation of never being comfortable in my own skin. There was a big empty spot in my soul where the cold winds blew, and the solution that I discovered was chemical in nature. I was raised in a good middle class family, albeit now looking back, there were a lot of dsyfunctional and rigid attitudes that carried over from generations of alcoholism on both sides of the family.

I didn't want for anything material, though my family lived on a budget and I didn't always get what I wanted, but always what I needed.

I attended church and catechism on a regular basis, was an organist at church for 5 years.

My parents always told me they loved me before I'd go to bed at night and give me a hug and a kiss.

We did family things on a regular basis.

Why wasn't that enough for me?

I don't know. I just know something was missing inside.

I also qualify as a codependent, having been married to an alkie/addict who was buried last year at the tender age of 47.

I also have two alcoholic daughters, the youngest who just wrecked her car badly this past weekend.

I love them both, but I don't have to approve of their choices.

They've both been raised around recovery, and still chose a path I wished neither one ever would.

Why did they choose that path?

I don't know. The why isn't important to me; it's what am I going to do with this moment in front of me that is.

Today I have a full and reasonably happy life in spite of having two alcoholic daughters.

I just started college classes today and am going for a double degree.

I have found for me, especially in my codependency issues, that I wasn't nearly as angry at the alcoholic as I was at myself for putting myself in a position to be hurt in the first place.

Forgiveness of self has been one of the most difficult things I've ever had to do, but it was so worth it.
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:50 PM
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The one thing I know for sure is that if you are still seeing him, then you are excluding yourself from meeting a "keeper" unless you want to cheat!
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Old 08-18-2008, 05:05 PM
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Hi Baby
Not that long ago I use to ask the same questions. In my own mind I needed at that time to know the answers but life is full of unanswered questions therefore, I choose to accept just that.
There are families with children who suffer with all sorts of disabilities, diseases etc. My father was terribly sick growing up and died from neumonia. My nephew had cronic ADD, my family has had much cancer and much alcoholism.
I guess what I am saying is many things affect our lives but it is how we choose to handle it or live with it that matters. The grief that one can inflict on another can be cruel but at the end of the day you can walk away and just say - its ok to be me and its ok to say no. Its hard when we love someone and I had to weigh up the love compared to my sanity. Sanity won!
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Old 08-18-2008, 05:17 PM
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My husband asks himself the disease/choise question often. His words.."maybe I'm just an a**h*** with an attitude problem". Everything about addiction is frustrating to me. At some point the addict made the decision to drink again that night didn't they? Couldn't they have said..gee I was drunk last night maybe I should take it easy tonight. Where is the point where the line is crossed. I just don't get it and it is sad to think about all the people (addicts and their loved ones) that addiction hurts.

Last edited by justsomegirl; 08-18-2008 at 05:18 PM. Reason: sorry, I used a swear word.
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Old 08-18-2008, 08:54 PM
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I think this is a diesease - not weak constitution. I do know that we do not have to bend our lives continually to make their lives easier. I wouldn't say that if I wasn't an alcoholic myself. To me - I absolutely can not stop drinking at one drink. Now - if it was weak constitution - then like with chocolate, I should be able to stop, right??

Well - anyway - thanks for the post.
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Old 08-18-2008, 09:51 PM
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Hi babyo--
Whether you decide this is a disease or not a disease the way addiction changes a brain is well documented.

Alcoholism is a powerful, powerful addiction. The compulsion to drink is overwhelming - it overwhelms good sense, reason, fear, love, responsibility...it is a serious addiction and addiction pretty much steamrolls everything out of the way in order to be fed.

The book Under The influence by Milam & Ketcham gives a solid picture of what is going on physically as this addiction progresses.

"to me a disease is something that you would want to get rid right? Say, you had cancer or diabetes; you would do everything to help yourself to get well wouldn’t you? So if it is a disease then why don’t they all get help for it?"

Well actually many many people with diabetes or cancer are non-compliant with treatments that would help them. Many.

Just because you are certain of what YOU would do if you were an addict or a diabetic doesn't mean everyone thinks the same as you or even has the capacity or context to think the same thoughts that you do...

I mean, seriously, can you say truthfully that you are on top of all your problems in life? That you ask for and ACCEPT help for all your problems? I know I don't! I've kept myself in many a fine rut over the years!!! And the problem of addiction is much, much bigger than any problem I've ever had to confront.

I thank my lucky stars every day I am not an alocoholic like my brothers. Because my own problems are trouble enough for me, and if I had all the mess that addiction brings on top of that??? Yuk-o-la.

For me, I've just accepted that it is a FORCE. Disease, not disease, genetic, not genetic, doesn't matter. It is something, obviously, way too powerful for me to control! Once it has its hooks in the person it is the battle of their life to get out. Some find a way. Some struggle to find a way and fail. Some do not even try to find a way.

What I learned in AlAnon was that focusing on these unanswerable questions instead of on my own problems and my own goals for growth was making me crazy and holding me back!!

Peace,
B.
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Old 08-19-2008, 04:28 AM
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I agree with something I heard at an inpatient family program. Because the American Medical Association classified alcoholism as a disease the medical community began treating it in earnest, insurance companies began covering the treatment, and the negative social stigma began to dissipate. It made treatment available to more people seeking treatment.

These are all good things and beyond that, who cares what it's called. If you agree with the dictionaries definition or not, or the obvious inconsistencies if compared to cancer, etc. If it's used as an excuse for poor behavior by an active addict or not. If it's a result of a poor upbringing or an incomplete soul, or just plain bad luck.

The only thing that matters is if you can live with the behavior associated with it or not.
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Old 08-19-2008, 05:38 AM
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Thank you all for your theories on this topic. Moreover, you are right whether it is a disease, addiction or whatever the force is. The bottom line is can “ONE” handle it and I cannot. I know that for sure however my heart does not fully understand why my head is pulling away. My heart still is so hurt. I guess that is my problem now to try to mend it. I just do not think it is right that people with this problem abuses others so much. But then again I guess people can leave that lifestyle if they want to. However, it is very hard when you feel trapped…… That is where the line of love and sanity comes to play.

For me I just cannot get past all the lies for yrs of him telling me that he cares/loves me. I believed him and I do not how he lives with himself for that….How he was so sorry for everything he did when I found out and I did forgive him. OMG I forgave him and he still cheated. I think I cannot forgive myself for giving him another chance. When I forgive someone for something this huge then to have someone do it again and cross my forgiveness angers me so much. I even was up all night having an anxiety attract over all the memories of all the women. I do not know why I cannot let this go in my mind. I have had plenty of heartaches in the past and let all of them go… To know that he is off right now doing the same crap to someone else makes me sick. I truly regret the day our paths crossed.
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Old 08-19-2008, 05:52 PM
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He's your Ex right? I dont know if this will help or not but I will tell you something about me I havent had the nerve to repeat for a long time.
I met my ex husband when I was 17. We divorced when I was 34. I had never been with another man. I met a man when I went back to study and he was 15yrs older than me. We were going out but something didnt seem right to me (you know those vibes you get but youre not sure). To cut it short, a male friend of my ex's visited my home while we were there and the next minute the guy I was dating starting abusing him and kicked him out. I felt sick, he asked if I was cheating him and the screaming just freaked me out. I found out later he was actually living with another woman and an alcoholic.
So my point - I have been so embarrassed about this I still freaks me out when I think about it. I was an intelligent woman, a mother, protector of my kids and I went out with a lunny bin. How could I be so stupid I thought,, letting someone manipulate me like that. I kicked him out that day and never saw him again. I found it incredibly hard to trust men after that but I learnt that it was him, not all men. I didnt need to know the whys about him, I just got rid of him. Its about finding someone who you can admire and respects you for you.
Maybe this is how you are feeling but more so. What I did was learn from this big time. OK he did this to you and now you have to let it go. Its not your fault, you were just too trusting. Know you are better than the past and grow yourself. If you have a picture of him put it on the floor and jump on it 50 times and tell yourself its over. Haha I just thought Id throw that one in.
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Old 08-20-2008, 04:44 PM
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Thank you so much for sharing your story, I know the feeling of not wanting to tell anyone how you dated such a person. And actually yesterday it really hit me. I am a control freak and also co-dependent but what also hit me was by me still being angry, mad not letting all this go is about my control. I was controlling the only thing I had left (anger) I could not change or control him or what happend but I could control my thoughts and anger..... wow....today I feel so much better letting the control go. I am still sad over it all but I know that him or anyone else for that matter will never hurt me agian.
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Old 08-21-2008, 06:14 AM
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Personally, I think it is a disease. A horrible one...

Some disease never goes away, but "medicine" can put it in check. For the addict/alcoholic, it is recovery...

My friend's father is schizophrenic. When he is not on his medication, he lies, cheats, steals, says sexually inappropriate things to everyone including his daughters, and becomes violent...He become malicious. When he is medicated properly, he doesn't have the symptoms. He is probably then one of the greatest guys I know. However, there are periods of time that he BELIEVES he is not sick, so he comes off the medication or says he doesn't need it. The disease takes over...the same thing with the A. Sometimes they never see what is wrong with them or feel that they can keep the problem in check on their own. They come off of the medicine that is recovery or say they don't need it.

We, as the second party, have a choice to decide whether or not we are going to live and accept their decision. I personally cannot live with my AH anymore because of his choices. That is my choice. My friend's mother chose to leave also because of his choices.

It is easy to question in both cases whether the person is a weak, spiteful person or if that is the disease.
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