So, let me just put it out there: Giving the A in your life a chance
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 2,060
My candid experience as both a codependant and and alcoholic in recovery is this:
The alcoholic needs support, yes. That's what AA is for. And a sponsor. And men's groups.
Its a profound error of codependant thought to assume we are THAT important as to be the essential ingredient in a person's successful recovery, or that we are ever in a position to "give another chance" to an active alcoholic. To do so is overcontrolling, arrogant and wrong because it derails the focus from our own responsibility to recover onto somebody else's journey.
As Jazzman said, "getting" sober is easy. Staying and Living sober are the true tests, and will require monumental and dynamic changes in your relationships which are only possible after each party gets clear and sober individually.
Sounds like your husband has paused the drinking for 6 days, and knows a little bit about working the situation to get and keep what he wants. Nothing inherently wrong there, except that this should not be misconstrued as "sobriety" or even as a "sincere attempt at sobriety". (Another person's sincerity is none of my business. MY own sincerity is.)
Whatever gets him to quit drinking and to the journey of recovery is good. But, you need to know that, since alcoholism is a soul sickness, as well as a physical and mental illness, the medicine to recover from it must also include the healing and growth of the soul, body and mind.
My suggestion to you is to step back. Way back. Take your hands and sights off of his sobriety and give both of yourselves personal time (lots) and space in which to heal. If his attempts at getting sober are sincere, and are his absolute number1 priority, this will still be the case in a year from now, and he will thank you for your best gift of genuine support: by letting go and letting his higher power work things out.
The alcoholic needs support, yes. That's what AA is for. And a sponsor. And men's groups.
Its a profound error of codependant thought to assume we are THAT important as to be the essential ingredient in a person's successful recovery, or that we are ever in a position to "give another chance" to an active alcoholic. To do so is overcontrolling, arrogant and wrong because it derails the focus from our own responsibility to recover onto somebody else's journey.
As Jazzman said, "getting" sober is easy. Staying and Living sober are the true tests, and will require monumental and dynamic changes in your relationships which are only possible after each party gets clear and sober individually.
Sounds like your husband has paused the drinking for 6 days, and knows a little bit about working the situation to get and keep what he wants. Nothing inherently wrong there, except that this should not be misconstrued as "sobriety" or even as a "sincere attempt at sobriety". (Another person's sincerity is none of my business. MY own sincerity is.)
Whatever gets him to quit drinking and to the journey of recovery is good. But, you need to know that, since alcoholism is a soul sickness, as well as a physical and mental illness, the medicine to recover from it must also include the healing and growth of the soul, body and mind.
My suggestion to you is to step back. Way back. Take your hands and sights off of his sobriety and give both of yourselves personal time (lots) and space in which to heal. If his attempts at getting sober are sincere, and are his absolute number1 priority, this will still be the case in a year from now, and he will thank you for your best gift of genuine support: by letting go and letting his higher power work things out.
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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Originally Posted by miss communicat 
The alcoholic needs support, yes. That's what AA is for. And a sponsor. And men's groups.
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Originally Posted by anvilhead
is support a good thing? hell yes. but that support should be like someone standing along the roadside of a 10k marathon, clapping, holding out a water bottle.....the person in the track shoes still has to run every step of the race. and it is still THEIR RACE to run.....they don't give out little trophies for best clapper, it's not a shared victory.
Black and Yellow
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,359
Originally Posted by anvilhead
but that support should be like someone standing along the roadside of a 10k marathon, clapping, holding out a water bottle.....the person in the track shoes still has to run every step of the race. and it is still THEIR RACE to run.....they don't give out little trophies for best clapper, it's not a shared victory.
Perfect!
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Stephanie, I go back and read this pretty often. It's a sobering (no pun intended) way for me to be honest with myself about my motives before I found a solid home in recovery.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ddicts-do.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ddicts-do.html
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 129
Do you know when I know that It was really bad, I was scared to take that break, I was scared that if I wasnt there, kinda like if the cats away the mice will play. I would worry about his actions. If I am not there he will fall, If I am not there, blaaaaaaa blaaaaa.
It was such a relief to me to give that to back to him and not worry anymore. I can now go and not worry for him and what he will or will not do, because whether I am here or I am gone if he is going to fall he will fall. Meanwhile I was stopping myself from taking care of me.
It was such a relief to me to give that to back to him and not worry anymore. I can now go and not worry for him and what he will or will not do, because whether I am here or I am gone if he is going to fall he will fall. Meanwhile I was stopping myself from taking care of me.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
I can't stop reading this. It's full of great bits and I hope it doesn't go ignored.
Originally Posted by miss communicat
My candid experience as both a codependant and and alcoholic in recovery is this:
The alcoholic needs support, yes. That's what AA is for. And a sponsor. And men's groups.
Its a profound error of codependant thought to assume we are THAT important as to be the essential ingredient in a person's successful recovery, or that we are ever in a position to "give another chance" to an active alcoholic. To do so is overcontrolling, arrogant and wrong because it derails the focus from our own responsibility to recover onto somebody else's journey.
As Jazzman said, "getting" sober is easy. Staying and Living sober are the true tests, and will require monumental and dynamic changes in your relationships which are only possible after each party gets clear and sober individually.
Sounds like your husband has paused the drinking for 6 days, and knows a little bit about working the situation to get and keep what he wants. Nothing inherently wrong there, except that this should not be misconstrued as "sobriety" or even as a "sincere attempt at sobriety". (Another person's sincerity is none of my business. MY own sincerity is.)
Whatever gets him to quit drinking and to the journey of recovery is good. But, you need to know that, since alcoholism is a soul sickness, as well as a physical and mental illness, the medicine to recover from it must also include the healing and growth of the soul, body and mind.
My suggestion to you is to step back. Way back. Take your hands and sights off of his sobriety and give both of yourselves personal time (lots) and space in which to heal. If his attempts at getting sober are sincere, and are his absolute number1 priority, this will still be the case in a year from now, and he will thank you for your best gift of genuine support: by letting go and letting his higher power work things out.
The alcoholic needs support, yes. That's what AA is for. And a sponsor. And men's groups.
Its a profound error of codependant thought to assume we are THAT important as to be the essential ingredient in a person's successful recovery, or that we are ever in a position to "give another chance" to an active alcoholic. To do so is overcontrolling, arrogant and wrong because it derails the focus from our own responsibility to recover onto somebody else's journey.
As Jazzman said, "getting" sober is easy. Staying and Living sober are the true tests, and will require monumental and dynamic changes in your relationships which are only possible after each party gets clear and sober individually.
Sounds like your husband has paused the drinking for 6 days, and knows a little bit about working the situation to get and keep what he wants. Nothing inherently wrong there, except that this should not be misconstrued as "sobriety" or even as a "sincere attempt at sobriety". (Another person's sincerity is none of my business. MY own sincerity is.)
Whatever gets him to quit drinking and to the journey of recovery is good. But, you need to know that, since alcoholism is a soul sickness, as well as a physical and mental illness, the medicine to recover from it must also include the healing and growth of the soul, body and mind.
My suggestion to you is to step back. Way back. Take your hands and sights off of his sobriety and give both of yourselves personal time (lots) and space in which to heal. If his attempts at getting sober are sincere, and are his absolute number1 priority, this will still be the case in a year from now, and he will thank you for your best gift of genuine support: by letting go and letting his higher power work things out.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
Strongerwoman--
Thanks for starting this thread!
Interesting stuff.
I'll just add these 2 cents: I learned in my recovery to keep my cards very close to my chest. What I mean by that is the old saying One Day at a Time has endured for a reason.
We can give support endlessly. I have always been a postive supporter of every attempt at sobriety my brothers have made. Recently my older brother called and announced his "sobriety was priceless." He hasn't made an attempt at sobriety in a long time, and the last time we spoke, a month before, I ended the call because he was wasted.
I panicked - I thought I had to DO or SAY something in response. I went right into codie relapse!! I posted here and got the responses I needed to hear.
HIS recovery is his own. When I spoke to him again I said how happy I was to hear him say that his sobriety was priceless. I asked him how he was doing? He told me some really great stuff. I told him I loved him. I am proud of him.
I hung up the phone and cried, because - well that's what this disease does to us - just wrings us out - but I realized - nothing had changed. I didn't need to DO anything differently. I didn't need to change any of my behavior. He's got 30 days now. And that's a gift and I'm sure has been an enormous effort for him. But it doesn't mean my program goes out the window. I cannot just lay my cards down because I HOPE this time it is forever. I don't need to start lending him money, or backing down on the things he owes me. I'm not going to suddenly invite him down to the house to be around his nephews.
TIME and behavior will tell me all I need to know. I cannot jump the gun, I have to trust the process and let some time pass...otherwise I'm being foolish with my own serenity and mental health.
So, totally, be supportive in all the non-enabling ways. I am always sending my brothers messages of love. I will always say Hurrah! when they get some sobriety under their belts. But as precious and personal as their sobriety is, so is my serenity. It's mine. No one can steal it. Unless I LET THEM!!!
Get a little more recovery time under YOUR belt. Your behavior does not need to change. You can say Good For You! to your husband, and Way to Go! But you seem to be confusing support with going back to the same old dynamic. Honestly, nothing really changes in the number of weeks you've been posting here.
I learned a lot about recovery when my father finally sobered up. I watched , and I learned. When he recovered and got sober, we were all very, very supportive. But we were naturally wary. Yet each month, and then each year of his recovery allowed us all to start trusting him again. We NEVER didn't support him. But he had to ACTUALLY change before any of us could really let him into our worlds again.
And he did change.
And it was great with him.
But it took the time that it took.
Recovery is a slow process.
Protect yourself.
SUPPORT YOURSELF!!!
Peace,
B.
Thanks for starting this thread!
Interesting stuff.
I'll just add these 2 cents: I learned in my recovery to keep my cards very close to my chest. What I mean by that is the old saying One Day at a Time has endured for a reason.
We can give support endlessly. I have always been a postive supporter of every attempt at sobriety my brothers have made. Recently my older brother called and announced his "sobriety was priceless." He hasn't made an attempt at sobriety in a long time, and the last time we spoke, a month before, I ended the call because he was wasted.
I panicked - I thought I had to DO or SAY something in response. I went right into codie relapse!! I posted here and got the responses I needed to hear.
HIS recovery is his own. When I spoke to him again I said how happy I was to hear him say that his sobriety was priceless. I asked him how he was doing? He told me some really great stuff. I told him I loved him. I am proud of him.
I hung up the phone and cried, because - well that's what this disease does to us - just wrings us out - but I realized - nothing had changed. I didn't need to DO anything differently. I didn't need to change any of my behavior. He's got 30 days now. And that's a gift and I'm sure has been an enormous effort for him. But it doesn't mean my program goes out the window. I cannot just lay my cards down because I HOPE this time it is forever. I don't need to start lending him money, or backing down on the things he owes me. I'm not going to suddenly invite him down to the house to be around his nephews.
TIME and behavior will tell me all I need to know. I cannot jump the gun, I have to trust the process and let some time pass...otherwise I'm being foolish with my own serenity and mental health.
So, totally, be supportive in all the non-enabling ways. I am always sending my brothers messages of love. I will always say Hurrah! when they get some sobriety under their belts. But as precious and personal as their sobriety is, so is my serenity. It's mine. No one can steal it. Unless I LET THEM!!!
Get a little more recovery time under YOUR belt. Your behavior does not need to change. You can say Good For You! to your husband, and Way to Go! But you seem to be confusing support with going back to the same old dynamic. Honestly, nothing really changes in the number of weeks you've been posting here.
I learned a lot about recovery when my father finally sobered up. I watched , and I learned. When he recovered and got sober, we were all very, very supportive. But we were naturally wary. Yet each month, and then each year of his recovery allowed us all to start trusting him again. We NEVER didn't support him. But he had to ACTUALLY change before any of us could really let him into our worlds again.
And he did change.
And it was great with him.
But it took the time that it took.
Recovery is a slow process.
Protect yourself.
SUPPORT YOURSELF!!!
Peace,
B.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 596
I don't know why you're in a rush to determine if he's serious or not. Can you try just maintaining what you're currently doing? Do you have to move back in right this moment?
6 days really isn't long. My AH hasn't had a drink in 10 days. It means zero, nada, nothing. He's going to his class reunion this weekend and claims he's going to stay sober. Yeah, right. His deal. But 6 days really doesn't prove anything to me. Now if my AH had, say, 2 months, I'd think he might be serious.
But I'd never make or change a decision based on 6 days. I might slow the process down a tad out of curiosity and hope, but would not make a major change in my plans for that.
As for everyone saying that the user has to be the one to want it. That's just true. I used to smoke. I'd still really like to smoke. My friends tell me that I can stop but they can't, and they wish they could be like me and just quit. Whatever. I don't think it was easier for me than it would be for them. Lots of times it sucks!! Today, I wanted one in a bad way. But I never crave them like I did the first 3 weeks or so, so the cravings do go away. I quit because a close friend died of lung cancer at the age of 40 and I have two young kids. I don't have the luxury of smoking. And I hate to sound like a condemning witch, but I don't believe my AH has the luxury of drinking either. He says he'd die for our kids........ but he won't live for them??
Anyway, back to the issue at hand. Hopefully your AH is serious. I know mine has made all sorts of promises. When I quit smoking, it wasn't because my AH nagged me or said I smelled like smoke, or didn't want to kiss me because I smelled like an ashtray, or whatever. It was never for him. It was an overwhelming desire to stay alive for my kids as long as I can.
6 days really isn't long. My AH hasn't had a drink in 10 days. It means zero, nada, nothing. He's going to his class reunion this weekend and claims he's going to stay sober. Yeah, right. His deal. But 6 days really doesn't prove anything to me. Now if my AH had, say, 2 months, I'd think he might be serious.
But I'd never make or change a decision based on 6 days. I might slow the process down a tad out of curiosity and hope, but would not make a major change in my plans for that.
As for everyone saying that the user has to be the one to want it. That's just true. I used to smoke. I'd still really like to smoke. My friends tell me that I can stop but they can't, and they wish they could be like me and just quit. Whatever. I don't think it was easier for me than it would be for them. Lots of times it sucks!! Today, I wanted one in a bad way. But I never crave them like I did the first 3 weeks or so, so the cravings do go away. I quit because a close friend died of lung cancer at the age of 40 and I have two young kids. I don't have the luxury of smoking. And I hate to sound like a condemning witch, but I don't believe my AH has the luxury of drinking either. He says he'd die for our kids........ but he won't live for them??
Anyway, back to the issue at hand. Hopefully your AH is serious. I know mine has made all sorts of promises. When I quit smoking, it wasn't because my AH nagged me or said I smelled like smoke, or didn't want to kiss me because I smelled like an ashtray, or whatever. It was never for him. It was an overwhelming desire to stay alive for my kids as long as I can.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 103
Strongerwoman...There are others here with so much insight and experience with recovery. Listen. Open up and listen. I know its hard not to hear what you really want to hear. It is hard to love and support an addict, especially when it is your husband. He needs his higher power and others going through recovery to love and support him. He has to run that race for himself. I feel as though I am letting him down or abandoning him. I am also a nurse. We are the biggest codependents there are! My counselor told me that the first time I introduced myself! That says alot....I will keep you in my prayers. Keep posting and listening.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: London
Posts: 219
My thoughts on this are, don't pressure him to go to meetings or ask when the next one is. Speak to him about his progress only when he instgates it. Play the "I'm doing it this way cause I don't want to stress you out over something so important" card and you'll have your answer pretty quickly.
If he's doing it for the right reasons and is commited his actions will speak far louder than any words
If he's doing it for the right reasons and is commited his actions will speak far louder than any words
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
For the recovering A's here: did the love and support of a loved one make a difference to your recovery? I'm not talking about enabling - but knowing that someone was rooting for you, someone was in your corner, someone who loved and cared about you was there for support.
NO, it scared the chit out of me and I ran, I could not cope with it, in my mind I still wasn't good enough and only my new AA folks really understood how screwed up I was.
And I can tell you that many I have sponsored have felt the same way through their first year or some even longer of recovery.
It was too MUCH PRESSURE, imagined or real, just TOO MUCH PRESSURE.
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 2,060
Originally Posted by laurie6781
Honest Answer:
NO, it scared the chit out of me and I ran, I could not cope with it, in my mind I still wasn't good enough and only my new AA folks really understood how screwed up I was.
And I can tell you that many I have sponsored have felt the same way through their first year or some even longer of recovery.
It was too MUCH PRESSURE, imagined or real, just TOO MUCH PRESSURE.
Love and hugs,
NO, it scared the chit out of me and I ran, I could not cope with it, in my mind I still wasn't good enough and only my new AA folks really understood how screwed up I was.
And I can tell you that many I have sponsored have felt the same way through their first year or some even longer of recovery.
It was too MUCH PRESSURE, imagined or real, just TOO MUCH PRESSURE.
Love and hugs,
ditto that
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by strongerwoman
Well, thats not really true.
He hasn't drank/drugged in 6 days, threw out his drug paraphenilia, has attended our church's faith based recovery service, and men's substance abuse group, has attended 2 AA meetings, has called two older men for support that he knows -one has 37 years sober, the other 17 years sober, is in the process of getting himself into an outpatient program (insurance issues, run around, waiting to hear back from them) has made a doctor appointment to discuss medications that may help.
All of this in 6 days time. And he has been working from 7am til at least 9pm his regular job and two side jobs he's trying to complete to pay MY bills.
He hasn't drank/drugged in 6 days, threw out his drug paraphenilia, has attended our church's faith based recovery service, and men's substance abuse group, has attended 2 AA meetings, has called two older men for support that he knows -one has 37 years sober, the other 17 years sober, is in the process of getting himself into an outpatient program (insurance issues, run around, waiting to hear back from them) has made a doctor appointment to discuss medications that may help.
All of this in 6 days time. And he has been working from 7am til at least 9pm his regular job and two side jobs he's trying to complete to pay MY bills.
I KNOW exactly how you are feeling right now. If my STBXAH was doing this stuff, I would WANT to believe it. I have to agree with everyone else though that this is about HIS recovery. IMO, you don't need to know anything about it. His ACTIONS and BEHAVIORS towards you should SHOW you that he is active in his recovery...not just a running list of the things he's attending in an effort to recover. Does that make sense? As someone who lived with a dry drunk for a couple of months, even though my A was going to AA and reading books and stopped drinking, it was all just a ploy to get me off his back. Not a REAL recovery.
I do not think it is wrong to give the A in your life a chance, but the A in my life would certainly have to give me a chance (aka a LONG time) to get used to the idea before I'd actually believe it was real.
Can't make sense out of crazy.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the Bluegrass, Baby!
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by Astro
Stephanie, I go back and read this pretty often. It's a sobering (no pun intended) way for me to be honest with myself about my motives before I found a solid home in recovery.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ddicts-do.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ddicts-do.html
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
Thanks, I've had this on my fridge and taped to my nightstand for about 2 months now, I read it all the time.
I say that because of this:
He hasn't drank/drugged in 6 days, threw out his drug paraphenilia, has attended our church's faith based recovery service, and men's substance abuse group, has attended 2 AA meetings, has called two older men for support that he knows -one has 37 years sober, the other 17 years sober, is in the process of getting himself into an outpatient program (insurance issues, run around, waiting to hear back from them) has made a doctor appointment to discuss medications that may help.
All of this in 6 days time. And he has been working from 7am til at least 9pm his regular job and two side jobs he's trying to complete to pay MY bills.
All of this in 6 days time. And he has been working from 7am til at least 9pm his regular job and two side jobs he's trying to complete to pay MY bills.
I would suggest that whatever he "says" he is doing your response be "that's nice" and change the subject.
Please put your eyes TOTALLY ON YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN. He will do what he will do in HP's time. Your 'Hope' and 'Faith' could be better spent on you and the children that y'all get a serene and peaceful life, and that is what you work toward. He may come around, he may not. Your peace and serenity is NOT DEPENDENT ON HIM.
J M H O
Love and bunches of hugs,
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 633
I don't have much to add except 6 days is not much time at all to be sober. Ask yourself, if he is doing this for himself or just to get you back with him? If you told him tomorrow that if you would never consider reconciling would he stay sober? Or would he go back to drinking, drugging, other women and leaving your child alone to get high?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Originally Posted by laurie6781
Honest Answer:
NO, it scared the chit out of me and I ran, I could not cope with it, in my mind I still wasn't good enough and only my new AA folks really understood how screwed up I was.
And I can tell you that many I have sponsored have felt the same way through their first year or some even longer of recovery.
It was too MUCH PRESSURE, imagined or real, just TOO MUCH PRESSURE.
Love and hugs,
NO, it scared the chit out of me and I ran, I could not cope with it, in my mind I still wasn't good enough and only my new AA folks really understood how screwed up I was.
And I can tell you that many I have sponsored have felt the same way through their first year or some even longer of recovery.
It was too MUCH PRESSURE, imagined or real, just TOO MUCH PRESSURE.
Love and hugs,
Mike
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