Strange days
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Great Lake Country
Posts: 333
Strange days
For those of you who have been following the saga, here is an update.
The weekend was relatively okay. The word relatively means that Friday and Saturday had very little drama. In fact, on Saturday, the AW and I went out and had an enjoyable day.
Sunday, the monster came back. The drinking started at about 1:00 PM, and didn't stop all day.
It was accompanied by all sorts of strange behavior and violations of good sense as well as boundaries.
It ended up with declarations of hate, disgust at me, and total disgust with life.
Shakes head. If it was easy, everyone could do it.
Redd
The weekend was relatively okay. The word relatively means that Friday and Saturday had very little drama. In fact, on Saturday, the AW and I went out and had an enjoyable day.
Sunday, the monster came back. The drinking started at about 1:00 PM, and didn't stop all day.
It was accompanied by all sorts of strange behavior and violations of good sense as well as boundaries.
It ended up with declarations of hate, disgust at me, and total disgust with life.
Shakes head. If it was easy, everyone could do it.
Redd
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Great Lake Country
Posts: 333
I'm still a little conflicted, but yes its looking that way whether I want it or not. The problem is how to do it safely with the least injury to myself or my finances, or my career.
The woman scares me to death.
The woman scares me to death.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 596
Redd,
I feel for you. So she was in the house raging, and you were in the house with her on Sunday. That's the worst thing for you, right? You really can't stand her berating you and acting crazy. If that's the worst thing for you, then do something different. As everyone here says, that doesn't mean you have to divorce her necessarily. But do something different so that you have an alternative to the very worst thing, which is what you experienced Sunday. I mean, if listening to her berate you wasn't the worst thing and it didn't bother you (which I don't see how it wouldn't), then it wouldn't be quite as bad. But it does, and that's what seems to bother you the most. So, what else could have happened differently so that you didn't have to experience the worst case scenario?
Having the police haul her off to jail for the night seems like a less torturous scenario. Sleeping in your truck, or locking yourself in the bedroom sounds less torturous. Leaving to stay in a hotel or with a friend might have been less. But she got away with giving you the worst again. And she continues to do so. She's probably not going to change her behavior, but you can change yours. Even just a little change, so that you aren't in her direct line of fire, seems better. How about calling her ex, who she's chummy with, and having him come pick her up.
I feel for you. So she was in the house raging, and you were in the house with her on Sunday. That's the worst thing for you, right? You really can't stand her berating you and acting crazy. If that's the worst thing for you, then do something different. As everyone here says, that doesn't mean you have to divorce her necessarily. But do something different so that you have an alternative to the very worst thing, which is what you experienced Sunday. I mean, if listening to her berate you wasn't the worst thing and it didn't bother you (which I don't see how it wouldn't), then it wouldn't be quite as bad. But it does, and that's what seems to bother you the most. So, what else could have happened differently so that you didn't have to experience the worst case scenario?
Having the police haul her off to jail for the night seems like a less torturous scenario. Sleeping in your truck, or locking yourself in the bedroom sounds less torturous. Leaving to stay in a hotel or with a friend might have been less. But she got away with giving you the worst again. And she continues to do so. She's probably not going to change her behavior, but you can change yours. Even just a little change, so that you aren't in her direct line of fire, seems better. How about calling her ex, who she's chummy with, and having him come pick her up.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 596
She knows this too Redd. She knows it. And she's counting on it to keep you in line, at a distance, and on the receiving end.
For many years, if I fought with my AH, he could wind up pulling out the big guns (meaning anger) and shut me up when he wanted. He'd call my side "nagging". Honestly, in retrospect I was pleading with him to stop some of the insanity associated with dry drunk thinking. He viewed it as nagging. When he'd had enough, he'd yell at me and say hurtful stuff. I knew when to shut up out of FEAR. Fear of the unknown.
About a year ago, the misery of being on the receiving end of his attempts to shut me up or control me started to weigh more than the fear of the unknown and I started having less fear. I mean, fear of what? Being alone? Away from the drinking and the insanity? Could that be as terrible as being treated like total crap? Well, I wasn't sure, but I was beginning to think less about trying to maintain my marriage and more about making changes.
More than once, we went through the same scenario. We'd enter into an argument, he'd shut me out. When he had enough, he unloaded on me. And a few times, I unloaded back bigger, stronger, louder. My fear had me convinced that he'd walk. At that point, so be it. Instead, he got really quiet. He cried, HE was scared. And I felt relieved!!!!! We haven't had too many arguments since then. I'm not saying I'm offering you professional advice. I'm just saying what worked for me and allowed me to regain my own confidence. I do have choices when my AH decides to verbally mow me down and makes threats. I can leave, I can hide or I can stand up for myself and stop internalizing.
Anyway, upon rereading my post, it sounds completely dysfunctional. Perhaps it is. But I just can't imagine your wife continuing on her raving rant against you if you stand up to her hard. Don't be afraid. She knows you are and she's using it against you to control you. If you're not going to get out, just figure something else out in the meantime. Get out, go somewhere or get in her face, be loud and tell her under no uncertain terms that you aren't going to listen to another word out of her mouth. That's just my two cents. I've been scared, I've lived in fear. None of my fears amounted to much in the end. I wish I had stood up to him a long time ago.
For many years, if I fought with my AH, he could wind up pulling out the big guns (meaning anger) and shut me up when he wanted. He'd call my side "nagging". Honestly, in retrospect I was pleading with him to stop some of the insanity associated with dry drunk thinking. He viewed it as nagging. When he'd had enough, he'd yell at me and say hurtful stuff. I knew when to shut up out of FEAR. Fear of the unknown.
About a year ago, the misery of being on the receiving end of his attempts to shut me up or control me started to weigh more than the fear of the unknown and I started having less fear. I mean, fear of what? Being alone? Away from the drinking and the insanity? Could that be as terrible as being treated like total crap? Well, I wasn't sure, but I was beginning to think less about trying to maintain my marriage and more about making changes.
More than once, we went through the same scenario. We'd enter into an argument, he'd shut me out. When he had enough, he unloaded on me. And a few times, I unloaded back bigger, stronger, louder. My fear had me convinced that he'd walk. At that point, so be it. Instead, he got really quiet. He cried, HE was scared. And I felt relieved!!!!! We haven't had too many arguments since then. I'm not saying I'm offering you professional advice. I'm just saying what worked for me and allowed me to regain my own confidence. I do have choices when my AH decides to verbally mow me down and makes threats. I can leave, I can hide or I can stand up for myself and stop internalizing.
Anyway, upon rereading my post, it sounds completely dysfunctional. Perhaps it is. But I just can't imagine your wife continuing on her raving rant against you if you stand up to her hard. Don't be afraid. She knows you are and she's using it against you to control you. If you're not going to get out, just figure something else out in the meantime. Get out, go somewhere or get in her face, be loud and tell her under no uncertain terms that you aren't going to listen to another word out of her mouth. That's just my two cents. I've been scared, I've lived in fear. None of my fears amounted to much in the end. I wish I had stood up to him a long time ago.
Whenever I read your posts, the thing that I get from them is that your happiness and peace totally depend on her and what she does.
There is a way to start regaining your own life and sanity while you work through what you want to do about your marriage. It's called detachment. Living your own life, regardless of what she does or doesn't do. Allowing her the dignity to make her own choices, and giving yourself the freedom to make your own, too.
I, also, tried getting in my AH's face, and while it made me feel better for a little while, and even shut him up for a little while, the only thing that really started to restore my sanity was detachment. I started to get a life of my own and I started to feel better.
L
There is a way to start regaining your own life and sanity while you work through what you want to do about your marriage. It's called detachment. Living your own life, regardless of what she does or doesn't do. Allowing her the dignity to make her own choices, and giving yourself the freedom to make your own, too.
I, also, tried getting in my AH's face, and while it made me feel better for a little while, and even shut him up for a little while, the only thing that really started to restore my sanity was detachment. I started to get a life of my own and I started to feel better.
L
Redd speaking from the alcoholics side of the fence, as long as you tolerate me or my behaviour in any manner I am in charge, I have you right where I want you, I behave a few days lulling you into the feeling of "Maybe this time?" The hook is now set once again, you have it hook line and sinker!!!! I am okay, I still have a roof over my head and a place to live, I do what I want with no real consequences.
Save your self Redd, you can not save her, only she can do that and as long as you keep biting the hook she knows she can do what she wants.
If you want to help her.......... stop helping her.
Save your self Redd, you can not save her, only she can do that and as long as you keep biting the hook she knows she can do what she wants.
If you want to help her.......... stop helping her.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 596
Whenever I read your posts, the thing that I get from them is that your happiness and peace totally depend on her and what she does.
There is a way to start regaining your own life and sanity while you work through what you want to do about your marriage. It's called detachment. Living your own life, regardless of what she does or doesn't do. Allowing her the dignity to make her own choices, and giving yourself the freedom to make your own, too.
I, also, tried getting in my AH's face, and while it made me feel better for a little while, and even shut him up for a little while, the only thing that really started to restore my sanity was detachment. I started to get a life of my own and I started to feel better.
L
There is a way to start regaining your own life and sanity while you work through what you want to do about your marriage. It's called detachment. Living your own life, regardless of what she does or doesn't do. Allowing her the dignity to make her own choices, and giving yourself the freedom to make your own, too.
I, also, tried getting in my AH's face, and while it made me feel better for a little while, and even shut him up for a little while, the only thing that really started to restore my sanity was detachment. I started to get a life of my own and I started to feel better.
L
Detaching is more on a mental/emotional level. It means going about your life without the gut ache. Doing what you want/need to do regardless of him. Reclaiming your own very precious individual life, and leaving him to his. And it can take awhile to get there. Especially if the habit has been to engage/interact with him.
L
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 184
Redd... I am always reminding myself that if "nothing changes, then nothing changes." I stopped engaging, I didn't yell, I didn't react. I went along living my life and taking care of the house, the kids and myself. When I changed my reaction...his actions started changing. I can't tell you the last time he raised his voice or as respekting me put it...launched any "driveby taunts or criticisms". He doesn't quack nearly as much and there is a new quietness in the house. Even the boys (14 & 16) stopped yelling to be heard...there seems to be more talking on our parts and alot less yelling. I told him I wouldn't have any kind of conversation with him if he had alcohol in his system...needless to say, we haven't talked much since then. This isn't the ideal answer, but it stopped the constant drama and rants every evening.
I started to change my behavior and other things began to change as a result. I am no where near an expert on this subject, but changing is one of the tools that is working for me.
I started to change my behavior and other things began to change as a result. I am no where near an expert on this subject, but changing is one of the tools that is working for me.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 596
I had people tell me a long time ago that I was talking to the bottle. I denied it. I thought they meant I was to avoid talking to him when he was actively drinking, which can often be once a month or so. Now I understand. When he's actively drinking, he's "out" (to coin his own phrase which they use in his AA group), or he's off the wagon. When he's actively drinking, his brain is infused with stinking thinking. When he's actively seeking sobriety, his every day thinking is totally different.
Everything he says while he's actively drinking is quacking. Unfortunately, he sometimes makes decisions when he's in this state, that effect us negatively. In the past, I argued to sway his mind. Now I make my decision and let him quack away.
Drunk thinking is total manipulation. Down to me being gone to run some errands and him calling me on my cell to see how my errands are progressing (i.e., "how much time do I have left before she gets back home", "how much more can I guzzle before she walks through the door"), to me watching tv in the bedroom and him walking in, pretending to be interested in what I'm watching (i.e., "is she asleep yet so I can drink without her walking into the living room and catching me"). Almost everything he says, good or bad, when he's active, revolves around his drinking in one way or the other. Like, if I have plans for an evening, he'll ask out of "genuine interest" what time I'll be back, as if he wants to know in case I run into trouble, what time to be worried. Basically, that means he wants to know what time to expect me so that he can run and jump into the bed and shut the lights off.
When he's sober, he's honest. He isn't always asking me questions as to what I'm doing, but rather noticing things about ME that ordinarily never occur to him. Like I smell good, or I look good, or I said something funny. Things that probably happen to ordinary couples, just that rarely occur between us.
Everything he says while he's actively drinking is quacking. Unfortunately, he sometimes makes decisions when he's in this state, that effect us negatively. In the past, I argued to sway his mind. Now I make my decision and let him quack away.
Drunk thinking is total manipulation. Down to me being gone to run some errands and him calling me on my cell to see how my errands are progressing (i.e., "how much time do I have left before she gets back home", "how much more can I guzzle before she walks through the door"), to me watching tv in the bedroom and him walking in, pretending to be interested in what I'm watching (i.e., "is she asleep yet so I can drink without her walking into the living room and catching me"). Almost everything he says, good or bad, when he's active, revolves around his drinking in one way or the other. Like, if I have plans for an evening, he'll ask out of "genuine interest" what time I'll be back, as if he wants to know in case I run into trouble, what time to be worried. Basically, that means he wants to know what time to expect me so that he can run and jump into the bed and shut the lights off.
When he's sober, he's honest. He isn't always asking me questions as to what I'm doing, but rather noticing things about ME that ordinarily never occur to him. Like I smell good, or I look good, or I said something funny. Things that probably happen to ordinary couples, just that rarely occur between us.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Great Lake Country
Posts: 333
My fear is this: My AW is a proactive abuser. She goes the extra mile to make life hurtful and wearing. The other issue is that she does this even while "sober".
I have to clean up after the messes that get made, either physical or emotional/mental.
I have to clean up after the messes that get made, either physical or emotional/mental.
She can only make your life hurtful and wearing if you allow it.
You don't have to do anything. You choose to.
L
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 596
2. You don't actually have to clean up the messes.
What are you so afraid of? Have you tried quantifying what that really is? What are your fears? That she'll kill you in your sleep? That she'll actually physically harm you? That she'll scream louder than she's screamed at you before? That she'll walk out and into the arms of one of her previous husbands? That she'll race to the bank and clean out your accounts?
To date, I don't read anything that you are afraid of, that doesn't equate to manipulation on her part, and something many people here have feared before. It's a game, and you're a player. She's counting on that.
My mom has had issues with rage for many years. And when she'd rage, everybody would shake in fear, including her ex-husband (my father) and her current husband. Fortunately, she got counseling, and was able to change her behavior for many years. She had peace and others did also. Last week, she got ticked at her husband and called me. I hadn't heard her voice in a rage like that in years. We didn't talk for long and she called me back after a short while. She had hung up with me and marched into where he was sitting, got in his face and through clenched teeth began to unload a batch of poison all over him. Oddly enough, he gave it back for once. Told her he hated her when she was like that and wanted a divorce. She was calling me from her car, petrified because he did something he had never done before. She was so sorry for her actions, and scared to death to go home. When she did, she apologized for her actions immensely.
When she went in to unload on him (for something pretty petty), she assumed he'd do what he normally does, and sit there and take it. For once, he didn't. Yes, he forgave her. But I bet she doesn't do that again anytime soon.
There's power in fear. He had fear and she knew it. I had fear and my AH knew it. If you're used to taking her abuse out of fear, your AW knows it. If you want it to change, you're going to have to change something, because otherwise, the dynamics of how your relationship works is just alllll too convenient for her.
You feel miserable when she drinks.
I know how that goes.
You sound as though you are working towards owning your own feelings (i.e. "I get upset when this situation occurs", not "She makes me upset") and detaching from her behavior. This is not an easy or instant task.
It is so hard to keep a cool head when someone is berating me.
Every part of me wants to lash out, to defend, or to cry.
I do not enjoy these feelings, but I can't make anyone stop screaming at me.
I can leave the room, the house, or the state (depending on how loud they're screaming ).
I'm not talking about LEAVING your wife. I'm not talking divorce. I'm not talking legal separation. Those are big decisions - you don't have to make the right now.
Just go to the bookstore, coffee shop, arcade, friend's house, etc...
You have power here. Decide when you want to be around her and when you don't.
Good luck.
-TC
I know how that goes.
You sound as though you are working towards owning your own feelings (i.e. "I get upset when this situation occurs", not "She makes me upset") and detaching from her behavior. This is not an easy or instant task.
It is so hard to keep a cool head when someone is berating me.
Every part of me wants to lash out, to defend, or to cry.
I do not enjoy these feelings, but I can't make anyone stop screaming at me.
I can leave the room, the house, or the state (depending on how loud they're screaming ).
I'm not talking about LEAVING your wife. I'm not talking divorce. I'm not talking legal separation. Those are big decisions - you don't have to make the right now.
Just go to the bookstore, coffee shop, arcade, friend's house, etc...
You have power here. Decide when you want to be around her and when you don't.
Good luck.
-TC
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Great Lake Country
Posts: 333
I'm stuck in a quandry. Like I've said in previous posts, I believe she has a co-morbid personality disorder to go with her drinking.
The problem with becomes how do I handle both things at once. In BPD, you need to give structure, calmness,acceptance, and validation, then assert and shift.
This becomes very difficult to do when someone is also drunk....
Redd
The problem with becomes how do I handle both things at once. In BPD, you need to give structure, calmness,acceptance, and validation, then assert and shift.
This becomes very difficult to do when someone is also drunk....
Redd
It's not your job to treat her. You are her husband, not her psychologist. Has she even been diagnosed by anyone but you? Does she want help with her problems? Has she taken any action to get it?
It is your job to take care of you. What are you doing to that end?
L
It is your job to take care of you. What are you doing to that end?
L
I'm stuck in a quandry. Like I've said in previous posts, I believe she has a co-morbid personality disorder to go with her drinking.
The problem with becomes how do I handle both things at once. In BPD, you need to give structure, calmness,acceptance, and validation, then assert and shift.
This becomes very difficult to do when someone is also drunk....
Redd
The problem with becomes how do I handle both things at once. In BPD, you need to give structure, calmness,acceptance, and validation, then assert and shift.
This becomes very difficult to do when someone is also drunk....
Redd
Her illness and problem personality has nothing to do with you.
The sooner we stop trying so hard to be all things for the untreated alcoholic in our lives, who very frequently has a long list of secondary diagnosis', the healthier we both might become.
Hi Redd- I can see you're struggling.
I read through this thread and still don't understand what you're afraid of. What is BPD? Bipolar disorder? I also see that you seem to be very stuck on what your AW is doing/not doing and what her diagnosis might be. It's hard to get just what it is that has you immobilized in an abusive situation, but just know no one is rushing you to do anything drastic. You can do what you need to do in your own time. However, something, anything on your part to change the dynamic can start to make good things happen for you.
I had no idea how frightened I really was of my STBXAH, and he never laid a hand on me. My situation was extremely difficult to deal with, though. I lived every moment wondering when the other shoe was going to drop. I am learning how to relax finally. I just discovered I am divorcing a man I was afraid of- and I still have fear- don't get me wrong. But it's very different. My fear is all something I can handle, because I have the power to figure it out. I no longer am held to my STBXAH's whims, moods, chaos. I don't have to wait for him to "get it" or take care of my needs. I can take care of my own. I'm sad that I couldn't do that WITH him, but I had to leave, and to do that I had to finally decide I was worth more. Life is more peaceful now, and I am grateful. Take care of yourself Redd. Life is too short to live in fear.
I read through this thread and still don't understand what you're afraid of. What is BPD? Bipolar disorder? I also see that you seem to be very stuck on what your AW is doing/not doing and what her diagnosis might be. It's hard to get just what it is that has you immobilized in an abusive situation, but just know no one is rushing you to do anything drastic. You can do what you need to do in your own time. However, something, anything on your part to change the dynamic can start to make good things happen for you.
I had no idea how frightened I really was of my STBXAH, and he never laid a hand on me. My situation was extremely difficult to deal with, though. I lived every moment wondering when the other shoe was going to drop. I am learning how to relax finally. I just discovered I am divorcing a man I was afraid of- and I still have fear- don't get me wrong. But it's very different. My fear is all something I can handle, because I have the power to figure it out. I no longer am held to my STBXAH's whims, moods, chaos. I don't have to wait for him to "get it" or take care of my needs. I can take care of my own. I'm sad that I couldn't do that WITH him, but I had to leave, and to do that I had to finally decide I was worth more. Life is more peaceful now, and I am grateful. Take care of yourself Redd. Life is too short to live in fear.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)